My girlfriend says the seeds of Britain's decline were sewn in the Glorious Revolution. She's probably biased because she's Catholic, but I asked her how she could figure that when Britain reached its zenith in the 19th Century, and she just said a fatal wound can take a long time to kill.
Is she full of it? I don't know enough about it comment.
>>322639
*sown, I mean
>>322639
>She's probably biased because she's Catholic
there's your problem. dump that papist trash. youll do yourself a big favor
and yes she is full of shit. its ahistorical to point to one event and then make it out to related to a totally different historical period, namely, the 20th century when the british empire contracted. Also she doesn't know shit because it was the glorious revolution that started the British empire in the first place. before that it was a second rate power. after that it sealed parliament's power, enabled it to get power of the purse and establish the national bank and debt, both of which enabled the country to spend unprecedented amounts of money that would not have been available before. her argument amounts to "muh James II" "muh feels"
>>322639
No. Protestantism kills all good in the world. Britain deserves a British king. A Catholic king. Fuck Germans. Fuck the Dutch too. 1745 best day of my life.
>>322671
>1745
we all know how that went. pretty pathetic that your whole life hinges on a hopeless rebellion baka
>>322665
She's a Polanyifag, so that figures
>>322695
don't know much about him, how would that shift her perspective?
>>322788
He was a Jewish, later Catholic, economist who thought capitalism perverted ethics and community in economics.
>>322865
ahh k
>>322639
>Catholics who date non-Catholics
Your girlfriend is trash tier no matter what her opinions are.
>>322639
She probably heard this from some chad she wanted to cuk you with
>>322639
It was whatever caused the Brits to pass the Statute of Westminster, wasn't it?
>>322944
I got to Mass with her.
>>322944
What about Cathos and russian/greek orthodox/marionites?
>>322865
That sounds horrifying.
Please explain more.
>>322639
Sounds like Catholic butthurt. Join the Orange Order and tell her to drink some concrete and harden the fuck up.
>>322949
>seeds
yep, definitely.
>>322944
>Wife is Irish Catholic from a religious family
>I'm Lutheran/Martinist
>Also Freemason
>Still attend Latin Mass with her
Some things are more important that petty sectarian issues, but it does feel fun.
>>323013
I've seen him talked about here before, this was posted last time: http://people.f3.htw-berlin.de/Professoren/Thomasberger/pdf/37_Christianity_and_Economic_Life.pdf
>>322981
>>322994
>>323021
No
>>323021
>sectarian issues
>petty
what liberal nonsense. I'm not even religious but if you really cared about your religion matters of doctrine and faith should be important. dont even bother believing in god tbqh
>>323030
>complains about barbarians
>gives Germanics the title of HRE
>>323029
lmao started reading that and it's ahistoricism overdrive. Get your girlfriend a copy of the Phenomenology of Spirit and read it with her.
>>323034
>I'm not even religious but if you really cared about your religion matters of doctrine and faith should be important
They are. But it's more important that we're both Trinitarian Christian of the same racial/ethnic background than whether or not we agree that an elected pontiff can speak infallibly for God or not.
>>323034
I'd take an atheist like you over a relativist "Christian" any day.
>>323034
The Catholic Church has given communion to non-Catholics before (see: Brother Roger) in the interest of putting aside petty squabbles.
>>322865
Not wrong there
>>323040
She's actually read it and tried to get me to read it to, but I'll be honest, I can't understand it worth jack shit. Then again, she's can read German, so maybe that helps? The English translation is a pain.
>>323041
Non-Catholics aren't Christians. There's one faith taught by Jesus Christ and this faith is the infallible teaching of the Church he founded on the rock of St. Peter. Anything else is a false gospel and is of the devil. Catholic = Christian and everything else is a false religion of man.
>>323021
Freemason, you say?
Are those subtle handsigns to identify fellow Masons still a thing?
>>323054
>Non-Catholics aren't Christians
Funny, coming from a polytheistic idol worshiper.
>>323054
Jesus forgives, friend. Hence, enjoy being stuck with a bunch of non-catholics in heaven.
>>323054
Yet the Catholic Church recognizes non-Catholic baptisms and gave communion to Brother Roger.
>>323059
Nah, not really. I mean, there are things you *could* do, but we just wear lapel pins, rings, or whatever.
>>323049
( 0Đ´0)
It's worth it if you could get her to help you. I've got the Miller translation, idk if that's what you've got.
Have you tried reading Schopenhauer? He's a lot easier to begin with and will give you a foothold into Hegel I think.
If she can read German surely she's read Nietzsche.
>>323072
Yeah, She's read Nietzsche and Schopenhauer. She actually recommend I read Aristotle, Heraclitus and Kant in order to get a handle on Hegel. I thought Heraclitus was pretty interesting, but she gave me Aristotle's Organon and I couldn't sustain an attention span, it was so clinical. I'll try Kant later tho
>>323041
>whether or not we agree that an elected pontiff can speak infallibly for God or not.
If she doesn't believe that then she should convert to your faith senpai. because papal infallibility and the catholic church as an organization is fundamental to catholicism itself.
>>323044
fair enough, since the catholic church has ultimate authority on question of faith then i don't see anything wrong. I also don't see anything wrong with two different protestant sects marrying together either because as far as I know a lot of the issues are over organization and not matters of doctrine.
>>323070
Like is it still a cool secret society or is it just shitty 'barbeques at the local park to raise money for charity' shit? And can I join if my lineage isn't Mason? I believe in God, btw.
>>323082
>I'll try Kant later tho
Nigga am I being fucked with.
Good luck.
>>323083
>If she doesn't believe that then she should convert to your faith senpai. because papal infallibility and the catholic church as an organization is fundamental to catholicism itself.
I'm the one who doesn't agree with that. I don't think she's hugely in favour of it, but there are other aspects of it which is why she's still RC.
>>323087
Depends where you are. A lot of American ones are the latter, but you can still join the good European Concept/Traditional Observance style lodges, which are far closer to what people think of as Freemasonry.
And yes, you can join if you're a free-born man above the age of majority, joining of your own free will, with a belief in God (though for most of the non-Craft degrees, you have to be Trinitarian Christian. Ie. Catholic/Anglican/Orthodox/etc.)
>>323086
>I don't worship anyone other than God alone
Hope you don't pray to Mary or the saints, then.
>Brother Roger receiving communion was sacrilege of the Holy Eucharist
Not a very Christian thing to say.
>>323086
>Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus
Get outta here with that catecism jazz. Some shitty Vatican council took Cyprian's writing out of context.
>I believe that your life must will be blessed through forgiving others. Would you like to choose to forgive for the benefit of others? Maybe your decision can bring an opportunity of redemption for others.
Romans, 20-12
What's your gripe with orthodox anyway? No worse than Anglicism.
>>323086
>And that doesn't contradict what I said. Being baptized doesn't make you a follower of Christ. Brother Roger receiving communion was sacrilege of the Holy Eucharist
Two Popes administered it to him, John Paul II and Benedict XVI (and under these circumstances, it's highly doubtful the current Pope would decline to do so were Brother Roger still alive). I think they speak for the Catholic Church more than you do.
>>323095
Well, last questions and I'll stop annoying you. Is it still a good place to make business connections? And it's not just an excuse for the fellas to get away from their wives and get drunk these days?
>>323088
She says it's hard to grasp Hegel's terminology if you haven't read Kant, though she says Hegel also modifies it. She tried to explain each term to me but I can't remember all that so she said read Kant.
Thanks
>>323034
kek, dat "extra ecclesiam nulla salus"
>>323106
All good bro.
>Is it still a good place to make business connections?
Can be, but if that's a reason for joining, you'd be left disappointed. It's no different to making friends or meeting people anywhere. You'd probably have more luck on a sports team.
>And it's not just an excuse for the fellas to get away from their wives and get drunk these days?
Well, drinking is forbidden in a lot of places, and wives/girlfriends/both are free to come along for the banquets. So no, but again, I can't promise that there aren't shitty and boring lodges.
>>323110
i don't understand though, wouldn't protestants see catholicism as a bastardization of the christian message and vice-versa? in this way, each would see the other as committing fundamental errors that would deny them salvation. and if a catholic did marry outside the faith it really would be as you say
>>323097
>Hope you don't pray to Mary or the saints, then.
Prayer isn't worship in the case of the saints. The word has also always meant to ask or to make a request (ex. "Can you hold the door?"). Asking the saints in heaven to pray for us has been done by Christians from the beginning. The bible makes it clear that the saints know what goes on in our lives on Earth and care for us greatly (Luke 15:7), that Christians are to pray for one another and that the prayer of the righteous is very effective (James 5:16), those in heaven pray constantly (Revelation 4:8). With this in mind it's obvious that they can hear us and it's perfectly acceptable for us to ask them to pray for us.
>>323098
Luke 10:16
16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.
To reject the Church is to reject Christ
>>323104
The Popes actions were contrary to the Church's official teaching.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/who-can-receive-communion
>>323115
Thanks for your answers, friend. I'll look into them along with the other 'Most Divine Order of the Oriental Holy Star' type clubs.
Alright, last question, I promise. Are there many Ashkenazim in freemasonry or do they have their own thing?
>>323121
Yeah, but my Bible quote supersedes yours.
You're actually a Catholic, right? Not one of those batshit crazy Pentecostals?
>>323121
>http://www.catholic.com/tracts/who-can-receive-communion
Then clearly there are exceptions to the rule.
>>323120
Some would sure, in fact you could plausibly argue that most of them do.
But the point is that some people Christians might not care, because at least they are Christian.
>>323134
Yes and Brother Roger did not receive communion in a situation of death or grave necessity. Popes can be wrong and they can sin. The Church has never claimed otherwise and giving Brother Roger communion was not in accordance with canon law.
>>323125
>Most Divine Order of the Oriental Holy Star
Be careful with those kinds. They can just be pyramid scams.
And there are some, since all religions are welcome (in the Craft degrees. Obviously not the Christian/Chivalric ones), but certainly a vast minority. B'nai B'rith is more their specific thing.
Good luck, old boy. Hope you got the info you need. Otherwise feel free to keep asking.
>>323121
>Asking the saints in heaven to pray for us has been done by Christians from the beginning.
Doesn't make it any better. It denies the Omnipresence/Omnipotence of God.
>>323149
I'm ignorant. What's a craft degree?
>>323148
what is papal infallibility about then...?
>>322639
She's talking utter ahistorical shit.
>>323148
If you knowingly administer a sacrament when you're not supposed to, isn't that automatic excommunication?
>>323158
Only applies to ex cathedra.
>>323121
You seem quite adherent to Catholicism. What do you think of the 'progressive' Jesuit chap running the show these days? (pic not related)
>>323164
so once they're gone the next pope can say he was fallible after all?
>>323166
Catholicism has been progressive for hundreds of years, even their liturgical music is progressive and changes to accommodate the times.
>>323157
Non-sectarian degrees. Americans call them the Blue Lodge Degrees. Entered Apprentice, Fellowcraft, Mark Master, Master Mason, and Holy Royal Arch.
EA, FC, and MM (1, 2, 3)are conferred in a Craft lodge, the other two usually elsewhere.
It's mostly to distinguish them from the Christian only degrees such as the Ancient and Accepted Rite, Knights Templar, Rosicrucians, Red Cross of Constantine, and others.
>>323149
>They can just be pyramid scams.
Haha, I'll keep my eye out. Most places with those names are just pointless LaVey/Crowley masturbatory deals anyway (the ones that aren't scientology-esque money sucking cults anyway).
>>323130
Your quote is actually irrelevant in regard to salvation of non-Christians. It is in regards to forgiving others. This isn't a bad thing and you can forgive a person who isn't a Christian without thinking him saved. I think it's interesting that you think your unrelated quote supersedes Christ telling his followers that anyone who rejects them are also rejecting God.
>>323154
No, no it does not. Unless you think asking anyone to pray for you does this. The bible tells us to pray for one another. Asking a friend to pray for you is fine. Scripture makes it clear that Christians in heaven (who have been perfected in Christ and are very righteous indeed) hear us and pray constantly. Them hearing us is a gift of God alone and we can ask them to pray for us like anyone else.
>>323158
Papal Infallibility is a negative protection given to the Bishop of Rome by God. It prevents him from teaching an error in regard to faith and morals from the chair of St. Peter (ex Cathedra). It doesn't inspire him to making a perfect judgment, but prevent him from teaching errors. If he doesn't know the correct answer he won't say anything.
>>323166
I disagree with his stance on mass immigration and the refugees. But he isn't progressive like people seem to think. (I'll show this in the next post.)
>>323170
You mean contradict a prior Pope on an ex cathedra doctrine? Theoretically.
>>323166
>>323178
Pope says gay marriage is from satan
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/pope-francis-same-sex-marriage-move-father-lies-total-rejection-gods-law
Compares transfag rights to nuclear arms race
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/pope-francis-compares-arguments-for-transgender-rights-to-nuclear-arms-race-10061223.html
Pope Francis says that there's no salvation outside the Church
http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2013/06/03/pope-francis-is-under-attack-for-saying-that-outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation-its-a-poke-in-the-eye-says-one-presbyterian-why-hes-wrong/
He excommunicates an Australian priest supporting gay marriage and women clergy
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
Pope Francis is against gender theory and for traditional gender roles
http://ncronline.org/blogs/francis-chronicles/pope-francis-gender-theory-problem-not-solution
Pope is against abortion
http://www.lifenews.com/2015/09/23/pope-francis-on-abortions-innocent-victims-its-wrong-to-look-the-other-way-or-remain-silent/
He Encourages the use of force against ISIS
http://www.businessinsider.com/pope-francis-endorses-use-of-force-against-isis-in-iraq-2014-8
Pope Francis is against lukewarm "faith"
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-off-the-cuff-to-priests-religious-indifference-makes-god-vomit-69700/
The Pope is misquoted often
http://www.christianpost.com/buzzvine/7-times-pope-francis-was-misquoted-132679/
>>323175
So you suddenly forgive gays but not other affiliated Christians? (guy who asked about orthodox and marionites here, btw).
>>323178
>No, no it does not.
Yea, it does.
>Guess God's not all powerful enough to hear me, better call in some backup to boost the signal
Or
>The Will of God can be changed if we pester enough
>>323162
I'd like an answer on this.
>>323180
>"Progressive" pope
>>323184
It does not claim that God can't hear me.Why don't you read the bible? James 5:16 "16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much."
The bible tells us to pray for one another. It also says that the prayer of the just or righteous man availeth much. The saints in heaven are perfected in Christ and very righteous, Christians who've been called to pray for their brethren, and they can hear us and are in full communion with us. Asking them to pray for us is the same as asking anyone to pray for us. This is something taught in scripture. Christians are to pray for one another and the saints in heaven are not exempt from this.
>>323192
Sorry if I misunderstood, but the charge that Pope Francis is a liberal aren't uncommon. Overall I like him, but I disagree with him on a few issues, and think he could try to be more clear at times when speaking.
>>323180
In response to the Hebdo shootings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25ccOZSO1M
In response to the Hammer and Sickle Crucifix he was gifted
>The pope himself later announced that he was keeping the hammer-and-sickle crucifix and taking it home, saying, “I understand this work. For me it wasn’t an offense.”
>>323208
This is assuming it's still the same usage of pray, rather than a bastardised translation originally meaning love or care.
But either way, it is still denying the power or will of God.
>>323208
>Sorry if I misunderstood, but the charge that Pope Francis is a liberal aren't uncommon.
True, but that's because anything that diverges slightly away from "kill all fags" and "women should be stoned for adultery" is considered progressive when it comes to the Catholic Church.
>>323180
>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/24/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-greg-reynolds_n_3983059.html
Oh wow, the media buried that one. (or the public didn't care?)
>>323180
The Pope is against gay marriage, but says maybe civil unions are okay for the Church to endorse: http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/05/pope-francis-church-could-support-civil-unions/
>>323223
That's because, according to Catholic news sources, there's no reason to think he did it because of the guy's stances, since there are other priests who support that (they're a big part of the movement to legalize gay marriage in Ireland) and they haven't been excommunicated.
>>323228
>Scripture denies the power and will of God
The translation might. But otherwise yes. It's at best a contradiction.
>>323233
See: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/05/20/priests-are-bucking-catholic-church-leadership-to-support-same-sex-marriage-in-ireland/
It's extremely unlike Pope Francis excommunicated that one guy for supporting gay marriage.
>>323228
>I've yet to see the "kill all fags" or "women should be stoned for adultery".
Well it's in the book though, clearly.
>>323247
>Are you a Christian?
Yup.
>>323208
You Irish, btw? You don't have to answer that.
>>323264
>And you're rejecting scripture?
No more than you are.
Catholicbro, is God omnipotent and omnipresent and how do we have free will if so? That's a complex question so I don't expect a long answer. (I'd just google it but I don't want to read some bible-belt shit opinion).
Thread theme, btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU2IPkoQjXI
>>323267
I'm not rejecting it at all. I'm adhering to it perfectly while you claim it's contradictory because apparently praying for one another makes God incapable.
>>323247
>Old testament civil laws that were only necessary for the biblical state of Israel? Not exactly necessary or being called for today.
So why is the Church bigoted against homosexuals then?
I mean, I don't mind you guys picking and choosing what to believe from the books, but you should at least be honest about it.
If you don't consider it pertinent to sentence people to death for working on the Sabbath, which is a piece of Old Testament law, why hate on homosexuals, which is also in the OT.
>>323273
>I'm adhering to it perfectly
Except the parts about God being Omnipotent/Omnipresent/Omniscient, and that all being saved in Christ.
>>323178
Why do they bother with the Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity then?
>>323275
There are three types of law in the Old Testament. Moral law (this stands for all time and is for all people), Civil Law (these are specific laws for the biblical kingdom of Israel), and the Ceremonial Law (these are the ritual laws like kosher that separate the Jews from the gentiles and point towards Christ and are fulfilled and made necessary by his coming). Homosexuality is listed as a sin in scripture in and of itself in both the Old and New Testaments. As well the civil law always had a moral underpinning to it. For example there's a law in Deuteronomy (where the civil law is predominantly found) that when building a new house you need to put a guard rail on the roof. This is because it was the culture to hang out on the roof with people. The moral underpinning behind this is the safety of people and in our culture we put guard rails in place we frequent. The civil law requiring the execution of homosexuals was a civil law of the state. The moral law being that homosexual acts are sinful (Note it has always been the church teaching that homosexual acts were sinful, not same sex attraction).
>>323281
God is still omnipotent and omniscient. Me praying to him and asking someone else to pray for me doesn't make him weaker. And all are saved in Christ. It's just that Christ makes it clear that rejecting his Church is equivalent to rejecting him and anyone who does this isn't in Christ.
>>323295
To bring Non-Catholic schismatics and heretics back to Christ's church.
>>323306
*made unnecessary
>>323306
>To bring Non-Catholic schismatics and heretics back to Christ's church
Fortuna, benignus est enim spiritus
>>322639
Its the other way around, shes retarded. Cromwell killed all opposition and all of the taigs, and when he died apart from his son being killed it was a peaceful transition back to monarchy. When the catholics were finished once and for all with the glorious revolution, we bankrupted the netherlands and became the capitalist and naval power of the world.
>>323306
>Me praying to him and asking someone else to pray for me doesn't make him weaker.
Of course not. But you're considering God so weak or ambivalent that you can sway His mind, or that you need others to attract His attention.
>>323315
Martin Luther was probably the worst thing to ever happen to Christianity. And even he would be disgusted by Protestantism today. Despite his heresy he held to beliefs far closer to Catholicism than to modern Protestantism, even the denomination named after him.
>>323323
No. I consider what Sacred Scripture says is correct because it was written and assembled with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And God is omniscient so what He says is always correct. Obviously prayer among Christians for each other is something he wants to happen and is His will. I won't claim to know why. He can do things however He sees fit.
>>322639
Dutch Catholic here, I'm confused about the better option.
At the one hand; it was a Dutchman on the throne, literally the Master Race.
On the other hand; Catholicism is a hoot.
>>323330
>No. I consider what Sacred Scripture says is correct because it was written and assembled with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Curious that it was so heavily edited so many times, then, and that so many other divinely inspired scriptures were left out.
>And God is omniscient so what He says is always correct.
I don't doubt that. It's humans that i doubt. Such as those who might have written, "God says you have to trust everything WE say, and everything WE do is good."
>>323306
>Homosexuality is listed as a sin in scripture in and of itself in both the Old and New Testaments.
Really? Where in the New Testament does it say that homosexuality is a sin?
>>323339
Why haven't you annexed (Flem) Belgium yet?
>>323351
Because they're too Frenchified to function.
And one can only hope that the Benelux will only grow closer together in the near future - though highly unlikely
>>323347
The first official canon of scripture (Council of Carthage 397 A.D.) is the exact same one used in the Catholic church today
Before their was a bible there was a Church. Christ founded said church and Christ said that to listen to his church is to listen him.
>>323348
1 Corinthians 5:9-10
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
Romans 1:25-27
25 For they exchanged the truth of God for [p]a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
>>323378
>The first official canon of scripture (Council of Carthage 397 A.D.) is the exact same one used in the Catholic church today
I'm sure. But that's not the part I had issue with.
>Christ founded said church and Christ said that to listen to his church is to listen him.
But did He expressly say that the church has monopoly? That unless you followed them, and all their earthly dealings, His words and works no longer apply?
>>323378
And are these passages "moral law" "civil law" or Ceremonial Law?
>>323388
>I'm sure. But that's not the part I had issue with.
Alright. What is the part you have issue with?
>But did He expressly say that the church has monopoly? That unless you followed them, and all their earthly dealings, His words and works no longer apply?
Christ words and works all apply. The Church is a part of them and yes he gave the church a monopoly.
Luke 10:16
16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me.
The ones appointed by Christ are given Christ's own authority here and this authority is passed down from them to the magistratum now through the laying of hands as (1 Timothy 4:14
Verse Concepts
Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.)
>>323388
>>323413
And on a more specifically Catholic note Matthew 16:18-19
18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
The keys are a key point here. In this context, Christ is evoking an image of Isaiah 22:20-22
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliacim the son of Helcias,
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and will strengthen him with thy girdle, and will give thy power into his hand: and he shall be as a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Juda.
22 And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.
What Christ is doing is creating a divine office and giving it to Peter. It's the office of the Davidic Royal Steward. The Keys are Christ's own authority as per the Royal Steward of David (upon whom's throne Christ sits). This office was passed on from one steward to another and the new steward had all the authority of the old one. And the keys in 1st century Judea would have been Christ passing on his own authority. He gives this authority to Peter and this authority is given only to Peter. And Peter's successor is the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) the earthly head of the Roman Catholic Church.
>>323402
Moral. If it's New Testament it's moral law. The civil law would only be spoken of in regards to the at that time gone kingdom of Israel, and the ceremonial law was fulfilled by Christ as was intended and was no longer in effect.
>all these people arguing over imaginary friends
>>323413
>Alright. What is the part you have issue with?
The picking, choosing, and editing of scripture.
>Luke 10:16
That I get, and it would be fine, if the Vatican were perfect.
>>323437
The Church is a divine institution created by Christ. It is filled with fallible humans who sin personally. However the teaching of the Church itself is infallible. The Holy Spirit guides and protects Christ's church from teaching falsehoods, but individual members still sin. This doesn't however change the fact that the Church is Christ's mystical body and in it we come into communion with Christ. And Christ made it clear that the Church teaches with his divine authority.
>The picking, choosing, and editing of scripture.
Please elaborate more on this.
>>323447
>However the teaching of the Church itself is infallible.
So say those infallible humans.
>The Holy Spirit guides and protects Christ's church from teaching falsehoods,
>but individual members still sin.
Pick one.
>And Christ made it clear that the Church teaches with his divine authority.
You'll want to be careful saying that, given a lot of things the Vatican has done.
>Please elaborate more on this.
Books being left out of the Bible, and those included not necessarily matching up with those found from similar time of origin.
>115 posts
>14 unique IPs
wut
>>323453
>So say those infallible humans.
No. So says Christ
>Pick one.
I think the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of teaching infallibly through fallible humans. The bishops and priests sinning doesn't mean the teaching of the church isn't infallible. The doctrines of the Church are taught with the infallible authority that Christ gave his church. He did not say they would never personally sin.
>You'll want to be careful saying that, given a lot of things the Vatican has done.
Impeccability =/= Infallibility
>Books being left out of the Bible
There were so many books being used before an official canon was decided upon that led to problems. The Church convened a council to determine what books were Sacred Scripture and what weren't. The Holy Spirit guides Christ's church and the result of the council is infallible. If you don't accept Christ giving the Church his authority then you are rejecting Christ entirely.
>>323021
>2015
>Religion
Oh boy I am laughing and tipping so fucking hard right now.
>>323464
>No. So says Christ
Via whom?
>He did not say they would never personally sin.
Probably covering their bases there.
>The bishops and priests sinning doesn't mean the teaching of the church isn't infallible.
Even if they change the teaching?
>There were so many books being used before an official canon was decided upon that led to problems.
Oh I'll bet they did... Odd that the Holy Spirit had to guide them to make changes, rather than getting it right the first time.
>If you don't accept Christ giving the Church his authority then you are rejecting Christ entirely.
Says the people who benefit from that power.
>>323459
the focal point of christian arsehurt is its very self
>mfw raised irish catholic
>mfw this entire thread
>>323474
>Via whom?
The gospels which have been around since the beginning and early Christian tradition. Christianity was more or less a religion of oral tradition entirely before 397 and the teachings then were the same as now.
>Even if they change the teaching?
Something like priestly celibacy is a discipline and not a statement on faith or morals. Dogma and infallible teaching agreed upon unanimously by the magistratum is not changed.
>Oh I'll bet they did... Odd that the Holy Spirit had to guide them to make changes, rather than getting it right the first time.
There wasn't an official church canon. The holy spirit guided the Church when the Church as a whole settled the issue.
>>323495
>Christianity was more or less a religion of oral tradition entirely before 397
In general, but there were still written Gospels before then. Which is why there is controversy when an older version is found contradicting the current versions.
>Dogma and infallible teaching agreed upon unanimously by the magistratum is not changed.
Such as being able to pay ones way into Heaven?
>The holy spirit guided the Church when the Church as a whole settled the issue.
You mean, from the Gospels written before then? So really... they could have made it all up on the spot!
>>323429
>>/r9k/
>>/r/atheism
Unless you have a persuasive theological argument against theology, piss off.
>>323459
If you had bothered to follow the thread, it's pretty clear it's just a limited amount of people having a healthy argument about Catholic doctrine and the like.
>>323510
>In general, but there were still written Gospels before then. Which is why there is controversy when an older version is found contradicting the current versions.
Source
>Such as being able to pay ones way into Heaven?
That has never been a practice of the Catholic church nor is that even what an indulgence is.
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/myths-about-indulgences
>You mean, from the Gospels written before then? So really... they could have made it all up on the spot!
This is a good series on the reliability of the New Testament and addresses this point perfectly. I'll leave this for you to watch whenever if you're interested. (I'm fairly certain the creator is a Protestant)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TW70EEo4e2onJ4lq1QYSzrY
>>323519
>>323519
That's like asking for an astrological argument against astrology.
>>323519
>theological argument
Contradiction in terms
>>323532
>Source
Book of Giants, Book(s) of Enoch, Gospel if Thomas, Gospel of Judas, Gospel of Mary.
>myths-about-indulgences
Love how there's no mention of Rouen Cathedral, or the Fourth Lateran Council. Even the Crusades.
>This is a good series
Cheers. Can't watch it now, but will get to it at some point. But the main point was that why did the Holy Spirit only inspire the editing and discarding, rather than the original writings?
>>322639
>tfw no qt3.14 gf who realises Britain is in decline
>>322665
thas raciss
>>323549
The series addresses both of those things
>>322639
read some Belloc
When the disunited Tory government finally resigned in December 1905, and the incoming Liberals immediately went to the country, Belloc again faced anti- Catholic feeling. At his first campaign meeting, Belloc boldly responded to his electoral opponents' slogan, "Don't vote for a Frenchman and a Catholic," saying: "Gentlemen, I am a Catholic. As far as possible I go to Mass every day. This is a rosary. As far as possible, I kneel down and tell these beads every day. If you reject me on account of my religion, I shall thank God that he has spared me the indignity of being your representative."
Nevertheless, he benefited from the Liberal landslide in the January 1906 election, gaining Salford South from the Tories by 852 votes.
>>323558
wat. where i bring up race tho
>>323339
>Dutch
>Catholic
Pick one
>>323539
Hitchens was GOAT but he was generally a shittalker
>>323631
Then tell me by which objective standards theological arguments are considered valid
>>323548
I'm assuming that the concept of argument in your theology is non-existant because your theology is infallible, right?
>>323634
the calvinists didn't remove them in the 17th century when they were a small minority and they bred like cockroaches unfortunately
>>323732
hindsight 20/20, You can say that about any small group who went on to grow and fuck shit up
>Ctrl+F
>Path dependency
>No results
I thought this was an educated board..
>>323749
Welcome to 4chan™
