Thoughts on her/her work?
>inb4 she uses big words
>>382867
Has she done anything significant other than saying that gender is performed?
>>382884
Not that I can think of. But she's been a controversial figure for it. Especially from feminists it seems.
>>382903
I find the entire debate irritating since it comes down to where we want to draw the line for what counts as gender. If we sufficiently restrict what counts, then Butler is clearly correct. The content of our concepts "male" and "female" have fluctuated with regard to the roles we play, our fashion, our behavior and so on. It isn't clear to me that gender is just these things though and I'm skeptical that we could give any definite answer to the question of what domain "gender" necessarily covers. It seems more important that we research and analyze the things that could potentially fall under the domain (fashion, biology, cultural roles, etc.) rather than argue over where we want to draw lines for words.
>>382867
Her writing about 4chan is spot on.
>>382884
No. She merely describes the status quo and does not disturb it.
Zizek has already proved that her theories of multiplicities of gender denies differences of gender, subsumes them all into one category and therefore she is a bigot.
Having two genders is more pluralistic and tolerant than having 3+ genders.
Third-wave feminists on suicide watch.
That's a woman? Looks like David Bowie after 30 years of meth use.
>>382986
>theories of multiplicities of gender denies differences of gender, subsumes them all into one category and therefore she is a bigot.
Can you explain the argument?
>>382867
I've only read one of her books so I don't know how fair it is, and I've trouble remembering the name of it (was fairly recent), but for someone doing social science and ought to know how important a strict methodology and being crystal clear with philosophical assumptions, she sure is lacking on said department. Not as in it being bad but just plainly lacking.
>>382867
She's a typical cis-centrist proto-3rd wave revisionist feminist.
Her writings on gender are just rehashes of what Rapoport and Stevens were propounding in the mid 80s. And her concepts of intra-gender fluid relations are droll but uninspired.
>>383000
Yeah, I'm pretty curious myself.
>>383052
>intra-gender fluid relations
That sounds like it's a mix of newspeak and fucking klingon. I can't even fathom what the fuck it means.
>>382930
Well, if I'm to understand your skepticism correctly -- I think she's saying that essentially everything counts as "gender." Gender is performed. The clothes you wear, the things you like, are all the result of you performing your gender. She is weary of the fact that gender is enforced the way it is and sees it as oppressive. I mean, the central argument which she makes is a Foucauldian sort of argument: that there aren't any preexisting notions of gender, sex, and so on.
>>383000
>>383061
Butler wants to claim that there's potentially a bizillion different genders. Zizek says that makes them all the same. It literally doesn't matter what your gender is cause everyone is gonna be a unique gender snowflake. EVERYONE. All the differences, paradoxically, are no longer different.
So Zizek argues that the male/female dichotomy is not only more real but preserves gender difference: men and women are different.
It's ultimately a critique of the Derrida in Butler and a call to return to Hegel.
Read Martha Nussbaum's paper about her. This is from before Butler became the sacred cow of academia leftists, so she really calls her out on her stupid bullshit.
>>382986
>denies difference of gender
I'm not so sure that's the case. I think she's skeptical of multiplicities of gender as being gender progressive. When we assign new labels on our bodies, minds, etc., we only further entrench ourselves in the sort of fight which exists for and against "compulsory heteronormativity."
>>383151
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/irvinem/theory/Nussbaum-Butler-Critique-NR-2-99.pdf
>>383052
>cis-centrist
>intra-gender fluid relations
Is this what tumblr feels like?
>>383143
See, but the issue with that is exactly the sort of issue which Butler concerns herself with. Why are there differences between man and woman? We assign the differences -- that is to say, the differences do not exist prior to our knowledge of it.
>>382903
Feminists don't understand her because they haven't started with the Greeks and no fuck all about Foucault and Derrida.
Butler thinks Penis and Vagina don't exist outside of language. Most Feminists want their vagina to be real but to have every caprice they so desire. So they think doing X, Y, Z on impulse is an example of gender performance and they're in control of their gender/sexuality.
Butler is more nihilist than this. There is never a 'real You.' It's a constant flux as pushed by the rivers of language. Writing difficultly for Butler opens up ways of recognizing this flux and thereby the possibility to change gender, but it will never be finalized.
How many Feminists will admit the self is a linguistic illusion?
>>383172
>Butler thinks Penis and Vagina don't exist outside of language.
>>383169
Empty meaningless drivel. Say something coherent. The bad kind of "I talk about books I haven't read."
>>383180
Did you really make that face when you read that sentence?
>>382986
>her writing about 4chan
link?
Google brought no results
Also generally here ideas on gender performativity make a great deal of sense, it is the idea that sex, as well as gender, is constructed.
>>383172
It's similar to Stirner: the self is a creative-nothing. An endpoint in language.
>>383184
Found the Zizfag.
>>383195
Not quite. More Foucault than Stirner. The self is just a gear in a huge factor of power relations.
Stirner is just a bad Heidegger and a Nietzsche for lazy students.
This whole thread is just pretentious snobby shit. Prime example:
>Why are there differences between man and woman?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism
Like holy shit, this is dollar-store sociology/philosophy. And philosophy is already dollar-store.
>>383203
> See, but the issue with that is exactly the sort of issue which Butler concerns herself with.
damn right I stopped reading right there
>>383217
Judith Butler makes 220K + a year USD after taxes.
Her writing advocates for her to write more on behalf of all the marginalized, because her writing opens metaphorical doors and windows to different ways of performing gender.
Literally: Pay me to make you more free, dykes and faggots. Don't ever let me get fired or laid off! Think I write like shit? You can't handle MUH FREEDOM!
It's a bit like when Feminists get mad that the rape stats are too low. Because if rape ends, they no longer have a job and purpose. They need rape to exist.
>>383237
gr8 b8 m8
>>383316
Is it wrong?
Judith Butler is in the 1%. She writes ivory tower criticism that is extremely dense and infamous for being obscure and badly worded. Butler claims that her writing is "emanicipatory" (that's actually a word she coined) and this is the necessary style for resistance. Read her NY Times response to her Bad Writing Award.
She earns a rich salary to liberate us.
The only reason Zizek is so chummy with Butler is that she's the perfect target. She's poses no threat at all.
>>383356
And all of this is worse if it turns out Zizek is correct, that her writing merely describes the status quo and does not alter it.
In that case she's earning 220K for academic shitposting.
>>383367
>implying philosophy isn't shitposting
>>383136
Do infants "perform" having a penis or vagina? I don't think so and biology is something that is sometimes used when discussing gender. If that's the case, we have to restrict the term "gender" to the things we're interested in, namely, things that are clearly performed, or we have to acknowledge that the term is used more broadly to encompass things that aren't performed. If we want to go the route of having an ontology which would put everything in flux, then Butler's theory is true but trivially so since not only would gender be performed but so would literally everything. There are no rocks, just performances of rocks. In that case, we're back to the same sort of issue I was complaining about but using slightly different terms to describe. We can either talk about the different senses in which things are performed or we can argue over what types of performance count as being within the domain of a specific term. If we want to deny that there are real differences between types of objects/performances then the term "gender" itself also seems to lose any sort of meaning, along with basically every other word we use.
>>383143
Okay, that seems similar to my take on things. I'm not sure that it provides evidence for a strict dichotomy or that the nature of the dichotomy or other conception that we have of gender will be correct though. idk about the Hegel thing either.
>>383356
>Judith Butler is in the 1%.
And this is precisely why everyone who reads Marx complained about this analysis. Butler's role in reproducing, if we use Althusser for a moment, the Ideological State Apparatus has nothing to do with whether she owns capital or not. Correspondingly Žižek.
The market for pop academics who once produced a work that, in another epoch, may have be seminal, in order to bamboozle undergraduates in North East America, is very great indeed. The demand produces the supply.
Personally I preferred when it was Marcuse and Marshall McLuhan.
>The move from a structuralist account in which capital is understood to structure social relations in relatively homologous ways to a view of hegemony in which power relations are subject to repetition, convergence, and rearticulation brought the question of temporality into the thinking of structure, and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory that takes structural totalities as theoretical objects to one in which the insights into the contingent possibility of structure inaugurate a renewed conception of hegemony as bound up with the contingent sites and strategies of the rearticulation of power.
You don't win first prize in the annual bad writing award for nothing.
>>384122
>and marked a shift from a form of Althusserian theory
The joke is on Judith: historians have been doing this since Engels and Ranke. Moreover, Judith's account is still structuralist rather than based in corporate subjectivities found and discovered in the texts of life.
When someone say that gender is identity, as it was a freedom from oppression, i always thought they ignore on how imposed is social gender roles. I mean, gender is a social construction. When you are born female and you become a trans-man, you're just emulating what "man" is by society. In that way, you are not ending gender oppression, because this female will start acting like a man would. So domination by power relations will still exist.
Same with trans-woman. How a man, who was socialized as a man, be a woman? He would just shave his legs and put some make up and then "boom" he's a woman nao. That's why radfems hates queer theory. It's like saying that be a woman is just dressing and acting "girly".
>>384459
everyone internalises shit differently. we all take in what men should do and what women should do, regardless of our sex/gender. how we apply it to ourselves varies.
>>383859
So she add a one-to-one functional mapping of the universal set, i.e., everything is simply transformed into the performance of itself?
>>384122
Can't learn writing style from Modernists because muh soggy knee.
I am a leftist but I think cultural revolution can only result in violence. We should never divorce ourselves from the past and from the mainstream, but instead strive to change society through its preexisting mechanisms for change, in this case politics and journalism.
>>384824
fuck you too cunt
>>384836
Go to bed Judith. Your seminal [sic.] works are long gone.
>>382884
Why isn't that significant?
"I don't like it" is not an answer.
>>384877
>>Has she done anything significant other than saying that gender is performed?
>Why isn't that significant?
You're functionally fucking illiterate aren't you? Let's break it down.
>Has she done anything significant other than saying that gender is performed
This is the same as saying:
>She said, significantly, that gender is performed. What other significant things has she said?
>She said, significantly, that gender is performed.
Really I hope that English is your second language, because if it is your first you should take remedial courses.
>>383164
BTFO
T
F
O
>>382986
>Her writing about 4chan is spot on.
wut
>>385446
You didn't hear?
>>384067
Marcuse is pure shit.
>>384768
>mechanisms for change
bourgeois sympathizer detected
>>387787
no, please explain
>>383143
How exactly is her take more bigoted? Zizek's proposed take would involve pigeon holing people into one of two distinct categories.
>>383213
>Stirner is just a bad Heidegger and a Nietzsche for lazy students.
But he's more intellectually honest and internally consistent than either. The fact he wrote less is not an indication of quality.
>>382867
>inb4 made up words that only liberal cultists use
>>388679
>But he's more intellectually honest and internally consistent than either.
nope nope nope
>>387821
"4chan circumscribes a systemic, self-sustaining inter-reaction between diverse bodies and minds who, stripped of their ontic qualities, engage in a metadiscourse based on conceptual absurdity and culturally-transmitted, discrete units of information that take on the latent qualities of those through whom it is transmitted."
>>388775
She's not wrong, this place is basically pure ontology stripped of onticity plus memes
>>388770
Yes yes yes. Both of those philosophers spend several volumes peddling self-delusion as a consistent philosophy.
>>388828
> If I keep repeating Stirner's philosophy is flawless, it will be!
>>388890
Bah, I was just screwing with you dude. I'll check out Heidegger after Nietzsche.
>>387793
>Marcuse is pure shit.
Undergraduates misused him less egregiously than they misuse Butler and Žižek.
Most undergraduates don't understand the dusty balls joke. The point is to stab the mongol to death and fuck your wife.
>>388775
Provide a citation you little shit
>>383164
>http://faculty.georgetown.edu/irvinem/theory/Nussbaum-Butler-Critique-NR-2-99.pdf
fuuuuuuckk
>>382867
I don't have a problem with her work but I dislike its misuse. Basically idiots saying gender is just performance and therefore I can cut my hair and be whatever gender I want. That type of thing seems like a gross oversimplification and in some cases opposed to her thought.
>>390231
"Concrete projects" == "lobbying the state"
Fucking liberals.
