Would this be a viable tactic? Historically speaking of course
Mods will delete this thread if there is any good in the world
>>1386944
That is quite possibly the most retarded battle tactic I've ever seen
>>1386944
Replace the elves with rocks then maybe
>>1386944
Biggest disappointment ive ever had in a film
>Oh man this is going to be awesome
>wtf thats lame
>>1386944
I can't express how grateful i am now for not watching that movie
>>1386944
what game?
![054[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/Oc11LEh.png "054[1].png")
>>1386963
>rocks
>not spears
>>1386944
>getting pinned between your enemy and your allies' pikes
>>1386995
Happened on occasion in history, especially in some of the pre-peloponesean Greek wars.
>>1386944
>How to lose a battle in 10 seconds
Not enough elves.
What was the point of the shield wall?
>>1387036
element of surprise, duuh
>>1386944
>countercharging a giant charge
>with your backs against a spear wall
yeah no its utterly retarded
>>1386944
Well...
First off, it's relying absolutely perfect timing on everyone's (including the enemy) part. A few seconds late and the homosexuals don't have anywhere to jump in. A few seconds early and all you're accomplishing is replacing your sturdy front line of heavy infantry with formation-less light infantry.
Next, watch as those spearmen barely flich as grown men in metal armor springboard off them. Real world physics just isn't going to let that shit fly, and the orcs will charge straight into a pile of tangled idiots rather than a coherent line.
Hollywood rules dictate that the bad guys must use predictable methods while the good guys use cunning and balls to triumph. In any real scenario, though, this tactic would be roughly as effective as selling your swords to buy anal lube. Those orcs with their boring, brainless conventional shock charge are going to rout the pretty-people coalition with these tactics.
>>1386944
>is jumping over spearmen viable
are you actually retarded
Putting this retarded movie aside, what's the best strategy against shielded pike-men in wall formation assuming you have no way of flanking them?
>>1387602
Fire
>>1387602
Surrounding them I suppose. Or does that count as flanking?
>>1387602
Get your most agile troops to jump on the pole of the enemy pikes and use it as a springboard to flip over the whole formation and attack them from behind.
>>1387602
double handed pikemen (longer pikes) with plate armor
>>1387602
You withdraw, or you get your own pikemen, or you get some artillery
>>1387602
There isn't really a good counter which is why it remained the standard battle tactic across the world for hundreds of years
>>1386944
>Jump over the fucking defensive shieldwall
>Get pushed back by heavily armed infantry charging at you
>Have a spear puncture your back
WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG
>>1387639
The only viable thing is to use calvary charge. Sure, you're gonna incur losses when they hit but at least they can break that shit up.
>>1387602
Longer pikes. See: Philip II
>>1387602
throw fire on them, call them names, ballista, maybe try just walking around them.
>>1387655
mate I don't know what to tell you, spear walls are pretty much the textbook counter to cavalry.
>>1387655
>I love the sound of 300 wounded screaming horses.
>>1387602
Guns
>>1387780
They are a counter to infantry - they can just march and poke them.
A charging calvary incurs loses upon clashing but they break the wall and trample the majority of army behind it.
>>1387602
Get an elite squad of great big men with long two handed steel swords to go up and just start breaking pikes and skirmishing.
>>1387842
>horsemen will break heavy infantry
not necessarily. Those men are front-line soldiers with good discipline, and they are indeed heavy.
Maybe cataphract-type armored horses could do a job like that.
>>1387842
Have a think a little harder about what happens when a line of horses meets a line of spears, and then what happens when those horses die on the spears and fall down in front of another row of horses running in behind them
>>1387602
Artillery. Cannon the shit outta the fuckers.
>>1387842
>Calvary counter pikes formations
You're fucking retarded. What else, do you counter fire by pouring lighter fluid over yourself?
First off, it's actually quick difficult to convince a horse to charge headlong into a wall of spears, but even if they don't buck and spook before reaching the pikes, that first row of cavalry who makes contact with the pikes will go down, and the row behind them's moment will be ruin and they will either breakoff or try haplessly to try the same damn thing. Even if the first row of pikemen are disoriented by the charge, the rows behind them were not, as pike formations always incorporate multiple rows of pikes for this very reason.
The best way for cavalry to counter pikes is to flank around while the pikes are engaged with heavy infantry or another pike group.
>>1387859
With enough speed the first line with fall down upon pikemen. Another line can have a bit of distance after the first so the horses can jump over the mess.
Forming the charge in shape of an arrow breaks the wall with less losses too.
>>1387602
The only hope of beating a pike formation head on is if you somehow break their unit cohesion. If you have gunpowder weaponry or some kind of heavy ranged weaponry, use those to hammer the formation and break their cohesion and then exploit weaknesses in the line. If that cannot be accomplished, save yourself the defeat and just withdraw.
>>1387893
Good luck trying to get a tightly packed formation to vault over obstacles en masse you fucking idiot, even then, they will still get gutted.
>>1387882
>the pikes are engaged with heavy infantry
Engaged as in slaughtering your guys with march-and-poke?
>>1387893
I have never seen someone display such ignorance regarding battle tactics in my life.
Please tell me you are baiting.
>>1387893
>>1387893
Ask yourself, why would the horses end up running into a line of pointed spears?
>>1387906
>march and poke
Not that guy, but you're fucking retarded. Tying down a phalanx with heavy infantry while your cavalry flanks them is literally a textbook way of handling a spear wall. The fucking Romans perfected that shit, read a book.
>>1387906
Heavy infantry as in infantry that can reasonably hold their own and tie up a pick formation. Heavily armored masses of troops don't just die from a poke retard. Additionally they don't need to break the pike formation or even kill any of them, really, they just need to keep the pikemen's pikes engaged while they are flanked and slaughtered from behind, either from other infantry or cavalry. It's how the Romans defeated Hellenic pike formations.
>>1387895
>If that cannot be accomplished, save yourself the defeat and just withdraw.
>well guys it seems we have no clean way of defeating them, so we need to let them sack the city
>>1386972
yeah, thought I would see some battlehardened troops try to defend wave after wave, but no >hurrdurr elves fucking hell
>>1387602
Throw pots with burning marijuana inside into the formation.
>>1387926
>implying he wasn't talking about an open field battle
>implying walls of pikes can be applied to a siege situation for the besieger
I'm sure they'd have loads of fun being shot so full of arrows they look like reverse porcupines.
>>1386944
Are you retarded?
>>1387926
>using a defensive formation to attack a city
>>1387602
memes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oimIMZHNRVI
>>1386944
>Me brave brothers lock shields and assume phalanx formation
>I can see the damned orcs gettin' close
>Plan's to skewer as meneh of em as we can and hold fer a miracle
>Feel a sudden weight on mah shoulder
>Dozens of those faggoty tree fuckers are goin over our heads and straight into the enemy like a buncha retarded kids jumpin into the shallow and ofa pool
fackin' NIFE EERS
>>1387938
>just touching a pike is enough to kill you
Fucking Rome 2
>>1387941
This why elves are made for raping, no for fighting.
>>1387945
>Implying charging into a wall of spears at full sprint while completely naked won't instantly tear your shit up.
German skin, folded one mirrion times.
>>1387951
But they'd be impaled on the fucking spear, or they'd stand for a few seconds, you nerd.
That shit literally shows them
>touch front of pike
>instantly fall to the ground dead
>>1387957
the...the spears could well be poisoned
t.CA apologist
>>1387957
That's just because the new Total War Engine can't handle collision physics for shit. The old engine was superior in every way for handling melee combat.
>>1387967
I know, hence
>fucking Rome 2
Ditching Warscape shit fucking when, CA?
>>1387982
They're gonna milk a couple more games out of it yet, then they'll probably make a new engine that's even worse than Warscape
>>1387997
They introduced that shit with fucking. Empire. A game that is seven years old. CA is a bunch of lazy bastards and I've gone from a "buy on release" Total War fan to knowing I will be disappointed in every release past Napoleon.
>>1387932
It's not a "defensive formation." In real life nobody was dumb enough to run into a wall of pikes. The point of the formation was to advance.
TW:WARHAMMER CRACK WHEN
>>1388012
>the phalanx isn't a defensive formation
What in the fuck am I reading
>>1388015
A true statement.
>>1388004
Shogun 2 and Attila were good though. I still prefer Rome 1 and Medieval 2 to anything CA puts out now, though, but they're solid games.
Now if only they'd make their battle AI not retarded or a cheating bastard. They've been at this for, what, 15 years? And the AI is still pants-on-head retarded.
>>1388021
I never played Attila, I was still hurt from the disappointment of Rome 2 (which I stupidly pre-ordered to get the Greek states dlc) that I didn't want to buy anymore games from them, it looked far too similar to Rome 2 to have actually been an improvement like Napoleon was to Empire, I might be wrong though, haven't played TW:W either
>>1388017
No, you're actually retarded. The only time the phalanx was applied offensively is when faced with another phalanx in an open field, e.g. the battles between Greek city-states. When used in warfare between nations it was applied to protect and defend chokepoints. And your reasoning that "nobody was dumb enough to run into a wall of pikes" is equally retarded, because how the fuck else are you going to advance in a mountain pass with a phalanx blocking the way and no alternative routes?
Also, if you applied the whole "the point of the formation was to advance" thing to actual battles, you realize that is as equally retarded as your other proposals, because a phalanx can only advance at a slower than walking pace, meaning it would be shredded by skirmishers and other light infantry or, even better, flanked by the enemy before it could engage.
>>1388032
Attila was what we hoped Rome 2 would be. Also, playing as Western Rome in that game is extremely challenging, especially one higher bonuses.
>>1387602
Romans took pike formations head on. Just push the pikes away with shields and stab stab with gladiua
It's a completely retarded tactic, even for a movie, but it doesn't matter because Tolkien's elves are all grossly overpowered. Part of why LotR is flawed.
>>1387951
>Implying charging into a wall of spears at full sprint while completely naked won't instantly tear your shit up.
Yes, but that requires you to be both retarded and suicidal. Someone who isn't a retard will use his shield and attempt to manouvre past the pikes rather than charging in like a moron.
Not saying it'll work per se, just saying that shields exist for a reason. That reason isn't to act as a counterweight for the sword btw.
>>1386944
>Dwarves form perfect shield wall
>Orcs got all focus on it
>Just jump straight over it instead of flanking
What was peter Jackson thinking?
>>1388185
>What was peter Jackson thinking?
About how much fucking money he was making from schmucks who eat these stupid battle scenes up, and probably how it will wind u p in a WatchMojo "Top 10 Most Epic Battle Scenes" video.
>>1387009
Yeah, and what happened to those guys?
>>1388039
Not the guy you're responding to, but Jesus, you're retarded.
>The only time the phalanx was applied offensively is when faced with another phalanx in an open field, e.g. the battles between Greek city-states.
And, you know, lots of other times. Asculum, Issus, Cynosephalae, that battle in Thrace as part of the Delian war that I'm blanking on, etc. You know, battles where phalanxes charged and weren't fighting other phalanxes.
> When used in warfare between nations it was applied to protect and defend chokepoints
Yeah, like those famous swiss pikemen.... oh wait.
>because a phalanx can only advance at a slower than walking pace,
Herodotus and Xenophon both mention that the prime thing that made the Spartans so dangerous is that they would have their phalanxes advance at a dead run, with a bigger impact than a slower advance. Xenophon remarks that lots of other forces would also charge at a run, except they didn't have the Spartiate unit cohesion, which led to a lessened impact, but they were sure as fuck not restricted to a slower than a walking pace.
>>1387107
I like this answer, but...
>>1388169
this is true, although there may be an inference that the orcs are significantly lesser.
No, it's not a good tactic for normal human beings. Other people said throw rocks and spears instead of elves, and indeed this was done, as with arrows, sling munition, dead bodies...
>>1388169
>I have never read Tolkien: the post!
You should look up how those ancestors of the Silvans did against normal orcs in the 1st and second ages when they weren't protected by people who had actual metal weapons and armor.
Tolkien elves aren't "overpowered" at all, if anything, they're often mentally/spiritually crippled and ineffective, and require the humans to pull their shit out of the fire time and time again, because magic in his world doesn't actually help you fight very much.
The one time the Elves really are militarily effective on a grand scale is when the Noldor come over for the first time, and that's strongly implied to be a result of their smithing expertise, a "tech advantage" if you will. When they start arming either more primitive elves or humans, those guys do just as well as the Noldorin do.
>>1387602
just encircle them and wait for them to either starve or attack your own shielded pike-men
>>1388251
i think he meant that hackson's elves are grossly overpowered, which is true
>>1388251
I'm pretty sure most people get this sense because of Legolas' unreal speed and proficiency with a bow, plus, in general, what appears to be exceptional martial skill with swords by elves in general, while other races are rather lumbersome and brutish. Elves are depicted as exceptional combatants while the individual Orcs are rather not, save the exceptions of the leadership.
>>1386944
To be fair, when I play a hellenistic faction in EB, I usually put a good old 240 man unit of light infantry in front of my phalangites, simply to soak up arrows and slow down the enemy. Placing elite immortal elves in this position is the worst possible move in the history of warfare. This is the job of light auxilias you never intended to pay in the first place.
>>1387036
To keep the elves stuck in the meat grinder until they are fully depleted.
No retreat. No surrender.
>>1387602
Gunpowder.
Or if we are talking about the times, then do what the Romans did with the short sword and grab the spear with one hand and get in close and stab around the shield.
>>1388334
Does that work on phalangites or just hoplites? Because phalangites have 3 other guys already pointing their pikes at you and a whole lot more behind them even if you get the first pike.
>>1388286
People get this sense because of the movies. There are no scenes in the book where Legolas 360 noscopes orcs and. In the entire trilogy the amount of combat is like what, 1/10th of what there is in the movies? Not even Aragorn comes off as an amazing warrior, instead of a one-man army he is depicted as a great ranger and a great leader, those are his main attributes.
3rd Age Orcs aren't amazing in combat on average because they're small and not really intelligent, nor care about much else than brute forcing. Uruks and the like are much more dangerous, and again even with the low power Orcs there are no scenes where a trillion of them get taken down by just a handful guys, all that shit is Hackson's invention.
>>1387602
You suddenly reveal to them that 70% of their forces were your guys all along and win. I thought this was your area of expertise, Alpharius.
>>1388387
That's not ENTIRELY right, although I do agree with the thrust of your assertions.
If you posit that Aragorn can fight around as well as Boromir, you've got a guy who could kill 20 orcs, alone, before they deal with the problem by standing way off and shooting him full of arrows.
And he and Eomer hold the gate at the Hornburg alone until they shore things up from the inside and escape through a postern door.
And he, Imrahil, and Eomer are stated to be the only three who managed to be in the thick of the melee at Pellenor and escape unwounded, so he is pretty tough, but you're right, combat in the books is a lot less "intense" and frequent. If you go back and look up that fight with the orcs in the chamber of Mazarbul, instead of a huge bloody free-for all followed by a cave troll, its
>Orcs charge
>Fellowship fights a bit
>The nine of them kill about 10-11 orcs of an undetermined number
>Orcs run.
>One last guy makes a stab at Frodo but gets chopped down.
>3rd Age Orcs aren't amazing in combat on average because they're small and not really intelligent
They also tend to be cowardly and undisciplined.
>Uruks and the like are much more dangerous
Even Uruks are implied to be smaller and weaker than a normal human, albeit tougher than regular orcs.
>>1386944
Just... why?
>>1386972
>he actually fucking thought BotFA was going to be good after the second movie was utter shit
>>1388409
>If you go back and look up that fight with the orcs in the chamber of Mazarbul
My recollection of that was the fellowship literally escaping out a back door. Am I misremembering something?
How did we go from this
>>1388423
to this
>>1386944
Even from a LoTR standpoint why would the dwarves agree to let the elves jump on top of them?
>>1387141
>Next, watch as those spearmen barely flich as grown men in metal armor springboard off them.
Elves weigh 0kg or some shit apparently. That's why Legolas can platform on falling rocks.
>>1388430
>>1388418
Well, if you want to re-read it
https://malikammar.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/j-r-r-tolkien-lord-of-the-rings-01-the-fellowship-of-the-ring-retail-pdf.pdf
It starts at about page 450.
A brief summary is
>Stop to read book
>Hear orcs approaching because they stood around and read a book like a bunch of dumbasses
>Bar most of the doors except the easternmost one, that's the escape path
>They don't want to run though with enemies just behind them, especially given how bad the light is in Moria.
>Decide to make a brief fight before retreating.
>How many there were the Company could not count. The affray was sharp, but the orcs were dismayed by the fierceness of the defence. Legolas shot two through the throat. Gimli hewed the legs from under another that had sprung up on Balin’s tomb. Boromir and Aragorn slew many. When thir-teen had fallen the rest fled shrieking, leaving the defenders unharmed, except for Sam who had a scratch along the scalp. A quick duck had saved him; and he had felled his orc: a sturdy thrust with his Barrow-blade. A fire was smouldering
in his brown eyes that would have made Ted Sandyman step backwards, if he had seen it.
(Sorry for misremembering)
>Fellowship bolts
>Orc chief makes a stab at Frodo, gets head chopped off by Aragorn
>Gandalf tries to cast a spell to magically lock the door behind them.
>Balrog (although unseen at the time) counter-spells his spell
>Gandalf tries a "word of command", to regain control of the door
>All that magic proves too much, door bursts, ceiling caves in, and it buys time as the Balrog and friends have to go around an alternate route. Gandalf severely exhausted by the magical struggle.
>>1388440
This. In the books Legolas walks on the snows of Caradhras without sinking, while the rest of the fellowship has to wait for Aragorn and Boromir to open a path. Iirc he also talks with the sun.
>>1388430
this is the reason I didn't see the new hobbit movies
>>1386944
Maybe for 5 seconds due the element of surprise after that they'd all be slaughtered in a minute
>>1388430
They deconstructed all the set pieces from the original three movies so over the top CGI bullshit was their only option other than spending money.
You know, the same way star wars went from mild fencing to triple backflips.
>>1387602
A pious hero son
>>1386944
>save as dumb.webm
>open in vlc
>watch at 3x speed to see what the Elves look like in real time
>holy shit it looks even more retarded at normal speed
>holy shit the first row actually disappear through the ground and/or under the lances after jumping, before the second ones land.
>>1388471
Not because of the fact that they made 3 movies out of a tiny book?
>>1388409
>If you posit that Aragorn can fight around as well as Boromir, you've got a guy who could kill 20 orcs, alone
Yeah this is true, but we don't know how exactly the fight happened. I doubt Tolkien had in mind ridiculous "cool" scenes regarding combat so Boromir's victory is probably mainly due to combining relentlessness and surprise with skill.
>And he and Eomer hold the gate at the Hornburg alone
Did they hold it by reking every attacker that came at them though, or did they just sort of block their advance? Asimilar anecdote IRL is recorded in the Records of the Three Kingdoms with Zhang Fei where he held a bridge.
But yeah of course Aragorn is still pretty tough, but he's not exactly the Rambo king he is shown to be in the movies.
>Even Uruks are implied to be smaller and weaker than a normal human, albeit tougher than regular orcs
I remember they were smaller, but were they really weaker? I said they were much more dangerous because IIRC they pretty much corrected the Orcs' faults such as having no discipline and being 2spooked instantly.
>>1388538
Not him but iirc Gimli had no problem fighting uruks in hornburg, yet he pussied when evil humans arrived to fight.
>>1388516
>holy shit the first row actually disappear through the ground and/or under the lances after jumping, before the second ones land.
Actually they roll. I think. It's like the fat roll in Dark Souls.
>>1388538
>Yeah this is true, but we don't know how exactly the fight happened. I doubt Tolkien had in mind ridiculous "cool" scenes regarding combat so Boromir's victory is probably mainly due to combining relentlessness and surprise with skill.
True, and you should also remember Tolkien's methods. He's penning fictional myth. Things become considerably more badass the fewer and less reliable the witnesses to the supposed feats are. Take Gandalf's confrontation with the Balrog. It's everything he can do to hold a door closed before, but after the bridge breaks and they're convienently out of sight, it's supposedly an 8 day chase followed by a three day battle that blows up part of a mountain.
>Did they hold it by reking every attacker that came at them though, or did they just sort of block their advance?
It's not directly stated. Most likely they were standing in front of the gate, killed a few dudes, and then the rest hung back, you get a lot more running away than actual fighting in the "fight" scenes in LoTR, especially where the bad guys are concerned.
>I remember they were smaller, but were they really weaker?
I can't think of any direct statements. I was also going to mention Gimli's comments that the previous anon did. >>1388550
Furthermore, you have the just general flow of battle where they're committed. At the Hornburg, Saruman's got maybe 10,000 or so Uruks and an unstated number of Dunlendings. The "Household Guard" of Theoden is about 1,000, minus whatever losses they've taken in the battle so far. Their charge throws the entire army into disarray, and then Erkenbrand leading another 1,000 or so guys, this time mostly on foot, seriously messes them up.
You also get the battle between the Uruks and Eomer's troops at the beginning of the Two Towers, and even outnumbering the men a bit north of 2:1 (and completely discounting the other orcs) they only manage to kill about 15 out of a force of 120 before being completely wiped out.
>>1388585
Oh I see, Uruks were just slightly better than regular Orcs then. In the end images from the book and the movies fused together for me, I retained an image of big strong Orcs for Uruk-hai.
>Things become considerably more badass the fewer and less reliable the witnesses to the supposed feats are. Take Gandalf's confrontation with the Balrog. It's everything he can do to hold a door closed before, but after the bridge breaks and they're convienently out of sight, it's supposedly an 8 day chase followed by a three day battle that blows up part of a mountain.
Yeah that kind of thing is great. Subtlety is one of my favorite things about the books.
>Most likely they were standing in front of the gate, killed a few dudes, and then the rest hung back, you get a lot more running away than actual fighting in the "fight" scenes in LoTR, especially where the bad guys are concerned.
Yeah, the anecdote I mentioned is pretty much the same.
>>1386944
copy pasted troops
cgi fest
that fucking BLOOM and desaturation
couldnt finish these movies
>>1388423
>What are shields?
>>1388494
It wasn't just that. The insistence on filming it in 3D meant Jackson couldn't most of the shit he did in the first film.
>>1388662
You can see the extras with shields holding them above their heads, what's yer point
>>1388662
Sauron and the Witch King clearly had serious problems to properly supply 80,000 Mordor Orcs and 75,000 Mordor Uruks. Can you imagine such a logistic nightmare, even for a dark deity?
>>1388039
>how the fuck else are you going to advance in a mountain pass with a phalanx blocking the way and no alternative routes?
Bows. Javelins. Rocks.
>>1386944
Why the hell would you waste the defensive shield wall by throwing your own men in front of it?
>>1388803
to try and look badass and make the audience applaud
>>1388803
Sunken cost fallacy. What good is training an army of Michael Jordans if you're not going to have them jump over people?
>>1388803
Elves and Orcs die, it's a win-win.
>finally able to see the dwarves wrecking shit because they're great fighters
>the first shitty movies didn't even have the dwarves under Durin IV helping out at the Battle of the Last Alliance
>Gimli was arguably the best fighter in the fellowship with Boromir
>Dwarves only comic relief
>Hobbit comes out and dwarves, whilst still sort of being comical kick CGI ass pretty well
>Battle of Five Armies comes along
>dwarves doing stuff
>Special edition comes along
>dwarves destroying elf faggot asses with cocks the size of a troll
>stop fighting to fight another army and dwarves go first because they're not pussies
>elves leap over like stupid faggots instead of just shooting orcs
>in the end the dwarves get the last laugh because it's only dwarves left
HAHAHA REMOVE LEMBAS
>>1387938
So pikes are even more OP than stakes against cavalry in M2TW?
Now I'm glad I didn't get Rome ii
>>1388195
Usually they got crushed in between the two phalanxes and were virtually wiped out.
>>1388169
>Tolkien's elves are all grossly overpowered
why shouldn't they be?
they don't die if they are not killed
what do you think happens when you train for a few hundred years?
yeah, you become OP
>>1389186
This. It would make less sense if they were as incredible as they're shown to be.
>>1389500
I'd imagine they preferred perfecting their arts, making music and poetry, baking lambas and inventing dwarf jokes
I'd say that is a lot easier in sheltered Lothlorien than in spider infested Mirkwood with humans to the east, dwarfs to the north and orcs all over the place
That should give a bunch of elves that never hold a weapon and are easy to kill and a bunch of elves, that have been fighting and hunting for a good part of their immortal lives and become pretty much OP
>>1387602
Shoot them.
Or just encircle them.
Or go around.
>>1388039
Well, you might want to tell the persians this, they'll be glad to know they weren't attacked and defeated at marathon and platea.
>MUH CHOKEPOINTS
Greeks actively sought out flat, open terrain to fight on.
>MUH SPEEDZ
Except the phalanx was noted for steamrolling people in the charge.
>how the fuck else are you going to advance in a mountain pass with a phalanx blocking the way and no alternative routes?
There are literally always alternative routes.
Also, scale the sides of the pass with light infantry and shoot them. Welcome to mountian warfare, it's a clusterfuck and you're going to get shot.
>BVUT MUH LIGHT INFANTRY
Phalanxes bring their own, and also ended up developing the ekdromoi, who would simply chase off any skirmishers, and kill the ones who lagged behind.
>Herodotus and Xenophon both mention that the prime thing that made the Spartans so dangerous is that they would have their phalanxes advance at a dead run,
Other way around. They wer enoted for advancing to music and keeping in step. OTher greeks would break into a shambling run and lose cohesion, and get brushed aside by the solid line.
Marathon was supposedly the first time a phalanx ran.
It caught on.
>>1387141
>and the homosexuals don't have anywhere to jump in
I dont know why this made laugh
>>1387928
What if you're fighting to defend your peoples' marijuana?
>>1388401
Hydra dominatus
>>1390373
Are you actually stupid
>>1390373
>riddle me this, smart guys; if spear walls were so effective why was cavalry the dominant force on the battlefield until gunpowder.
they could move fast and strike flanks hard
>>1390373
>I eat the myth of cavalry supremacy.
No you fucking idiot because a human is not weightless like the elves are.
>>1387563
He's on /his/ so of course.
>>1387634
How do you counter pikemen with plate armor?
>>1387882
>le war horses are afraid of pikes meme xD
no you fucktard brits actually did charge pikes intentionally once so the horse flesh would break the formation then they simply hopped off and engaged with pikemen in melee in a giant clusterfuck.
>>1387602
- guns or strong bows (crossbows or longbows), unless everyone is wearing plate armor, which is highly unlikely
- do what the Romans did, use huge shields and engage them hand to hand
- use suicidal assault troops to knock the pikes aside and break the formation such as Zweihander-using Landsknechts.
- get them to some rough terrain where they can't get into formation properly. The Romans originally used phalanxes, but they were useless when they started fighting in the mountains of southern Italy, so they adapted the famous big shield+sword infantry. They later defeated Greek phalanxes in simelar terrain using these troops.
>>1388496
>>1386944
>23 hours ago
>mods let the 'le historically speaking' shitpost qualifier fly
Is this just an unmoderated janny's own shitposting playground?
>>1386972
This.
I was so fucking hyped for Dwarven phalanxes and the the pointy eared cunts had to RUIN IT ALL GODDAMN I HATE ELVES SO GODDAMN MUCH! RACE WAR WHEN? KNIFE-EARS GO TO HELL
>>1387602
1-Have the high ground or have the enemy facing the sun.
2- have better qualitty troops ( longer pikes, armour, better trainment)
3- artillery
4-retreat
>>1390548
guns
Thats the stupidest thing ive seen in a long time. They were in a perfect position. Why give that away?
>>1390965
The Romans literally won because the macedonian cavalry either mutinied or ran off somewhere. That and centurions were allowed to take initiative.
The Romans suffered horrific casualties every time they went up against the phalanx in a toe to toe battle. They were however excellent at playing realpolitik and undermined the Macedonian position in Hellas long before war started.
The germans did it all the time
