Why is African history so underrepresented in the field?
>>230383
>tin pot dictator overthrows another tin pot dictator
>repeat
gee, I wonder
It probably isn't in Africa.
>>230392
JUST
Bad recordkeeping? No idea really, maybe if we had more historical data.
>>230403
FUCKED
>>230415
PARIS
go back to /pol/
>>230421
STREETS
>>230422
/pol/ doesn't know either, and this is the history board so I thought I'd ask here.
Lack of homogeneous language with many many different cultures and splinters throughout the continent.
They just didn't write much down, with most of their legends being oral.
>>230404
I've read somewhere that for a long time African oral histories were largely accurate, but for so long historians were dismissive of oral accounts so much of the traditions of oral history keeping was not recorded or disregarded and lost over time.
>>230432
Um, I'm the OP.
>>230383
Sub-Saharan Africa does jack shit for most of known history.
>>230437
>oral histories were largely accurate
Literalmente imposible.
I don't think they even know how to write lel also, their history is pretty minor
>>230461
even if the oral historians had to be vetted in a long schooling process being tested for up to 20 years by the elders who had gone through the same process in order to become a griot?
>Be African
>Get enslaved
>>230434
Very few written sources, mostly accounts from foreigners. No african tradition of studying history.
what the hell, I tought we were winning the war for the board redditors!!!
>this relentless /pol/-posting
there's a board for this, if you have nothing worthwhile to say, just shut up
Because you need to know how to write to keep records.
Also because mud huts tend to not leave ruins for archaeologists to find.
>>230531
>mud huts
>>230536
If Ethiopian civilization was so great, why did it fall to the likes of Italy?
>>230522
>an inferior race that didnt properly develop agriculture
"They're" (It matters here what you consider african, because egyptians for example were peerless at agriculture) not inferior because of this, they simply didn't need to rely on agriculture to survive.
Because Africans left behind very little written history, and in addition didn't have much history anyways since most of africa was tribal land without civilization
>>230522
It doesn't matter how correct you are, being un-PC warrants a "go back to pol meanie" response
>>230544
It didnt
>>230544
Italy had better weapons, and more military might. That's like saying "How did the Romans fall to barabarians if Rome was so great?"
>>230536
Ethiopia isn't sub saharan. I thought we were over that senpai
>>230542
>No written sources
>links to oral tradition
;)
>>230544
Because the second time around, Italy brought more men along with a fully modernized military.
And poison gas. They brought that too.
>>230569
just proving you don't actually need to have written records to keep a historical narrative.
>>230550
It's quite obvious i'm referring to Sub Saharan Africans, not Egyptians and their descendents.
Nearly all peoples didn't need agriculture to survive, it was developed as a means to allow the diversification of labour. If a society can't develop this, obviously something is wrong with
>the land
>the people
>the culture
And if they don't move in the case of A, change in the case of C, than it is probably B.
>>230383
Because their impact on world affairs and our way of life was so immense
>>230434
The current teacher-student "genealogy" is traceable to European scholars from many hundreds of years ago. And Africa has very little written historian tradition.
>>230579
Well, academic history is quite literally based on written records. This is why it's absent in the field.
>>230597
you see anon africans are an inferior race the jews are behind everything and my goal is to spread my ideology to every white neckbeard on the internet
>>230597
Italy had better weapons because they had trade connections with other nations, which lead to dissemination of information, which helped to develop it. I'm not arguing that Italy is inferor to Ethiopia (or vice versa) just that many African nations were there too. There, and they thrived.
>>230434
Because there really isn't much to tell. Not many Sub Saharans developed a system of writing, so it's really just small things like spiritual aspects, some stories, by that's about it.
>>230434
Also, /his/ was a /pol/ brain child, what did you expect.
>>230607
This.
>>230610
So by simply posing a question I'm spreading ideology? You certainly don't have the mindset of a historian.
Also nice strawman le redditour
Why is it bad if a nation is underdeveloped?
>>230630
Because might = right
>>230634
What about some stupid little tribes on some remote island that still live in the stone age. Who cares whether they're underdeveloped? Certainly not them. The problem lies in the contact between societies, which Europeans initiated.
>>230607
but why tho? If there is information that could be obtained about a certain region or subject what is the difference between it being written down and being dictated?
>>230630
i don't know bud.
you tell me why it's bad if a nation never develops vaccines or any other technological advancements.
>>230630
Developed nations will kick the shit out of you, then bring you health programs and education that you can't possibly understand.
>>230642
>Who cares whether they're underdeveloped? Certainly not them.
your enemies do.
the world isn't some liberal fantasy that you think it is.
>>230646
Written records (if they can be accurately dated) give a more or less precise picture of the time they come from, EVEN IF the actual content of the record isn't true, it still contains information.
Oral records are impossible to date accurately, among other problems of reliability, later additions and substractions etc.
>>230642
The differences is how inconsequential a small island is compared to an entire fucking continent. That being said, if you've never been to what was once called the Spanish Main, you'll never know why staying there seemed like an awesome thing.
>>230646
How do you prove an oral tradition as true? Take Boogamooga's word that he's telling the truth?
WE WEZZ KINGS ENN SHEIIIIIT
Sub-saharan africa was cut off by its desert stopping any worthwhile development until whitey came along. Africa never evolved and stayed roughly in its hunter gatherer state. African history is basically the same thing every century but different names for the spear chuckers. This isn't some nazi ideology but fact. History isn't equal
>>230655
>I MUST BE LIBERAL SINCE WE ARE ON OPPOSITE SIDES OF A DISCUSSION
Good bogeyman friend.
You have said why it is unfavourable to be underdeveloped. These seem to be realpolitik concerns, I get it, totally. No military technology = no way to defend yourself.
If it's really such a rational, pragmatic argumentation, then what do you make of the CONSTANT whining about niggers here, niggers there, niggers are so dumb bla bla? What is the point?
>>230667
I'm not saying oral histories are perfect; in fact I think they are somewhat inaccurate but depending on the cultural value a society places on keeping their histories and humanities as accurate as possible, why not rely on the only account these people have. That's like not teaching the Odyssey because the Greeks didn't write the epic down and the only written interpretation was written years after the original story came about.
>>230691
Because people want to bring those people into civilized lands
>>230689
If Boogamooga was from a culture in which he was instructed for 20 years to tell the tribe/clan/kingdom/whatever's story accurately like it was told to his father and his father and so forth why not?
>>230690
>Africans are still in a hunter-gatherer state.
lol
There are many developing sub-saharan economies, most of all Nigeria but also Ghana for example. Along with South Africa.
Lack of written records. Not being "an inferior race". What the fuck, /his/.
>>230700
A tiny, tiny fraction of the population wants this. Most people want to ARRANGE themselves with them rather than consider some barbaric daydream genocidal plans.
>>230704
Psychology proves that memory isn't reliable especially after long periods of time
>>230690
>all Africa basically stayed hunter-gatherers
You are so hilariously wrong.
>wit is Zulu EMPIRE?
>>230713
How is halting immigration barbaric daydream genocide? I don't think they should be killed, just kept there or sent back.
>>230693
Well, you're not wrong. I'll be happy to see your publications about oral histories of Africa in a few years time
>>230730
that actually is something I would want to do in my lifetime. I don't really have a plan or a jumping off point..
>>230707
All of which experienced some amount of colonialism. The country once called Rhodesia is begging for whites to come back.
>>230728
I don't mean halting immigration, although that is somewhat of a utopia aswell. Everybody wants that. It#s time to realize that multiculturalism is simply a political insult thrown around like neoliberal or postmodern. Maybe 5 out of a 100 european politicians would identify with it.
>>230690
BUT WHITEYZ TOLD US DA' ALL MEN ARE KREATED EQUAL MODAFUKA
>>230691
They aren't able to integrate within a more developed society.
There are tribes in africa that have no concept of distance, how are they supposed to help in any way at all.
They ask for us to provide for them for free then they multiply and now there's 3 times the mouths to feed.
When we can't provide for them they blame everyone else for it as they starve to death since they never learned how to farm very well in the first place after being isolated for thousands of years.
>>230711
Like I said earlier, this place is largely /pol/'s brain child. Moot refused to make it for the longest time, saying it would be /pol/ with dates.
This thread is bad.
>>230742
Not everyone, mass amounts of people are against that now.
The entire academic and political left (and some right) establishments are also multicultural.
There is no real reason to accept multiculturalism
>>230737
Africans do have history. Why wouldn't they?
Because you don't like it? Even if they lived in huts for the last 1000 years and fought among themselves, that's still history.
>>230741
>Rhodesia
Meme-country ran by boers who were little better than zulus. Every african country experienced colonialism and is still experiencing it today.
Either way, african colonialism, if anything, smashed the existing social structures, gave ownership of the resources to small elites or the colonial power and did very little if anything for the native population. It can't be credited with doing anything for 21st century africa.
>>230757
We could use the /tg/ method, contain all the shitposting to one thread.
>>230383
This thread shows exactly why. Certain people just want to live in an ideological fog, they don't care about history or learning in general. They don't want to have to think.
>>230757
>Moot refused to make it for the longest time, saying it would be /pol/ with dates.
He's sorta right but the board is fine most of the time.
It's just that whenever we discuss Islam,Africa,Egypt or WW2 that shitstorms happens.
>>230707
Sorry i meant in the past tense creation-1800s/1900s. Also why do you think South Africa is Africans second biggest economy and Nigeria too. Do you think they would've got to that point without European practically influencing everything about their nations and bringing industrial and medical technologies advancing them
>Pic related Zimbabwe, just before it got rid of its whites
You only have to look at its architecture to see what progress black rule does. Everythings from the 70s and eroding along with the economy and life expectancy
>>230746
You're on the wrong board. If you want to be taken seriously, start learning to articulate yourself like the the other guy. I know it's "irony". At least he stated that he thinks africans are inferior in a civilized way.
>>230776
Salisbury now
>>230763
>The entire academic and political left (and some right) establishments are also multicultural.
Sources?
>>230773
Well, from what I've seen it's marginally better. There was a pretty good thread about Islam earlier today. I don't know why this thread turned to shit.
>>230690
>Sub-saharan africa was cut off by its desert
>>230727
>Zulu
A short lived small nation with spear chuckers that eventually got defeated by Europeans. Thank you for proving my point
>>230568
>Ethiopia isn't sub saharan.
>>230797
Ethiopia? Ghana?
>>230785
If we were to take a survey of opinions of academics we'd find the majority would be in favour of multiculturalism.
>>230767
Colonialism build mines, factories, railways and etc.
The former colonial authorities created democratic institutions and as what happened in the Congo they fell apart right away
Africans don't have the intellectual ability to handle such advanced systems and as a result the systems collapse. Like giving a dog the controls to an airplane.
>>230597
Because by the time of the Second Italian-Abyssinian War, all the land around them had been claimed by other European powers?
Italy was rich and could afford all the new toys, and the ability to deploy them in force. Ethiopia had modern small arms and not much else. They certainly couldn't afford poison gas.
>>230797
But they weren't hunter-gatherers as you claimed, you fucking dolt.
They had agriculture and herded cattle.
>>230800
Culturally, kid.
>>230767
Are you fucking kidding me? The Boers were the only people there who knew a thing about infrastructure and production, which is why they want them back so badly.
Seriously though, compare South Africa and other heavily European influenced countries and compare it to Sudan and Somalia. The more influence, the better off they were.
>>230465
KINGS'NSHIT
>>230815
What makes them culturally not sub-saharan?
>>230803
No, its like giving a man who worked in the coal mines the controls to an airplane.
Yes, its true that colonial powers built mines factories and railways. They also forced the native populations to work in those facilities with as little institutions of learning provided to keep them uneducated thus keeping a cycle of uneducated peoples ready for manual labor
>>230824
You mean besides their ancient monarchy and Christianization?
>>230840
How do either of those make them "not culturally sub-saharan"?
>>230801
>Ethiopia
Had arab and Egyptian influences
>Ghana
same as the rest of africa. Nothing of note
>>230810
Wow fuck me, they were able to keep a few cows in an enclosed space. Someone get them a gold medal.
>pic related what whites were doing at the same time, same place
>>230819
The centre of the city is relatively unchanged, architecturally and mostly falling apart
>>230835
That's not the case at all
Katanga was a part of the Congo that kept whites there and was happy to work with them.
The Africans in the Congo after ruining everything they had, attacked them. Raping, murdering and torturing every white and black person in Katanga.
Now Katanga is a desolate part of an even more desolate country.
>>230852
Because they were on the other side of the fucking continent. They had constant contact with Europe and the Arabs, so they had a completely different culture that developed in a completely different environment.
>>230803
Multiculturalism was taken as a political policy, the mistake in that is that they took all cultures, religions and ways of living under the same umbrella disguising it as universal human rights. The problem is that they ignored all differences and caused cultural conflicts like all the shit we're seeing today.
I reccomend Gilberto Gimenez's take on multiculturalism, transculturalism and interculturalism.
>>230852
You should really redefine what Culture means to you
Look at this barren, uncivilized wasteland.
>>230800
What you're doing is posting is akin to posting a map of Russia and then claiming they're "Northern European".
>>230855
>Wow fuck me, they were able to keep a few cows in an enclosed space. Someone get them a gold medal.
>pic related what whites were doing at the same time, same place
Moving goalposts, you claimed that Africans were and still are hunter gatherers. The Zulu, among other sub-saharan Civilizations, were not hunter-gatherers by definition as they had agriculture.
>Had arab and Egyptian influences
So what? Europe had Arab and Egyptian influences too. Every culture and civilization is influenced by earlier cultures and civilizations.
>>230383
Because it was only recently that people actually gave a shit about the history and didn't write it off as "niggers" or get interest.
One woman who did research on Great Zimbabwe back then had to deal with loser spergs who kept on sending her letters about shitty conspiracy theories to the point she has a stack of letters that she never reads that kept growing. She wasn't even egalitarian or equal rights, she just did her work and found out some cool stuff.
>>230857
You're seriously arguing that Africans in the Congo were as well educated as any of the whites that were there to govern the colony and to be in charge of any of the facilities put in place? The reason why everything was fucked after independence was anybody that had an education and who could lead the country in a good direction was either overthrown by western nations who had no interest in seeing a black nation thrive or they were overthrown by some idiot nigger with an army at his disposal.
>>230865
>Because they were on the other side of the fucking continent.
Sub-Saharan Africa is more than West Africa
>They had constant contact with Europe and the Arabs
And West Africa had constant contact with Berbers
>>230872
Their culture was created by people living in Sub-Saharan Africa, so their culture is Sub-Saharan
>>230865
They are sub-shaharan dumbass.
Every single shit that uses SSA Ethiopia is in it.
>>230879
Do you want me to go through each african sub group and define weather or not they're hunter gathers our not before i can say all africans were hunter gathers? Its irrelevant anyway compared to their competition
>So what? Europe had Arab and Egyptian influences too. Every culture and civilization is influenced by earlier cultures and civilizations.
Arab and Egyptian culture was vastly superior meaning its responsible for them not (all) being spear chuckers
>>230890
He's also ignoring that Katanga was the location of a Belgian-backed breakaway. It's desolate now because they fought a goddamn civil war over it, not because the Congolese just suddenly went "OOGA BOOGA ME HATE CIVILIZATION ME BURN MOST PRODUCTIVE REGION OF COUNTRY".
>>230383
because we learn history that is relevant to today
>>230383
>Look mom, I posted it again!
Nice Trojan horse thread, faggot.
First, a definition: "civilization", as classically defined, simply means a society that possesses both stable urban centers and a true writing system.
Now, some starting points:
1. Civilization only ever independently developed in two places: Mesopotamia and Mesoamerica.
2. Europe NEVER independently developed writing or civilization. ALL European written languages are the direct descendants of Levantine writing systems.
3. The development of civilization directly jives with contact dates with previous civilizations. This is why South-Eastern Europe developed civilization well before Northern Europe. Rome had been civilized for ~800 years before the first Northern Celtic/Germanics EVER put pen to paper. Large swaths of Northern Europe were uncivilized until the 13th century A.D.
CONT.
>>230857
Katanga was only supported because Belgian companies backed and pretty much owned that country since it's leader was a total pawn and "idiot nigger". Katanga itself was only known because of it's resources in which Belgium wanted so it supported the split.
>>230913
Now, in terms of independently developing civilization, Sub-Saharan Africa was at a series of disadvantages, namely:
1. A smaller population (compared to Europe, East Asia, South Asia, etc.) and thus much lower population density in an area roughly two times the size of the United States. Sub-Saharan Africa didn't catch up to Europe in terms of population until about 2000 A.D.
2. A desert roughly the size of the United States separating most of Sub-Saharan Africa from the Levant, the "Cradle of Civilization". By contrast, there was no large geographic separation between Europe and the Levant.
3. Large plains interspersed with jungles, which made interior, far-reaching navigation largely impracticable until European explorers arrived in the 19th century.
CONT.
>>230855
You dont seem to undestand that its more complicated than "cow hurdling" Its understanding your enviorment and learing to classify it in such a way that generations can use the same techniques. I can asure you that any of those "whites" in Cape Town could not even grasp the amount of data one Zulu native is able to collect in one single walk among their planes. If you think that the progress of man is a 1-way path than you need to read more epistemology on the evolution of man, most people in this thread need it.
>>230913
>>230920
Just to make that point clear, for ALL OF RECORDED HUMAN HISTORY UNTIL 15 YEARS AGO, Sub-Saharan Africa had fewer people than Europe. Nonetheless, it has always been more diverse in terms of genetics and ethno-linguistics.
Put simply, having a small but extremely diverse population on a huge continent is not very conducive to the INDEPENDENT development of civilization. Sadly, this diversity greatly assisted Europeans in divide and conquer tactics during the colonial era and some of those policies resulted directly in genocide (as in Rwanda and Burundi). Many of these issues still plague much of Sub-Saharan Africa today and the politicization of ethnicity (i.e. "if you're part of ethnic group A, you vote for party A or you're a traitor!") is a huge problem today and directly results in massive amounts of corruption.
>muh natural resources
Many of the "natural resources that should have magically thrust civilization and wealth upon the blacks" simply weren't valuable or even known until the 19th century or beyond. I've literally seen /pol/sters cite Uranium and diamonds as would-be sources for African pre-colonial wealth. /pol/ seems to be patently unaware that most precious metals were largely disdained until Arab or European contact.
CONT.
>>230913
>>230920
>>230928
In regards to IQ, if you subscribe to the tautological reasoning that intelligence is "what ever IQ tests measure", then there's only a 50-70 year gap between black Africans and white Europeans. Owing to the Flynn Effect, the average IQ of unselected Finnish, Danish, and American soldiers (the former two tested with a highly g-loaded test (Raven's Matrices)) shows that Europeans in the early-mid 20th century would test around 80-85 today. And even if you reject the Flynn effect's quasi-egalitarian implications (which many well-versed intelligence researchers do, as the consistency of the gap remains relatively stable), Egypt, which currently has an average IQ of ~81, was civilized for ~3,500 years before the first NORTHERN European (~100) put pen to paper.
Barbados (~83), a black country, is one of the least corrupt and best managed countries in the Americas and currently has a high income and a high human development index (occasionally venturing into "Very High"/"Developed"). The British managed to foster a civilized culture among the descendants of slaves who were by no means selected for their intelligence. So even if there is a permanent, irredeemable gap, culture is certainly a deciding factor in the success of a society. For reference, the average IQ in Sub-Saharan Africa is ~80 (Wicherts et al, 2010).
That being said, if we look at basic societal indicators such as life expectancy, literacy rates, years of education, maternal mortality, number of universities, road density, average income, etc. almost all of Sub-Saharan Africa is at a level that Europeans reached in the early-mid 20th century, which is to say that there are plenty of people still alive when most of Europe was shittier than Africa today. Plus, Sub-Saharan African countries currently have amongst the highest growth rates on Earth and there are far fewer civil wars and violent conflict than there were just 20 years ago.
CONT.
>>230852
They literally speak a semitic language, whorshipped semitic gods before adopting christianity (which is another semitic religion btw) and historically had more cultural interchange with arabia than any african region.
>>230913
>>230920
>>230928
>>230932
>muh headstart
When humans were migrating out of Africa 60-90kya, there were generally no more than 25,000 people on Earth at any given time. In other words, more people probably go to your local University than there were humans on the entire globe.
In conclusion, /pol/, people don't call you "ignorant" just because you hurt their feelgoods. They call you ignorant because you're genuinely unaware of human history.
oh shit /pol/ woke up the commie /lit/ users
this thread is gettin gud
Only African kingdom I can think of that gets mentioned in history are those kingdoms that typically sprung up in Ethiopia, like Axum/Aksum.
Seriously this thread needs to relocate
>>>/pol/
if yall wanna circle jerk about how "muh aryan race" is superior to the negros do it where you are supposed to do it
>>230906
>Do you want me to go through each african sub group and define weather or not they're hunter gathers our not before i can say all africans were hunter gathers?
How about instead you just say that not all of Sub-Saharan Africa was still in the hunter-gather state when that's clearly wrong?
>Arab and Egyptian culture was vastly superior meaning its responsible for them not (all) being spear chuckers
If you want to be that way, Europe isn't any different. Europe would still be living in mudhuts and chucking spears if civilization hadn't spread to them from Mesopotamia and Egypt
>>230947
You should probably invest in reading history books, then.
>>230960
>>230960
Most of the ones I read focus on Europe or Asia. Sorry for my ignorance.
>>230962
>>230953
Historically, everyone is superior to blacks.
It's just fact.
>>230966
https://archive.org/details/greatbeninitscus00roth
Here's an interesting book from the early 20th century about the Benin empire.
>>230933
Ethiopia isn't SS?
Now I've heard everything.
>>230383
Because it didn't really impact the world we live in today.
>>230969
>An indigenous Ife sculpture. Made prior to any outside contact.
>>230977
Thanks, I'll read it later.
>>230933
>They literally speak a semitic language
So? France speaks a Latin language, does that make them culturally Roman?
>whorshipped semitic gods before adopting christianity (which is another semitic religion btw)
So then European culture isn't European, Persian culture isn't Persian, Pakistani culture isn't Indian, and Indonesian culture isn't Indonesian, because the majority religion in all of those countries is a Semitic religion?
>>230992
You mean interactions with other outsiders or by itself?
>>230383
On the contrary North african history is amply represented. Nobody cares about the subsaharans because they were useless and didn't accomplish shit throughout history. They never even invented the fucking wheel
>>230383
Because nobody really cares about it.
gotta have interest to have representation
>>230999
In the New World I forgot which civilization did it but they invented the wheel independently but only used it on toys.
In SSA Somalia and Ethiopia used it but the rest barely until the Europeans came.
>>230998
The first, we live in the western world, while their resources were useful in building it their history is hardly necessary to understand our world or overarching culture.
>>230997
>does that make them culturally Roman?
Yes all fucking europe and specially latins are a cultural descendant of Rome?
>So then European culture isn't European, Persian culture isn't Persian, Pakistani culture isn't Indian, and Indonesian culture isn't Indonesian, because the majority religion in all of those countries is a Semitic religion?
Universalist monotheistic religions are not the same as national/cultural polytheistic beliefs.
The "which is another semitic religion" thing was a pun, in case you didn't notice it even with the relaxed tone of the sentence.
>>230752
>conqure entire continent
>force our way of life on them
>deny them rulership
>handle all the bureaucracy/organization
>never teach them how to actually run society our way
>wait a few generations make them accustomed to our way of life/dependant on it
>oh hey guys we dont care about you anymore so cya, leave and create a huge power vacum
>carve up their land with random ass borders drawn by people who hade never even been to africa
>they still have no idea how to run their countries our way/how to handle all that bureaucracy/organization needed, because we never tougth them/even let them try
>perplexed why it turned into a shithole
>well it cant be our fault!
>>230971
no its not a fact its a objective statement made from incomplete knowledge and a misinformed mind
>>230997
>France speaks a Latin language, does that make them culturally Roman
Are you implying they aren't?
>>231025
>oh hey guys we dont care about you anymore
That's not how that went at all, nationalist and afroliberation movements sprung up all over the place. To act like colonial powers just up and left because they got bored or took everything they could is just dishonest.
>>230752
>There are tribes in africa that have no concept of distance, how are they supposed to help in any way at all.
Which ones? You can make shit up but you need to back it. One guy tried to say that Africans had no concept of time by saying one language had no concept of time but then an actual one replied to his post that spoke the language that allegedly had no concept of time and proved him wrong.
>>231049
That is true. They didn't leave because of boredom, it was more like white flight in the U.S. where they were afraid of uprisings.
Egyptology is its own sub-branch of history
>>231049
Nah the powers left because the strain of the war alongside the demands of the colony being to much of a burden since French at the time could not support the colonies to the same degree it could France itself and the social problems that cold result (strife etc).
The colonies were already a drain on resources even with a shoestring budget ruling on the cheap so most left them go barring Portugal.
>>231074
yeah, the worst one.
>>231076
>Nah
yeah, that's literally what happened.
>>231049
Okey its not quite how it went
the second biggest reason for why europeans gave up their colonies is because after ww2 the populations of the colonial powers started saying that they should give up their colonial lands because nazis turned everyone into liberals
the biggest reason was this tho
>>231076
>>231074
Probably because it's so boring most people would rather avoid it unless it's their specific interest.
>>231041
Ok then:
So far, all the evidence the human race has gathered over the years points that blacks were on the bottom tier of the food chain.
>>231104
>because nazis turned everyone into liberals
It was because they used the resources from the colonies to help fight the oppression of Europe but couldn't continue oppressing the people of the colonies because it was very obviously hypocritical and continuing to do so would ultimately end in uprsings and war so GTFO peaceably was preferable to fighting 20 conflicts at once after WW2.
>>230434
You know history implies writing right? That's why. Try posting on /arch/.
There's a fair amount of history when it comes to those that adopted the Arabic alphabet in the middle ages.
>>231107
no so far all evidence points to that they where basically as civilized as the rest of the world given their geographical barriers to the outside world basically they where a few hundred years behind the rest of the world wich wasent that much up untill the renaissance
then the white man came and pillaged and conqured because LOL GUNPOWEDER BISHES
>>231137
Why didn't they have gunpower too if they were equal?
>>230383
cuz we was kangs senpai
>>231149
they was just behind!
yurpeans got a headstart, not fair!
>>230383
inb4 we was kangs, oh wait.
>>231149
if you read my post again you will know exactly why they dident have gunpowder :^)
also i would even go so far and argue that some african kingdoms where more evolved and civilized then other parts of the world at many points in time
incomplete knowledge and your misinformed mind will force you to argue me on this :^)
>>231171
No thanks, I've had enough bait for one thread.
>>231171
What African Kingdoms? and what ways?
pls no shitposterino
>>231149
White man stole their gunpodah and used it against them.
I see mods dropped the ball in less than a month. Cute.
>>231179
>>230873
when every single one of these kingdoms existed there was some where on earth people who where less civilized and less organized
take north america for example when all of these kingdoms existed north america was mainly hunter gatherer societes
At its peak, the Songhai city of Timbuktu became a thriving cultural and commercial center. Arab, Italian, and Jewish merchants all gathered for trade the city even hade a university
>>231171
> dident
> dident
you are right, we aren't created equally, you are obviously mentally inferior.
>>231171
dey dident do nuffin
Alright /his/, we have established why African history is under-represented, now what can be done to reverse this trend? Teach some in schools? What should be taught? Throw money in research? In what field?
>>231149
why didn't the europeans have gunpowder before they stole the idea from the ching chongs?
>>231219
>oh no i cant come up with any proper response
>i know i will point out a spelling error and resort to ad hominem
also i never said we arent created equally as a matter a fact we are
(nice strawman btw to bad you wasted it on a insult)
but what happens to you after you are created and what you decied to fill your mind with will cause one to become "superior/inferior"
>>231246
Why didn't the ching chongs make guns before the yt's?
>>231230
well we could start by combating all the stormfaggotry with reality
>>231230
No one cares about African history for better or worse.
>>230415
If you're into /tg/ at all, there's an upcoming World of Darkness book that deals with both Great Zimbabwe and the Mutapan Empire.
>>231176
>bait implys im trolling
>>231230
In schools the first subject to get cut in budgets asides from arts and some sports is history.
>Teach some in schools?
High school history is already pretty abridged and bare bones so putting African, East European or Asian history is pretty hard as you ultimately want your nations history to be covered just enough.
>What should be taught?
When you reach certain points in history class there should be some coverage of certain events that ends on a cliffhanger of sorts that makes people search out the rest of the history to finish up like a good book. Alternate view points like how the Mexicans at the time saw the events of say the Alamo would be good. Give the students dissenting views on history through different actors.
>Throw money in research?
The African studies have been a small field that is barely known so it's pretty hard to get funding. The fact that you have to compete against other history fields may make it harder.
>>231270
Reality has not been kind to Africa, not now, not ever.
We need to ban threads about Africa.
They're nothing but /pol/ bait with no actual discussion, and no discussion is possible because Africa is too disjointed a region to actually discuss. You can't discuss 'African history' for the same reason you can't discuss 'Asian history'; it's not a real historic region and doesn't have any shared history before colonization.
Discussing individual parts of Africa is fine, just like talking about individual parts of Asia is, but talking about North Africa, West Africa, East Africa, and Southern Africa in the same thread makes as much sense as talking about India, China, and Mexico as if they were one thing.
The only discussion possible is racebait and shitposting. There is no actual history, and so it doesn't belong on this board.
>>230383
>Egypt
>not over represented
>>231313
i can see how you would assume that since you havent actually seen reality
but hey i think its time for you to take another stormpill
oh sorry redpill
>>231256
They did.
>>231256
The chinese made the first firearms. YT just improved on an existing design.
>>231359
I jsut find it funny how Egypt got conquered by Mediterranean Euros as well as western Euros, Arabs, Turks, Blacks.
Only ones missing are an Eastern and Southern Asian power controlling Egypt and it's the most keked nation on Earth.
>>231254
nigga my bad I thought you were the stormweenie who said "African's are inferior to white man therefore they have no history.
>>231137
Are you counting North-Africans in this assessment, or are you going by what most people consider 'African'?
>>230434
How many african historians do you know?
This isn't hard to figure out you fucking moron. They're to busy throwing dirt at one another to actually have time to reflect on those who came before
>>230810
Which Europeans taught them to do effectively
Moron
>>231384
You mean native and non-native?
>>230835
>White mans burden to teach africans how to not be savages as well as build up their lands
I'm sorry what are africans meant to do?
>>231256
The portuguese were the first white men to mess about with the idea of gunsmithing, and those fuckers had all kinds of mixed race genes from the arabs to the berbers to the celts and so on. Mah aryan genetics were just a bunch of scattered kingdoms playing with forks and knives when this was going on.
>>231230
Make an argument for why African history should be taught at all, first.
I just can't understand how it takes precedence over Europe and Asia in the 20th century alone, as learning about both of those massive fields provides students with a good foundation for how the world is today.
>>231264
I said that in jest.
>>231391
You think that agriculture wasn't a thing and herding cattle weren't a thing in pre-European contact Africa?
>>231383
depends
the whole pillage and conqure part was more about sub-saharan africa since north africa has always hade close relations with the rest of the mediterranean lands
but the rest applied to both
>>231410
>didn't read my post
It was Europeans who taught them how to do it more effectively. The zulus population jumped because of white people teaching them how to properly farm and raise animals
>>231417
What exactly points to sub-Saharan Africans being as civilized as the rest of the world?
I just don't see it, really. I know of the inventions made by Europeans, Asians and North Africans, but nothing about the rest of Africa.
>>231382
no problem
but damn you must have misread alot
and here i was thinking you where a stormfaggot
>>231401
This is true. Learning about Asian and western history gives a good foundation for a proper world view in the the western world. An argument has to be made to expand African history studies. Otherwise, it's a specialty field.
>>231397
I'm not saying that blacks weren't at fault for not getting their shit together, but when you take over a place wholesale and decide that you will govern a people you know next to nothing about, you can't just make the natives second class citizens, force them into menial labor and leave them uneducated. That's just a recipe for instability and disaster if ever you leave. (kinda like what happened in Africa and in America)
Why do /pol/shits get all pissy about Africa but don't care about places like Siberia, most of North America, South America outside of the Andes, or Australasia?
>>231404
if you are trying to make fun of /pol/tards sarcasm is a bad way to go when using text
just saying
>>231428
Source?
>>231442
because the /pol/tards point of view is very narrow
>>231442
Because they just hate black people really. They try to be 'rational' and 'scientific' about it but its just trying to support their pre-existing hate. Instead of naturally arriving at this way of thinking they work backwards from the idea "black people are bad"
>>231442
I assume its because its low hanging fruit
>>231471
It would be nice if they were upfront about it at least.
>>231437
African studies could make for a good specialty, I just can't imagine any student actually wanting to take it. In my country, 'classical' history - basically ancient Rome and Greece - got dropped because of a lack of interest.
>>230383
Lack of interest, mostly. The ones that get mentioned the most are the ones that had some sort of decent contact with Europe and West Asia (Mali, Nubia, Abyssinia, etc.)
It's the same for all branches of history. Not many people care about fringe history unless they could tie it into their own understanding of society.
>>231339
We had a ton of great Africa threads when the board first went up.
>>231471
>/pol/ hates black people
>supports Ben Carson second only to Trump
Oh fuck off. /pol/ isn't this eternal boogey man that despises every race other than pure Aryan white.
There's a difference between hating blacks, and hating the neo-tribal culture they have cultivated for themselves in the West. To be honest, I hear plenty of respect given to north Africans such as Hannibal on /pol/, but that doesn't fit in with your narrative. Oh well.
>>231445
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZLGKFWlRzY
This shitty video goes into it a little bit but European crops were introduced into Africa which increased population sizes of african cow herders
>>231520
>implying Hannibal was black
>>231520
>supports Ben Carson second only to Trump
Only because he hates black people too.
>*tired voice* Everyone but me is lazy and violent.
He's the black version of the SJW white guy who goes on and on about how terrible white people are. The only difference is that black people roll their eyes at people like that while /pol/fags eat it up.
>>231520
That's because Carson caters to their political inclinations just like they'd support anyone that would.
Carson himself is a ridiculous man who believes that the the pyr4amids were used to store grain amongst other stupid shit. You on like him because even though he's a stupid nigger he's your stupid nigger.
>>231520
fucking kek
I should hope not even /pol/ is dumb enough to support Ben Carson. The man is an idiot.
You don't have to justify your racism to anonymous users of a Mongolian cobbler imageboard, anon-sama. Racial realism is a thing now for you to subscribe to.
>>231525
Oh fuck, I forgot the Extra Credits fags are doing history now. Not sure how to feel about this.
>>231520
have you actually browsed /pol/?
those faggots hate everything that aint white
and even if its white they migth hate it and claim its not white
/pol/ is basically a bunch of stormfront shilling and people taking out their own inferiority complexes by bitching and hating on everything they can think off
>>231520
Yes, and frequently Obama is referred to as a filthy shitskin mudslime kike nigger because he's a liberal.
It's just tokenism. "Well most niggers are disgusting subhumans, but this one has ideals similar to mine so he's okay!"
>>231363
Ok we better hide before Africa activates the hidden space ships they invented and hid under the pyramids 5000 years ago.
>>230383
>ly. The ones that get mentioned the most are the ones that had some sort of decent contact with Europe and West Asia (Mali, Nubia, Abyssinia, etc.)
>It's the same for all branches of history. Not many people care about fringe history unless they could tie it into their own understanding of society.
>>>
> Anonymous 11/15/15(Sun)14:46:27 No.231516▶
>>>231339
is this /pol/ or /his/
>>231560
I thought their series about the Second Punic War was good.
>>231560
>Indy Neidell keeps telling me it's good.
>I hate EC so much I never bothered to check it out.
>>231432
I'm just getting lost in all of the replies.
>>231149
What the actual fuck?
Why do they put fucking ping-pong paddles in their lips?
Like, what the fuck?
>>231584
Nice strawman
you cant argue that im wrong when i state you do not see the reality of the subject so you go and post stupid shit and try and claim i am implying it
the only thing you confirmed is that stormfaggotry is useless on this board so please keep it on the cancerous containment board
since all you do is resort to the same old fallacies that ARE A FUCKING STICKY on your home board
>>231657
Don't get baited.
>>230383
WE WUZ SLAVES N SHIT
>>230767
>Rhodesia
>ran by boers
>little better than zulus
>>230433
THIS. FUCKING THIS.
I'm sticking with European history, because to learn the history of a nation I need English, Irish, Latin and Norse. Four languages. I need to speak and be able to hear one of those, MAYBE two. And that's totally and completely comprehensive to make me a master of all relevant documents for thousands of years.
If I want to do the history of a relatively sized nation in Africa, I need to learn over FORTY languages.
And because of the dependence on Oral History, I need to actually speak and hear all of those.
It's absolutely a nightmare.
>>231149
Africans did have gunpowder
WE
>muh /pol/ boogeyman
Even /tv/'s whining about reddit isn't this pathetic.
>>234743
WUZ
>>235022
KINGS
>>235158
Can you fuck off ?
Go to r/askhistorians if you want good responses. 4chan is a meme board.
OP is seriously asking why Africa, excepting the Northern part, is barely mentioned in history.
They barely or did not have a written language.
Shit was not documented.
Most of them didn't even have a fucking iron age, much less a bronze one.
Today, areas such as Congo is like looking into the past except for the fact that the natives in traditional jungle attire are holding AKMs and speaking French patois
They called Africa a dark continent for a reason, and it means many things, even regarding their history.
In short, Africa fucking sucks.
>>235158
I'll contribute another reason African History is hell:
It's split up along colonial lines. History of Africa is mainly written by taking the geographic region of the modern states of Africa and just working backwards in time.
This creates complete, undecipherable nonsense. It's only in the last ten years, that people have noticed that there was never a magical wall where Uganda stops and the Democratic Republic of Congo begins.
Until very recently, the Kivus would just be an incredibly unimportant section of a "History of the Congo" Most of which talks about events literally unheard of in the Kivus.
Oh yeah, which brings up another thing: All the archives are completely all over the place.
If you want the relavent documents on American history you go to America. You want the relevant documents on Rwanda, you go to Rwanda, Tanzania, Kinshasa, Berlin, Burundi and Belgium.
Similar things abound. If you were anywhere in Francophone Africa, relevant materials MIGHT be in the Republic of Congo, or Paris, or they might be in Algiers, for fucks sake.
>>231594
He did say "I forgot" and "not sure how I feel about it".
>>230783
Honestly other than that one overflowing dumpster which any city can have, it looks pretty nice
>>235158
Go to an actual history forum
>>230383
Too little in terms of written records, lesser significance if you're outside of Africa.
Why do you think Japanese people study Japanese and east-asian history so in depth and only barely give a fuck about the west, with the rest being less than a passing note?
>>235175
Fucking this, I'm tired, so fucking tired of all this racism. I'm going back to reddit for now, really.
>>238309
Nice bait.
>>238229
It is funny if you actually know any full-on afrocentrists "we wuz kings of britain and shit"
"Portuguese royal family wuz all from Mali"
"Muh venetian merchants were phoenician blacks"
"Ayoo latin american countries' societies were made by black people"
"America was discovered by black explorers and the natives had mon black kings"
