When did Islamism replace Arab nationalism as a credible ideology of muslim resistance?
Yeah, I know about defeats of Arab coalitions by Israel, fall of the USSR, Saudi petrodollars, Mujahideen victory in Afghanistan etc. but was there some watershed moment?
>>345162
There wasn't. Nationalism slowly decayed and withered away, discredited by decades of failure.
>>345171
I'm curious what kind of fucked up ideology is going to replace Islamism
Secular Middle East. Just imagine
>>345162
Simple answer?
>George DUBYA Bush
Long answer?
>Israel gets backed by US in it's wars
>Arab world now hates USA
>petro dollar allows Wahabism to spread it's message with billions in funds for madrassas and imams all over the world
>Saudis and Israel continually pressure US to defeat the few remaining opponents in the ME
>Iraq gets rekt
>Syria gets rekt
>"SUDDENLY ISIS GUYS"
Baathism and Arab nationalism was obliterated in the name of "freedom" and replaced by Arab Spring- CIA-MOSSAD-SAUDI funded cells.
Voila, welcome to the ME of 2015, where Islam has conquered all and the Arab spring looks like a joke in hindsight.
Thanks Bush Sr. Thanks Bush Jr. Thanks Israel. Thanks Al-Sauds.
Wasn't Arab national just a response to colonialism, and once the corruption and failings of petro-states and religious monarchies could no longer be blamed on evil Europeans or Americans, nationalism as a compelling justification fell apart?
The only thing keeping together the old nationalist and revolutionary regimes were brute force and once that force had aged and weakened, the Arab Spring finally swelled and worked.
Islamism isn't the rival to nationalism, it can exist with it (as in KSA or Egypt) or against it (Syria and Iraq).
Just my thoughts, I look forward to the one person who has another intelligent thought on the matter and to the dozens of others who will post memes.
When Arabic states started the process towards westernization and what Islamists saw as a decadent western society.
Add to that the failure of the nationalists to resist the West effectively and you have former nationalists turning to another faction that wants independence from the west, the Islamists.
The 1970s were when the Saudis started funding international Wahhabism, and when Iranians overthrew the Shah in favor of theocracy.
![800px-Joseph_McCarthy[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/1F4fZVf.jpg "800px-Joseph_McCarthy[1].jpg")
>>345162
"Today e are engaged in a final, all-out battle between communistic atheism and Christianity. The modern champions of communism have selected this as the time, and ladies and gentlemen, the chips are down — they are truly down." -Senator Joseph McCarthy
That tells the essential. During the cold war the west, particularly the US, supported religious factions in the Middle-East against the nationalist, leftist and secular governments that often leaned on the Soviets. The cold war was also seen by some as the battle between atheists and believers.
The Iranian revolution is of particular interest. The Shah had destroyed the left and there was no organized political group to oppose his regime. This was by need to keep Soviet influence at bay. When the revolution game, it had a variety of factions: students, poor, women, devout believers, middle-class employees. There was still only one organizes institution, the religious one, that collected the fruits afterwards.
>>345162
After Nasser Egypt went to shit.
>>346071
>The Iranian revolution is of particular interest. The Shah had destroyed the left and there was no organized political group to oppose his regime. This was by need to keep Soviet influence at bay. When the revolution game, it had a variety of factions: students, poor, women, devout believers, middle-class employees. There was still only one organizes institution, the religious one, that collected the fruits afterwards.
Interesting.
>>345162
Just realised I don't know a whole lot on this topic. Can somebody recommend me a good book on Arab nationalism and Islamism?
>>345162
nationalism usually hearkens bad to a "glory days"
granted the Middle east has a lot of "glory days" but the Caliphate was unique because it was one of the few times where the ME states were united (Persia, Mesopotamia, etc were all ethnic whereas Islam was all about being past ethnic lines).
![Daily+reminder+this+could+have+all+been+prevented+_cfb632964066cad79aee62f87fb84b79[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/saa2Xa6.jpg "Daily+reminder+this+could+have+all+been+prevented+_cfb632964066cad79aee62f87fb84b79[1].jpg")
There is a Polandball that covers this topic.
>>346768
I know right. I am a bit of a cynic, I believe individual leaders don't make much difference against the tide of history, but Presidents like Nasser and Tito make me question this.
>>347551
Eh. I don't think they make much difference, but men like them make good bell weathers.
It's not so much the death of Nasser and Tito, as the death of Nasserism and Titoism that was the problem.
>>347538
>Palestine state
>Rejects partition plan and never bothered to respond with their ideas besides "Muh JOOOOOOOS"
>Israel just "happened"
>Discounting 100 years of Zionism while Arabs did nothing but chimp out and riot
While I agree on the part about the shift in Arab thinking, going from Pan-Arabism to Islamism, this grossly oversimplifies the nationalist and ethnic identities of the region. All ME countries, with subtle exceptions of Egypt and Syria and theoretically Israel (Muh WE WUZ KINGS...2000 years ago), are colonial constructs. The identity most Arab post colonial states had was Pan-Arabism - NOT distinct ethno-cultural nationalism that defines the Kurdish and Jewish claims to the region. Not surprisingly, the strongest ties in the ME are tribal, which thanks to colonial borders, leaves some ethnic groups shit out of luck stuck as minorities when across the border they have more influence. Islamism is the new revisionist nationalism that ties these ethnic tribal groups together; without Islam and military dictatorships, the ME would be balkanized as fuck or living peacefully under an empire like it did for thousands of years.
This comic reads like some of BDS revisionist fag who think the ancient "Palestinians" built Solomon's temple and were literally the descendants of the ancient kingdom of Judea...Not that revisionist Zionists are much better.
I like the polandball one where the UK and US basically tell the butthurt Arabs that according to the rules of how things work, Israel won and thus winners keepers, losers weepers.
>>345171
>Decades of failure
Right, because the alternative has yielded much better results.
>>345183
>Secular Middle East. Just imagine
The only way that's going to happen at this rate is Imperium Americanum.
>>347733
Forgot my picture.
>>347621
Aha. So are you also ignoring Zionist radicals and terrorism?
