Could the split have been avoided? Why didn't Muhammad name a successor (or did he)?
What would it take to get these guys to stop fighting?
All religions, given enough time, will develop a schism of some sort. Even if the Shiite-Sunni split didn't happen, there would have been another split of some time that resulted in the two splinter groups hating the other.
Islam never developed an institution like the Catholic Church (which itself had to continuously deal with various heresies).
That, combined with how large the first Islamic empire got, would make some form of religious fracturing inevitable
What i want to know is what the hell happened to Fatimah
she just up and dies soon after the split 'happened' and i cant find out what kills her she was like 28
Muhammed is stated even in Sunni hadith to have begged Abu Bakr for someone to dictate his successor to and been denied it. It's fairly clear Ali was meant to be Muhammed's successor in both sect's version of events, Sunnis putting a positive spin on how Umar and Abu Bakr went to conspire to take over leadership while Ali mourned and dealt with the funeral
>>23559
According to the historical records, she was always sickly and pale.
Someone like that doesn't last long in a harsh world that hasn't discovered penicillin or MayoClinic yet.
>>23443
>Could the split have been avoided?
Nope. Muhammad decided on a decidedly Alexander approach and just made as big of a blob he could get in a lifetime and go from there. Naturally leads to splits, especially when its on religious lines. New religious lines.
>What would it take to get these guys to stop fighting?
See Europe? Not many protestants, catholics, and orthodox killing each other nowadays. Basically you'd need to stabilize the Islamic world and give them better things to think about.
Who /imamali/ here?
Could have been avoided, but it would have had to have been brutal, quick, and clandestine. Assassinate Ali and claim it to be an accident and proclaim him as a Martyr.
>>23589
they stopped killing each other when they could finally into nation states
the moose limbs tried that with pan-arabism and shit went south incredibly hard so they're sliding back into religious and tribal identity to delineate who to stare daggers at
>>23589
>Muhammad decided on a decidedly Alexander approach and just made as big of a blob he could get in a lifetime and go from there
>tfw you realise that blobbing predates Paradox games
>>23559
>Umar came to the house of Fatima and said: "O' Daughter of the Prophet of God! I swear by God that we love no one more than your father, and after him we love no one more than you. Yet I swear by God that that won't stop me from gathering these people and commanding them to burn this house down"
>Umar kicked Fatima's stomach on the day of allegiance until she miscarried and he yelled: "Burn her house and whoever is in it" and in it were Ali, Fatima, al-Hasan and al-Husayn.
>They attacked [Ali], burned his door and took him out by force and pressed [Fatima] against the door until she miscarried Muhsin.
Not any kinda muslim but it seems pretty obvious Sunnis have been the ones airbrushing Trotsky out of photos since the start
>>23667
>assassinate Ali
Are you retarded? The whole Shia-Sunni conflict got kicked off when Uthman (the 3rd caliph) was assassinated.
>>23667
Umar and Abu Bakr are the ones who disrupted stable succession in the first place. If it had passed straight to son in law instead of father in law, it could well have laid down a more conventional, stable monarchic succession than the mess that happened
>>23976
Dynastic succession from father to son was uncommon in Arabian custom at that time.
It also went against everything Muhammad preached.
It was the Ummayyads, starting with Muawiya, that began the tradition of dynastic succession from father to son.
>>23443
There are some tales that he wanted to.
But was convinced otherwise by some of his followers.
>What would it take to get these guys to stop fighting?
Remove all religious leaders.
Shi'ite / sunni war escalated in the last 10 years, after it was subdued in 1920.
>>23471
>>23507
You need to do more research.
>>23581
While this is true, Ali himself wasn't interested in it, as he was once asked why didn't he claimed it he responded with "It's something others wanted and others were generous to give it".
>>23589
Stopping sex segregation is a good move.
>>23719
There are some tales that claim the whole shia/sunni conflict was arragened by abu sufian.
>>23976
Not really the issue started with Umar who was very strict to Quraish, and Uthman who was lenient with them.
It's hilarious watching non Muslims and a few stupid and misguided Muslims argue about dynasties when that was never the point of what Muhammad wanted to do.
He was concerned with the survival of Islam as a religion and ideology, not with dynasties or succession
>>23443
Hadith of the Pond (which is considered authentic by both Shia and Sunni) sort of says Ali is the successor, although Sunnis don't accept this interpretation. Shias consider Sunni to be retarded for not seeing this.
Read Hadith of the Pond, I guess.
>>25992
>While this is true, Ali himself wasn't interested in it, as he was once asked why didn't he claimed it he responded with "It's something others wanted and others were generous to give it".
The sign of a great leader is that he doesn't want the job.
>>27412
so are you liek an Ibadi
>>27561
I'm Sunni
I just think no one has the remotest clue about what actually happened and why
>>28376
How can Sunnis say Shia are the bigger heretics?
> Shia heresy: praising Ali a little too much
> Sunni heresy: killing random people and forcing conversion
