How much did the USA contribute to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism?
>>1422125
It is almost entirely responsible, from supporting the Saudis who ideologically spread it, to literally propping up the taliban, to ruining a country held down by a strongman, allowing radicals to fill the vacuum.
Islam is a unique kind of crazy religion. Saudi is a unique kind of crazy country. Match made in heaven, thanks USA.
>our greatest allies are the Saudis and the Israelis
>mfw
>>1422125
When they decided to support pro-American Salafist absolute monarchs instead of Arab nationalist/socialists.
The Nazis I could say were the inception. Hatred of communism, Jews, and global capitalism. Hitler was most likely to be closet Muslim convert, or nearing converting.
>>1422125
90% American interventionism
10% Arabs being Arabs
>>1422205
This guy said it best
>>1422125
40% the UK, 40% the US, 10% Jews, 10% Arabs being crazy.
>>1422205
>90% American interventionism
>10% Arabs being Arabs
Nonsense, Islam is a defective culture and even if the U.S. (and Israel) didn't exist, Muslims would still be causing trouble for everybody, just as they've done throughout history.
Islam traps its adherents in a medieval mind-set and unless / until there is some kinda "reformation" within Islam, Muslims will continue to be trouble for everybody.
>>1423278
Except for the fact that Islam was reforming and was the middle east was Westernizing until the USA got involved and toppled several governments in the middle east and support the shift towards fundamentalism in Saudi Arabia.
>>1423278
> Islam is a defective culture
> "reformation" within Islam
Spotted the white "atheist" kid
>>1423489
>War on Terror created more terror
Now that makes you think..
>>1422125
The CIA backed Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan against the Russians, but then the USA was chosen over bin Laden's group to defend KSA from Saddam Hussein in 1991. This made bin Laden outraged and jealous, and that's where alot of this petty bullshit started.
>>1423489
Why do Muslims Jihad their own? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of Islam?
>>1423515
sunni and shia sects have been slaughtering each other over the centuries.
kind of like how the catholic/eastern orthodox and later protestant sects fought against each other
>>1423515
Because there are different practices of Islam, just as there is with Christianity, though much more extreme
They're like jehova's witnesses that hold you at gunpoint
>islamic fundamentalism didn't start centuries before USA was a thing
top kek, literal dindu nuffin shit from MIDF
>>1422200
t. Table talk
Fuck off with that forged shit
>>1423552
This. Radicalism has been a much bigger problem in the ME than Europe historically. However, it was really beginning to be relegated to cultural conflicts rather than open terrorism before the British and then Americans got involved.
>support radical islamists to keep commies at bay
Whew lad, that really worked out.
>>1423278
>iran
>turkey
>>1422167
I don't understand how Salafi scholars can be so based, but Salafists are pure shit.
Why do people blame the US for Saudi Arabia? It was Britain who destroyed the Ottoman empire and allowed that Goatfucker kingdom to emerge. Then it snowballed after those fuckers discovered oil.
>>1422131
/thread
thanks reagan
>>1422131
Taliban was propped up by ISI.
>>1423578
Picked up on the sarcasm, but yeah, it actually kinda did. Sometimes your options are between shit and bloody diarrhea.
>>1423599
I'm about 98% sure most Americans would agree that Communism is better than the Taliban.
>>1422131
Dont forget the overthrow of a democratically elected president in Iran because of "muh oil"
>>1423621
Taliban doesn't have nukes.
A potentially belligerent nuclear state like Iran or DPRK is worse.
>>1423621
JESUS CHRIST HOW CAN YOU NIGGERS BE THIS HISTORICALLY ILLITERATE WITH THIS TALIBAN SHIT
AMERICA SUPPORTED THE MUJAHEDEEN
TALIBAN ONLY EMERGED AFTER THE SOVIET WAR, BEING PROPPED UP BY PAKISTAN
MOST OF THE FORMER MUJAHEDEEN FOUGHT AGAINST THE TALIBAN IN THE SUBSEQUENT CIVIL WAR
>>1423630
Pretty confident the Soviets would have nukes either way.
>Taliban doesn't have nukes.
If they keep BTFO Pakistan they might.
>A potentially belligerent nuclear state like Iran or DPRK is worse.
How? There's fucking no evidence of this. NK has nukes and won't so shit with them because even Kim knows what will happen if he uses it.
Literal Islamic terrorists have caused 25+ years of pain and fear in the Western world. Why? Because we needed to stop the Soviets in a few countries?
>>1423633
>MERICA SUPPORTED THE MUJAHEDEEN
>they changed their name! They are totally different now!
>TALIBAN ONLY EMERGED AFTER THE SOVIET WAR, BEING PROPPED UP BY PAKISTAN
>Omg they changed their name so now they aren't our responsibility!
>MOST OF THE FORMER MUJAHEDEEN FOUGHT AGAINST THE TALIBAN IN THE SUBSEQUENT CIVIL WAR
(Citation needed)
>>1423635
Nukes mean they get to fund terrorists with absolute impunity.
>>1423652
Who?
Pakis already have nukes, and Obama gave $120 billion to Iran to promise it'll slowdown its nuclear program.
>>1423655
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
>>1423630
Russians or Americans are allowed to have nukes, these people are rational enough to not fuck with them
But radical muslims having nukes, now that's a different story
>>1423640
They didn't change their name you dumbshit /pol/ack, THEY WERE ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT PEOPLE who fought AGAINST the Taliban in the civil war. You are so uneducated it's palpable.
Here's what happened:
>Afghanistan has a secular dictator who promotes modernization and women's rights
>he wants to open his country to the west
>Russians chimp out, promptly organize a communist coup and dethrone him
>the communists take over and start fighting with one another
>one faction of the communists convinces Russia the commie in charge is in fact a CIA agent, he gets assassinated by the KGB and replaced by a more hardliner commie stooge
>the new communist leader starts aggressive collectivization, which plunges into absolute chaos
>civil war breaks out, 70% of the army defects and goes against the commies
>commies are now losing pretty hardcore, so they call for a Russian intervention
>Russians step in with heavy weaponry and start carpet bombing Afghanistan to the stone age, totalling 1.5 million civilian casualties
Cont.
>>1423679
>Russians or Americans are allowed to have nukes, these people are rational enough to not fuck with them
Honestly, that came from decades of experience, and during those decades people were worried as fuck.
>>1423690
People were worried because Americans were acting like fucking retards pretending the Soviets where the biggest evil of the world
>>1423698
Clearly showing that at least one of the parties mentioned was possibly not as rational as implied.
>>1423687
>THEY WERE ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT PEOPLE
(Citation needed)
You ad hominem using faggot.
>>1423702
Still more rational than anything islamic
While America most certainly did contribute significantly to the current climate of the Middle East, as the CIA and other forces have been destabilizing third world countries through proxy militants and establishing puppet governments aligned with particular interests since the 50's, people often go too far and dismiss the autonomy, fervor and militancy of the Middle Eastern people and their capacity to make moves on the geopolitical stage independent of American influence.
What we're seeing in the Middle East isn't solely based on a conflict of economic disenfranchisement between Western capitalism and the exploited third world as most people would have you believe. While these are contributing factors, the principle ideological divide we're seeing is between secular globalization/Modernism and Traditionalism.
>>1423687
>Yanks see an opportunity to help the rebels and make the war into Russian Vietnam
>they start supplying the rebels with Stingers and other weaponry
>since CIA has shit intelligence about the area, they use Pakistani ISI as a proxy, giving them basically a blank cheque to spend American ,0money as they wish
>bin Laden and his group of Saudi mercenaries arrive in the scene and build some bunkers and shit
>world oil prices plummet, USSR economy is now in full collapse mode, they eventually have to admit defeat and pull back from the war
>Mujahedeen factually win but there's so many factions of them they start infighting over who should actually rule the country, warlord anocracy starts, creating a power vacuum
>Pakistan is meanwhile training a bunch of student radicals in Pakistani islamic schools, these guys will become the Taliban
>Taliban steps in, allies with bin Laden's emerging islamic network, takes advantage of the power vacuum and starts a full scale civil war against the ex-mujahedeen
>Mujahedeen reform as Northern Alliance cordially supported by Russia and Iran against Taliban supported by Saudi Arabia
>after 5 bloody years Taliban eventually wins the war and takes over
And I guess you know the rest.
>>1423715
Intervention seems to have set secularization back many many decades.
>>1423709
>Ismail Khan
>Ahmad Massoud
>Abdul Haq
>Burhanuddin Rabbani
>Mohammad Mohaqiq
At least look up these names on wikipedia or something before you make an ass of yourself.
>>1423730
>doesn't have one citation
>why doesn't anon believe me?!?
Kill yourself
>>1423737
Citation of what exactly? Are you just trying to shitpost? I just outright gave you names of the Mujahedeen leaders, all of which fought against the Taliban and some of them got even killed by them later on. Founder of the Taliban (Mullah Omar) was an ordinary soldier during the Soviet war and didn't form the Taliban until much later.
>>1423761
Taliban was formed by Omar with the support of Pakistan, I mean if you don't know a basic fact like this you should really educate yourself before even trying to debate. Literally look up the names I gave you.
You could even view the civil war as a conflict between ethnic Pashtuns of the Taliban and northern people (mostly Tajiks) of the Northern Alliance.
there is no such thing as islamic fundamentalism. every single muslim is a "fundamentalist", it's in the very nature of that religion.
>>1423832
This
Moderate muslims are not actually muslims, but are pretending to be because they don't want to be disowned
>>1423581
Add Afghanistan to that list before it became the hellhole it is today
>>1424035
To be fair, you can blame the Soviets for that
>>1423578
Well, it worked, didn't it? Admittedly you could argue that the results were similar to burning down your garden to get rid of weeds, but I sure haven't heard of any commies in middle-east, lately.
>>1424052
People are getting run over by trucks right now, this didn't happen in the cold war.
Communism > Islamism
>>1424038
True, but that was just a list of countries that were moving towards secularism and or westernisation that got set back immensely through outside intervention, so it still fits
>>1424054
And a garden with weeds is better than a charred, smoking dirt patch where your garden used to be, but in the heat of the moment it can be hard to see that
>>1424062
Nice metaphor
>>1424054
Communism is the reason why Afghanistan has been islamist for the last 30 years, if the commies didn't overthrow Daoud Khan this shit wouldn't be happening. Not to mention the completely flattened the country with their bombing, leaving nothing but rubble.
>>1423079
>Only 10% Jews and Arabs
>>1422125
Not many mosques in the US....
>>1423737
you're claiming the US created the Taliban yet you haven't presented one citation to back up your claims
typical libtard
>>1422200
Well of course
>>1424888
Kek
>>1424896
I really love this channel
>>1422125
USA? A bit
But the full responsibility is on European Colonial Powers.
>early to mid 20th century
>middle east aristocratic old order is being overthrown by secular socialists
>USA: wtf we've got to stop this
>at last, those reds have either been couped or their nations lie in chaotic ruins
>whoa where are all these religious nutcases coming from?
>wtf we've got to stop this
USA dindu nuffin.
>>1423709
>(Citation needed)
Read a fucking history book and the civil war in Afghanistan between the Taliban and the Northern Alliance you retard.
America didn't really create the problem at all, it was already there when America started meddling in the internal affairs of Middle-Eastern nations.
The real influences are WW1 and WW2, where European fascist ideology was exported to the region and the religion became increasingly associated with that kind of political worldview.
It lead to Baathism and the Saddams and Assads, and created a situation where the only way Muslims could react to being in a dictatorship was to become increasingly conservative religiously, to the point where Islamism become a form of defense against tyrannical secularists.
This in turn was further made worse by people like Sayyid Qutb, who visited America in the 50s and was so disgusted by it, that he started spreading propaganda that Satan was behind the US, and that it needed to be destroyed.
>>1422125
We just picked up where the eternal Anglo left off
>>1423655
>Gave
Gave back is more like it. Just because we've been sitting on them for forty years doesn't mean they weren't Iranian assets
>>1424977
How about stop falling for the obvious bait, he is triggering you
>>1422125
There was no rise, it was always like that.
See Thomas Jefferson:
n 1786, Jefferson and John Adams met with Tripoli’s ambassador to Great Britain. They asked this ‘diplomat’ by what right his nation attacked American ships and enslaved her citizens and why the Muslims held such hostility toward this new nation []. Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja (the ambassador) replied that Islam:
“Was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Qur’an, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman (Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise.”
America didn't make up an ironage wargod (PBUH © ®) and conquer the middle east and spread His message by the sword for a thousand years.
They didn't create a culture where you always blame everyone else for fucking up your own civilisation.
Americans managed to drag half the world into the civilised modern age, like germany and japan.
It would have worked in Iraq and Afghanistan as well, if not for that retarded death cult.
>>1423278
Have you seen the Middle East and other Arab countries in the 70s? Ever since US intervention they have gone to shit
