It's year 1918 and allied powers won the war and you are in charge of redrawing the borders. Your goals are to achieve lasting peace and prevent the horrors of war ever happening in Europe again.
What do you do?
Annex Germany and Poland
whoever wants the rest can have it
>>251220
Chop Germany up into a multitude of smaller states the way you're doing with Austria-Hungary. Breaking it back down to the old HRE electors and Austria (was Austria an elector? Can't remember) and bolster them with financial aid directly to their ruling elite as long as they stay separate.
>>251220
Destroy Germany.
>>251292
Are you will to intervene militarily to stop them from uniting
But Germany has the greatest idea and can make the world a better place. Why destroy them?
>>251220
Leave Germany Danzig, give Poland the Polish. Look at Germany as an ally now instead of the enemy. French also get Lorraine
The tricky one is Russia, what to do with siberia...
>>251314
Germany is a nation built over the butthurt, no peace can be reached with them.
>>251220
Genocide/relocate the germans in east prussia, no other way
>>251220
Take Alsace-Lorraine and nothing else. Fuck Poland.
IRL shitpost and just give Germany all of Eastern Europe minus the Balkans
Do this to Hungary.
>>251431
No. You IRL shitpost by giving German ONLY the Balkans.
>"Hey guys, we heard you wanted a place in the sun!"
>>251220
1. Divide Germany into 3 kingdoms, of Hannover, Bavaria, and Brandenburg.
2. Make one single Arab state in the Arabic peninsula
3. Create Yugoslavia minus Macedonia, which becomes a buffer state between Bulgaria, Albania, Greece, and the Serbs
4. Restore the Polish-Lithuanian as a federal republic
>>251299
It took a Bismark and multiple successful wars to get them to unite. They're not just going to instantly re-coalesce, especially if you're bribing the people at the top.
>>251292
Austria wasn't elector, but Habsburgs hold since 1526 title of Bohemian kings who was elector.
>>251497
I didn't say immediately but there is going to be a strong movement to bring the country together.
>>251515
La victorie over allied and neutral countries?
Seriously?
I feel what the more interesting map would be if you could've drawn the Middle Eastern / North African borders in the Syches-Pichot, how would you have drawn that?
>>251524
over everybody
>>251472
This, but I would divide Germany more and rhineland is basically a French state. And personally, Armenia gets big and Assyria is a country just because.
>>251220
Limit economic sanctions to symbolic reparations, just enough to hurt but not to damage the economy.
Completely (and I mean completely, only allow police and coast guard) disarm Germany and Austria (while guaranteeing their protection ofc) for 10 years.
Dismember Germany in Bavaria, Hanover, Baden-Wurttemberg, Saxony, Prussia (or whatever works best ethnically).
Give Schleswig to Denmark, Lorraine to France.
Dismember Austria by giving independence to Czechia, Slovakia, Croatia, Hungary.
Give the appropriate pieces to Serbia, Romania.
Give Italy what was due to them to avoid (or at least slow down) fascism, maybe juggle Dalmatia with something colonial to avoid slav butthurt.
Give Greece, Serbia and Albania the turkish balkans, divide Istanbul in two (who cares about what happens in Anatolia afterwards, not Europe).
That's it more or less. Other shit would require allies losing land, so not really practicable.
>>251472
>>251220
Pretty much the same thing. There wasn't really anything wrong with the borders except Prussia.
>>251220
Oh man this is my favorite autism !
I made a map some times ago of what post WWI Europe should look like, what do you guys think ?
>>251497
>>251584
Dividing Germany would be very nice, but Germans tried to unite since 1848. It didn't work only because rulers didn't want to accept their pleb conditions like democracy.
>>251515
Implying Brits would agree with overpowered France
>>251516
- Turks didn't agree with original division of their country and eventually defeated allies in Turkish War of Independence.
- Russians not Poles recognized Ukrainians as separate nation and both wanted Ukrainian clay. Moreover in 1918 was in total chaos.
- Slovakia was non-country, without Czech they would have hard time resisting Hungarian revanchism
>>251590
>not giving Arabs enough reasons why fight each other and not bother rest of the world
>>251627
I think Schleswig would go to Denmark, Czechia should go free, Germany should keep Alsace, and if you're going to give Italy Corsica, you might as well give them Nice and Malta.
Also I don't think Serbia/Bosnia is safe united.
>everyone landlocking Poland
loving this meme
>>251220
Give A-L to France. Done.
>>251533
>this kills the germany
>>251637
The Wilsonian Armenia was just a meme
Didn't know that one
Yeah I probably should have just given Slovakia to Hungary.
>>251652
just make them live with Lithuanians
>>251652
It's more about "how do we keep these monkey poles satisfied" not creating the ideal Poland
>>251472
>Make one single Arab state in the Arabic peninsula
oh man
>>251646
Italian Corsica is a mistake sorry ;_;
What would you propose for Bosnia/Serbia ?
>>251533
It's beautiful.
>>251652
Is there any good reason to let them have sea access? Given their neighbours, they wouldn't have the means to start a war over it.
>>251683
>oh man
Them or Yemen would indeed work best.
>>251789
sea access is pretty important senpai, if you combine landlocking Poland with diving germany into weak states Poland would probably take the sea themselves
Remove all borders.
>>251220
>Lorraine to France
>Alsace independent state
>Dismember Austria by giving Sudetenland to Germany while free Czechloslovakia, Galicia to Poland, Hungary gets WW2 borders, Trentino goes to Italy while Bozen stays with Austria, release Yugoslavia with Dalmatia and Istria going to Italy
>Posen/Poznan plebiscite
>Allow Austria to join Germany in the future
Fìn
>>251646
>I think Schleswig would go to Denmark, Czechia should go free
Second
>>251627
>dat middle eastern purple blob state
>no new Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to offset Soviet Power
pls no
>>251627
>Polish majority areas not in Poland
>baltics and croatia exist
>italian corsica
>the fucking middle east
>>251508
Grazi.
>>251627
>No Ireland
Brits out
>>252114
>Ireland matters
Why not remove Wales and Scotland then?
>>251896
As long and Germany keeps Souther Schleswig and gets the Sudetenland, I agree
>>252163
>As long and Germany keeps Souther Schleswig
Why tho? It's danish land.
>>252163
>Germany ... gets the Sudetenland
why? it's never been a part of Germany
>>252143
Why not indeed!
>>252143
Because they weren't threatening armed revolt every 20 years or so, most likely. It makes sense to have a free Ireland if the aim is a peaceful Europe, because they are willing to spill blood for it in spite of the wisdom of their attempts.
>>252230
>wanting to leave the UK
I never understood this. The UK already recognizes that Scotland, Wales, and England are separate entities. What's so bad about being in it?
Just have exactly what happened except break up Germany into its states and what is left of Prussia into its provinces. Divide Germany up into spheres of influence among the UK, France, and maybe the US/Poland. Make up some holocaust-like event so the Germans become so horrified at themselves like how they are now.
>>251220
>It's year 1918 and allied powers won the war and you are in charge of redrawing the borders. Your goals are to achieve lasting peace and prevent the horrors of war ever happening in Europe again.
>What do you do?
do the same thing as before
just enforce the treaty this time
>>252254
Consider that the irish were treated like a colony. Their situation was scarcely comparable to Scotland and Wales.
>>252272
Ah, I didn't know that. Makes sense then.
>germany has just caused and lost the worst war we've ever seen
>lets give them more land
brilliant lads
>>252319
so you would award land to a defeated country? land which it did not claim or want? uhhh...
>>252319
>What is nearly complete German majority unlike North Slesvig
Something that happened in Holstein. Southern S was pretty much even, and was historically considered danish land.
>>251533
I live there and I would actually be perfectly fine if it had happened that way.
>>252369
>Lasting peace
>Giving more land to the defeated country that was the most militaristic potence
>>252369
Appeasing the loser (especially a thoroughly crushed loser) at the expense of neutrals and winners is not gonna loosen tensions m9.
>>252369
>germany being strong caused the war
>let's make them stronger
Before we do anything, can we just give Belgium to the Dutch? It looks really annoying just squeezed inbetween France and the Netherlands. Just divide it and give each halve to both countries.
>>252369
by rewarding a country which was one of the major factors in the war starting
you are literally saying to them "if you cause a destructive war, you will get a bonus!"
>>252379
Splitting Europe not along ethnic lines like the Entente did isn't either m8
>>252350
>>germany has just caused
lol
>>252393
we're talking from the point of the fucking victors here, anything else is irrelevant
>>252389
But dividing Germany would prevent wars.
>implying both wars aren't a result of Germany AND France's lovers' quarrel
If you're going to dismantle states just chop up both Germany and France already, and reform the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth to keep the russians in check.
>>252403
>Germany AND France's lovers' quarrel
That's a funny way of saying German expansionism.
>>252397
No we aren't. OP only said the Entente won and you are tasked with the sole goal of preventing another war. Splitting up a bunch of countries by artificial lines while nationalism is such a major force is only setting a stage for another one
>>252399
No it wouldn't. There was no strong sense of regionalism, only nationalism. Splitting Germany up by giving a bunch of ethnically German land to foreign countries and splitting it apart in artificial states sounds appealing if you won the war, but if you want to prevent another one it does not. Also:
>implying only Germany causes wars in Europe
Lel
>>252427
>No we aren't. OP only said the Entente won and you are tasked with the sole goal of preventing another war. Splitting up a bunch of countries by artificial lines while nationalism is such a major force is only setting a stage for another one
if you want to go with complete fantasy like giving more land to germany then what's even the point
>>252427
Thats why we decided to get rid of Germany.
>>252442
>then what's even the point
To prevent another bloody war (with the added bonus of preventing Nazism and hopefully containing Communism) as well as keeping Europe in the center of geo-politics
>>252427
This is silly, Germany's jingoism was not a product of irredentism, it was to claim "Germany's place under the sun". Giving them some somewhat ethnically german land is not gonna solve shit, Germany would still be in a position of resource scarcity compared with its rivals, so if you don't cripple them they're gonna give it another go as soon as they're ready (which would be very soon, considering a stronger Germany means weaker allies and the allies were already weak as shit in RL ww2).
>>252485
One of the main cause of the rise of Nazism and the Second World War was irredentism. As for the First one, piss-poor diplomacy after Bismarck (particularly perpetrated by Wilhelm II) as well as hatred by France and Russia led Germany into an isolated power on the global stage. Seeing France and Russia wanting to destroy Germany, the German's preemptively fought (in accordance with the Schlieffen Plan)
>>252471
The changes made IRL were already not enough to prevent unrest in France and Italy. Giving land to Germany *might* (> ) quell their jingoism, but it would ease the rise of fascism in Italy and of communism in France immensely.
>>252528
>One of the main cause of the rise of Nazism and the Second World War was irredentism.
Because of Hitler, and even with him the resource race was a primary objective. If you leave the junkers in control, you basically go back to 1914.
Federalize Europe. To include present day Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania, Lativa, Estanoia, Switzerland, and that bit of Turkey in Thrace.
New European Federal government will have its capital in Zurich. Government based around USA's.
The colonies all become part of the European Federation. Though they are still colonies and their natives are not allowed immigration back to EF's homeland.
UK and it's Commonwealth/colonies not included in the Euro Federation. Ireland is though.
>>252556
>Federalize Europe
>in 1918
Yeaah this is totally gonna be ok with the ultranationalist populace.
Shit's barely flying today, nevermind back then.
>>252565
The people is tired after years of war, bro.
Annex A-H and Russia to Germany
>>252565
Got to sell it as something everyone is going to be equal in. Not just France and others forcing it on Germany and Austro Hungary.
Use the pain of the war to push it. As a single European Nation State will keep such a tragedy from happening again.
>>251363
How would that fix dick all?
Starting from 1918 doesn't quite allow you to work out a peace that is satisfactory for everyone and achieve lasting peace, because of the events of the war itself. Germany's stab-in-the-back myth still exists and the Russian monarchy has already collapsed, for instance, both factors that would lead to continued conflict. In these terms, I don't feel comfortable having Germany shoulder the full weight of the burden, because, while killing everyone in Germany is technically a way of guaranteeing that WWII doesn't happen, so is killing everyone OUTSIDE of Germany. Partitioning Germany is not a more acceptable solution than just giving her all that she wanted from the war in a silver platter.
Also, demanding the partition of Germany while doing nothing to deal with the russians sounds to me like nothing but French rethoric that's more preoccupied with restoring French position as uncontested continental power at the expense of her rival rather than actually achieve peace.
>>251627
Off all the nationalisms in the Austro-Hungarian Empire the czech one actually was the most threatning to the Empire, yet you want a new czech-austrian state?
Pretty sure that is not going to work.
Pretty much the same, with Poland fighting ruskies harder to create second commonwealth, as this was the plan originally
Give Macedonia to Bulgaria
Also an independent state of Transilvania would be the best solution to the hungarian-romanian conflict
>>252620
Yes, but demographics trump those as well
>>252642
rip in peace shu and wei
I'm hot shit now
>>252658
>Baltic Union
>Includes East slavs which have no relation to Baltic people
epic
>>252662
You come up with a good name friend
>>252680
Its retarded, have Est,Lat,Lit in one country, independent and leave the rest to Russia
Something like this (I just googled "separatist movements in Europe" and picked one of the first maps), except chop up Germany a bit more. Basically everybody who wants to be independent gets to be independent.
That way no one nation is strong enough to fight an elongated unification war. I would want to set up something similar to the Eurozone to boost the general European economy to allow the new nations to fund themselves.
The biggest threat would be peaceful unification efforts that could re-create the pre-WW1 map.
>>252696
I was thinking of a buffer state to protect Europe from Russia. It would need to be big to prevent being eaten
>>252701
Oh shit nigga that's a good name
>>252704
Yeah I get that but really its just throwing a bunch of different ethic groups into one country, look at yugoslavia, which are ethnically much closer than the country you made, it will end out shit
>>252708
If you seriously insist of using the word "nigga" you should fuck off to /pol/. This board should be a safe space from your kind.
>>252715
haha ebin "false flag" friend :-D
>>252715
I'm really not a /poltard though sorry friend no intention to offend.
>>252700
>Italy is only South Italy
>North Italy is named Padania
What? Huh
Goku WINS GET YOUR ANAL AT THE DORE
>>252700
can you imagine having to learn all these xountries in school.
>>252760
Hello Reddit
Easiest game of my life
>>252748
No idea m8. Like I said, I just grabbed one of the first maps I saw
Literally just take the French proposal from 1915 (with Poland and Finland independent of course).
Germany is redivided into independent states, and its border is at the Rhine. No WW2, millions of lives and European hegemony saved.
>>251497
Reuniting is much easier than simply uniting for the first time.
>>252798
>moravian austria
peculiar
>>252798
Why did the French have such a hard on for Russia? Did they really think that Germany was the bigger threat?
>>252798
>dat Russian Empire
Maybe no WW2, but there still might be conflict between Russia and the US as they compete for global influence
>>252808
seeing as germany was their neighbor and attacked them a while ago, how can you even ask that
>>252760
simply hilarious /b/ro
>>252708
>Oh shit nigga that's a good name
It's a thing actually
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermarium
>>252818
Germany should be a buffer, while balkanized that Russia could easily over run them and get to France
>>252808
But that's perfectly correct until nuclear arms and global projection
>>252808
>>252813
Russia was a member of the Entente, so you couldn't have a plan where they lost territory. And on that map it's not actually much larger than it was in 1914.
Obviously that plan would have changed after Russia surrendered in 1917, and like I said Poland and Finland would definitely have been independent.
>>252798
Make Transilvania independent
Deafeting a syain only makes hiim strongert i wil retturne
>>252833
>you couldn't have a plan where they lost territory
Treaty of Lithuanian Brest?
>>252824
I had read about this sometime in the distant past but forgot the name thanks friend.
>>252842
You mean the one signed by Germany and Russia that was made without the other Allies and was made null when WWI really ended? He meant the allies couldn't produce a treaty that would cause them to lose land
>>252798
Damn the french are retarded.
>>251554
>Rhineland is basically a French state
>FIDF trying to take more German land
>>252842
That's when Russia surrendered in 1917, like I just said. Which would have and has been rendered void by Germany's own surrender a year later.
>>251877
Poznań always was 100% Polish. It is in Greater Poland region and is like 50km away from the place first Polish country originated (Gniezno)
>>252858
Not him but the Rhineland is rightful French clay tbf lad.
>>252591
austro-hungarian split and a a country for the polish people.
Germany, Bohemia and Poland get their place in the sun and no one is squashed.
>>251472
>2.
>Not uniting all the arabs under a democratic unitary republic
>>251497
Unite under HIS terms. German nationalists wanted to unite the country prior to Bismarck's schemes, but he wanted Prussia to be the head of the nation.
>>252876
Based on what? French occupation for a miniscule amount of time that no one alive today experienced? Before France it was Holy Roman, after France it was German. The closest tie they have to France is being Frankish, which isn't much.
>>251652
By giving Poland a port access you're splitting Germany into the mainland and Königsberg, thus asking for future conflicts regarding the Polish corridor.
>>252917
It's the ancient borders of Gaul, it's the border between Rome and Germania, it was part of Francia, and it's part of the land lost in the Treaty of Verdun that France then spent a thousand years reconquering, just like Alsace, and finally had reconquered by the Revolution, but sadly lost again due to British warmongering.
That's because it's the natural border between France and Germany, it always was. It's a necessary defense for both countries. Without it, a united Germany means that France is perpetually at the mercy of German invasion, as the Germans are separated from Paris only by a few hundred km of flat land.
>>252956
>natural borders
love this meme senpai
>>252979
If there's one thing that isn't a meme, it's the shape of the fucking Earth.
>>252998
I suppose Corsica is apart of your natural borders too?
>>252998
Because it's bigger army diplomacy at the finest and has no place in nation states.
It's about as silly as Germany declaring their natural western border as the Seine.
>>253036
The natural border of Roman Italy was the Alps, so why not make it so? If we intend to bring up facts from thousands of years ago
>>253045
And that is still the border today. You're just proving my point.
>>253050
The alps are divided by several countries
>>253036
Neither was the Rhine except for like 2 days during the revolution.
Not to mention the Seine is wide as fuck.
>>253055
The border of Italy runs entirely through the Alps. It's literally Italy's natural border. And it's France's natural border on the other side, followed clockwise by the Mediterranean, the Pyrenees, the Atlantic, the Channel, and... the Rhine.
>>253062
The Rhine was the border between Gaul (and later Roman Gaul) and Germania for over a thousand years. The people of the Rhineland have Gallo-Roman ancestors, not German.
>for like 2 days during the revolution
20 years.
>Not to mention the Seine is wide as fuck.
Are you serious? You should maybe have a look at the Seine and then at the Rhine. You can throw a fucking stone across the Seine.
>>252956
>thinking modern day france has a claim on the rhine because muh frankish empire
also
>due to British warmongering
>France then spent a thousand years reconquering
nice warmongering, France
>>253095
Reconquering lost clay that is vital to your nation's defense is a pretty obvious way to go.
>>253117
>it's not warmongering if we do it
So you support Germany's reconquest of the eastern provinces? One can justify that it's vital to the defense of their nation and they have a claim on it due to previous occupation :^)
>>253094
>The Rhine was the border between Gaul (and later Roman Gaul) and Germania for over a thousand years. The people of the Rhineland have Gallo-Roman ancestors, not German
The French aren't Gallo-Roman, they're French who are decidedly not Gauls or Romans or Franks for that matter.
Likewise Rhinelanders are Germans. And for that matter there's nothing Gallo-Roman about Corsica.
>20 years.
And Germany held Alsace-Lorraine for half a century, more recently as well.
>Are you serious? You should maybe have a look at the Seine and then at the Rhine. You can throw a fucking stone across the Seine.
It is roughly as wide as the Oder river, which frogs have no problem claiming as the Eastern border of Germany.
>>253124
It would be fine if it wasn't for Germany being a psychopathic monstrosity obsessed with world domination and destroying everything worthwhile.
>>253178
Are you literally a character from a 1914 political cartoon?
>>253178
Elaborate.
>>253183
He's obviously French.
>>253138
French = Gauls + Romans + Franks. Germans = Germans. The border between those two peoples is the Rhine.
Why do you keep bringing up Corsica? It's an island, who are you trying to attribute it to.
And why do you bring up Alsace-Lorraine? It's the same thing as the Rhineland, Gallo-Roman land West of the Rhine that was lost after Verdun and then reconquered. Just like how it is French, so is the Rhineland.
And I'm pretty sure nobody in France gives a shit about the Eastern border of Germany, you should take that up with the Russians.
>>253178
>Says Froggy
>>253193
>Lost after Verdun
There was no France before Verdun, then wasn't even a France right after Verdun, so nothing was reconquered, what came before Verdun was a Frankish (German) Empire, not France
>>253193
>attributes franks to the french but not the germans
How delusional can you get?
>>253193
AUTISM
U
T
I
S
M
>>253178
We're talking about ww1, not ww2.
>>253193
Exactly my point, French are a new bastard ethnicity. They have about as much to do with Gauls as Americans have to do with Anglo-Saxons.
All the more to my point, you can't harp on about a mythical Gaulish past in the Rhineland and how France must exist in the borders of the old Gauls when Corsica was never Gaulish for a moment in history. If historical homelands are so important Corsica is more belonging to Italy, or even Tunisia.
I bring up Alsace-Lorraine because Germany held it for longer than France held the Rhineland, and held it more recently.
>And I'm pretty sure nobody in France gives a shit about the Eastern border of Germany, you should take that up with the Russians.
That wasn't my point, my point was there's a precedent for rivers of comparable width to the Seine being natural borders.
>>253183
>>253184
Germany is a country that should never have existed. It's a creation of pure butthurt and nothing else. Butthurt at France, butthurt at Western civilisation.
The militaristic Prussians harnessed that butthurt to transform a collection of peaceful comfortable little kingdoms into their personal war machine. Read the inscriptions on the Hermannsdenkmal built to celebrate German unification, the butthurt is everywhere. The eternal rage at France, at Rome, at the West. At a civilisation that Germany never truly belonged to and always tried to destroy more or less consciously, from the many attempted barbaric German invasions on the superior culture and lands of Gaul that they were jealous of, to when Luther destroyed Christendom. As a united empire they tried desperately to invent an identity for themselves, to be the anti-France, but now that their butthurt had been given unprecedented power their feelings of inadequacy turned into the biggest superiority complex of all time. They started to make themselves believe that they were racially superior to everyone else, and sought to destroy all other nations and all traces of their achievements, in order to dissipate the obvious cognitive dissonance created by their own mediocrity.
Two world wars and a Holocaust later, the West still hasn't learned its lesson and allows German to destroy what is left of Europe once more.
>>253238
That description doesn't fit WW1 or WW2.
>>253204
>7 "Napoleonic" Wars
>not a single one was started by Napoleon
>>253257
>all this mention of butthurt
Clearly you're still assmad about the Franco-Prussian war and how Germany surpassed France in every way both before and after their unification.
>>253261
>2 "world" wars
>not a single on was started by Germany
>>253257
144 YEARS LATER
STILL BUTTHURT
>>253278
>>>/fra/
>>251220
genocide the germans
>>253253
Rhineland is Gaulish, Roman, and Frankish, just like the rest of France, unlike the rest of Germany. This isn't so hard to get.
Corsica was never Italian or Tunisian, no idea what you're on about.
And who held what more recently is entirely irrelevant, which the example of Alsace-Lorraine clearly shows.
And the Seine has never been and never will be a border, it makes no sense be it topographically, historically, or ethnically.
>>253270
How was the Frankish empire French?
>>253261
Except the invasion of Russia and the Hundred Days.
>>253269
Both were started by Germany.
>>253308
Incorrect.
>>253304
Well it was called France, its capital was Paris, its kings were called king of the Franks, crowned in Reims, buried in Saint Denis, its patron saints were Saint Denis and Saint Genevieve, it covered almost exactly ancient Gaul...
How was it not exactly the same country?
>>253308
Now you're just being retarded.
>>253306
Invasion of Russia wasn't a coalition war. Pretty sure the British also started the war in the Hundred Days, seeing as its the war of the Seventh Coalition.
>>251220
Carve Germany up between the Allied powers. Eliminate the German state forever.
>>253298
But it isn't, it's German. Just ask them.
Okay, what the fuck. The Genoese aren't Italian but ever cunt ever to live anywhere near France is French?
>And who held what more recently is entirely irrelevant, which the example of Alsace-Lorraine clearly shows.
This is true, do you now see why France briefly holding the Rhineland is irrelevant?
>And the Seine has never been and never will be a border, it makes no sense be it topographically, historically, or ethnically.
And neither does the Rhine. All natural borders are totally made up to justify land grabs,
>>253339
>WW1
>started by Germany
I like memes too but you're pushing it too far
>>253327
Franks were Germans not Gauls, It was called the Holy Roman Empire, and the West Francia. It covered all of Gaul but also Italy and East Germany, and its Capital was Aachen according to Charlemagne.
>>253332
Strictly speaking it started when Napoleon busted out of prison and started attacking the restored Bourbons.
>>253343
>Just ask them.
Yeah no shit, after decades of German and other immigration. But as late as 1920 the Rhineland rose up against Germany and briefly maintained its independence (it was sadly reconquered by Germany in the absence of French support).
The Genoese aren't a country.
>do you now see why France briefly holding the Rhineland is irrelevant?
You're the only one who keeps bringing that up, I never mentioned it once other than correcting you.
>And neither does the Rhine.
Except it does in every way mentioned as has been explained multiple times now.
> All natural borders are totally made up
OK I guess the border between Europe and America is made up too.
>>253339
>ww1
>nazis
>>253345
This is /his/, you don't get to call correct history memes while spouting memes.
Germany declared war on France and Russia. It literally started WW1.
>>253353
He didn't attack shit. He literally just walked to Paris without firing a shot, all the troops sent to stop him joined him, and by the time he got there the Bourbons had fled.
>>253380
Austria-Hungary declaring war on Serbia started it, don't be a goof now.
>>253373
>Yeah no shit, after decades of German and other immigration. But as late as 1920 the Rhineland rose up against Germany and briefly maintained its independence (it was sadly reconquered by Germany in the absence of French support).
And you know, that time they were German for over 1000 years.
>The Genoese aren't a country.
Neither are the Gauls, retard.
>You're the only one who keeps bringing that up, I never mentioned it once other than correcting you.
What I'm trying to say is historical precedent is irrelevant when the majority of the population are content to be in the current state. Likewise the Rhineland is ethnically German and topography is just irrelevant period.
>OK I guess the border between Europe and America is made up too.
Yes, hence why no one gives a fuck about the French and their random Caribbean islands.
>>253374
You're right, it actually had nothing to do with Nazis. It was just another war that Germany started, where it invaded neutral countries, mass executed civilians, systematically destroyed ancient monuments and artefacts, introduced chemical weapons and other ways to turn war more horrifying, and eventually surrendered leaving Europe in rubble.
Nothing to do with "Nazis", everything to do with Germany being Germany.
>>253346
>Holy
>Roman
>Empire
>>253409
Austria-Hungary declaring war on Serbia started a war between Austria-Hungary and Serbia, not a world war. Germans just saw this in a long series of random Balkan wars as an opportunity to chimp out on France.
>>253346
Franks were Franks, not Germans. It was called Frankish Empire, with an syncretized Gallo-Roman culture and language in a Frankish state, and descendent of the western roman empire because of this. HRE was an desperate attempt of Franks rulling in the east to be too considered a descendent of rome, and not an almost-colony and distant lands of an Gallo-Roman-Frankish empire.
Daily reminder that the Assassination of Ferdinand was a false flag operation by Kaiser Wilhelm
>>253423
Indeed and by the same logic France just saw Germany attacking Poland as a chance to start a world war.
>>253428
>The Franks (Latin: Franci or gens Francorum) are historically first known as a group of Germanic tribes that roamed the land between the Lower and Middle Rhine in the 3rd century AD
>>253410
>that time they were German for over 1000 years
Goes to show you how long their Gallo-Roman identity maintained its individuality.
>Neither are the Gauls, retard.
Gaul was a united country on two occasions before the fall of Rome. Pretty sure Rome was also a country. And so was Francia.
>is irrelevant
Not to France. Not to world peace either.
>>251533
Got me pretty erect to be honest.
>>253432
France was obligated by treaty to defend Poland. It's extremely obvious that France had no desire for WW2 to happen and made every effort to prevent it.
>>253416
>It was just another war that Germany started
No it wasn't.
>>253447
>Two occasions
I know of the Gallic Empire during the Crisis of the Third Century (However that included England and missed Lower France), what was the other time?
Facts
>>253433
We're not talking about the 3rd century AD dimwit.
>>253346
Jesus Christ get off my /his/, this is just embarrassing.
>>253433
Great, and the Dutch are their descendents linguistically as far as I know, and neither are germans.
>>253466
>Belarus, Ukraine, Catalonia, Montenegro Independent
>Hungarian Slovakia
>Turks in Europe
4/10
>>253447
>Gaul was a united country on two occasions before the fall of Rome. Pretty sure Rome was also a country. And so was Francia.
Gaul was never a united country.
French can't really claim Rome considering it was ruled entirely from Italy and proper Romans became Italians.
Francia was simply German as fuck.
>Not to France. Not to world peace either.
Fuck France, if they feel so strongly about the Rhineland maybe they should try attacking Germany.
>>253468
Franks were always a Germanic tribe, it wasn't until 10th Century that they were assimilated
>>253476
Would you kindly point out the flaw in that statement and not use an Argumentum ad lapidem
>>253346
Prior to Charlemagne, France did not include Italy or East Germany, and its capital was Paris. Charlemagne is the one who conquered Germany and Italy, and that empire fell apart again almost immediately.
The Holy Roman Empire comes much later and was born out of the Eastern part of Charlemagne's empire, the part he had conquered.
>>253459
Yes it was.
>>253494
There are two Holy Roman Empires really, the one that Charlemagne created after being crowned in Rome (which disintegrated after he died) and the one the Otto created which lasted until Napoleon
>>253457
I know, I'm being sarcastic because by the same token Germany was allied to Austria.
>>253464
Pretty sure the Gallic Empire included all of Gaul (not sure what you call "Lower France"). The other time is when Vercingetorix united all the Gauls, though it was brief of course.
>>253493
You don't even know the difference between Francia and the Holy Roman Empire.
>>253504
Gallic Empire didn't include this region
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provence-Alpes-C%C3%B4te_d'Azur
>>253486
>Gaul was never a united country.
Yes it was, twice.
>French can't really claim Rome
Irrelevant. French are Latin, Germans are not. Border between Rome and Germania is the Rhine.
>Francia was simply German as fuck
Not in any way.
>maybe they should try attacking Germany
That would go pretty quickly, but they could also just wait for Germany to start and lose another war. The French just have to stop being so ridiculously nice to Germany afterwards.
>>251220
You baka anon none of the allies wanted lasting peace. They wanted to fuck the losers over extremely hard by redrawing borders however they fancied (think africa), took germany's land (the good ones that made money) and make them pay for everything (with money they couldn't make anymore)
>>253300
>No one notices my map
q.q
>>253487
Yes Anon, a Germanic tribe lived in the middle of France for 700 years as a Germanic tribe, still humping their trees and living like Gypsies in camps or some shit. OK.
>>253519
French are latin like the Normans are latin like Romanians were latin
notice the things these peoples have in common?
>>253506
Francia was the Frankish state that came before Charlemagne, then Charlemagne was crowned Holy Roman Emperor (According to every source I can find) After the treat of Verdun that civil war between Carolingians ended and West Francia eventually became France
>>253457
>France was obligated by treaty to defend Poland.
France was also obligated by treaty to defend Czechoslovakia and instead they literally served Sudetenland to Hitler on a silver platter.
>>253526
Shut up, you attention whore.
>>253499
Nobody calls that the Holy Roman Empire.
>>253536
Holy Roman Emperor leads the Holy Roman Empire and Charlemagne was the Holy Roman Emperor
>>253500
Germany was under no obligation to defend Austria, it sure as fuck was under no obligation to help Austria attack another country, and it sure as fucking fuck was under no obligation to start a war with a totally unrelated country at the other end of Europe.
>>253538
I thought HRE was the Eastern Francians and Italy, not Charlememe himself
>>253533
We're talking about Francia here (which didn't cease to exist since Charlemagne remained king of the Franks even after conquering all that shit).
>>253534
Yes this clearly proves that the French were the warmongerers trying to start WW2.
>>253556
They weren't, but to me it shows the French didn't give a flying fuck about what they were legally obligated to do.
>>253534
Chamberlain did that, he was Hitlers bitch
>>253538
Nobody calls it that. Charlemagne was king of the Franks, then in 800 he became emperor of the Romans. The HRE was founded in the 10th century by Otto out of Eastern Francia, which was made up of territory conquered by Charlemagne.
whoever gutted germany completely just made sure the red flood would wash over europe completely
>>253565
Chamberlain might have been a pacifist kekold, but the UK wasn't even obligated to attack Hitler because of Czechoslovakia UNLESS France attacked. And France did not.
>>253519
>Yes it was, twice.
It was once a Roman splinter state which was about as Gaulish as Nazi occupied France.
And another time it was an alliance of tribes.
>Irrelevant. French are Latin, Germans are not. Border between Rome and Germania is the Rhine.
The eastern border of Rome was to Persia, why not just claim that as France's eastern frontier if they're so Latin?
>Not in any way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks
>The Franks (Latin: Franci or gens Francorum) are historically first known as a group of Germanic tribes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankish_language
>Frankish (also Old Franconian or Old Frankish) was the West Germanic language
>That would go pretty quickly, but they could also just wait for Germany to start and lose another war.
Except you know, when the USA murders France for attacking a country under their protection and disturbing the peace.
>>253539
Yes it was
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_Alliance_%281879%29
Not to mention they only declared war in reaction to Russian mobilization against Austria. Not just to dogpile on Serbia.
>>253587
>The eastern border of Rome was to Persia, why not just claim that as France's eastern frontier if they're so Latin?
Are you stupid? Persia doesn't have a border with France.
>doesn't know the difference between 3rd century Franks and 6th-9th century France
>Except you know, when the USA murders France for attacking a country under their protection and disturbing the peace.
Yeah I'm sure all your naziboo fantasies will come true and America will side with the Germans next time they start a world war.
>>252385
This, might as well give them Louxemberg too.
