Best and worst aspects of Rome's politics
See, your main problem is in the name. "Imperium"
As it turns out, when people who aren't landowners can serve in your army, there is nothing to stop them from marching on your capital instead of the enemies, and taking your stuff instead of theirs.
Once the honeymoon period of the seven good emperors ended, the legions proceeded to garrote Rome to death.
>>1405958
We can only hope.
>>1405976
leggo my legio
>>1405971
true enough, though it's clear that when rome split into two the end was near
>>1405988
See, and the thing that caused the splitting of the empire and the tetrarchy was the Crisis of the Third Century, which was caused by Rome being repeatedly conquered by its own soldiers.
The creation of the Dominate helped somewhat to deal with this, but even the Byzantines were constantly hamstrung by assassinations and intrigues.
>>1405993
did the byzantines speak greek learned-anon?
>>1405976
>America
>Rome
You Amerifats wish you were half as Roman as you are Anglo scum.
>>1406373
Trump is a fucking political genius. You're just a fucking nu-male cuck who's afraid of powerful masculinity.
>>1406373
america is rome
europe is ancient greece, with coutnries being city states, germany is macedonia i guess
it fits
>>1405993
The Crisis of the Third Century did not lead to the empire being split. The Tetrarchy was later ignored completely by Constantine and his successors. It was Theodosius who properly severed the empire between his two incompetent sons.
>>1406012
>Byzantines
You mean Romans. And yes, they spoke Greek. Though anyone with any education also knew Latin and Latin remained the primary language of law and administration even in the east for another few centuries. For example, all Roman lawyers in the east would go to Berytus (Beirut) for legal training and would do it in Latin.
>>1405971
>As it turns out, when people who aren't landowners can serve in your army, there is nothing to stop them from marching on your capital instead of the enemies, and taking your stuff instead of theirs.
Bigger problem was the fact that Roman taxation discouraged land owners from trade and seek self sufficiency(early stages of feudalism) and for self sufficiency you need men to work your land 24/7. Thus, Roman landowners often hid potential ROMAN recruits and Romans who didn't want to fight (most of them) escaped to landowners to avoid fighting.
The problem wasn't that Roman soldiers didn't own land, it was the fact that they were poorly assimilated barbarians or mercenaries whose only interest in Rome was the paycheck, that could be stolen as well.
Oh cool it's an Imperium Romaniae thread
>>1405958
Rome is shit
>>1407409
t. hans groetfreckler, proud hun
What would they say to one another if they met in the afterlife?
>>1407411
t. cuckxilia
>>1407412
>mfw greek faggots lead Roma Aeterna to its demise
>>1405958
>Imperium Romanum will never return
Good
>>1407193
>trump
when will this meme die?
>>1407443
It either lives on forever or dies this autumn
>>1407437
>implying they werent dirty tax avoiding indians
try again, anon
I think this is the best place to ask, can some of you learned men clear this up for us? I don't want to start a new thread.
>>>/lit/8267864
>>1407409
gaulic ancestor spotted
>when you destroy rome but you can never be rome
>>1405958
The imperium romanorum is still healthy m8
>>1407193
>Trump is a fucking political genius.
Trump is pretty dumb and only popular because he's part of a reactionary movement.
>You're just a fucking nu-male cuck who's afraid of powerful masculinity.
You're just a /pol/tard who can't even read properly. My criticism isn't about Trump, is that America wishes it was half as cultured as Rome. Stop sucking Trump's dick and read before replying stupidly.
>>1407934
>>1407395
>romania's empire
>>1407395
>romania
>kek
>>1407347
I was oversimplifying a bit.
It was more of a feedback loop between a declining tax base, a politically unreliable military, and declining trade.
You couldn't lower the tax burden because the military wanted that money.
The tax base was shrinking because the taxes were so intense it didn't make sense to cultivate new land. During the later stages of this cycle, the farmers were actually the first to suffer during famines because the tax collectors would take all of their food. Plagues also created population drops that couldn't be reversed because of all the taxes.
Nobody wanted anything to do with Roman officials, because they simply didn't provide enough services to be worth the tax dollars.
>>1407347
>Bigger problem was the fact that Roman taxation discouraged land owners from trade
But this was a feature of Roman society even in the earliest days of the Republic: Roman values were profoundly agrarian and they believed that land ownership and self-sufficiency were the cornerstones of a prosperous, moral society. They were suspicious of trade because trade brought foreign "non-Roman" cultural influences, which they feared would sap the moral fiber of the nation.
The problem was that when an aristocrat's chain gang rounded you up and marched you off to war, your land would fall fallow and deeply into debt because tilling your fields is tedious bitch-work while going to war means rapine and war booty. But it wasn't enough to save their farms and often they'd find their farms foreclosed on when they came home from the campaign (often by the same asshole who marched them off to war in the first place) and they'd be out of work and completely dependent upon their general to secure a plot of land to act as a pension. When the Romans attempted to remedy the situation they began providing their soldiers with wages and state-supplied equipment, but refused to provide them with a pension, leaving those well geared soldiers completely dependent upon their general to secure for them a future other than that of a penniless veteran begging on a street corner. Because the state refused to provide for them, the soldiers were more loyal to their general than they were to the state, which bit them in the ass during the incident with Julius Caesar, and exploded into a full blown calamity in the 3rd century.
>>1409440
>literally means land of the romans though
>>1409229
Who'd have thought the pope was a Christian
>Are our opponents going to reply that the Roman Empire could not have been increased so far and wide, and Roman glory could not have spread, except by continual wars, following one upon another? What a satisfying explanation! Why must an empire be deprived of peace, in order that it may be great? In regard to men’s bodies it is surely better to be of moderate size, and to be healthy, than to reach the immense stature of a giant at the cost of unending disorders - not to rest when that stature is reached, but to be troubled with greater disorders with the increasing size of the limbs. Would any evil have resulted, would not, in fact, the result have been wholly good, if that first era had persisted?
"Foolish men think religion is wise, wise men think religion is foolish, politicians think it is useful"
-Seneca
>>1411151
>the poor are being robbed, widows groan, orphans are trodden down, so that many, even persons of good birth, who have enjoyed a liberal education, seek refuge with the enemy to escape death under the trials of the general persecution. They seek among the barbarians the Roman mercy, since they cannot endure the barbarous mercilessness they find among the Romans.
>although these men differ in customs and language from those with whom they have taken refuge, and are unaccustomed too, if I may say so, to the nauseous odor of the bodies and clothing of the barbarians,16 yet they prefer the strange life they find there to the injustice rife among the Romans. So you find men passing over everywhere, now to the Goths, now to the Bagaudae, or whatever other barbarians have established their power anywhere, and they do not repent of their expatriation, for they would rather live as free men, though in seeming captivity, than as captives in seeming liberty. Hence the name of Roman citizen, once not only much valued but dearly bought, is now voluntarily repudiated and shunned... What can be a greater proof of Roman injustice than that many worthy noblemen to whom their Roman status should have been the greatest source of fame and honor, have nevertheless been driven so far by the cruelty of Roman injustice that they no longer wish to be Romans?
>>1407201
america is not rome by any means, if america were truly rome we would not have black lives matter, neighbourhoods separated by race, no sub cultures, simply just being a true american.
>>1405971
Marian reforms were a mistake
>>1412469
Top
Fucking
Kek
>>1405976
so cringey... And I am unironically a "Conservative Revolutionary"!
>>1412240
Dafak is this roubble rouse.
Roma was exactly like you said, even though im right wing myself, it had ghettos or at very least suburbs for ethno-linguistic groups, had ethnoracial rebellions and fucking wars (what is judea rebellion and celtic rebellion and whatevertheracerebellion?) and only people with conections either by shady bussiness or old blood could get into positions of power.
America is truly like that too
>>1407201
>america is rome
You are in a long line of nations and cultures that have claimed some continuation with Rome, whether direct or spiritual. It's always empty and stupid, please stop!
>>1413230
name a previous nation as globally present, economically ominous and culturally powerful as the US of A
>>1413246
The British Empire, which also saw themselves as successors to the Roman Empire?
>>1413218
perhaps, however it certainly did not allow for the endorsement of acts such as these
>>1413704
>he doesn't realise the map he posted is alternate-history
Bit embarrassing desu
>>1414125
nah bruh, I was only pretending to be retarded
>>1413704
>Russian Republic
>>1414187
Muh Kerensky and Lvov
>>1407395
>Latin
>Empire
4chan is Rome.
Double chan is either Byzantine or West Rome
Essjaydubbayous are the Seljuk.
Reddit is the Ottoman Empire.
>>1415789
Would Tumblr be the Germanic and possibly Celtic Barbarians to the north?
>>1415789
4chan is Byzantium. It's older, it has continuity and tradition, it's full of degenerates and pseudo-intellectuals.
Otherchan is HRE. A confusing clusterfuck of thousands of boards (states) which bases its legitimacy on supposed oldfaggotry and renewal of old empire.
Reddit is probably the Umayyad caliphate or something.
>>1413704
That map gave me cancer.
>>1405958
Mhhh rome . It is something hard
>>1407326
Constantine divided his empire too. His sons just murdered each other and the other heirs to "re-unify" the empire. Constantine also ruled for a significant time with a co-emperor in the east.
Constantine wasn't against the Tetrarchy because it divided the empire, he was against it because he didn't like the successory laws and the symbolical divine family of emperors as devised by Diocletian. Constantine was perfectly fine with the empire being administratively divided as it's proven by the fact that he wanted to divide his empire not only between his sons but other relatives too.
>>1416830
4chan is Byzantine/Rome.
Otherchan is HRE/West Rome. Due to being a split the original 4chan, and being the far weaker of the two. It also might be the more iconic community of GG, not sure though.
Reddit is probably going to kill 4chan, that's why I claimed it was the Ottoman Empire.
>>1416830
This. Moot 4chan = Rome, Hiroshima 4chan = Byzantium (still Rome but different, and will get more different with time).
>>1416830
Upvote
