The reason you guys hate Turkey and the Ottoman Empire is because of Islam. Just fucking admit it. Not because of 'muh oppressed slaves' or whatever like that.
The Ottoman Empire was on par with Persia, China, and Rome. They basically did the same shit and did so in a more difficult timeperiod.
>>1394228
It's part Islam, part butthurt greeks.
>>1394228
Dude even other Muslims hate Turks
I admit it, what's your point?
>>1394228
I would never deny it, I hate mudslimes
But I don't hate Turkey or the Ottoman Empire. Or Islam, for that matter.
/his/ is going to be influenced by /pol/ or /pol/-esque thinking no matter what, purely out of the website that its on (4chan). The best thing to do is to soldier on and try to have decent conversation on history regardless.
With that said, every now and then you can catch some decent threads on here about the Ottomans, though more often than not it will be pure shit.
Nice try, but the real reason is that it denies very established /his/torical facts. Armenian genocide is the main example. There is nothing wrong with Islam, but revisionism is a cancer.
I don't hate them
Only /pol/ does with their double standards
I think the fact that left-wing academia constantly shits on Western civilization for it's crimes, while at the same time praising the Ottoman Empire as the most progressive pre-modern civilization, is what creates so many animosity against it.
>>1394263
Wait they do?
I hate and love Turks at the same time. Hard to explain.
>>1394228
>The reason you guys hate Turkey and the Ottoman Empire is because of Islam. Just fucking admit it.
Yeah, pretty much.
>>1394263
This explains it very well. One example is how Western nations must make up for "the crimes of colonialism", yet Turkey gets a free pass despite also being a colonial power in Africa (Libya).
>>1394228
I hate Turks because they're ugly, their language is ugly and their culture looks like a ripoff rapebaby of Arabs and Slavs. Also they claim to be descended from Central Asian Mongoloids despite the fact that most of them look white or brown. (inb4 some butthurt white nationalists say they don't look white, bitch, to us real Asian Mongoloids you all look white).
>>1394228
You act as if there is anything the least bit wrong with hating Islam and brown people in general.
>>1394263
The Ottoman Empire did literally nothing wrong though.
I like this Turk pretty well.
Also Atatürk was pretty badass.
>>1394409
If you consider genocides badass, sure
Ottoman empire is pretty funny desu. The amount of butthurt they cause to Europeans and minorities they lorded over is hilarious.
>>1394228
it's actually because they turned the balkans into a permanent shithole, but also because islam too yeah
>>1394433
What makes you think I don't?
>>1394433
Do you not?
>>1394228
Not only Islam. They also killed off east rome and is now flooding Germany with their subhuman kind
>>1394249
>Nothing wrong
>Islam
Wew lad.
Everyone except the most die hard islamic/progressive fanatics would be willing to admit there is at least *something* wrong with islam even if it is just the lack of bacon, or some trivial shit like that
>>1394228
>The Ottoman Empire was on par with Persia, China, and Rome
No, it wasn't, it was the shittiest empire to ever exist in the middle east, and no, it's not about Islam, the Abbasid Caliphate was pretty great, compared to the piece of shit that was the Ottoman, and actually made some significant advances in science and math.
Roaches Out pls
>>1394597
If it's your religion and you think there's something "wrong" with it you're not following it too well.
At most you'd find people saying "well it's not wrong, but it's all up to interpretation" as is the case with Christianity and well, everything.
>>1394594
Glorious.
Based Turks taking out Byzanshits AND the eternal Kraut.
>>1394364
>i hate ugly turk
>post plastic asian girl
>>1394228
I don't hate Turkey or the Ottoman Empire, I only hate the cockroach ottoboos who say they didnu nuffin
>>1394228
It's perfectly valid to hate a place because of a religion. Islam sucks, Christianity sucks and monotheism in general sucks.
The world would be a better place today if Abraham had been devoured by wild animals.
>>1394470
Whattup /pol/?
>>1394631
I'd rather fuck a "plastic asian" girl then a "turkish girl" who has a mustache.
>>1394594
>now flooding Germany with their subhuman kind
That was like 50 years ago
>>1394364
What does that have to do with you ?
Why do you care also turks speak a turkic language whch makes them turks.
If they aren't turks almost nobody is what they are saying that they are.
>>1394263
Pretty much this, and also I am Byzantiumboo
>>1394263
The three Eurasian Empires like Russia, AH and Ottomans are generally points of interest by Western Scholars because they tried to base their identities outside of the Nation-State meme when everyone else around them (their own people included) was busy doing so.
>>1394328
Because Colonialism wasnt the case for the Ottomans in Africa.
Colonialism heavily involved othering. Like the best a native man can be under colonial rule was to be some menial. While an Egyptian/IFrican cunt can be a government official under the Ottoman Empire.
Not all Empires are Colonialist Empires bruv.
Yeah, so?
Islam is a steaming pile of diarrhea, it ruins everything it touches.
>>1394662
And there are at most 3 million turk in germany which ahs a population of like 60-80 million. Also many are going back to turkey after being done with their education.
>>1394228
Yup fuck Islam. Turkey would be such a nicer place without it. Spent most of my youth in Turkey. The people are really westernised it would be just another European modernised country if it wasn't for fucking islam.
>>1395179
Lad, Turkey isn't much better or worse than their white Christian neighbours.
>Erdogan
>Islam
>Muh Byzantium
>>1394384
This
>>1394228
Because there's constant Turk shills and cockraoches who push out the retarded meme that the Ottoman Empire is the heir of Rome.
>>1394409
Ataturk is a little shit head.
I don't understand how you Westerners can worship Turkey's version of Kim Jong Un.
>IT'S ILLEGAL TO INSULT HIM<
>THERE ARE STATUES OF HIM EVERYWHERE<
>YOU MUST HAVE A PICTURE OF HIM IN YOUR OFFICE IF YOU'RE THE OWNER<
He's the reason for why Turkey is so conservative and nationalistic. He's the reason why a party like MHP-
Look up operation Ergenkorn or Valley of The Wolves (book) and you'll understand who they are-
could exist.
Turkey is a failed state, supporting ISIS with oil-money and weapons.
Ottoman Empire on the other hand was amazing. Suleiman the Great was perhaps the best Emperor at the time.
He was able to expand his empire, without emptying the state coffer and maintaining stability in his empire.
The citizens of Istanbul wouldn't have been effected by the war the slightest.
>>1395323
What's wrong with being conservative and nationalistic? He tried to westernize Turkey, and he also tried to weaken/modernize Islam. Are you one of those liberal human rights types?
>>1395411
>Being a dictator is alright as long as You are """"Mordern""""
I bet you also praise The Chinese Communist Party
>>1394228
>The reason you guys hate Turkey and the Ottoman Empire is because of Islam.
I agree with this. Ottomans destroyed the only legitimate successor state to the Roman Empire and took Anatolia (which is central to ancient western history) away from Christendom. They also seemingly get away with being overtly nationalist/revisionist as well as genocide denial which probably pisses off european nationalists. While I can respect them prior to the 19th century, they quickly became responsible for the retardation of the middle east and southeast europe. All this and butthurt greeks.
>>1395454
>dat pic
truly the turkish peole's greatest contribution to the advancement of the human race
>>1395419
So you are saying it's better to fall into anarchy and irrelevance? Thats an easy thing to say coming from a powerful western first world nation. But I bet if you had to choose whether to keep your power and wealth and safety, or to keep your democracy and stop a dictator you'd pick to keep your safety and wealth so you don't get raped by foreigners who want to exploit your nation.
>>1394228
Ottoman Empire was a just the typical monarchy of the time with the local magistrates and lords fighting over power while most sultans just fucked around.there were a few good sultans as there were a few byzantine emperors who were good leaders.the difference is the religion,islam was the main theme of the Ottoman Empire as Orthodoxy was to ERE/Byzantium.But the people of the areas they controlled needed education and trade and the ottomans lacked the spiritual and naval capital to push the population into a better state.byzantine emperors,as shitty as some were,always had at least some respect towards money and spirit,maybe beacause of the roman world,maybe because of the greeks who were the main people of the empire or just because the christian faith in good hands is jsut a bit more free than Islam.
>>1394597
There are a lot of things inherently wrong with Islam but i think what he meant is there is nothing inherently wrong with being Muslim.
>>1395419
Except Ataturk and Mao/PRC are 2 different things.
>>1395323
Because he brought Turkey into the future? Do you really think life would be better for Turks if he didn't exist?
>>1394228
Ok Turkanon, here's why I, personally, hate your country.
Besides the point that everything west of Hellespont should be given back to the Greeks.
The main reason is what modern Turkey is, simple as that. The Ottomans were actually pretty cool guys. Prior to the 20th century, they largely let the Greeks and Armenians and others be, live and let live. Enver Pasha was a faggot, but besides him, most of the Ottomans were ok.
They did some really cool shit, yes they conquered large parts of Europe, but they did it by being better than the defenders, and they lost eventually by losing their advantage and being outclassed, this shit happens. They contributed a great deal of art and architecture and science to the world, and they kept the middle east largely pacified for almost 4 centuries, which is an impressive feat.
The problem was what happened after WW1. Turkish republicanism and Turkish nationalism are fucking disgusting. Ataturk is literally on a par with Lenin and Napoleon in terms of absolute scum.
Since 1922, Turkey has gone from a relatively multicultural, art and science producing, tolerant place to a fucking cultural sewer. The process of Turkification was the biggest mistake that country has ever committed. They literally made the entire country a vile, shitty fucking bland as fuck Islamic banana republic, purely because they wanted social cohesion after they destroyed the Ottoman Empire, the only legitimately cool Islamic empire to have existed since the Abbasids. They also abolished the Ottoman caliphate, the only thing keeping Islam together, and stopping it from being the absolute retard mode ideology it is now.
Republican Turkey is an ignorant, regressive, revisionist, pseudo-fascist shithole. Given the heights the Ottoman Empire achieved, it is actually staggering how far Turkey has fallen in the last century, and how much disgusting shit they have perpetrated against people who were once their own citizens.
>>1395991
I mean if Greeks and Armenians cut up Turkey, where would the Turks go?
Ataturk was a reactionary. Was it bad? Yes. Was it necessary? Possibly.
>>1396180
>Where would the Turks go
To the ovens, that's what. The actions of the Turkroaches in this past century, their general attitude towards everyone around them (all of my neighbors are hidden enemies that want to carve up our country), show that Turks can't be trusted to behave around other ethnic groups.
In an ideal world the Turks would have been genocided instead of the Greeks and Armenians, although with the growing Kurdish population in their country there is still a chance of redeeming Anatolia.
>>1396189
Hello KIDF
>>1394228
nah, its just got a shit knock-off aesthetic
>>1395323
>IT'S ILLEGAL TO INSULT HIM<
>THERE ARE STATUES OF HIM EVERYWHERE<
>YOU MUST HAVE A PICTURE OF HIM IN YOUR OFFICE IF YOU'RE THE OWNER<
And you think you could get away with insulting the sultan?
Or not having some religious/power symbolizing monument everywhere?
In the ottoman empire?
Also yes, thats called authoritanianism, deal with it westerner, the muzzies love this shit and they got the greatest statemean they could have ever hoped for in relation to their culture and needs.
>>1395700
What? Why not? If we can admit that there is something inherently wrong with Islam, and Muslims are people who follow Islam, wouldn't the logical conclusion be that there is something inherently wrong with Muslims? It's as if someone said "well I can agree that murder is bad" and then they go and murder someone. If murder is bad, so are murders the same way that if Islam is bad, so are Muslims.
>>1394228
I don't hate countries, that's pleb tier.
>>1396275
Hello, subhuman turk. Go back to raping boys and fapping to delusions of "Turan".
>>1396335
Many Mulsims are forced into the faith. If they question it, or even think of looking into other religions/atheism they risk being executed. In Western countries they might escape execution, but will certainly be shunned by their communities and families for freethought. You can't blame most Mulsims when they have to deal with that kind of pressure.
>>1396335
>having a religious belief is equivalent to ending another's life without their consent
wew lad
>>1396393
So then what are you trying to say the proper response should be? Should we just say "oh well they were just brought up that way" and ignore their real actions and beliefs? At a certain point you have to take a stand to end the cycle and say that there are things wrong with Islam, and therefore it's wrong to follow Islam. Otherwise people will just keep making excuses and nothing will ever change for the better.
>>1396397
When nearly half of all believers of a religion think that execution is the correct response to people leaving that religion, what's really the difference?
>>1396397
you moron, when the muslims become a sizeble portion of western countries and starts pushing for this crap, i wonder if you will still be saying "wew lad memes! it's just le religious belief: inconsequential"
>>1396418
>Things that will never happen
>>1394228
all the inhabitants of what now is turkey 1000 years ago were christian who spoke greek, armenian or kurdish.
Turkey is the last part of the western world that was lost to Islam.
It is the opposite of Spain, who were lost to Islam in 711, but managed to reconquer their country.
It is also sad because the conquest of Constantinople is the end of the roman empire.
>>1396393
>Many Mulsims are forced into the faith. If they question it, or even think of looking into other religions/atheism they risk being executed.
No they're not, that's Saudi or ISIS land and thats it.
Did you know the hijab is banned in most work places throughout the muslim world?
Did you know muslims are humans trying to get on with their lives who arent secret agents trying to take over the west like in your conspiracies?
much obliged
in all seriousness though I don't hate anyone since hate is very visceral, only Turks I've ever known are kebab shop owners and one who was a bit of a nigger back in secondary school
>>1396432
>He actually thinks "Syrian" refugees are assimilating
>>1396432
yeah like whites will never be a minority in america
muslims already account for over 20% of the population in some cities in europe, and their fertility rate is like twice that of locals
>>1396432
100 years ago nobody though South Africa would fall. 50 years ago nobody though America would fall. And today you're saying there's no way for Europe to fall to the barbarians. When will you people fucking learn?
>>1396465
>he fell for the Eurabia hypothesis
>>1396453
How many are there?
Whats the white population of europe?
>>1396469
Really, nobody thought the country in africa, 90% black, would ever become ruled by its own people? Don't be fucking stupid.
If the entire population of the middle east migrated into Europe whites would still be the majority.
Stop talking absolute shite.
>>1396477
>If the entire population of the middle east migrated into Europe whites would still be the majority.
they're not going to the Balkans, Poland or Belarus you spoon, and you're completely ignoring birth rates where foreigners have surpassed the natives in countries like France, Sweden, Germany
>>1396472
>memes xD
do you know the percentage of muslims in brussels? i bet you don't. look it up and tell me it's not well over 20%
>>1396495
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurabia#Demography
>>1396477
Do you understand how population growth works? Do you understand that white European birth rates are well below replacement rates, while Muslim birth rates are well above? Do you understand that the median white European age is in the 40s, while the median age for Muslim immigrants is in the 20s? I don't know if you're stupid or if you're baiting, but it's working
>>1396409
>When nearly half of all believers of a religion think that execution is the correct response to people leaving that religion, what's really the difference?
So thinking is equivalent to murder now?
>>1396418
Other religious groups have already tried pushing for laws based on their religious belief. But there's a difference between religious belief and actually pushing for laws. Whether pushing for those laws is motivated by religion or not is essentially irrelevant.
>>1396465
>their fertility rate is like twice that of locals
>and it'll always be that way! there's no rational reason based on demographics to explain it, god must have just infused them with the magical ability to outbreed others for the lulz
>>1396501
>couldn't look up brussels
>>1396492
Birth rates =/= population size. This is like saying if you're going 20 mph at the start of the race and the other guy's going 10 mph, that you're guaranteed to win.
>>1396492
>>1396504
The birthrates are not significantly higher. They drop off by the 2nd generation. European birth rates are not below replacement.
Even if all those things were true, white Europeans are still so numerous in comparison that the immigrants will still simply be absorbed into the population.
Stop believing bullshit scaremongering.
>>1396515
Wow a single city!
>>1396515
Source? I'm hoping it's not some meme site.
>>1396515
>The Pew Research Center notes that "the data that we have isn't pointing in the direction of 'Eurabia' at all",[49] and predicts that the percentage of Muslims is estimated to rise to 8% in 2030. Most academics who have analysed the demographics dismiss the predictions that the EU will have Muslim majorities.[50] It is completely reasonable to assume that the overall Muslim population in Europe will increase, and Muslim citizens have and will have a significant imprint on European life.[51] The prospect of a homogenous Muslim community per se, or a Muslim majority in Europe is however out of the question.[52]
>>1396523
>European birth rates are not below replacement.
I think they are in some cases, but that's really just due to current population sizes being above optimal, doesn't mean they'll keep declining forever.
And all this fear about "the whiteness being bred out of Europe" or whatever is just emotional attachment to the "white race" as it currently exists, rather than desiring the betterment of humanity. By definition, if Muslim genes become more common in the European population, it just means they have greater genetic fitness which means the population is being improved through natural selection.
>>1396510
>It is completely reasonable to assume that the overall Muslim population in Europe will increase, and Muslim citizens have and will have a significant imprint on European life.
Straight from your shitty wikitard article
>>1396511
>So thinking is equivalent to murder now?
It's more than just thinking, are you being purposefully obtuse? Hundreds of millions of people across the globe live in Muslim nations with apostasy laws.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/05/28/which-countries-still-outlaw-apostasy-and-blasphemy/
>>1396535
"Genetic fitness", are you fucking retarded? The minimum viable population you need to avoid inbreeding is just 5000. Europe has hundreds of millions of people, it doesn't have any "genetic fitness" problems you fucking cuck.
http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/pub/a-magic-number
>>1396558
>It's more than just thinking, are you being purposefully obtuse? Hundreds of millions of people across the globe live in Muslim nations with apostasy laws.
And? Being a Muslim is not the same as instituting apostasy laws.
>"Genetic fitness", are you fucking retarded? The minimum viable population you need to avoid inbreeding is just 5000. Europe has hundreds of millions of people, it doesn't have any "genetic fitness" problems you fucking cuck.
This has nothing to do with "minimum viable population". What, you think evolutionary improvement is supposed to stop once we reach a certain population size?
>>1396558
>your foolish cited sources are no match for my feelings
How does it feel to be a living example of the horseshoe effect?
>>1394234
its a good thing
>>1395419
dictatorship with a good leader is better than democracy.
>>1395725
How?
>>1396558
lel
Get lost with your conspiracy theories, eurabia will never happen
>>1394433
mustafa kemal had nothing to do with the events of armenian question you fucking asswipe
>>1396604
>armenian question
>>1396569
>And? Being a Muslim is not the same as instituting apostasy laws.
Nearly half of all Muslims support those laws, I've stated this like 3 times how many more times do I have to state it before you read what I'm writing.
> What, you think evolutionary improvement is supposed to stop once we reach a certain population size?
Any population larger than 5000 doesn't need outside sources to have "genetic improvement". A population larger than the MVP can support itself. There is not a single country in Europe even close to the MVP, this is a non-issue.
>>1396570
>You've cited something from the link I posted myself, better pretend you didn't and resort to memes
K...
>>1396602
You think Muslims inside Europe will not impact the political systems at all?
>>1395323
hahahahah this is what erdogan's pleb dogs believe. ataturk was the only thing good ever happen to turks after maybe mahmud ii. suleiman was a shit tier sultan who bankrupted the state. I hope you are a troll because if not it is disturbing to think what kind of people discuss history on this board. fucking hell.
>>1396615
>claim Europe is headed towards a Muslim majority
>get BTFO
>shift goalposts
>>1396615
>Nearly half of all Muslims support those laws, I've stated this like 3 times how many more times do I have to state it before you read what I'm writing.
>Nearly half
So the average Muslim doesn't support those laws.
>Any population larger than 5000 doesn't need outside sources to have "genetic improvement". A population larger than the MVP can support itself. There is not a single country in Europe even close to the MVP, this is a non-issue.
Evolution is a process that should be constantly occurring. It has nothing to do with "minimum viable population". Inbreeding and evolution are two separate issues. The reason inbreeding is bad is because it inhibits evolution by insufficient genetic diversity, but that doesn't mean preventing inbreeding means evolution is no longer necessary.
>You think Muslims inside Europe will not impact the political systems at all?
Gays in America have had political influence, does that mean we should call it "Gaymerica" now?
>>1396525
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_European_Union_by_Muslim_population
here
> People still shitting on Muslims when Christians killed more people in history
>>1396629
>does that mean we should call it "Gaymerica" now?
yes
>>1396528
>8% in 15 years
>not a sizable portion of the population
what's a sizable portion then? not relevant until above 50%?
>>1396655
I completely agree that Europe needs to stop letting in Muslims.
However, the Eurabia hypothesis is dumb, and regardless of your political views, you should always rag on someone if they're acting like a dipshit.
>>1396649
>i live in """history""" not today
>>1396649
People are shitting on Muslims today because Muslims are chimping out today, anon.
>>1396666
when did i ever say eurabia you strawmanning mongoloid, you're the one who spewed the retarded meme
>>1396627
Where did I say that Europe is headed towards a Muslim majority?
>>1396629
>So the average Muslim doesn't support those laws.
4 in 10 Muslims supports death for apostates, 5 in 10 Muslims supports death for adulterers. So yes, it's accurate to say that the average Muslim supports murder based on their religion.
>Evolution is a process that should be constantly occurring.
Evolution is a process that is always occurring. Anytime two people fuck and have a baby, you're watching microevolution occur.
>It has nothing to do with "minimum viable population". Inbreeding and evolution are two separate issues. The reason inbreeding is bad is because it inhibits evolution by insufficient genetic diversity, but that doesn't mean preventing inbreeding means evolution is no longer necessary.
You can't "prevent evolution", unless you stop reproducing altogether. Even inbreeding is evolution. All I'm seeing here is a huge misunderstanding of what evolution actually is.
>Gays in America have had political influence, does that mean we should call it "Gaymerica" now?
I don't understand what this even means? Gaymerica? I mean sure, why not...
>>1396684
>Evolution is a process that is always occurring. Anytime two people fuck and have a baby, you're watching microevolution occur.
Yes, and by trying to control who has sex with who due to your ridiculous devotion to memes you're working against evolution.
>You can't "prevent evolution", unless you stop reproducing altogether. Even inbreeding is evolution. All I'm seeing here is a huge misunderstanding of what evolution actually is.
You're trying to ban Muslims from Europe because you're afraid of them "diluting" European genetics. Whereas if you knew the slightest bit of evolutionary theory you'd know that natural selection cannot "dilute" genetics since those with superior traits are the ones who are more likely to reproduce.
>I don't understand what this even means? Gaymerica? I mean sure, why not...
You seem to think that Muslims having political influence in Europe means you have to rename the continent after them.
>>1396716
> ban Muslims from Europe
Yeah! Let's destory Bosnia in yet another one civil war!
I hate turkish imperialism and its history. It's one of slavery, genocide, forced conversions, continuous wars etc etc etc. I hate turkey since they're the offspring of all of this. Give back rumelia and constantinople, it's not a turkish, and by extension, a muslim city.
No, I am not greek nor Balkan
>>1396750
>bosna je srbje kraj 4 ever
>>1396716
>Yes, and by trying to control who has sex with who due to your ridiculous devotion to memes you're working against evolution.
I don't know what this is even supposed to mean
>You're trying to ban Muslims from Europe because you're afraid of them "diluting" European genetics
No, stop putting words in my mouth. My first and foremost objection to Muslim migration into Europe is cultural. Muslims, especially Muslims from the third world, shouldn't have any part of the political process in traditionally Christian/secular nations in Europe, regardless of their race or ethnicity. In a democracy, demographics are the key to the future and a large influx of culturally-alien foreigners cannot be good for the natives.
>Whereas if you knew the slightest bit of evolutionary theory you'd know that natural selection cannot "dilute" genetics since those with superior traits are the ones who are more likely to reproduce.
Wow okay. First of all, the 'superior traits' aren't favored through evolution. Traits that maximize having the most offspring are favored through evolution. This doesn't mean the smartest, or the fastest, or the strongest, or the best, or w/e else. This means that whatever fucking traits lead to the most offspring in a particular environment will be favored. A nice example of this is the decrease in the overall world IQ, due to the fact that smart people have less children than stupid people on average. In our current world society, relative stupidity is the favored evolutionary trait over relative intelligence.
>>1396716
>>1396792
Continued-
Second of all, it’s no secret that European phenotypes are recessive. Light skin, light eyes, light hair, and distinctive facial bone structures only exist because the prehistoric ancestors of modern Europeans purposefully breed to increase the prevalence of those traits. Now, I never said the word dilute, that’s you. That said, I think it would be a travesty if the European phenotype was breed out of existence. Obviously it would take hundreds of years for that to happen, if at all, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable in the far future considering the trend we’re currently on. After all, Muhammad was supposedly a fairly pale man with ginger hair and blue eyes. How many living blue-eyed, ginger Saudis can you think of off the top of your head?
This link is the source of my dysgenics example-
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289607000463
>>1396668
Pretty sure the US army have killed more people in the past decade than any other organization on the planet.
>>1396793
>Light skin, light eyes, light hair, and distinctive facial bone structures only exist because the prehistoric ancestors of modern Europeans purposefully breed to increase the prevalence of those traits.
Why did the ancestors intentionally try to increase the prevalence of these traits? Why were they found to desirable?
>>1396793
>After all, Muhammad was supposedly a fairly pale man with ginger hair and blue eyes.
quality bullshit
>>1394228
Ottoman Empire was never interesting for me, just like French revolution - Persia, Rome, China all interesting.
>>1394228
>The Ottoman Empire was on par with Persia, China, and Rome.
Arguable during that period, but at its' greatest extent, it was nothing compared to what the others achieved during their greatest extents.
I hate the fact that Anatolians took Turkic language, butchered its' culture by incorporating awful Islamic components - specially Sunni Islam, then seemingly considered themselves one and the same with real Turkmen. You can say the same thing with Azerbaijanis. It's basically Stockholm Syndrome.
>>1396849
To add to this... Modern Turks make it their livelihood to steal the works of other cultures and claim it as their own.
They're caught between a rock and hard place. Turmen will never consider them real turks and they can never claim their Hittie past.
>>1396813
>let's ignore the muslim barbarians, look over here the red herring us army
the young turks youtube channel is that way
>>1394228
I actually kind of like the Ottomans but will join every banter against them because I'm a massive fanboy for the persian and spanish empires. I like Atatürk a lot too.
>>1394228
>on par with Persia, China, and Rome. They basically did the same shit
Ottoman culture wasn't up to par the sophistication of those empires. While their military accomplishments are more impressive they didn't really do a whole lot of innovating in terms of art and architecture. There's only so many miniatures, Byzantine-styled mosques, and geometric rugs and you can look at before they start to get boring.
feel free to correct me, I'd love to learn more about them
The Turks ruined the Balkans and I can never forgive that. They weren't even that great at war they kust took over a politically unstable and already fragmented Balkans that the turks made worse.
>>1394281
Explain
What's to admit? Muslims are scum and the more you know about history the better you can understand that they're scum. Napoleon slaughtered the Mamluks like the animals they are and the only reason the shitskins aren't exterminated is because of the British.
>>1396335
I'd love to see how they differentiated religious viewpoints from cultural ones
but I guess if an actual Islamic scholar explained the religion to you it would be """"""taqiyya"""""
It took them 7 crusades to realize god favored the turks
>>1397337
yet we still get 5 threads a day about it from confused /pol/ kids desperate to feel meaning in their lives
>>1394228
>The reason you guys hate Turkey and the Ottoman Empire is because of Islam.
Not really. There are two reason why are firstly that orientalist have praised the shit out the 'tolerance' and 'foreword thinking' of them and the mongols more then a life time. They having given their crimes a free pass for a long mostly because in the minds of the first orientalists writers Slavic peoples did not really matter. Secondly I think that it is modern geopolitics creeping in. Out of all the NATO members turkey is the one that the US has come to regret the most. Since just before the Yom Kippur War the Us Turkey relationship in the civilian sphere has been going bitter slowly.
As for why... back in 1967 I want to say Israel-US relationship hit big issue. Israel did not stop work on nuclear weapons when the US threatened to not sale F-4 fighter jets to them. About 2 1/2 years later the US changed its mind on the subject and felt that in needed Israel as a ally in region to badly. Then the US gave a not small amount of aid during the Yom Kippur War. The Turkish military of the time was very understanding of the matter, because the reasons why the US did what it did made good strategic sense. The Turkish intelligence (more so) and academic communities (less so) took a bit of a issue over the matter. By the late 1980s Turkish intelligence was know for being difficult to deal with for the US.
Based on current actions there is some talk (most baseless I add) of Turkey getting kicked out of NATO over said actions.
>>1397436
>Turkey getting kicked out of NATO
Shit that will never happen. I know it's /pol/'s wet dream but turkey is an important country and since they are patching up their relations with russia, the us just can't risk turkey going to the russians.
>>1397335
I don't care about why Muslim scholars believe what they believe, and frankly I don't care about why any Muslims believe what they believe. I care about the physical results of what they do in the real world. Hundreds of millions of Muslims across the planet show their support for Draconian Islam-based laws, and as a result countries across the planet actively enforce those laws. Their societies by and large are as far from Western values as you can get, nothing good could happen as a result of letting this cancer fester.
>>1394364
> the east asian mutt thinks he is a descendant of tengri
Lmoaing @ ur life
>>1396627
you and your muslim apologist friends maybe should take a class on reading comprehension
>>1394228
if ottomans were christians I would support them installing an ottoman and returning all their territories in balkans and such.
>>1394228
Poles aware of history don't hate Turkey, as we know they tried to prevent our partition removing the thick geopolitical balance there was.
Why did you forget to mention the Great Seljuq Empire?
The "Turkroach" shit is forced by buttmad nationalistarts from /int/, it's basically bad calque of the Cockroach Britain from Krautchan.
When you see something like this report and hide, ignore, sage, don't reply. There is likely some Gayreek or other Yugoshit, Analbanian Shitptar behind that post.
The Magyar Protties petitioned Turks for intervention in the defence of their religious rights, am not fuggin gidding you btw.
>>1398032
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocephalous_Turkish_Orthodox_Patriarchate
Get this recognised worldwide and St. Ahmed in the martyrologium, insta protip in the sense of profit
>>1394228
It was a very inhumane empire, more so than normal.
However, yes, I will admit that Islam is the biggest reason I hate the Ottomans. Had they been Christian, I would have loved them, for the same reasons I am so quick to excuse any Crusader wrong doings.
Having a harem sounds cool, too.
>>1398888
this
i hate turkroaches as much as the next gut but ottoman history was pretty cool
>kidnapping children and brainwashing them into becoming your elite army
>that steppe-horde tier logistics combined with gunpowder and firearms
>big ass cannons
>putting a peasant pirate as your grand admiral
>in 1845, Ottoman Sultan Abdülmecid declared his intention to send £10,000 to victims of the Irish potato famine, but either British diplomats or his own ministers requested that the Sultan send only £1,000, so as not to donate more than Queen Victoria, who had sent £2,000.[4] The Sultan sent £1,000 along with three[3] or five[5] ships full of food. The British administration allegedly attempted to block the ships, but by local tradition the food arrived secretly at Drogheda harbour and was left there by Ottoman sailors
le eternal anglo
I feel weird reading this thread as a Turkish Byzantine. I think hate can be divided into two categories one is the historical hate in Balkans-caucaussus,middle east which I find normal, plus after you get over the "you guys killed my ancestors in my village 356 years ago" meme you can get along with them pretty well, average romanian-serb-croat etc has far more bigger problems and different beefs than turkey (exceptions exist cyprus,armenia etc where tensions are still high and turkey still matters). The second is the islam and current chimpout of erdogan, which I cannot blame also, If you know nothing about Turkey, its secular tradition etc you will see it as sandnigger country which harbors terrorist, and it is true, Erdogan really take over the country and fucked up in Syria pretty badly.
All in all Ottoman Empire was always the great other the only other empire which shares a little bit of this alienation and foreign invader meme is Russia, maybe thats why in both countries there is a huge "them westerners" rhetoric, alongside accusations towards "western wannabe's"
>>1398924
byzantinist* fucking auto correct,
oh also there is the "I would condone every ottoman savagery if they were Christians I just hate them for subscribing to islam" crowd whom I'm not sure whether they are memeing or whether there are really fucked up christian extremist.
>>1394228
Turks are neither Turkic, Muslim nor European.
Discuss.
>>1398939
Turks are neither holy, Romantic, nor empirical.
>>1394228
aside from the usual butthurt from armenians/greeks/etc
its
1. turkish immigrants in europe who have give turkey a bad rep
2. late islamistation (but they dont acknowledge that they had a part in it with praising erdogan for years, but when he turned he was the antichrist)
>>1394228
I don't like them because they are muslim, yes. And thus I don't like turks.
>>1394228
If you ask the Balkans, we do have reason to fucking despise your whole host due to fucking up the region for centuries. Even our fucking anthem has a stanza dedicated to hating you and your bullshit .
Various reasons. Islam, conquering and enslaving the Balkans, destroying the last remaining vestige of the Roman Empire, being conniving roaches, etc.
>>1394228
>The Ottoman Empire was on par with Persia, China, and Rome.
Not seeing this. The Ottomans contributed basically nothing to the world. Science, government, culture . . . nothing. They were basically just organized bandits.
>>1400277
>Contributed.
Spotted the progressivist.
I'm pretty sure unifying the Western Half of the Middle East after a centuries of Post-Abbasid chaos was a godsend.
>>1400277
Organized bandits is literally the definition of government under some political philosophies.
muh coercion.
>>1394364
>>1394228
I don't like Turkey (considering it was built by a crypto-jew who worked to destroy the Ottoman Empire), but I do like the Ottomans.
I've always been fascinated by the Turkics, how a bunch of nomads out of literally nowhere just came down and swooped the middle east and dominating it until just a century ago, and I also love the part when their more oriental cousins came down and gave the muslims such a fright that they thought Allah was anrgy at them and it was the end of everything.
But I also don't like them because of Islam, as a Christian thinking that one of the greatest Christian Empires of history being destroyed by a bunch of Mohammedans really brings me heartache.
I wish the Ottomans converted to Christianity, to the Pope in Rome at best (Would've solved the whole Schism, too bad the Sultan and the anti-western faction of the Eastern Church prevented re-unification from happening), and to the Eastern Othodox at the least.
Absolutely 100% correct. I dont like islam and it diminishes how I view the Ottoman Empire.
First of all, it's because turks are roaches
Secondly, muslims deserve hatred you heathen filth.
>>1394249
Kill yourself, islam is cancer
>>1400290
But by then nothing was left.
>>1397335
Kill yourself.
>>1402403
If you want that remove humanities from the title, a lot of edgyness, obnoxiousness and blantant faggotry is displayed under the pretense of "its humanities also I can post as such"
Having a history board and a history board only would prevent this mess, as cathoshits orthocucks mudslimes and protties would shitpost elsewhere, while extreme nationalists would move to /pol/ which basically became /int/ with more aggresive posting.
Invasion of Cyprus in 1974.
>another why does /his/ hate X thread
because it's 4chan OP and to fit in here you are supposed to spew irrational hate
>>1402422
This
Turks like to boast that they did it to protect the Turkish Cypriots but in reality they fucked it up for all Cypriots, Greek and Turkish alike
>>1396669
this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battles_and_other_violent_events_by_death_toll#Terrorist_attacks
>>1394249
>Armenian genocide is the main example
>very established /his/torical facts
kek
>>1395323
>>IT'S ILLEGAL TO INSULT HIM<
>>THERE ARE STATUES OF HIM EVERYWHERE<
>>YOU MUST HAVE A PICTURE OF HIM IN YOUR OFFICE IF YOU'RE THE OWNER<
those were introduced by a conservative party long after ataturk died though
kemalism ideology is a heavily reformist ideology
>Turkey is a failed state
>Ottoman Empire on the other hand was amazing.
lol okay you are one of those
>>1394228
I somewhat dislike the Ottomans just because they made the Roman Empire go extinct. But really I loathe Turks.
>>1402823
>One of history's major players. of the 1400s-1600s. 1700s even for the ME.
>The Republic of Turkey
>Not a failed state in the shadow of it's predecessor.
>>1402859
Turkey staganted mainly due to unwillingness to do Economic Reforms
Ironicly Erdogan has a huge hold on power thanks to being willing to break the mold
>>1395419
>starts with the premise that dictators are inherently bad
>fails to explain why
>>1398914
Fuck Ireland
>>1400009
ieși acasă, Radu
>>1402399
>he doesn't know about the cross-boarding /pol/acks
>>1397310
>Napoleon slaughtered the Mamluks like the animals they are
Napoleon also tried to invade Russia in the winter. He's not really an ideal role model.
>the only reason the shitskins aren't exterminated is because of the British.
Nah, it's really the fault of the British that the middle east is so fucked up to begin with.
>>1404087
It's partly the fault of the British, partly the fault of the Cold War, and partly the fault of the Middle East that it's so fucked up.
