Is there any example of terrorist group, being able to influence the historical outcome to archive their goals? Basically did terrorism worked in the past? Was it important from historical point of view or is it just people died basically for nothing? What the best example of terrorism success?
What constitutes a terrorist depends on your point of view. Most of the independent countries in the world today are the direct result of the actions of terrorists.
Ho Chi Min got it to work.
>inb4 George Washington
French revolution sure, but a few tar featherings and the occasional asset destruction doesnt even touch todays terrorism. It was just a generic rebellion.
>>1396035
You could easily call the ANC, specifically its MK military wing, a terrorist organization, and they were in fact on the US designated terrorist organization list from sometime in the 80s until less than a decade ago. They ended up getting the end of apartheid and Nelson Mandela became president, so they did okay. Does them using some isolated terrorist tactics make their opposition to Apartheid wrong? Of course not, but it doesn't necessarily justify the violence either.
>>1396935
I'll clarify that that ANC could have been called a terrorist organization *in the past*, not now obviously.
The Black Hand
>>1396035
CIA is a terrorist organization
I'd say they've been pretty successful with many of their operations
Central and South American drug cartels.
>>1397177
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU
>>1397029
>Not groups who used terrorism and then won due to other circumstances.
Okay. Would be a pretty boring thread since most of us can really think of anything off the top of our heads. What examples do you have that meet your criteria?
>>1396035
>>1396047/this
AND
The Post Exodus Hebrews made it work.
(See Numbers 31 - Slaughter of the Midianites)
No! You let the little boys live. Go back and kill them and take the virgins as booty.)
Simply terrorism. I can't think of one. (changed my mind, see below) Use of Guerilla and Terror tactics during an actual war seem to work well though. Genocide (indiscriminate slaughter) gets the job done.
>>1397233
>Central and South American drug cartels.
Good answer.
Given this criteria, organized crime, in general, and especially in Asia, has achieved their goals quite effectively using terror.
>>1397206
>CIA...they've been pretty successful with many of their operations
Individual operations yes. But what long term objectives have the CIA achieved.
>>1397486
>But what long term objectives have the CIA achieved.
Crack cocaine epidemic among urban blacks
Instability in the Middle East
Fed LSD to unwitting subjects and scared the everloving shit out of them
Created ISIS
>>1397029
Lots of successful revolutionaries used absolutely atrocious tactics, killed ludicrous numbers of civilians, and won. (Hell, maybe even most of them.)
Even more often, such groups have wound up becoming political parties in their government, after which they've generally wound down the violence.
ISIS has actually carved territory out for itself, which is pretty impressive, given their nature and their lofty end game goal.
As I'm sure someone has already said, the primary difference between terrorist and revolutionary, is perspective.
>>1397503
>Crack cocaine epidemic among urban blacks
[citation needed]
>Fed LSD to unwitting subjects and scared the everloving shit out of them
Sure, but what objectives were achieved?
>Instability in the Middle East
>Created ISIS
I would argue that this was caused by US military intervention and our subsequent withdraw, leaving a power vacuum. Would like evidence that shows it is the objective of the US and the CIA to keep the Middle East unstable.
What is the end game? What is the CIA trying to achieve? They have had successful (and many unsuccessful) operations and have even overthrown governments, but what long term objective are they trying to achieve? Their end game should be security of the United States and planetary stability. (They haven't done so well,)
>>1396035
Zionism.
>>1397611
>Crack cocaine epidemic among urban blacks
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/10/gary-webb-dark-alliance_n_5961748.html
Wasn't the goal, but it happened. Goal was to fund anti-communist efforts abroad.
CIA has succeeded in several goals over the years, some of which have changed history - dunno if you could technically call them a "terrorists" group though, since they are an arm of an existing government. (Just a very spooky arm.)
Never, ever, give the CIA the mandate "by any means necessary".
The SS
>>1397663
>CIA has succeeded in several goals over the years, some of which have changed history
The CIA seems to have an even larger impact on history when they fail their goals.
Though they're so dern secretive, I suppose it's hard to tell.
>>1397666
Also a government arm... But satan-trips witnessed anyways.
>>1397503
Don't forget the time they bombed an airport in Nicaragua while two U.S. senators were there.
>>1397486
>Individual operations yes. But what long term objectives have the CIA achieved.
Operation PBSUCCESS: Where the CIA propagandized and bribed Guatemalan president Jacobo Arbenz out of office.
Operation Happy Days: In which the CIA produced porn staring an Indonesian president Sukarno look-alike to discredit him. (Alright, they made it, but never used it, I just like this one, especially since they were considering doing the same with Saddam and Osama.)
Pakistani Vaccine/DNA Collecting Drive: In which the CIA propped up a fake vaccination program to gather DNA samples to confirm Osama Bin Laden's family was in Abbottabad. (Resulting in Muslims putting a halt to vaccination programs all over the world.)
Benghazi: In which it was revealed that the CIA had a massive deployment in Libya since 2011 (coinciding with the start of rebellion), and they betrayed themselves when heavily armed CIA agents dispatched from a hidden base to respond to the crisis.
Operation Mockingbird: Where it was revealed that the CIA had been bribing and threatening journalists all over the country, as well as embedding their own reporters and news casters into nearly every media outlet in the US, planting and suppressing news stories for decades. This was all outed in the in 1976 Congressional Church Committee.
Operation CHAOS: In which the CIA had been infiltrating various US protest and social movement groups during the Vietnam War, as a continuation of the FBI's COINTELPRO operation. This was revealed in the Watergate scandal.
...
>>1399800
The Phoenix Program: In which the CIA executed and tortured tens of thousands of civilian targets during the Vietnam War. Stopped during a 1971 Congressional hearing, it was merely replaced by the F-6 Program, which continued long after the war was over.
Operation Ajax: A propaganda and bribery campaign that resulted in the removal of the first democratically-elected leader of Iran, to be replaced by a western-friendly former Nazi sympathizer, Fazlollah Zahedi, who in turn made Bahram Shahrokh, protege of Joseph Goebbels, his director of propaganda. (Which is among the reasons Iran hates both us and Israel.)
Afghanistan: Where the CIA setup training camps for the Mujahideen and funneled nearly half a trillion dollars of funds and weapons to them over a decade during the war with the soviets.
...and that's just a few...
...never mind all the ones we don't know about - and may never know about.
Well ISIS do have their own state now.
>>1399800
I want to work for the CIA's porn division
>>1399813
Yeah, but it's also dwindling in size and power everyday.
They've almost been entirely pushed out of Iraq now, the last major city they have left is Mosul.
most notable example would be the Irish Republican Army that played a crucial role in the formation of the Irish Free State/Republic of Ireland.
There were hardly any formation battles in the Irish Independence war, just hit-and-run tactics and bombings until the British granted Ireland independence in exchange for keeping Ulster.
World War 2 partisans/resistance also played their role, especially the Yugoslavs who chased the Germans out of most of Yugoslavia before the Red Army even showed up.
>>1396039
>Most of the independent countries in the world today are the direct result of the actions of terrorists.
That's clearly bullshit.
>>1400180
NTG, but if not most, a hell of a lot... The difference between a revolutionary and a terrorist is pretty much solely dependent on whether or not they win.
Most of these revolutions for independence were extremely bloody, and often involved piles of dead civilians, as did a whole lotta political movements that weren't about independence at all, but merely forcibly changing the internal power structure.
Gavrilo princip, the guy who killed Franz Ferdinand wanted a unified southern Slavic state. One war later = yugoslavia
>>1396035
Historical IRA in 1923 achieved British withdrawal from southern Ireland
Jewish Haganah in the 1940s got the Brits to leave Palestine
Arguably the modern IRA achieved major concessions from the UK
The PLO achieved a measure of independence for the Palestinians by 1990s, before it all fell apart
well first off you need to have a solid definition of what terrorism is which is tricky because its an essentially contested concept
I would argue that there are many successful groups who have used political violence which targets civilians intentionally, however compared to guerilla campaigns there are far more failures than successes
tl;dr, terrorism doesn't work generally but there are examples, the the Irgun, Hamas to an extent, IRA to an extent and Hezbollah with the 1980s bombings, and guerilla warfare is a much more useful and reliable alternative
>>1400407
oh i forgot, that terror cell in Spain with the Madrid bombings worked, Spain refused to join in the Iraq war afterwards
>>1400417
Well, given that the Basque separatists at ETA, who didn't give a flying fuck about the Iraq war, took credit for it, but for some reason, no one would believe them, I'm not so sure.
