Hello, /his.
First, the link: https://mega.nz/#F!AE5yjIqB!y7Vdxdb5pbNsi2O3zyq9KQ
THIS IS NOT A READING THREAD; take that shit elsewhere.
Someone last thread was asking which materials are suitable for academic citation. I wouldn't cite “AMOoKoS Manual” or Carroll's “Apophenion”, but I'd certainly cite anything in there by Brill, any “University of” press and anything in there which counts as, given you project, a primary source, (Like Crowley's unpublished papers in the Yorke Microfilms of the Warburg Collection). When in doubt, ask your professor if a given book's an acceptable source reference.
Divination's as old as magic itself. It's got a long and rich history, from reading smoke, to flocks of birds, to the organs of animals. Haruspex was the method of divination by which an diviner would 'read' the qualities of an animal liver and attempt discerning an answer to the query. We've got a number of Etruscian (and other) bronze plates that illustrate places where abnormalities of the liver could be found and their rough correspondence. Babalon would also do this, in the form of 'Barutu'. We actually have large chunks of translations of the core texts and there's an academic book called “Babylonian Liver Omens” that covers them. I do not have a scan as I cannot find it online but surely if you're in Uni you can get an interlibrary loan. Here's the core European practice from Liber Tagetici: https://web.eecs.utk.edu/~mclennan/BA/Har.html
fuck you and your occult nonsense
>>377903
Yi King developed out of reading the cracks formed in bones subjected to heat, and was codified by, allegedly, King Wen. These days the Wilhelm translation is still the standby. I -think- I've got a copy in the library. I'm really fond of Karcher's concordance, which I use around the house, which gives all the other possible English translation options for contextual semantic bleed. It's absolutely great if you want to attempt your own personal translation of the system, but has the issue of lacking commentary. The method uses either piles of yarrow stalks or coins for the probabilistic generation of broken and unbroken lines arranged into 64 hexagrams which are said to embody the characteristics of a given moment in time. Survey of books: http://www.biroco.com/yijing/survey.htm
Divination systems are diverse; over in the Voodoo folder, I've got another academic text soley on African methods of divination, which range from central/West African initiatory systems that very much so mirror what happens in the modern therapy session, all the way out to Shri Lankan modifications on Arabic astrological theory. It's a shitty HTML copy, but is otherwise very good and I've written a few papers using it as a base.
Tarot's the big dog, particularly in the West. Marseilles tarot is where we get the vast majority of our cards, from Rider-Waite through GD to Crowley's Thoth deck. It derives from the game of tarot, which survived in France but died out in Italy by the time the French imported it. Jodorowsky put together a reprint of the old cards. Another Western cartomancy method of interest is Lenormand; in the very late 1700's a young woman developed a 36 card deck using a 1799 version of Tarot as her standard. These are much less tuned to mysticism but more folk oriented divination; who is fucking who, auspicious harvest days, etc. I've seen it work reasonably well given the narrower symbolic syntax the cards employ.
>>377907
That's not very nice.
>>377934
Oddly enough I don't really have a working divination folder. Usually divinatory methods get subsumed into other practices in magical systems. You'll get a lesson on divination while learning about broader topic X. As such divinatory material's really scattered about the library, beyond the mentioned material I've got a copy of Tarot and the Magus over in the Thelema folder.
Anyway, I'd still love to hear about some material or references on old Chinese astrology beyond what a google search will pull up so if you've got any resourced I'd love to look at them.
>>377963
I'll top off starting discussion with one of my favorite lectures on the origin and usage of the ankh by Mogg Morgan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hqhiQ9znZc
>>378017
>Berkeley, California: Red Flame / J. Edward and Marlene Cornelius, 1998 . First Edition - limited Softcover. Quarto viii + 230 pp (+iipp, adverts) Edition limited to 156 copies. Original printed wrappers. The first and only edition of this, the fifth number of this important journal of Thelemic scholarship. This issue, effectively a book in its own right, was devoted to Crowley and the I Ching: "This volume is a thorough study of Aleister Crowley's understanding and use of the Yî King (I Ching) or Book of Changes. It gathers together the many references to the Yî from Crowley's writings, both published and private, to provide a valuable glimpse into the structure of the Yî as well as the mind of Aleister Crowley." Appears unread, thus a tight, clean near Fine copy.
>$400.00
Okay, who was digging up the bones in Massachusetts?
>>378204
?
I ain't in the Northeast, so it ain't me. I might know a guy or two, though.
>>378215
Jokes aside, wanted to pop in and thank you for these threads. Been following since the start on /x/.
5 corpses dug for Santeria.
>>378240
Maybe someone up there's using Liber Falxifer?
And thanks, I just like providing resources on this stuff that's not some dude's rambling blog.
Just wanted to say thank you for these threads, and please keep them up, it is the only fun discussion and knowledge that i get to have regarding the occult.
>>378259
Anything is possible over in that part of CT. Dedicated guy bringing them in from Mass.
>>378296
That's a shame, anon, though I know that feel. Second world nations and rural areas in the first world can be startlingly lonely when it comes to these things.
>>378240
Out of curiosity, how long have you been following, exactly? Since I started tripfagging in 2012? Or when I got the library finalized? It's always amazing to see folks who've kept along the whole time.
>>378324
Since Z posted his initial experiment proposal. So, the beginning.
>>378381
I'll always love the Kaula more than the others. I can barely be assed to care about Natha save where it intersects with Thelema. I feel like the Aghori hit the Saivite mark harder than the Natha but what can you do with a householder lineage?
Still, though, Natha's considered a gateway to other Saivite lineages so I do want to get involved at some point. I talk to Magee from time to time, and it makes it sorta awkward as the last thing he wants to chat about usually is the Work but it makes me reluctant to contact AMOoKoS given I've got him and Hine on tap if I really really need them.
>>378403
English Tantraloka when though?
I can definitely dig the Aghor side of things, hell, never thought I'd be doing Kapalika amaroli practices.
>>378430
>English Tantraloka when though?
Today.
http://www.exoticindiaart.com/book/details/sri-tantraloka-only-complete-edition-with-sanskrit-text-and-english-translation-set-of-9-volumes-NAJ844/
It's just another 500$ investment. 400$ for Jeebuzmas.
Then the scan job would be fucking arduous. But my friends who read the language say Abhinavagupta so sublimely BTFOs Vajrayana that its worth it to learn to read the fucking thing.
That said, I *think* I've got the relevant chapter for the Kaula ritual uploaded into the library. If I don't I've no idea why I'd have redacted it.
Its Mysteria Magica a good book for starters?
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/793292.Mysteria_Magica
![JKT01[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/izKYI6c.jpg "JKT01[1].jpg")
I noticed you do not have a copy of "Rhapsodies of the Bizarre: The Tarot Essays of Antoine Court de Gebelin & M. le Comte de Mellett".
I do not believe it's made any more, but it's really interesting stuff by a very polarizing anti-motherpeace, anti-newage studier of the tarot. His whole obsession was over why tarot became such a popular divination tool.
These French writings were really the first to try and address the issue, but with it made it's background to ancient Egypt, and ascribed a history and explanation to the tarot that, while not true, added depth to the tarot for use as a divination tool.
The argument isn't where tarot came from, as much as what it became. Over the years it's been tailored to divination, and while any set of tarot cards can be ascribed the "meanings" of tradition, the symbolism on the cards are also a source to draw from. This (personal opinion) makes the first great tarot deck the Rider-Waite deck, and the current best the Thoth deck, which is incredible.
In your opinion, what makes a good tarot deck?
I got away from my original point, I have had the printed book for a while and do have it in storage, and I could scan it to PDF for you, if interested.
>>378451
https://mega.nz/#!AdYnSYiJ!xe465aGXPLm4dAT8xjYo3cU7-EobpohNYtHV7oes_18
Dude, fucking huge bad on my end. I've been holding on to this analysis of the Kaula Rite for like three years now. Fuck. I think I was holding it back until I could verify it was a GOOD analysis.
It's a full size book on a single chapter of the Tantraloka.
>>378468
Aurum Solis gets a bit fluffy but I can't really bash the dudes. THAT SAID, you're going to be getting a rather different course than the GD inheritors, and I'd recommend you DO NOT end your studies with that thing. Use it as a torch to guide you to other reasonably solid material and/or source documents.
>>378470
>what makes a good tarot deck
You like it.
Sure, I'll take any books folks direct to me, if they're not new age section at B&N garbage.
Sorry about the lack of divination and such in the library; I kind of rely on the GD and Crowley and cultural studies to carry you most of the way - and the obscure material's hard as fuck to track down, see "Beastly Book of Changes".
>>378522
Will do, also I'd like to link "Jess Karlin"s tarot FAQ: http://glennfwright.com/Tarot/tarotfaq.html
Many new-ager's hate this FAQ, and while there are some parts of personal bias, it's the most correct information on the tarot I've found.
>>378587
I can pull out a few gripes from it but show me some material I CAN'T gripe about.
>>378639
Well, the guy is totally off his rocker, but it's as good a place to start as any for the absolute beginner on the internet.
Hell, I'd probably just tell someone to buy Book of Thoth and get the deck and have at it if they were really interested, but even it has it's short comings.
>>378678
Hell, I just tell most people to use the booklet insert. It's not like the basic attributions are particularly arcane subjects. 9/10ths of people are going to use cold reading anyhow and not care about the structure or symbolism.
>>378522
Do you think that their ogdoadic tradition would constitute a good basis for the reconstruction of a mediterranian paganism? Using the greek magical papiry ofc
>>378722
Um...
I was gonna say flat out no, but it's largely going to depend on the dedication of the practitioner. Aurum Solis is a weird beast. It's in the Western tradition and inherits a lot from it but takes things in avenues and directions I don't see much fruit coming from. It's there, just...not much.
It could use some hardening. Any project an aspirant undertakes hardening those sorts of systems is going to serve the Work in the long run.
It would also depend on the time period. I suspect one could use Chaldean Oracles and other Neoplatonism to hit a good middle ground, but at this point I've given you the codifications of sacred law, the divinations, and as much reconstructed ritual as I can find, both in terms of revisions and the source material itself...so go wild, dude, and let us know if you get good results.
>>378522
Cheers mate.
I'll grab that commentary when I head home.
>>378848
Yeah, feel bad about not posting it sooner.
>>378937
>ON THE OPERATION AND RULE OF THE TREE OF LIFE IN THE CELESTICAL HEAVENS PROJECTED AS IF IN A SOLID SPHERE
Westcott's paper on the subject from the early GD material.
>>379259
http://www.angelfire.com/ab6/imuhtuk/gdmans/tarot/p.htm
Hey guys, I want to be a wizard. What's the fastest way to accumulate and incorporate a fuckton of prana into my spirit? I already do 30 minutes of pranayama a day.
Also, it true that the more prana I have, the more people (preferably chicks tho) will want to be around me so they can be parasites?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakshatra
(Quick primer for Hindu Astrology, probably have more of that than most other divination oriented material).
>>379846
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khecar%C4%AB_mudr%C4%81
>>379944
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakshatra
does this work if you don't cut your frenulum
>>379944
i love frenulum
This is all a load of crap. There are no tricks; ESP is only produced by raw strength of focus.
Aside from shitty mantras and faggot bardon sigils, what's a good way to invoke Mars?
I want to be hyper-aggressive and masculine. How?
>>380267
Only if you want to waste your time. Biggest purpose of Yoga is to open the energy flow in your Soul.
20 minutes of Buddhist retard lobotomizing meditation is enough for an iron-strong mind. The rest is just to weed out the lazy or naïve people.
>>380260
>I want to be hyper-aggressive and masculine. How?
/pol/ helps.
David Griffin's a huge lolcow but his book Ritual Magic Manual's good for GD keyed rituals to Sephira and planetary spirits.
I dunno how much this qualifies as 'faggy bardon sigils' in your book.
>>380284
>Biggest purpose of Yoga is to open the energy flow in your Soul.
Whaddya think the other 3/10ths are.
>>380284
>20 minutes of Buddhist retard lobotomizing meditation is enough for an iron-strong mind.
Bump that up to 45 mins. to an hour, and I'd agree.
>The rest is just to weed out the lazy or naïve people.
Exactly.
You seem combative, friend. What's your deal? Like divination?
>>380297
I think that's the mars m8. Have you tried Picatrix Mars mantras/sigils?
Maybe I should just fuck a ram.
>>380319
No, actually.
I imagine they're fine, though.
>fuck a ram
Worked for the Greco-Bactrians.
>>380374
>not fucking horses
literally pleb tier.
>>380386
Mongolia, pls leave, unless you want to share the wisdom of your ancestor spirits.
>>380399
>Mongolia
>Not recognizing indigeonous European practices
Do you even have a connection with the land, bro?
>>380415
Why would I recognize indigenous Euro practices like second nature? Remember, I'm a shitskin :3
To what is the sucess of the yi king and tarot as means of divination traditionally attributed?
>>380267
>#FANTI
what does this mean?
>>380419
Oh, pardon. I'm new to the thread.
So yes, when you become head of your sept, the proper thing is to go out and marry a horse. Because the horse is the land.
Apparently there's a similar practice in the Pushtun region, which indicates it being super-old indo-European.
>>380445
nifty, source?
>>377903
>tries to be mystical and catchy
>tries to sound intelligent and well informed
>still mispells "magick"
Behold your 12 year-old trying to keep an intelligent debate.
>>380455
Sorry. I think the practice in Ireland is mentioned in ''From Chiefdom to State in Early Ireland,' but the Pushtun connection was in a conversation with the professor about it.
>>380533
AC's anachronism has been fairly well integrated in the last 100 years.
>>380567
Ireland, eh? I've been wanting to brush up on that material.
Wonder where the Greco-Bactrian goat fucking arose out of. The horse diddling complicates matters a bit. One of my co-conspirators is looking for echoes of Pan and Babalon through ancient history, and seems to be fixated around old Arya goat domestication in and around Pashtun through Issyk Kol.
Incidentally going through the Avesta's a real good way of parsing out what the Arya brough with 'em and what they pilfered from the Dravidians.
Your library is incredibly impressive, but does it have anything entry level?
These threads seem really interesting but it's like damn where do I even begin
>>380840
There is a folder called beginners in the library. Anything that isn't bardon from that folder will do fine.
>>381567
Even Bardon will get you by in a pinch.
We just get a few ideologues who think he's the only person that matters in the last couple hundred years.
Random notes for DBoE:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/azdaha-dragon-various-kinds#pt1
http://www.avesta.org/yasna/yasna.htm#y9
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zahhak
>>382479
Also:
http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Constellations/Draco.html
>>381567
Come at me faggot.
>>382757
There's enough dickwaving through these materials without aspirants perpetuating it.
Slow thread this time through.
Y'all think a 'occult/secret society/fraternity through history' thread would get a few more replies than divination?
'Cause that can totally be the next thread if I don't have enough books saved up for a library update.
>>377903
I know there's a history running through at least late classical neoplatonism through the islamic golden age of taking divination seriously. Was there a popularly accepted causal mechanism? How about in china or india?
>>383212
>I know there's a history running through at least late classical neoplatonism through the islamic golden age of taking divination seriously.
Yes, though to my knowledge it was mostly based around astrological advancement.
>Was there a popularly accepted causal mechanism? How about in china or india?
Overall? Someone else asked that ITT and I just don't have any clear answer aside from what particular cultures said about particular systems at the time. All we have are the Arabic grimoires, though I'm fairly confident that after a couple hundred years chatter with coffee and hash often revolved around the splendor of Allah's ordered heavens.
Picatrix and the texts in which the first fragments of Emerald Tablet appear like Kitāb sirr al-ḫalīqa would probably be your best bet for answers around Arabic material.
I think India's harder to parse out than China or Arab/Persian elaboration, as sure, you've got Jyotish, but how it was used between various Vedic and Agamic sects, and even subsects within those spheres appeared to have differed pretty wildly.
Tell me about them.
Tell me about Gnostic Satanism.
Pic related.
>>383470
What do you want to know?
There's a folder on Freemasonry with huge chunks of their ritual scripts and doctrines in the library. For most everything else there's:
http://www.stichtingargus.nl/vrijmetselarij/ritualen_en.html
Most people are going to try to sell you some kind of narrative about Freemasonry, be it benevolent or malefic. I'd rather folks read through their own internal material and come to a decision on their own.
>>383490
You mean like contemporary? I think Mike Ford's one of the better leaders in that pack but unfortunately he's still Satanism's bargain barrel replacement for decent artists and sychretics like Chumbley (though I should give Ford props on most of his music with Hexentanz). Honestly, I'd say Aquino works that entire notion of Satanism better than most even if the materials don't explicitly cover Gnosticism or even what most folks consider Satanism.
As far as historical stuff is concerned, you'd first have to show me a coherent Satanic tradition older than the early 1700's. Doesn't mean it ain't there, just we have no solid evidence of it so all I could offer is wild speculation.
>>383514
>As far as historical stuff is concerned, you'd first have to show me a coherent Satanic tradition older than the early 1700's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_of_the_Black_Light
>>383529
>The Misanthropic Luciferian Order is an occult order founded in 1995 and later renamed to Temple of the Black Light. The band Dissection were so involved in the group that the bassist Haakon Forwald pulled out, partly in order to concentrate on his esoteric studies.
Besides that Ixaxaar's not been publishing any revisions of old material, but rather new elaborations on current phenomena like Saint Death.
>>383581
I don't know what you're talking about.
>>383586
They're new and shit, basically
>>383586
I thought you were posting ToBL as an example of Satanism older than the 1700's.
ToBL was founded in the 90's. I was commenting on how new it was compared to the vaguely implied Satanic tradition in Grandier's confession and Grimorium Verum.
>>383470
/x/ might be a good spot to ask about that. MasonicRC is a very knowledgable mason who hangs out there
>>383614
I misread, I thought he meant examples of Satanism from after the 1700s.
My bad.
I'm still interested in why these people believe what they believe.
>>383610
Shit's a pretty strong word; I do think Falxifer can be worked, I just think the aspirant would be better served in the long run by learning Spanish and reading the copy of "Ritos y Mitos de la Muerte en México y Otras Culturas" in the library.
>>383616
I've talked a lot with MRC. He's a great cat. Haven't seen him on /x/ in a while, but fair warning, /x/ is in a state of corrosion right now, and half serious questions are going to get replies from folks like Fairy Queen or Sevenleaf pulling things out of their butthole.
>>382479
>>382753
Nicely done. I'll have a read of them, and then into the wiki they go.
>>380586
>Ireland, eh? I've been wanting to brush up on that material.
There's actually an Irish Order of Thelema here. They developed from the OTOF, who split from OTO in the 90s (iirc). The intention was to replace the Egyptian mythology with Irish mythology.
Not sure how successful they've been. Their translation of Liber Al into Irish was Google Translate-tier, and the book one of their members released on ogham was pretty poor (extremely speculatiive, badly formatted)
That said, any interaction I've had with their members (limited, a while back) has been positive.
Website here:
http://irishorderofthelema.com/
>>383647
For all that, though, /div/ has been a huge success.
I kind of preferred it when it was just a discussion about divination rather than readings, but I've used it for tarot practice in the past, when I was getting used to my Marseille deck
>>383651
Wasn't Oscar Wilde in the order of the Golden Dawn?
>>383634
I've got a whole folder with material from the Western LHP.
LaVey, Aquino, Myatt/Long, Karlsson, Koetting, Ford, and a few small press authors like Mark Alan Smith, and his "Queen of Hell" is actually pretty damn decent given what most of his LHP peers are publishing, though I wouldn't give much time to Red King, it slides sideways in terms of coherence of thought and historicity.
>>383661
No, that was WB Yeats
>>383662
>Koetting
Pls no
>>383651
>There's actually an Irish Order of Thelema here. They developed from the OTOF, who split from OTO in the 90s (iirc). The intention was to replace the Egyptian mythology with Irish mythology.
I'm very well aware.
They're not bad cats, but I wonder how long they'll stay above water.
>>383657
/div/'s great, it's a shame the other name and tripfags can't step up to the plate. It's have the reason I'm here, as ten questions on tulpas/suckbutts gets real annoying real fast. At least here I MIGHT run across folks willing to read the material in the library and google for two minutes before asking a basic question.
>>383661
>Membership in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, founded in 1888, included aesthetes such as Algernon Swinburne and prominent Irish poet W.B. Yeats; the great magickians McGregor Matthews, and later the infamous Aleister Crowley --but not Oscar Wilde. Oscar was frying other fish at the time. His wife Constance Wilde was a member. Richard Ellmann, in his carefully researched biography of Wilde, makes no mention of Constance Wilde’s Golden Dawn Membership. There is just a notation that Oscar and Constance pursued their own interests.
>>383651
>three separate Irish grammar or spelling mistakes on the front page and counting
>>383681
Huh, I didn't know Constance Wilde was a member.
Regardie seems not to have been a big fan of Yeats- the 'innovations' of the SM seem to largely have been shit, and their stagnation at the upper levels (zero new material despite endless searching, as Mathers wasn't there) meant that Yeats and others went off on tangents, doing things like seances which had nothing to do with the Work.
>>383699
Nobody liked Yeats. Don't know why, he seemed like a perfectly well actualized aspirant, especially in comparison to some of the dilettantes the Order attracted.
Also, I don't think any Order's got the authority to tell someone what is and isn't Work after Adept. Fuck, AC and Jones/Achad worked on Ouija together.
>>383740
Tbh, Regardie calling Yeats a meh-tier practitioner is the pot calling the kettle black.
Kind of wish modern GD orders would produce some new material rather than sponging off famous old members though- it seems like Zalewski produced a truckload of stuff and then that was that
>>383762
>Kind of wish modern GD orders would produce some new material rather than sponging off famous old members though- it seems like Zalewski produced a truckload of stuff and then that was that
Welcome to all my Thelemafeels.
Seems like a lot of these Order lackeys are content to practice what's already been established as working rather than risk the adventure of innovation. People become acclimated to THE WAY and if it's not THE WAY, it's garbage, hence why you hear jokes about the OTO in the GD then in the OTO you hear people reject Chumbley without a second thought: "Dats lyke Wiccuh, right?"
I think the folks who sperg out about dogma should fuck off back to Christism. I didn't get into mystical experimentation to be told "the system was perfected hundreds of years ago, why bother with anything new?".
>>383796
All systems get stagnant at some point, I guess. Look at the poor old Catholic Church- they tried to curb the stagnation in 1962 and ended up royally fucking themselves.
Chumbley is a breath of fresh air because even though his stuff isn't a radical departure from existing stuff, it improves it and takes it in interesting new directions.
Hell, even O9A, for all their faults, are doing something a little different. Nothing drove me to distraction in GD more than 'oh well this is how the original order did it, so it must be better'.
Incidentally, two more days of KA, and then 10(?) days of interstitial...I need to get memorising the ritual script
>>383824
>Hell, even O9A, for all their faults, are doing something a little different. Nothing drove me to distraction in GD more than 'oh well this is how the original order did it, so it must be better'.
RE: O9A, I'll take them over ToBL, ToB, Dragon Rouge and whatever Koetting's peddling this week, every damn time.
Yup, two more days on Ka, then ten days interstitial. I've got my script for Black Sun printed out. I really need to head out this week and finish prepping the Blood Acre.
>>383836
Sheeeeit, I'll have literally two days tops to prepare the acre- if the site is even as suitable as I remember it being (read: not very but it'll do)
I'll memorise as much as possible, if not everything- I personally always hated using scripts in ritual, it ruins the atmosphere. But that said, this is Chumbley-level ritual scripting, so we'll see.
I SHOULD be able to collect the boughs in one day. Whitethorn and Willow will require a bit of hunting, but I have an idea where to find them.
I'll also need to acquire a metal bucket to burn everything in. Should be fine.
I must read the interstitial section again- am I correct to say the Vessel needs to be bound with a layer of cloth every day?
>RE: O9A, I'll take them over ToBL, ToB, Dragon Rouge and whatever Koetting's peddling this week, every damn time.
If they just dropped the edgy pretension to human sacrifice and other hypothetical 'sinister' acts, they'd be pretty good imo. Though to say their material is scattered is like saying Chumbley is a bit wordy; they should really try and focus a bit more
>>383867
>I'll memorise as much as possible, if not everything- I personally always hated using scripts in ritual, it ruins the atmosphere. But that said, this is Chumbley-level ritual scripting, so we'll see.
I'm going to memorize as much as I can then take loose notes with rhyme schemes in case I start to fuck off; Black Sun doesn't seem like much of an issue, though I'll probably need to read large chunks of Hu if I don't opt out for the entirely solitary practice (I don't wanna).
As for actual space maintenance I'll doing little more than moving my collection of firewood deeper into the woods, so don't worry that you're missing out on stuff to do; I intend to gather all of my wort in the course of an hour, I'd hope, then I've had to standardize for plants local to me rather than across the pond.
>I must read the interstitial section again- am I correct to say the Vessel needs to be bound with a layer of cloth every day?
I don't even remember. I'll be ceasing all practice while I standardize my notes and prep the ritual itself.
>>383894
>>383867
Also, I've been told the Column's preferred method of divination is via the Druid's Crane Bag. Assorted personal talismans of individual meaning. Thrown like bones or runes.
I'll still probably use the A.'.A.'. bibliomancy method, and it's been suggested to me that I use Liber 333 for that.
>>383925
Personally, the only system I've developed any competency with is tarot, so I may just bring my Marseille deck and do a quick reading after the rite, wind allowing.
333 could be an excellent choice in this context though, as would a range of other works. Bibliomancy is one I have never really looked into, though I remember hearing it in connection with CS a while back, they probably use something like the A.'.A.'. method, given Chumbley's background.
Had I been a more diligent 3=8, I would have learned GD-style geomancy properly, and used that. I'll consider it, but tarot is probably my safest option
It seems like you library had most of the Kenneth Grant stuff but was missing this or at least I couldn't find it so here you go:
http://tanadellupo.altervista.org/alterpages/files/grant_kenneth_-_aleister_crowley_and_the_hidden_god.pdf
>>383969
It's not been at the top of my priority list given how easy it is to find compared to his other books, but I do appreciate it and need a copy in the library.
aaaaand we're back
>>384144
It would appear so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL-B_Qfj30o
Just read Prometheus Rising now what? Nothing spooky pls.
>>384205
Did you do the practices or just read the thing? Cause if you didn't do the practices, go do them. If you did...I dunno; go where you'd like next. Let your intuition guide you to fruitful material.
Maybe Liber Null/Psychonaut?
>nothing spooky
Too bad:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENlGOU3jDOA
>>384233
Yeah I looked for dog shit instead of quarters, found a lot of dog shit.
Is this stuff actually dangerous then? I'm not going to hell am I?
>>384317
Yeah, probably, but you'll go to Hell as an intermediate duke.
Seriously though if you're still worried about Hell deprogram a bit more from the Christism and come back after that.
>>384335
At school as a child we were taught that the wrong thoughts, as children, will send us to hell. Now years of crippling anxiety has driven me here. Ironic isn't it?
Thank you for replying anyway, I appreciate what you're doing here and I'm sure i'll be looking through these in the archives in months to come. Interesting shit desu.
>>384446
>Ironic isn't it
Sad, more like it. Not you individually as a person but the culture we've created in which children are told Thoughtcrime earns you an infinite eternity of torment.
There's a few years of archives in the 4plebs /x/ repository, just search my name, or "frater k" for earlier material, or the title as I've not always been the one making OPs.
I want to be a mage. Where do I start?
>>384635
Beginner's folder in the library in the first link.
I downloaded that highly praised textbook "Modern Magick etc" and read through the first dozens of pages. Besides mentioning several times how Magick is a science and even mentioning the usage of the scientific method, the author did not mention a single experiment that was either peer-reviewed or can be easily verified instead saying I will be able to see results after a month of throwing cards around.
Also, the author mentions a legend of how Tarot started when scholars met in Fez, Morocco because (and a version says before) the burning of the library of Alexandria. this burning happened in the 4th century, Fez was founded in the 8th century. What's up with this?
How am I supposed to take this seriously?
>>384708
>I downloaded that highly praised textbook "Modern Magick etc" and read through the first dozens of pages. Besides mentioning several times how Magick is a science and even mentioning the usage of the scientific method, the author did not mention a single experiment that was either peer-reviewed or can be easily verified instead saying I will be able to see results after a month of throwing cards around.
Maybe don't believe review hype? I mentioned in another thread DMK's really not that great.
The short answer is don't take DMK seriously and stick with your source documents.
>>385145
I'm probably going to be doing a secret society thread soon/next, if you'd like to make note we've moved to /his/, you'd make a wonderful orthodox source to counter my heterodox Grand Orient and otherwise irregular sympathies.
>>385188
Yea, I've been finding /his/ closer to my school of thought (on 4chan) than /x/ really was.
And sure. Always good to have someone on the other side, as it were, to make sure it doesn't become too much of a circle jerk.
>>385282
Yeah, that's why I'm here.
Anyway I'll bump the thread a couple more times before the night's out. Glad to see the Christist spammer fuck off but sad to see he's not bumping the thread constantly.
>>382757
>that feel when your fat role playing waifu will never be a meme no matter how hard you force it.
>>385429
He's been a pretty steady /fringe/ meme for a few years now, mang.
Also, fuckin' stellar maymay.
Saved.
>>383681
huge might there
>>383691
GD seems to have failed to into the web in almost every instance
>>383796
All it takes is one look at all the asinine role playing and mental illness on /x/ to understand why people might want to stand on tradition. Or at least have a firm footing in the old for anything new they do.
The innovations we do see (that are worthwhile) tend to come in one of three varieties. First would be developments through personal practice, and these end up on the blogs you were complaining about earlier. And because of lack of notoriety these never really spread.
The second being academic research into the practice of magic. These tend to strip any magical overtones out of a magical practice. The fact that so many colleges have studies on mindfulness, and almost any therapist you can find will have some form of mindfulness to offer to their patients,is at the same time both amazing and depressing. It's amazing to see such wide adoption of practice, but depressing to see that it's been completely sterilized and used as a stopgap for unhelpful behaviors, rather than as a means of growth.
And the third category is the completely overly fantastical crap that someone else works back into a usable system. Wicca (to a very small extent), simon necro, the various modern lhp and discord, most of what passes as chaos magic. Though these tend to lack a centralized methodology, many interesting little things spring out of them.
>>385559
>huge might
I've already had more people say thanks for the material than ask a completely dumb question.
>/x/
Did this thread over there for years, m8. I think the much larger problems are - one, lack of education. I'm not even talking about college as much as I am not choosing someone's shitty blog post about a topic rather than established traditions of biography. I see this a lot with AC. Two, the large accessible publication market's kinda stagnant. Red Wheel, Weiser, Tetian, New Falcon, etc., are all owned by the usual suspects in the Caliphate. This leads to the need for and explosion of small private press.
I could probably do a whole thread on Simonomicon and what it implies. Wicca's not so bad if you find a BTW group to work with. I only dislike a fraction of modern LHP, mostly Koetting and Dragon Rouge. Discord was always a non-working statement on epistemology. I have no idea what happened to Chaos. The big dogs specialized and the people who couldn't really use the material anyway introverted, hard, and care less about stripping down the old than they do Ruach masturbation, though I'd still take most Chaos folks over shit LHP factions or mass market Wicca.
>>386632
Nice toad.
Bump with morning coffee.
>>387209
I'd be interested on your take on the Simonomicon.
>>387512
Really? Alrighty then.
The Simonomicon was written by the pseudonymous Simon. Most research indicates that it was Parfrey or Lavenda who manufactured it, BUT given the association with Weiser, the vague Thelemic bits slipped in, and where and when it was created, there's a good chance that Jim Wasserman and JD Gunther had a hand in creating it, as they were in NY at the time, Wasserman having just gotten in good with the late Weiser.
With this pack of folks working on the material, it's my wild conjecture that the entities in Simonomicon are actually charged servitors that Wasserman, et. al. created, then sandwiched between crappy translations of Maqlu. Meaning they're real (the entities), just not ancient or even particularly Lovecraftian. This would explain why people can get various results evoking the entities from the book.
That said I think the book's a trap and will not remain long in a place that has a copy. I won't let it into my home. Given the behavior of folks like Wasserman, I'd imagine usage of Simonomicon funnels operators """energy""" to the dudes who manufactured the text.
>>387529
desu I spent about a year working with the spirits of the Simonomicon and never felt them to be draining. Eager to spread would be a better description, but maybe that's just because it is a fun conversational piece.
Googled Maqlu, chatting with you is always educational.
So any other books that will cause you to bail?
>>387582
Not really, no other physical book sends off my "IT'S A TRAP" alarm bells.
Koettings works might but I'd have to work them and be in contact with a physical copy longer than an afternoon.
>>387595
One of the downsides of being aware of the whole scene. I knew nothing and still know nothing Wasserman so I can enjoy his works without bias. When it comes to Koetting I can't make it more than a few pages before a deep gut laughter escapes me and I toss the whole thing.
>>387635
Wasserman's a creepy fuckin' dude, man.
>>387661
aside from the hulk hogan stash what is so bad about him?
>>387729
Intimate personal details that caught me a ban last time I posted them.
Another bump.
>>377903
Ahem, why don't you go to /x/ with your religious stuff ?
I'm sure you'll find a more receptive audience... or maybe are they too mindless for you ? what do you think ?
>>388104
This thread contains large amounts of anthropological and historical information on ritual and mysticism, as well as religion which is covered as humanities in the sticky.
I've hosted these threads on /x/ for the last three plus years, I'm here for slightly higher discourse, as well as a higher percentage of newcomers willing to read material in the library.
>>388206
>Do you mean this kind of "knowledge" is shared and discussed in Universities ? Is that kind of stuff actually peer-discussed in human sciences, or are we discussing about a urban legend ?
In the library there's a folder devoted to Academia from two juried academic journals. Warburg and other universities offer degrees in the study of the occult, though it's not popular and often subsumed into other wider fields.
Moreover, I've got probably a dozen books from Brill up in that library, if not more, including things on like Sumerian anti-witchcraft rituals.
If I present a thread with a large amount of academic material, and people wanna talk about DMK's Modern Magick, then that's not particularly my problem.
>>388808
To illustrate:
https://mega.nz/#F!hVwCAQoZ!LykyCGE5rzj50oPKHBgMAg
^The unpublished Aleister Crowley collection from the Yorke Microfilms of the Warburg Collection, before this library it was only available at one of the five (?) universities with a copy or if you went to an OTO lodge with a copy, or to the Warburg Museum itself.
https://mega.nz/#F!UABmAJAK!76eC0KB0f7-DMqTBP8XEOA
^Academic material from Aries: Journal for the Study of Western Esotericism published by Brill, from the Journal for the Academic Study of Magic, and various bits from anthro and archaeological journals.
https://mega.nz/#F!kMx3mRiR!G_-GdGdkHWCq8jxfAuASUw
^Manly P. Hall's personal collection of Alchemical documents, probably of interest to some researchers but I'm not sure about the regulars in these threads. I thought it was cool.
https://mega.nz/#F!9RowRSzI!HH6Uz0FVoAS5m48jETkVGQ
^Eastern material, mostly primary source material on Tantras plus some smatterings of academia.
https://mega.nz/#F!wJAnXb4J!4Hkn5E4LJz0c6UYSrj3y5g
^My Euro folder's half academic, at least, if not way more.
https://mega.nz/#F!AExjhAoS!lPomaOs11pcSIQGiSZqEEg
^All these grmoires sure do look like urban legend, huh?
https://mega.nz/#F!0BZj1LZb!XrvWqq9Q5E3bWF31dEweZQ
^Freemasonry with editions of Collecteana, the journal of the Masonic College of Rites.
https://mega.nz/#F!oURXWDoS!qmD4aJ5cssv-INN--yF8iw
https://mega.nz/#F!xYpWSZIA!AIJmBr-RrBJeUdGwjt1b3A
^Gnosticism and Neoplatonism folders stuffed with Brill editions and academic books.
I've got this in my Africa folder:
http://www.iupress.indiana.edu/product_info.php?products_id=21288
I've got this in my A.'.A.'. philosophy folder (which just tells me I need to make a shamanism folder):
http://www.amazon.com/Darkness-Secrecy-Anthropology-Witchcraft-Amazonia/dp/0822333457/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
So yeah, there's stuff in here that's peer discussed in social science...hard, exhaustively, and with rigor.
come get comfy n chat about history/mythology/memes
https://kageshi.com/rooms/mercurius
memebuds engage.
Idle bump for a quiet thread.
Before I first guided the hand of the scribe,
When the mind alone served as the quill,
And the memory alone served as the tablet of fate,
And the cipher of wisdom dwelt in music and song,
then did I first give the fire of the holy art of magick unto men,
then did I cast down from the visible effigies of that power from their invisible abodes,
and from the forgotten kingdoms amid the stars to the land of the two rivers, the horned dragon of my worship arose.
And through the waxing strength of my adoration,
the dragon became a many-headed serpent,
and with tongues of fire delivered speech
into the kingdoms of men.
Many times have the oracles been spoken,
and many times have they been forgotten and lost.
To prevent this, I have insitituted a law,
that the children of the dragon's brood,
may become my arcana incarate.
Turn not from the way through the passing of the ages,
Nor neglect the celebration of them mysteries!
Tried to type from memory, second half needs a little work. Too tired to rote learn much after work, I'll need to hit it hard over the weekend.
>>389374
The metered stuff is going to be the easy part, these open orations are kinda killer.
>>389677
To be fair, at least this one makes coherent sense.
It's the unmetered bits of worship that I'm worrying about, they're much harder to remember.
I'm opting for writing it all out and then rote-learning it- it slows you down, so you actually take it in, and it sticks a bit better in my experience.
Our school system requires huge amounts of rote learning, so I'm actually on familiar ground here, I had years of practice with it. This volume of text in such a short time will be challenging though
>>389698
I just make dry runs of things I'll be doing without a script. Probably be doing that all through next week.
Hu's going to be a little fucker of a ritual, though. Not sure if I just wanna read right from the script or not yet. I guess we'll see how well I perform the rituals before it. I'm not actually averse to reading off of a script but I've been avoiding the hell out of relying on one for the last four-ish years. Most everything in the current's short enough to memorize in a couple days save temple/officer initiations.
I IMAGINE this would be way easier with a Quadriga to work with and take fractions of oration.
genuinely surprised the tripfag who constantly posts in capital letters isn't a prominent figure in an occult thread
creepy ass nigga
>>389737
Dude's borderline incoherent, I'm glad he's avoided us.
>>389729
>I IMAGINE this would be way easier with a Quadriga to work with and take fractions of oration.
Hadn't thought of it like that, actually. I imagine Chumbley thought this was pretty reasonable, given that he was only saying part of the lines.
>I'm not actually averse to reading off of a script but I've been avoiding the hell out of relying on one for the last four-ish years
I really prefer not to, if at all possible. Nothing kills the atmosphere more than somebody fumbling with or dropping a script.
That said, the pace is going to be bananas from HU onwards, so I may be eating my words come february.
Just finished my last KA. We are now officially entering the Interstitial Period, so I REALLY need to read up on it. Not sure what I'll do during this period practice-wise, maybe drill up on dreamwork and AP, or some LRP work or something.
It's actually less daunting than it first appeared- I find breaking it up into the GD-style Opening-Main-Closing structure helps a lot. There's one or two horrible sections of oration, but a lot of it is either metred or repetition (e.g. the exorcisms), so it should be okay.
I reckon it'll take an hour and a half tops, and the fire is only lit for like like two thirds of it, so shouldn't be too unwieldy.
Glad I'm going through it slowly though- I had completely dismissed The Oracle as a bland opening statement, but it sets the tone for the entire rite, it's a summary of the Cainite element of it (spoken BY cain, notably).
Also getting closer to choosing a motto. May extract something numerical from Genesis 4:25, as it strikes me as a very good summary of the Abel-Cain-Seth formula. Bit of work to do, but I'll work on it
>>389814
>maybe drill up on dreamwork and AP, or some LRP work or something.
AP.
The dream will come (apparently), but with no body of light, preliminary Hu's going to be like teaching ancient Akkadian to an undercooked steak. You don't need to be Lord of Iesod, just, like, brush up.
>I reckon it'll take an hour and a half tops, and the fire is only lit for like like two thirds of it, so shouldn't be too unwieldy.
Fuck, I was thinking an hour if you were brisk about it.
>Also getting closer to choosing a motto. May extract something numerical from Genesis 4:25, as it strikes me as a very good summary of the Abel-Cain-Seth formula. Bit of work to do, but I'll work on it
So you're....finding us new Keywords!?
>>389863
>The dream will come (apparently), but with no body of light, preliminary Hu's going to be like teaching ancient Akkadian to an undercooked steak. You don't need to be Lord of Iesod, just, like, brush up.
I'm way past the days of being accosted by stuff in the astral, but my months out of the GD (and GD practice) cost me- took me a few sessions to get stable enough not to get sucked back into the body. I'll be drilling up on it during the interstitial- at least nightly, if not during the day too, time allowing.
What other exercises help to solidify it? I seem to remember it being mentioned as a result of the LRP, but again, GD outer order teaching is infuriatingly quiet on this sort of stuff- fine in an age where people wouldn't have known about this until the inner order, but in the Internet age it makes little sense not to teach it.
>Fuck, I was thinking an hour if you were brisk about it.
Yeah if you clipped through it, I guess an hour would be fine- the extra half is accounting more for the little 'extra' bits, e.g. the oracle, collecting the ashes, various other pit-stops between the orations, etc. I'd allow for two to two and a half hours total to be safe, from set-up to tear-down.
The weather here is pretty terrible atm, so getting a little worried, given that I'll be lighting a fire outdoors- with any luck it'll hold off, but I'll need to prepare for the fire going out.
>So you're....finding us new Keywords!?
Would you use keywords from the Bible? :^)
I appreciated that Schulke article on Cainite Gnosis a lot more now that I've read the DBoE, actually, you can really see what CS were driving at on a wider scale with the Cainite material- originally I had wondered how it was relevant to the DBoE, now I get it a bit more
>>390075
>I appreciated that Schulke article on Cainite Gnosis a lot more now that I've read the DBoE, actually, you can really see what CS were driving at on a wider scale with the Cainite material- originally I had wondered how it was relevant to the DBoE, now I get it a bit more
The Voodoo's making my mind bubble. We know Michael Beriteaux has contacts all through that shit. I know that some Yoruba, Ifa, Aro, etc., practitioners in Nigeria make a habit of contacting folks like Weiser for their version of 'inner order' shit, they'll get old ceremonial books and integrate them into their cults - one wonders if MB wasn't training a few folks down in Haiti in the ways of the ceremonials.
>>390075
Also a couple odd pointers.
I got zero advice on AP. Different methods work for different folks. In your case I'd try "rising on the planes" using vipassana.
If weather is bad: Perform it indoors like Black Sun then toss the box into a bucket fire w/your wort. My ceramic's not fired yet, so I may have to wing it to an extent myself.
>>390146
The bucket fire is happening either way, lighting a fire on wet grass would be a bigger hassle than I'll need on that night.
I've used Alan Chapman's version of Rising on the Planes (basically just AP and fly upwards until you can't any more), as I haven't had any instruction on it in GD. Not sure if I got much from it. Is there another method?
I'm getting back into the swing of it quickly. My astral temples are stable enough now- previously I had a great one that I just couldn't get into one day- it was like a glass ceiling developed that I couldn't get through, after a month or two. The one before that was meh, but was attacked by a giant bug. Must make a proper one again.
Actually, I'm really hoping there IS actually a dream on the way to tell me where to get the next vessel....I can just buy another one of the one I currently have, but it'd be nice to be led to one.
My main fear with the DBoE is that the rites simply won't take effect, so I'm redoubling my efforts to get everything ship-shape as I go.
>>390095
Fascinating, why do the Nigerian practitioners look to the WMT for their inner order material though? I would have thought their material would have been pretty developed in that area.
>>390272
Chapman's just AC's.
>>390272
>I'm getting back into the swing of it quickly. My astral temples are stable enough now- previously I had a great one that I just couldn't get into one day- it was like a glass ceiling developed that I couldn't get through, after a month or two. The one before that was meh, but was attacked by a giant bug. Must make a proper one again.
I've temples within temples, and I guess we'll both be getting new ones in the fey realm when it's all said and done.
And working with the Behenian fixed stars, OP pic related, which I've been wanting to cross off my list for a while.
>Nigera & why
Why do Westerners get into Voodoo or shamanism? Because they can. Also, it's an accessibility thing; the dibya who can get their hands on rare Western material is wealthy and has access to secrets most of the people in Lagos couldn't even fathom.
Again, I'm not looking for serious effects until ST and Hu. If it develops aspects of the dragon my personal praxis left me lagging in, I'll be fine.
>>391269
Nice kapala.
I'll give a couple more bumps before the night's through.
Oh shit, I guess this is the right place to ask.
I just sort of need to know everything about occultism in the Victorian era, since they seemed really big on the whole secret knowledge thing.
>>391357
>Victorian
Holy fuck, how many days do you have?
>>391359
It's not actually for a school project, I'm just curious to learn a thing or two about it for a tabletop campaign I'm in that's giving me the perfect opportunity to play a guy that's steeped in that stuff.
>>391371
Alright, so I'll give a brief synopsis of the beforehand:
Rosicrucian papers get published and people lost their shit trying to find them. Some Enlightenment thinkers get sick of not being able to find them and probably influenced a lot of Freemasonry going speculative.
Anyway, so Order of the Golden and Rosy Cross forms in Germany out of some Freemasons and Alchemists. This group later gets sublimated back into Freemasonry proper as SRIA.
This would put us in and around Levi's time. This of course ignores the Grimoire tradition, but Levi covers it and as you'll see most others after him do as well.
In 1887, the founding members of the Golden Dawn get a hold of (allegedly) a cipher left behind by the modern German inheritors of the Order of the Golden and Rosy Cross, their contact point being a woman. The guy who decodes them is named Westcott, you can see a bit of his work here: >>379259
>>379267
He and his buddies Mathers and Woodman break away from SRIA to rewrite the rituals and initiate women. The Golden Dawn is born.
>>383681
>Membership in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, founded in 1888, included aesthetes such as Algernon Swinburne and prominent Irish poet W.B. Yeats; the great magickians McGregor Matthews, and later the infamous Aleister Crowley --but not Oscar Wilde. Oscar was frying other fish at the time. His wife Constance Wilde was a member. Richard Ellmann, in his carefully researched biography of Wilde, makes no mention of Constance Wilde’s Golden Dawn Membership. There is just a notation that Oscar and Constance pursued their own interests.
Around this time, in the late 1800's, a young and curious chemistry student at Cambridge gets in touch with Waite of the Rider-Waite tarot deck. The chemistry student wants to know more about an alleged magical fraternity, so Waite passes the kid a copy of Eckartshausen's Cloud Upon the Sanctuary.
The chemistry student absolutely devours the book and won't shut up about it to his friends, one of them being a guy into cocaine and Buddhism. The guy into Buddhism starts to imply that he knows the very secret order hinted at by Waite and Cloud upon the Sanctuary, and that's how Crowley gets introduced to the Golden Dawn through Allan Bennett.
The notes Crowley took as a member of the golden dawn are all in my Yorke Microfilm collection and also in OTO Rituals and Sex Magick, or maybe How to make your own McOTO.
>>391372
>>391396
>>391417
Okay yeah, I'm definitely bookmarking this thread for a finer comb of reading tomorrow, looking up sources just leads me to deeper sources.
>>391417
Things start to get dicey.
Mathers thinks Bennett and Crowley are brilliant but Westcott and other more conservative members are leery of the kid. That doesn't matter much as Westcott strokes the fuck out and goes incapacitated.
Mathers and Crowley work together on an edition of the Lemegeton, or the Clavicle of Solomon, which supposedly gives the operator control over any one of 72 "demons" and their legions. It's still one of the more popular editions even if AC makes some odd assumptions and mutilates a few of the sigils.
People are getting even more squicked out at Crowley and Bennett. They were probably fucking and doing huge amounts of drugs while practicing the middle teachings of GD and advancing the Order's understanding of yoga via Allan's contacts.
Crowley then buys the infamous Boleskine, his house on Loch Ness. He buys it with the intention of completing the 'Abramelin' ritual which gave complete and total control of the pits of hell and put one in communication with their "Holy Guardian Angel". The house was chosen due to exact specifications, and his diaries record that as he performed the long-term ritual, footprints in the sand he'd brought in as per instruction from the ritual would routinely appear from spirits or whathaveyou.
>>391442
The library's 30 gigs with the most complete AC/Thelema/Golden Dawn collections I'm aware of outside private torrent trackers. Please make use of it as you follow along.
Do you want me to take you out to the end of WWI as that's when it actually starts to wrap up the info.
Pic related is from AC's Lemegeton personal notes. More to come.
>>391466
>Do you want me to take you out to the end of WWI as that's when it actually starts to wrap up the info.
Absolutely! This stuff is fascinating, if a little hard to digest.
>>391449
Anyway AC's steaming along on Abramelin when some...thing I don't remember needs AC's attention so Mathers more or less begs the man to return to the Lodge. Whatever transpires there AC essentially demands to be made a 5=6, or Adept in the order, justified via the fact he's doing Abramelin while all the other lazy fucks are playing Enochian chess.
This doesn't go over to well with the Order and they tell him to get dicked. So he does a couple insignificant things then heads over to Paris's branch of the GD to be initiated by Mathers personally.
Nobody in London wanted to recognize him so Mathers told AC to go fetch the Vault of the Adpets and it became a minor legal battle that Mathers/AC lost.
Spence suggests the whole ordeal was some kind of intelligence op to fuck up the GD. In any case, the GD implodes due to the drama and AC fucks off to Mexico to cool off, climb things, eat shrooms, and consider wtf to do.
He moves to Mexico City and attempts to form a new order the "Lamp of Invisible Light" but it falls to bits when the Enochian Angels he'd relied on to transmit the system essentially kicked him out of their realm of being. He stops working magick and begins considering climbing as a career.
This ends the Victorian era proper.
>>391503
>He moves to Mexico City and attempts to form a new order the "Lamp of Invisible Light" but it falls to bits when the Enochian Angels he'd relied on to transmit the system essentially kicked him out of their realm of being. He stops working magick and begins considering climbing as a career.
where can i read more about this? Also, where to look for other interesting victorian era developments
>>391470
Cool.
So over time eating shrooms and peyote and climbing big fuckin' rocks AC becomes a fedora tipping atheist. Rejects everything he used to be doing.
A couple years back he'd suggested Bennett just move to India full time, which he did. AC gets invited to come out to India to learn.
The Yorke Microfilms have material in them from that period including the diary "Nama Shiva-ya Namaha AUM."
His climbing buddies start to encourage him to take on K2, which he signs on for.
>British climbers Aleister Crowley (1875-1947), an occultist and hedonist, and Oscar Eckenstein (1859-1921) led an expedition of six climbers that made the first attempt to climb K2, from March to June, 1902. The party spent 68 days on the mountain, with only 8 clear days, attempting the northeast ridge. Spending two months at high altitude, the party made 5 summit attempts. The last one began on June 8 but 8 days of bad weather defeated them and they retreated after a high point of 21,407 feet (6,525 meters). Scraps of expedition clothing were later found below K2 and are displayed at Neptune Mountaineering in Boulder, Colorado.
It's said that there was an avalanche and bad weather. AC was on death's door, pulled a gun, suggested leaving folks behind. Claimed to hear the voices of the demons of the mountain telling him how they'd all die.
So after all this he gets blackballed from the climbing community and goes off to hop across the planet with his wife and his newborn daughter.
So, you want the common narrative or what I think happened? Fuck it, I'll give both.
>>391532
>where can i read more about this? Also, where to look for other interesting victorian era developments
It's a bit ahead of the story, in fact the last bit in the Edwardian era, AC starts publishing books called "The Equinox", and at interspersed through the entire ten volumes of the first edition Crowley reviews essentially all contemporary occult literature in the 1880's forward.
>>391553
cool, thanks
>>391532
RE: LIL, that's one of the least well documented bits of dude's life. Along with 1905-6.
>>391549
So, it's alleged that in 1904, AC goes to Cairo, and his wife Rose gets possessed by a spirit while looking at exhibit 666, the "stele of revealing"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stele_of_Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu
He devises a ritual, 'to have any knowledge' and transmits a document called Liber L, the Book of the Law from an entity called Aiwas which claimed to be his Holy Guardian Angel.
My theory, which is substantiated by us having his travel records; he wasn't in Cairo at the alleged time, though he was in Cairo.
What I think is more significant is in China he took a fall and had a similar experience but less is known about it. He recovers while he sends his wife and child back home, though is daughter dies of malaria on the way.
AC returns to England in 1906 and performs a self initiation into the next degree of the Golden Dawn under the direction of the mysterious George Cecil Jones, another member of the GD.
They start to conspire to create a new order out of the ashes of the Golden Dawn, and AC starts activating his old contacts and associating with the Earl of Tankerville a the time - You can read about the initiation in John St. John. Shortly after that his diaries pick up again in 1907, and you can read them in Equinox vol. 5:4, Sex and Religion. AC starts working magick again, hard, and starts having visions of "Christ" among other things. Rose burns some of his documents. I think the burnt documents were records of the HGA contact in China, and that The Book of the Law is an attempt in 1907 to replicate it. Hence why the dates and notes say it came from 1906, backdated to 1904. He also has the ritual to "have any knowledge" backdated from 1907 to 1904. Pic related.
>>391581
Ok so with 1908 wrapping up AC's writing feverishly.
He creates a whole new system called the A.'.A.'. meant to replace the Golden Dawn entirely. He starts taking students privately. One Victor Neuberg and another Austin Osman Spare. Spare's the more interesting of the two.
Pic related. Link related:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin_Osman_Spare
The pic appears in the very first book of AC's new ten volume Equinox which is meant to be a vehicle for his new order, it's where it first goes public. Spare would later break with AC over disagreement on usage of sex magick, and go on to be a founding father to Chaos Magic in the 80's.
AC travels to Algeria and starts working the Enochian material he'd left off with LIL and transmits a fuckload of strange material. He calls it The Vision and the Voice.
Upon return he's published a text called the Book of Lies. It draws the attention of and Reuss from Germany, Ruess had been attempting to reactivate the Bavarian Illuminati, and the two of them together had formed a group called the OTO or Ordo Templi Orientis. The Munich attempt at Illuminati revival failed, but the OTO was a condensation of the old and defunct Rites of Memphis & Mizraim.
You can learn more about the real actual historical Illuminati in either the original German in my library or from "Secret School of Wisdom" a recent translation of all the source documents. Some of the Illuminist modes of recognition like grips and signs made their way to the OTO.
So these Reuss German cats come to AC and tell them he's discovered the central secrets of their order as revealed in The Book of Lies. Crowley is given control over all English speaking OTO and begins rewriting their rituals.
Sometime before the war breaks out AC goes to America to start founding the updated OTO based on his rituals. He attracts followers like Charles Stanfield Jones who would later become a member of a hyper secretive Catholic organization.
>>391631
Forgot pic.
Anyway that's about as far as you can really extend 'Victorian' as after this the 20's start to roar.
More interesting things happen, though. I'm sure that's more than enough of a seed to get interested in stuff.
>>391635
Further reading:
http://sacred-texts.com/grim/bcm/index.htm
Fuck, I entirely forgot Blavastky who Crowley called a Master of the Temple; he published a commentary on her "Sound of Silence".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helena_Blavatsky
Thanks for keeping this fire stoked K, for now all I can contribute is a bump.
>>391442
Welcome to the occult. The rabbit hole goes down forever. This is why the tree of life is so popular, every bit of religion and magic can be mapped perfectly to it so you can keep track of what goes where.
>>392996
Bump.
>>393285
You were mentioning shaivism. I've always felt a profound attraction to shiva as my choice deity. How has your studies affected your practice.
>>393755
Well the first point on my path with this stuff is learning from someone about AC's Kaula contacts.
Kaula practice a form of sexual evocation. Anyway, over here we see some of the notes AC was taking with Bennett were Saivist in nature: >>391549, after this the knowledge of how he was influenced sort of peters out. A woman writes a book called "Secrets of the Kaula Circle" that accuses AC of lifting practices wholesale from them. He sues. While he's suing he's in contact with a Hindu group via a student (Curwen) who gets AC an saddhu-annotated copy of Ananda Lahare.
So a few years back I started to get into contact with some folks who'd gone to India and back and the modern inheritors of AC's strangely minor influence in India.
The cycle of practice I'm beginning in a few days draws heavily from a few sources: Thelema, Voodoo, Saivism, roughly in that order. Chumbley's a little known guy who was a student of Ken Grant who has advanced long standing and fairly old occult traditions in very interesting ways. It integrates many tools from Saivism.
Bump
>>393853
I got nothin' right now.
Suggestions for next thread? Had the idea maybe secret societies might get a few more replies than divination.
![chick_baphomet[1].gif](https://i.imgur.com/5SLwnZG.gif "chick_baphomet[1].gif")
>>394080
Sounds good to me. I don't have anything either, thus the shit posting image.
>>394368
Cool, I may let the thread slide off the board then, but keep an eye out for bumps.
I at least want dude from yesterday to be able to find an active thread if he's got more queries.
FUARK
Just realised we need crimson silk to wrap the new vessel in at the end of Black Sun
Damn it chumbley, don't just hide instructions around the place
>>394617
Also, looking for stuff about the interstital period.
So far:
>Due to the variations of the lunar calendar there may be a number of days between the end
of the Marriage Rite and the Midwinter Rite of Consummation. Upon such interstitial days the
aspirant should utilise the diverse adjunctive praxes of Arte, binding together every strand of
his web, every facet of his design, into the single-pointed focus of the vessel.
Also, dreams and divination are mentioned on the calendar. About what is unclear
>>383581
Ixaxaar's books are precisely why the term "dark fluff" was created.
>>396218
Didn't know about it but can see why. I get the same vibe off of Karlsson and Koetting.
>>396238
Karlsson may not exactly be worthy of the title "Lord of the Left-Hand Path", but I'm not sure why you consider him worthy of so much hate either. He's certainly not on the same level as Koetting! And somebunall of his stuff can actually be quite good. Maybe not much, but definitely some. His "rune yoga" postures, for example, are (rather surprisingly, I'll have to admit) even better than Flowers/Thorsson's - and some of his comments on the Draconian path are actually quite insightful... and useful.
>>396804
Karlsson mangles the klipot. Hard. Most people do so it's a harsh judgement. In terms of the Draconic Path I'll take Dragon Book of Essex all darn day.
RE: Rune yoga. That is a bit surprising; though I've not really dug into the runes. I'll keep that in mind, most people usually recommend Flowers.
>>396829
Chumbley is hardly the be-all and end-all of the Draconian path. I think Kelly does a better job of explicating it, myself. Much better. Chumbley's, and the rest of the Cultus Sabbati's penchant for obscurantism and verbosity are a huge drawback to their work, in my opinion.
I'm not knocking Flowers at all, in fact, over all it's superior to Karlsson's... but (and it's a pretty big BUT) just as an example on the rune yoga:
With the Raidho rune, Flowers has you stick out your elbow with a hand on your hip and a leg extended sideways to imitate the shape of the rune. It looks as if you're getting ready to do the fucking Hokey Pokey! Karlsson has you extend a leg forward (rather than sideways) while holding your arms out in front of you as if gripping the reins of the horses that are pulling you in a chariot. Still embodying the shape to an extent but more importantly embodying the principle of the Mystery of Raidho. Karlsson considers that more important than sticking as close to imitating the rune shapes as Flowers does... and I have to agree with him there.
I've found it to work a LOT better that way. Others may disagree. That's fine with me.
I'm not by any means suggesting that his "uthark" order is superior at all - or his runic magical practices, but certainly his rune yoga postures are more effective. At least for me. His comments on runic relationships and the path of transformation encoded into the runes is not too shabby either. He definitely makes the whole "uthark" thing sound more plausible than I had thought it to be before reading him.
My comment wasn't meant to be the kind of Bardon vs Crowley shit flinging contest that I've seen happen in these threads before. It's not a matter of either/or. I take what I find works best for me regardless of the source.
>>396958
>My comment wasn't meant to be the kind of Bardon vs Crowley shit flinging contest that I've seen happen in these threads before. It's not a matter of either/or. I take what I find works best for me regardless of the source.
Not construed that way at all I just don't like the way guy parses the klipot.
The drawback may be intentional, I think. I think he's the only guy (Uncle Andy) who is contributing to fresh material in the planetary/stellar field. You can take DBoE and apply the practices to any particular constellation or asterism, probably, we'll see when we get there, I'm about 20pgs into my notes on the system. We'll see if we can unfuck guy's diction a wee bit.
On that note, you seem like a sinister dude, you ever use O9A's Star Game?
>>397046
>O9A
I actually like quite a bit of their philosophical stuff but I could never really take them seriously enough to try the practical. It always seemed more like posturing and role play than a serious Sinister Alchemy. Plus I like keeping my LHP praxis in a more or less "pagan" context. Just a personal preference.
"The equation of the Western left-hand path with Satanism is inaccurate insofar as the practice of the left-hand path predates the imposition of the Judeo-Christian ideology in Europe. There was - and still is - the practice of the left-hand path philosophy in a purely pagan or heathen (i.e. pre-Christian) context, which does not need to refer to Satan or Lucifer to be intelligible." - Stephen Flowers, Lords of the Left-Hand Path
I have considered making a Star Game set and seeing what I might be able to do with it but haven't done so as of yet... and am not entirely sure that I want to. It's kind of a matter of priorities right now; not enough time in life to do all the things you'd like to!
>The drawback may be intentional
I can see where there might be a "weeding out" process going on with it. If that's not the purpose then there's no fucking excuse but mystery mongering! Makes it a pretty big pain in the ass though.
>contributing to fresh material in the planetary/stellar field.
And that's what keeps me from totally chucking it aside completely! I'm not too interested in fully working their system but the stellar connections keeps me coming back to see how much of it I can extricate for my own use. I luvs me sum star majix!
"Surely the connection between the dragon, the number 666 and the constellation Draco at the 66.6 degree declination is more than a coincidence. Nowhere could I find a more reasonable explanation of this number “666.” I have no idea what this means, but it’s certainly worth pondering." - Lynn Hayes
>>398413
>there will never be good Bataille memes
>>395478
>I guess that's the first thing I'm going to outright drop
Turns out we were also supposed to wrap the Marriage Vessel in black cloth....
>>398758
That's workable right now. Just set up shop in what will soon become the Blood Acre. Going to be doing transcription most of the day.
>>399095
I remembered that I managed to get membership of a Sabbatic yahoo group a long while back, so I'm digging through it now.
I think that's where I originally found things like the Devotional Mass, the Lover's Call, etc., as all my copies are in text files, suggesting I copied them from a forum or somewhere.
Seems like we're not the only people doing the DBoE, others there were at least thinking of it last year, probably this year too.
Interestingly, one topic is an ad for some materials being sold by a former associate of Chumbley's, including the text of an alternate version of a DBoE rite.
No activity there since like September, but it's been pretty steady since 2003 otherwise, so a lot of material to dig through. Might post something there and see if it gets a response
>>399203
Neat. Start keeping a record if you haven't already. Make sure to include:
>time
>date
>temp
>weather (pressure, humidity, etc.)
And so forth. Try to make an entry a day. If not then at bare minimum when there's a significant ritual or result.
>>399242
Actually, looking through the group, I suspect there's a few CS members hanging around there.
Interesting to see people having the same discussions as us from past cycles too ("okay the vessel needs to burn so what if I use this material" etc etc)
>Neat. Start keeping a record if you haven't already. Make sure to include:
Record is up-to-date so far, took me a little while to get back into the discipline. I tend to include that stuff as I go (though temperature is one I haven't done so far), as well as moon phase- it's a handy method of timekeeping when you're looking through the notes.
Tonight I'll work with AP a bit more and do some more note-taking. Must learn the next bit of oration too, we're beginning to get short on prep time, and this isn't a rite that can be phoned in
>>399266
Here's a nifty bit from later:
After Turnskin you're supposed to visualize falling asleep in the Vault of the Adepts.
>>399291
That's an interesting one- there's a LOT more directly GD and A.'.A.'. stuff in here than I'd expected.
What does Turnskin actually do, btw? I haven't got a chance to go through it yet.
Huh, Stuart Inman (one of the heads of the (British?) branch of 1734) hangs out on that Yahoo Group, neato.
Incidentally, I just realised that under the slightly weird system of grades in DBoE, we're now both 2°, and will be 3° after Black Sun, 4° once the vessel is consecrated. For whatever that's worth.
>>399364
>What does Turnskin actually do, btw? I haven't got a chance to go through it yet.
A lot I'm drawing up notes now.
It appears to mostly to be a rite about shapechanging in the shamanic sense. Moreover it's meant to raise up a reasonable simulacrum of both the Holy Mountain and the Isle of Flame inside of the fey realm. Seems deeply tied to powers of domestication and craft.
RE: Grades.
Whatever, I'm doing the ritual year in full so I can just say I did the whole thing.
got few questions:
-why did this thread move from /x/ to /his/? did it change for better or worse?
-i got interested in the Temple of Set organization ( religion founded 40 years ago). Unfortunately outside their book recommendation and their email address the internet seem to not contain any real information about them, their teachings, how to contact and talk with a setian or how good they are. i already asked ins ome threads but no one knew anything about it.
-since we are on /his/ it would be interesting to know if the philosophical core of their teaching/"morals" is similar to the ancient egypt cult of Set, or they really did just slap a new pseudo-atheist philosophy onto the face of a poor old edgy Egyptian deity they knew little about.
Have any of you faggots actually gotten tangible results from all this wizard crap?
I mean actual, practical results, not "I feel better".
>>399571
>-why did this thread move from /x/ to /his/? did it change for better or worse?
1, The sticky here says 'religion'. 2, I figure there's a slightly higher of people actually reading the source material here. 3, Quality of discourse on /x/ is just....well you should know.
It's been better to discuss but a bit slower.
I know all about Temple of Set. There's a whole folder on them in the library. You can contact them by writing an email to the address listed in the contact page of the ToS website. I'd recommend them before any other Satanic org.
>The cult of Set
That'd be a hard one to judge as we've not had much fresh academic material on them since "Seth: God of Confusion" got dropped. Aquino and others do have academic background in Egyptology. That said, I'd say the extent to which it's reconstructionist is up to the individual aspirant. Just read up on 'em, link at the top of the thread.
>>399669
Define 'actual practical'. If you're looking to levitate or shoot fireballs, you'd probably be better served by looking somewhere other than the library material. That said, I and many others swear by Lemegeton for getting shit done. I've not used it in quite a while but it's the standard go-to for supplementary finances, bringing things you want close near, and removing obstacles from your path.
>>400246
>we've not had much fresh academic material on them since "Seth: God of Confusion" got dropped
what do you mean by dropped? do you mean "released" or "contested and denied?
anyway thanks, i'll look better in the archive.
>>400384
>released
That one.
Here, I'll pull up the direct link.
https://mega.nz/#F!1QQD1BYA!hxTsOQYp_5Jbg93Ox3LSjw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqcTVVUFnKQ
>http://genius.com/Death-grips-beware-lyrics
>vessel going up in flames
>several witch references
Almost certainly unrelated, but did make me look twice
>>400411
>24. Come! let us irritate the vessels of the earth: they shall distil strange wine.
~Liber VII, Ch III
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQzNZR-LXZc
I've been reading about Nostradamus (Yeah, I know) all night, do you have any interesting reading on him/and or his work? Really disappointed with many of the modern interpretations, especially how many of them can't seem to get the translation from French done properly, it's like they're bound to fail..
>>400429
I used to keep some around but became disinterested in the guy as I learned more about Cayce; I don't THINK I've got material on either in the library, lemme check.
Guess I did keep 'em around but I migrated them to the wasteland of the 'misc/various' folder.
https://mega.nz/#!hEAlFABB!WK3jU25OCsH2jlC2ThCH6FP0p8N7hrwX1fpXsVncYPc
https://mega.nz/#!MUZGVKLA!H_a57TPNzDd6Vb_cFGWgUjvRzUcewcrHJnsUjlXtodc
https://mega.nz/#!sQhjHAgJ!Kb95PAjLWeMMCZoaRHfyx31ldYocWf7iAubpKUu0GEM
>>400450
Thanks! As usual, you're the man.
Would you recommend checking out Cayce when I've read about Nostradamus? If so, are there any particular reads you would recommend?
>>400507
Not whose names I can remember. ARE will hand out readings and other documents for review for a small fee and a pleasant letter.
>>377903
What does this mean?
>Divination through History
>>400608
As in across, or maybe diachronically, at least in my head.
I'm trying to keep narrow topics in the first few posts for people to like actually talk about things; looks like divination's not super popular, though I can see why.
Was thinking about doing secret societies/fraternities next, though I'm open to suggestions.
>>400642
Nstrdms divined the future by studying the past.
>>400685
You could sort of say that about astrology in general, and for a particular example, the Mayan perspective on how time cycles are accounted for.
Anyone have that tier list of A. '. A.'. lineages someone posted a while back? Curious to see what's out there. Might also be a handy topic during the next thread
>>401032
>God Tier:
Matheny
Straight Wolfe
Russell
Thor
>Meh tier:
Cornelius (dicked with grade structure)
Seckler via Eschelman or Shoemaker
Suster
>uwotm8 tier:
Eales/Bersson
Gunther (OTO 'official' - infested with people who exploit aspirants sexually)
Rodney O
Cherubim
Kelly
Rovelli
>>400685
s something like hegel or kant Divination? why or why not?
>>377903
Hi! I am a moderator of /r/Enochian on Reddit. I've been scouring the internet in search of more information about the Enochian language.
While a few short vocabulary lists do exist, there doesn't seem to be a consensus on pronunciation nor a way to derive new words.
Is Enochian just a relexification of English with glossolalia lexemes?
>>402831
hegel was a diviner, kant not so much -- unless you count grim prophecies like perpetual peace
>>401153
Wasn't there supposedly a Regardie lineage too?
And what makes Rodney fall into the uwotm8 category?
And what do you mean 'straight' Wolfe?
>>402911
Satyr might have been a good person to ask about that, though he doesn't post here anymore.
He felt that the English grammar structures within enochian got too much attention, as there are actually grammar structures from a ton of different places in there. Laycocks study on the subject is supposed to be quite good
>>402911
Contrary to what Wiki says, there ARE echoes of Latin and Hebrew in the language, just not much. Essentially this: >>403409
>>403390
>Regardie lineage
Via Suster.
Rodney O. just plain doesn't seem to know what he's on about a good chunk of the time. Technically he's through Gunther anyhow.
By Wolfe I mean anyone who traces their line back to Wolfe without Shoemaker or Eschelman.
>>403616
>By Wolfe I mean anyone who traces their line back to Wolfe without Shoemaker or Eschelman.
Ah, I see. Z had listed her lineage as 'Wolfe/Gunther' on his site, so I was wondering.
Interesting, if I ever look into A.'.A.'. down the line I'll bear it in mind. I know there are Rodney O and Rovelli initiates here, but I realised both were worth keeping away from.
Unfortunate how many lineages seem to have gone to shit. I guess something similar must happen in Indian lineages as well (something westerners don't think about when they go off seeking a guru over there)
>>403641
Fuck, I'd say the 'bad' lineages of India are all better than the bottom tier of A.'.A.'.
A part of the problem is that AC didn't leave any instruments of succession, which means anyone with enough signed grade papers can start claiming independent lineage.
Besides, I've got just about every last bit of A.'.A.'./Thelema material in the library. Just work it from there.
>>403409
>>403616
What is considered standard Enochian? There seem to be several occult groups claiming that theirs is the correct Enochian.
Also, fee free to join us here: >>>/int/52068027
what do you niggers think of chaos magic and chaos magicians?
>>403736
If the entirety of your practice is drawing squiggly lines and hoping really hard you should just give up now.
>>403756
isn't that the same as every other practice, aside for adding some theological bullshit ontop of "trying very hard"?
>>403788
If you already know why are you asking?
>>403796
>Buddha.webmd
>>403719
There is no standard unless you wanna invent a time machine and go back to IPA transcription on the spoken words. Any monolithic group claiming otherwise is suspect.
>>403736
It's fine.
>>403788
>>403798
What a lot of starting practitioners don't catch about CM is that it's way more usefully built to break down existing systems and symbol sets than it is building them up out of a shaky foundation.
Get some good grounding in any given number of magical systems THEN go to Chaos Magic to deconstruct them THEN go back to the old practices to see if CM shaved off anything that should really be back in the system THEN take those insights with you int specializations X, Y, or Z.
>>403818
>
Get some good grounding in any given number of magical systems THEN go to Chaos Magic to deconstruct them THEN go back to the old practices to see if CM shaved off anything that should really be back in the system THEN take those insights with you int specializations X, Y, or Z.
AKA, 'if you want to become a dabbler, first become an expert'
>>403828
>AKA, 'if you want to become a dabbler, first become an expert'
More or less.
Otherwise you run the risk of being one of the meme magic contingent on /pol/ or one of the dudes ranting about Pleiadian light chariots on Ultraculture's comments.
Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, K- a while back you were asking for my rising and birth signs, what were you looking to figure out?
Incidentally, I realised earlier that Cochrane's FFF salutation on letters (Flags, Flax & Fodder) equates to 666, given that F is the 6th letter of the alphabet. Not certain if that was intentional on his part or not.
Had an interesting experience today- woke up to some facebook notification about a christmas market here, decided to go. Read some of AC And The Hidden God on the bus into the city - had just finished the bit where grant talks about animal representations in sex magic. Got to the market to discover a stall with a couple of small wooden boxes with metal animals on top...I had figured this was me being 'led' to the Dragon Vessel, though the boxes were too flimsy to have done the job. Still, interesting. I'm a bit conscious of the fact that I only have a few days to get the next vessel, but I can always pick up another one from the same place as I got the Marriage Vessel.
AC and the Hidden God is interesting so far, taking everything with a pinch of salt because it's Grant, but enjoying it nonetheless
>>405459
>Oh yeah, I forgot to ask, K- a while back you were asking for my rising and birth signs, what were you looking to figure out?
I was trying to see if one of us could take up elemental stations for the other if we'd decided to go through with truly joint work but as mentioned you're too far out from my location for it to be seriously workable.
RE: Being led -
I had an instance of automatic drawing a few months back that I'd decided to use for firing the clay vessel.
I'm having way more luck finding bits and pieces of fey metal laid out at my feet. Found a small square metal plate I'm sure will be great for sigil work once it's in and out of the fire.
>>405476
I was trying to see if one of us could take up elemental stations for the other if we'd decided to go through with truly joint work but as mentioned you're too far out from my location for it to be seriously workable.
Aah, that makes sense. The requirement for a quadrigen is kind of a pain, though at least Chumbley made the system flexible enough that it can be done solo.
Haven't looked for bits of metal yet, but I'll keep an eye out- I was considering using coins.
Incidentally, have you started binding the vessel in cloth? I'm fairly sure it's a requirement but I can't seem to find the instruction that says so.
>>405497
Already have a stack of coins ready too.
Got it some black cloth with the fey metal. Really I'm just practicing things and transcribing.
Found where 161 comes from; the full list of names of mantic power for Hallowing the Kingdom's intermediate practice. About 1/3rd done with doing a transcription of the ritual into my operative records with other ritual materials.
Someone recommend me a good Yoga routine for a beginner. Should In just do stuff from youtube 30 minute Yoga intro videos or what?
>>405687
Sit in half lotus with back against the wall to help train posture.
For 10-20 minutes, practice focusing *entirely* on manual breathing. Play with your breath count. If your mind wanders, don't dog yourself. Let the though pass through your head without forcefully dismissing it or encouraging it.
You can do an intro yoga vid on YT but those really tend to be fitness oriented - I have a hard time concentrating if you've got a dude narrating over everything.
Once you've got a handle on breathing and keeping a clear mind move on to holding static objects in your minds eye. A book, candle, or more traditionally, a tattva.
Once you feel like you've got a good handle on things, Hathayoga, or Shiva Samhita should be able to guide you further.
>>405519
Have you Read Dick's Exegesis? Do you think his experience maps onto one of the visions that Crowley atributes to each sephira?
>>405726
I can't seem to sit in any cross-legged posture without messing with my knee, and my hips are already loose as heck. Any notion of what the trouble might be?
>When the Great Magical Power (Kundalini) is roused to activity, it energizes the chakras in the body of the Scarlet Woman, generating vibrations that influence the chemical
composition of her glandular secretions. After appropriating the amrit ("nectar") precipitated at any given chakra, these vibrations inform the fluids which flow from the genital outlet.
I wonder if Grant's statement here would stand up in a laboratory test- surely the secretion should be chemically different from normal, which would be evident if its composition was analysed.
It'd be an interesting way to validate or reject the theory on this
>>405729
Yes.
No, though I do think the man had a genuine theophany.
Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath actually appears to map to the sephira, though.
That said, I've not sat with PKD and a copy of 777/Complete Magician's Tables so I can't say anything with complete certainty.
>>405740
The sit without being cross-legged.
The issue's probably either lack of flexibility or long standing aggravated injury. Do what you can to get into a slightly uncomfortable asana but for the love of God don't injure yourself.
>>405742
Taste your fluids. Less expensive than a spectroanalysis. I feel that experimental testing would validate KG's assumption here, and does explain varying psychoactive properties of kala given in the old texts. But, try to wander into a well controlled lab sporting a copy of Ken Grant and see how far it'll get ya.
Guess I'll bump the thread a bit before I run off to do more transcriptions. Surprised it's lasted this long without our Christfriends keeping it bumped with denunciations.
>read the account of Crowley and Leah Hirsig's shit
>see Leah Hirsig
Kek
I had wondered when the priestesses used in Thelema stopped being hot. Turns out they were never hot
>>405929
IIRC that was a goodly number of years after she fucked off back to Australia to teach violin and be a good Catholic girl.
I got a couple photos of her in her prime (and no it's not her with the brandings after the Equinox ceremony) and she doesn't look bad at all - just goes to show how hard a few years of intense drug use can age you.
If you've not been to a Gnostic Mass with an attractive priestess, I'm sorry. If you've not been to a Mass of the Holy Ghost with an attractive priestess I'm doubly sorry.
>>405519
>Got it some black cloth with the fey metal. Really I'm just practicing things and transcribing.
Actually, I just read back through the Marriage Vessel section. It's cool, we just need to wrap it in black cloth- I had thought it needed to be wrapped in strips of cloth daily, for some reason.
I'll need to procure some cloth asap. Shouldn't be too hard.
The Declaration is going to be a pain in the ass to learn, but it looks like the most difficult bit of oration of the whole lot. We'll see how it goes.
>>405958
The alchemical exorcism is tripping me up too. I've already had to change a few minor words here and there to make the oration not sound like garbage coming out of my American accet (gotta do the same with AC sometimes too).
ALSO, I wouldn't worry too much about reading from a script. I think in Hu or Sa it mentions having a copy of the script on hand for burning toward the end of the rite. It seems Uncle Andy understood that his rites were fuckhuge and rehearsal might be down to the very minute for people who aren't utter neets.
>>405994
Yeah black tshirts were one idea I had. Should have done it today, actually, but fuck it, I'll make time during the week. Art shops usually sell that kind of cloth anyway, easy.
>>405971
I'll do the best I can with it from the point of view of really getting to grips with the material- I find going through it that slowly and internalising it really helps.
That said, I think certain elements will be fine with a script. The Assumption of the First-Born might be better learned off, though.
Right, enough Grant, I need to transcribe
>>406006
Best if luck, I'll need to caffeinate more before I get rolling on that myself. I'll try to send notes out to you past Turnskin this week.
