How do leftists refute the Korea argument?
>unified culturally, linguistically, politically, etc
>undergone the exact same history until division
>after division one becomes extremely rich, stable, prosperous, etc
>the other becomes a shithole where people starve and have no rights
Is this the ultimate proof that capitalism is better than socialism?
My country is capitalist since the 70's and it's a shithole.
Can't really talk about the others, all i know is that after 40 years of capitalism in my country: >there's still people dying from hunger
>there's still homeless people
>there's still crime
>>1417885
Probably the same way "rightists" feel about the korea argument.
>ethnically and linguistically homogeneous, militaristic state founded on traditional culture, with an exceptional capacity to preserve it, no western degeneracy and consumerism
>shithole
>diverse materialist nation infested with cuckolics severed from its roots hunched over kpop and starcraft
>one of the highest standards of living in asia
You'd think both the authoritarian left and right would be BTFO by the existence of North Korea, because it definitively proves that economy trumps tradition.
>>1417885
To be fair there was a good bit of time where ROK was a shithole full of starving people
Much better now, but materialistic and greedy. Miles better than DPRK at least
>>1417885
How do rights refute the Cuba argument?
>>1417885
South Korea is not "capitalistic" in the sense of neoliberal free market ideology, they were highly interventionist and Keynesian.
Even the most ardent leftist would prefer such growth models to what we've adopted in the west.
And no, nobody on the left but the crankest tankies will defend NK.
In other words, go tip your fedora at conservapedia and stop spreading your fuckery here.
Funny that you say this, because in reality South Korea really treats like shit the North Korea refugees.
Those people lived in hell, escapade and managed to reach SOuth Korea and then they are thrown into the wild and expect to survive. It's a complete farse. The South Korea government only calls the DPRK people "brothers" for markting reasons. They don't give a shit about them.
>>1417935
Well Seoul is. Most everyone agrees the rest of the country is still near DPRK-tier. I fucking hate this meme.
>>1417943
>rich island
>*socialism*
>turns into third world country
?
South Korea was one of the poorest countries on earth until American aid took hold and they started to advance. During the 50's, prostitution for American soldiers was 25% of the South Korean GDP
>>1417885
>after division one becomes extremely rich, stable, prosperous, etc
Except that isn't fucking true at all. Both the North and South were equal in terms of GDP until the early 70's when the North stagnated.
>>1417957
>turns into third world country
>the generally accepted term for a nation allied with the soviets
Well that was hard.
>>1417984
that's second world. Third world was originally for states that weren't allied to NATO or the USSR
>>1417984
Fine then you fucking communist faggot.
Let's compare Cuba to Puerto Rico, which is an island far smaller in territory and population.
Puerto Rico has a greater GDP, greater GDP per capita, higher life expectancy, higher HDI and Gini indexes and so on.
>"b-but Puerto Rico is a US territory!"
>"P-Puerto Rico gets US money!"
Yeah Cuba would have gotten that too if they weren't communists.
>>1417956
>Most everyone agrees the rest of the country is still near DPRK-tier.
No it's not you dumb sperg. It's not even close.
You underestimate how shit the North is
North korea is best korea, kill yourself OP
>>1417885
Not a leftist, but take a walk outside Seoul and you'll see their point.
>>1417885
You can be a leftist and be pro capitalism, you know.
>>1417957
.....Are trying to say that Batista's Cuba was great? Batista's Cuba was basically a mafia state, it was corrupt as shit. Many didn't have basic items to survive during. While today's Cuba is pretty shitty, but hey I'll pick Castro over Batista every time.
>>1418489
Social democracy?
NOT
REAL
SOCIALISM!
>>1417885
No leftist (and i mean literally not a single one) i've ever met defends north korea.
On the other hand, the way south korea developed was by pretty much opposing the neoliberal dogma in every single one of its recommendations.
>>1418493
Why not real socialism?
IT'S ONLY REAL SOCIALISM IF IT MATCHES EXACTLY WHAT MARX AND ENGELS WROTE IN THE COMMUNIST MANIFESTO!!!1
But Anon, aren't Marxists supposed to be historical materialists, basing their analysis on concrete historical experiences and not on the pages of some book?
NAAAAHOOOTT RRREAL SOSIALIZZMMMM
!!!!!!
>>1417895
Did you mean your country is corrupt since always?
>>1418503
This isn't /pol/, stop writing like a retard.
Is there any serious argument to consider NK communist besides that they call themselves that? Is there any argument not to call them republican and democratic in that case?
NK is literally Juche and has been since at least 1970.
Better example is RSFSR - West Europe.
Moar bourgeois blood must be spilled!!! This is why it didn't work out in the first few attempts! Not enought bourgeois blood! Not enough revolutionary commitment! Too luke-warm so-called "revolutionaries", not ready to sacrifice more bourgeois blood on the altar of the revolution. We must try a thousand times, and if it never works we must try a thousand and one times, every time with more victims!! Yes comrades!
COMRADE BERNIE! WILL YOU LEAD US?? WILL YOU HELLP US SPILL BOURGEOIS BLOOD?? JUST ME AND YOU, AND COMRADE HILLARY! WE CAN IT THIS TIME!
Just me, Comrade Bernie, comradess Hillary and comrade Anon here, we're unstoppable! We don't need anybody else!
The alienated masses have fallen under the spell of bourgeois reactionary ideology! That's why they can't see! But we will show them, right chairman Bernie kun? And if they still refuse to see we will open their eyes! Some purging and mass starvation and a trip to the disciplinary forced labor camps should do...
Everyone must sacrifice a little! All for the revolution!
north korea is pretty much strasserist
MLs and other autists still support them tho
>>1417956
>Most everyone agrees the rest of the country is still near DPRK-tier.
I do really fucking hate this meme. What's with everyone spouting this nonsense all of a sudden?
What are you basing this on exactly?
>>1417956
Fuck off.
t. Lived in Busan, felt like any city in Japan and better than most American ones imo.
>>1417957
Castro definitely provided far greater access to public utilities, and healthcare than Batista could or would, Cuba was "rich" in the sense that it was a dictatorship sponsored by the US, giving the regime vast wealth, not rich as in, providing the most basic rights like clean drinking water or access to medicine and electricity.
>South Korea/North Korea
>West Germany/East Germany
>China/Taiwan
>Finland/Russia
Every time a country is divided between capitalism and communism, the communist party becomes worse.
That never stopped communism from being a political and cultural force and never will, because their justification is not past success and achievements, but an utopian vision of the future. Like Fidel Castro said after his first revolutionary attempt, communists always believe history will absolve them because they are on the "right side of history".
![ea24b5da6118c6d9f4c1aa128aadacbc[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/4eNh1DO.jpg "ea24b5da6118c6d9f4c1aa128aadacbc[1].jpg")
Does the fact that communism/socialism/Marxism/ has never been tried mean that it's a failure of an ideology, or just that leftists are incompetent to the point where they can't even implement their ideas properly?
>>1417885
>North Korea
>socialism
Okay
>How do leftists refute the Korea argument?
1. By knowing that I'm pretty much always dealing with ignorant hyper propagandized fools who know basically nothing of substance about the issue they think they have an opinion on and what little they do know is soaked in propaganda. Obviously that's not very convincing to anyone else, but it's a lot easier to be right when all you have to do is not mindlessly accept what you are told to think by the State and mainstream media, which by coincidence is controlled by people that have a serious grudge against the people you are referring. You can debate a cultist all you want and never "win" an argument with them in the traditional sense, but in the end you'll always know you have the superior logic because they've basically surrender critical thinking for a result they HAVE TO believe in as an article of faith no matter what the truth is.
2. NK main problem is it tries to be an autarky and that 95% of the world is controlled by capitalist powers that are homicidally hostile to its existence."Trade" is necessary for a modern standard of living. One half (the mountainous half) of an already kind of small and isolated nation is not enough to self-sufficiently build everything you need, from antibiotics to washing machines. Anyone that's ever even played a simple strategy game like Civilization V could tell you the truth of this. If you are on a little island with few resources, no city-states to trade with, no trade deals, and an entire map covered by an empire that hates your guts then you aren't going to do very well.
MAYBE if NK and SK had the exact same access to global resources, the same starting resources, the same quality of leadership NK would still do worse off over time do to a less efficient political-economy organizational structure. Maybe. We don't know for sure. That's definitely not the reality and if you think it is you are misinformed or lying to yourself.
P.S. NK isn't really Communist anyway.
>>1419488
>eftists are incompetent to the point where they can't even implement their ideas properly?
This really, most of communism/socialism/marxism is based on the idea that the state shares with it's people and that the people are as wealthy as the state is. However in practice this gives the state and it's leader a lot of power and men in power tend to not share in that power.
Left is getting cucked by left basicly
>>1419619
>most of communism/socialism/marxism is based on the idea that the state shares with it's people and that the people are as wealthy as the state is
Fucking hell anon, get your shit together.
>>1419624
that's the idea, not saying it ever happened
>>1419631
It's not though. At all.
>>1417885
>How do leftists refute the Korea argument?
They usually say that it's not "true communism".
>>1417885
america keeps pumping money into south korea, also north korea has a billion embargoes against it
>muh rights
hell of a meme
>>1417885
>Is this the ultimate proof that capitalism is better than socialism?
One also became a huge pariah state with massive sanctions.
I'd like to see any 'capitalist' country become prosperous with those conditions.
>>1419679
>I'd like to see any 'capitalist' country become prosperous with those conditions.
Well I'm guessing South Korea had sanctions from the communist world didn't it?
>>1417885
There are no people want to reunite two Koreas.
United korea is unnatural for Korean peoples.
If Koreans want to become one people, they should change both of their endonym into Goryeo.
Hangook and Joseon is not true Korea ever.
>>1417943
>>1418641
always knew the MLS was shit
fucking retirement house league, I fucking kek at nyfc """"fans""""
>>1419639
That's true though. Where in any seminal communist literature does it talk about theocratic, monarchic police states?
>>1421455
How else do you distribute the property, and keep reactionary scum down?
>>1417907
>diverse materialist nation infested with cuckolics severed from its roots hunched over kpop and starcraft
South Korea isn't particularly diverse compared to anywhere that isn't North Korea
Recently in the South Korean town of Seongju, the United States and South Korean government announced plans for a missile defence system.
Villagers of the town responded by pelting the S. Korea Premier with eggs and bottles, trapped him in a bus surrounded by angry villagers (some driving tractors), wrote complaint letters written in blood, and 13 local leaders have gone on hunger strike.
The United States has 28,500 troops in South Korea, to make sure that the South Korean government does exactly as the USA demands (or else)
>>1417951
True, but protectionism is still a fundamentally capitalist economic policy. It's definitely left of neoliberalism, but it's not "leftist"
>>1417956
>Most everyone agrees the rest of the country is still near DPRK-tier. I fucking hate this meme.
>Most everyone agrees
Uhhhhhh
>>1417994
>higher life expectancy
Actually I'm pretty sure that Cuba has roughly the same if not a slightly longer life expectancy than Puerto Rico.
>>1419619
>This really, most of communism/socialism/marxism is based on the idea that the state shares with it's people and that the people are as wealthy as the state is
Uh no, the endgame for communism/marxism is to establish a stateless, capitalist society. This is why anarchists are leftists.
>>1417885
>>the other becomes a shithole where people starve and have no rights
there's your problem
>>1422575
Excellent cherry picked image my friend
