I have been recently interested in a topic which I feel is very unmentioned and overlooked in history - Greco-Indian cultures and kingdoms.
Can't find much reliable information on it- what happened to all those Greek people living and ruling South Asia and how it influenced Indian history? And how did they rule for so long without the natives kicking them out?
Also, hellenism General thread.
>>313245
>what happened to all those Greek people living and ruling South Asia and how it influenced Indian history? And how did they rule for so long without the natives kicking them out?
Lets start with one thing first.
India is a culture that absorbs all other cultures that come in contact with it, the whole point of Hinduism and any dharmic religion of the era and area is assimilation of any and all opinion it encounters.
The Greeks called the Yavanas were more than likely part of this assimilation and interbred with the local populace until the they diluted away into the population. They were primarily found in Baktria and Archaosia, in and around the areas known in modern times as northern afghanistan, pakistan and kazakhsitan.
Here they became the Indo Greeks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Greek_Kingdom
This has all the rest.
>>313306
Are there any modern evidences or influences of Greek cultural elements in modern Indian culture?
>>313332
Its possible, indian history is so saturated by foreign influence that it will be hard to pinpoint any particular instance, but I do know that the name Sikander a popular name in north western india, afghanistan and pakistan was derived from Alexander and meant skillful, also the consumption of wine became popular in those parts due to greek influence during that time, but this maybe conjecture.
Trying to find a demon head I fell in love with, can't track it down for the life of me.
Have some statues.
>>313245
>what happened to all those Greek people living and ruling South Asia
I know of the Bactrians.
They were #rekd by the invading Indo-Iranian Steppe Nomads
>>313392
>>313416
>indo Iranian steppe nomads
Are there any of them left today?
Every time a steppe nomad is mentioned it's always some slit-eyed Mongol, never heard of an Iranianoid-Scythian nomads today
>>313419
>>313433
Is this based of the Golden Fleece?
Amazing
>>313437
I dunno.
Probably more like Pan given how many goat fucking statues were found in Greek Bactria.
>>313481
Last one for the moment.
The Theravada apologetic document Milinda Panha, or "Questions of King Milinda", composed around 100 BCE, uses as its narrative conceit a question-and-answer dialogue between the Indo-Greek king Menander ("Milinda" in Pali) and the elder monk Nagasena.
>>313430
>Are there any of them left today?
I highly doubt it, they were present 2000 years ago as a superstrate near a particularly populous urban centers and trade routes. They would have been bred out as a people by around second or third century or by Hepahtilite and Saka invasions, or simply migrated south into the Gupta nations and been diluted there.
>>313543
Questions of King Milidna was good, it's on the A.'.A.'. curriculum.
>>313245
Why was greek culture so mesmerizing to other peoples?
>>313381
Sikander, you say?
>>315178
>kandahar is named after alexander
what?
>>315170
Great movie (and tale). 100% fantasy though, Kipling didn't know shit about the place but knew nobody else did either so he compensated it with dank stories about masons and alexander.
>>315209
It's in the first paragraph, but my brother told me this after his tour over there.
>>315225
forgot link
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar
>>315209
It's one of the Alexandrias. Names evolve.
I find it interesting that Social Contract theory is found mentioned in the Mahāvastu, a Buddhist text of the 2nd Century B.C. I don't know if it was a Buddhist invention or if it was brought by Classical philosophers.
>>313245
Tarn's work is a good place to start.
Sadly, much of the evidence we have concerning Indo-greek kingdoms are numismatics.
Most of the published work you will find is along the lines of "such and such symbol occurs prominently in this or that cache of a certain king's coinage, who may or may not be mentioned in Justin/Strabo/Sima Qian's account of the region.
There is a cool new book out called, “The Hellenistic Far East" It is worth the walk to your college's library, if they got it.
>>315209
>Alexander
>Called Iskandar in local languages
>Kandar
>Kandahar
Names yeah
>>315271
>There is a cool new book out called, “The Hellenistic Far East" It is worth the walk to your college's library, if they got it.
Thanks for the recommendation.
I wish some nigga with knowledge would educate has on the effects greek phylosophy had on the development of buddism and viceversa.
>>316473
seeing as the core of buddhist philosophy was patronized by ashoka who spread it to a shit ton of land, it was minimal
>>316480
But wasn't Ashoka relying on the services of Yavana monks as proselitizers?
How about Buddisht proselitism in the near and middle east? I've read about Buddisht tombs in the Alexandria of Egypt for example.
>>316505
>services
a few of the greek settlers, who may have been in gandhara ever since the persians forcibly settled them there, were largely buddhist during ashokan times, but that has to do with the spread of buddhism in the subcontinent backed by the mauryan treasury.
He sent a few delegations to the east, but the entire spread was a far more gradual process based on the trade routes. Hence the entire silk route being a hotbed for buddhism
They didn't last too long, the guy that fucked up Seleucus and gave him all those elephants conquered all of Greek India
>>316621
>conquered all of Greek India
What?
Last i remember he got keked to give his daughter to the harem of the indian king and then kicked out
>>316846
I said the guy who fucked up Seleucus, aka the guy you are referring too, conquered all of Greek India
>>313245
>what happened to all those Greek people living and ruling South Asia and how it influenced Indian history?
They got rekt by two invasions
First invasion was the invasion of the white huns, who were basically the Attilas of India. They razed a whole lot of cities but eventually assimilated
The second invasion was the aloha snackbar invasion, which permanently ruined north west India.
>>313332
>>315178
The afghan hat "pakol" is most likely the Macedonian "kousia."
>>315061
I think he meant alakshaendra. Not sikandar.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2588664/
Also, syncretisms between Greek philosophy and religion heavily influenced Indian Buddhism and philosophy and the resulting indo-greco Buddhism is the foundation of Chinese zen Buddhism.
If you guys can keep this thread alive for a couple hours, I work in a museum and I'm pretty sure we have some Greek-influenced Indian stuff, I could take a couple pictures on my lunch break.
>>317982
That would be nice to see, the weapons and artwork would be especially cool if you can find them.
>>317951
>heavily
>foundation
Source it.
As I understand it, the major contribution from the mingling of buddhism+greek was the artistic aspect and the addition of some greek pantheons to the buddhist god library.
I wasn't aware of Greek philosophy influencing Indian Buddhism rather the common understanding was the influence in the opposite direction. The Skeptics, the Stoics, Epicurean, etc were direct influence from the Indian religion/philosophy of the time.
>>318034
I think all we have is some sculpture, but we also have some Roman-influenced Chinese pottery.
>>318070
Just to add some reading.
>http://www.josephwaligore.com/greek-philosophy/indian-influence-on-hellenistic-philosophy/
>>318070
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhism#Conceptual_influences
>The Skeptics, the Stoics, Epicurean, etc were direct influence from the Indian religion/philosophy of the time.
It's called cultural exchange. The two cultures (Greek and Indian) both transmitted ideas and traditions.
Just as the Greeks contributed to Buddhism, Indians contributed to Greek philosophy. Skepticism & Stoicism are still clearly rooted in Greek thought.
>>318070
>>318113
From your own link:
>Evidence shows that the stories about Diogenes’ asceticism were specifically invented so that the Cynics could match the kind of indifference the Indians were able to practice. This evidence makes it doubtful the Cynics really were able to be indifferent and imperturbable. Thus it is unlikely their influence was enough to generate Pyrrho’s new way of life. More likely the Cynics, like Socrates, contributed an ideal for a way of life that made Pyrrho receptive to the Indian philosophers. Thus the Indian gymnosophists were living proof to Pyrrho that the Cynic ideal could be fully practiced in all one’s life.[43]
Of course this also run contrary to a lot of what he said prior about Pyrrho being influenced by the Indians like Calanus he encountered. Here the author is saying that the Indians merely proved to him the merit of Greek ideas.
>So it is very likely that Pyrrho was inspired by Indian philosophy, but did not learn about meditation or about the happiness that comes from being concerned for the whole. For this reason, the Stoics also would be lacking these features in their ethical system.
The author spent a fair chunk of this paper detailing all of the many customs Pyrrho and Democritus learned from Indians. This includes rolling the the hot sand and rocks, self immolation, the four tenets of Buddhism, dozens of details of Buddhist philosophy, and exploring tombs alone, and ascetics.
But not meditation?
>>318097
>>317982
So here's this. Seems I sas mistaken, this is from Afghanistan and not India. Still, Hellenic cultural spread post-Alexander.
>>318592
And then this is Chinese, from the Tang dynasty. 7th century.
>>318519
The author also makes it clear that the basis for Scepticism and Stoicism exist in the teachings of Socrates and Anthithenes (founder of Cynicism).
He merely contends that you can't achieve Scepticism or Stoicism without an Indian stepping stone between Socratic and Cynic teachings and Skepticism and Stoicism.
And to that end you're right about the influence, but I still emphasis that it was a mutual exchange and, even according to your link, Greeks contributed more 'alien' ideas to Indian culture and Buddhism than vise versa.
>>317818
he's called sikandar in india
>>318665
and that is due to islamic influences
>>313332
Don't know about India specifically, but the Greeks had considerable on Asian culture in general. The Greeks were the first who did realistic depictions of Buddha, for example, and their depictions of Herakles as a guardian of Buddha would travel through Asia all the way to Japan were they now have Shukongōshin, still carrying Herakles' club. Not to mention how Greek gods would be assimilated into Asian pantheons, as can be seen in this pic.
>>318519
>>318630
There is also possibility of an earlier trades and vague cross cultural transmission of ideas happening between the two.
Things like reincarnation were common theme. Later schools added the nirvana/ataraxia/apathiea. Its more likely the cross cultural exchange of idea took place on a grander scale rather than specific schools of thought. This is probably why many schools have similar-term with the Indians.
>>318665
He is called sikander in middle east. India the ancient texts talk about an alakshaendra who has been identified as Alexander.
More and more people in India are calling him sikander because of Islamic influences.
I know this. II am a history Major.
I've read that when the Hellenistic kingdoms were established the view of the world was changed. India wasn't a land full of monstrosities or ants that poop gold but rather the lands lying outside of India became mystical.
>>318519
>but not meditation?
Meditation was never common in the Sangha. See Robert Sharf on this.
>>313416
China also wrecked one Indo-Greek Kingdom: known to them as Dayuan, but they became buddies afterwards when China ended the Xiongnu thanks to the horses they stole from them.
>>325614
Doesn't change the authors own conclusion, which is that Hellenistic era philosophy is a direct result of Classical philosophy, with Indian philosophy/religion acting as a catalyst for the jump.
