Verdun or Somme?
>>1374612
Neither of them, if you're asking for the most decisive battle for the Western Front.
That would probably go either to the Marne, which stopped that initial German rush, or the Spring offensive, stopping the other real chance Germany had to knock out France (even if it was a desperate one).
If you're asking which of the two was more decisive than the other, then I'd probably go with the Somme, it was bigger overall, and it showed that conscript forces could and did fight on a more or less even basis with regular, pre-war formations.
Somme, Falkenhayn, resigned and was replaced by Ludendorff.
Verdun was more of a shock since it was the first attrition-based battle which the Somme later turned into after the British general staff realized there would be no giant breakthrough.
To me, the Somme is more heartbreaking in a way since it was the baptism of the British Army by hellfire. All those cheery bank clerks, farmers, husbands, sons, uncles, mailmen, factory workers, just gunned down en masse like their lives were worth nothing at all. What a fucking horrible time to have been alive in.
>you will never be a 17 year old American boy, bubbling with carbonated swagger, enjoying the camaraderie of seeing a strange new place with your unit, touring the French countryside, making time with the famously sensual french women, seeing buildings older than your country.
WW1 for the doughboys was like a real life adventure. It was short, glorious and beautiful.
>>1374612
The western front really didn't have a decisive moment. the entire front's history is summed up with an initial rush to Paris and Germany getting stopped at the Marne, pure attrition with almost no changes in the frontline for 4 years, then Germany eventually gives way to exhaustion after the Allies bring in fresh troops.
The only two moments that really decided the outcome were both battles of the Marne, the first that decided that France wasn't falling anytime soon, and the second spelling that Germany lost all chances at victory.
>>1376523
[The Somme] was the muddy grave of the German Field Army.
-Captain von Hentig of the Guards Reserve Division
When Ludendorff took over he managed a tactical withdraw 30-40 miles to the Hindenburg line. Not a bad policy if his army is over-extended and had taken 230k casualties.
The problem is, his 1918 offensives cost the same amount of casualties and only managed to recover the same territories he had retreated from.
>>1376493
Imagine going over the top with your Pals unit that's made up of all the people from your hometown. People you went to school with as a kid and worked with as an adult. Your cousins, siblings, and life-long friends.
Now, imagine watching 90% of them get tangled up in barbed wire and mud, then gunned down in front of your eyes.
WW1 was a terrible fucking war.
>>1376493
>To me, the Somme is more heartbreaking in a way since it was the baptism of the British Army by hellfire. All those cheery bank clerks, farmers, husbands, sons, uncles, mailmen, factory workers, just gunned down en masse like their lives were worth nothing at all. What a fucking horrible time to have been alive in.
Makes me shutter just thinking about it. WW2 may have been preferable from a soldier's perspective that is.
>>1374612
The Somme had a bigger impact but the Marne changed the tide of the war.
![r0_118_1331_867_w1200_h678_fmax[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/3veIxcg.jpg "r0_118_1331_867_w1200_h678_fmax[1].jpg")
>Been reading up on a lot of WWI battles because of July 1st
>Start reading about Passchendaele
Holy fuck. How is this battle not burned into the public consciousness as much as Verdun of the Somme? If I was a soldier and got to choose one battle that I would never take part in, there's no doubt in my mind that it would be Passchendaele.
>>1376582
>Picture the puny efforts of a small fly to cross the pudding basin full of batter and you have some idea of the hopelessness of the man who had missed the track and become bogged in this appalling mud. A party of 'A' Company men passing up to the front found such a man bogged to above the knees. The united efforts of four of them with rifles beneath his armpits, made not the slightest impression, and to dig, even if shovels had been available, would have been impossible, for there was no foothold. Duty compelled them to move on up the line, and when two days later they passed down that way the wretched fellow was still there; but only his head was now visible and he was raving mad.
>>1376582
Well, they made a movie about it, at least.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJZttzblHFQ
>>1376649
needs more gore desu
>>1376582
It is remembered a lot here in belgium...
>>1376649
>Look in the comments
>12 year olds screaming "BATTLEFIELD 1 XDDD"
>>1376582
>>1376597
>>1376611
>>1376649
>>1376658
>>1376660
Pic: Passchendale in 1915 (top) & Passchendaele in 1918 (bottom).
>>1376582
it's a pretty big part of history classes here in Canada.
>>1376649
That movie is a fucking disgrace. Junkie Nursing Sister having sex in what I think is supposed to be the support trench line.
Jesus.
When you stand in Tyne Cot cemetery, looking at the 1400-odd war graves (plus the names of all the missing), you suddenly realize that there are still three German concrete pillboxes in the cemetery. And then you look to where their slits are facing, and it's as flat as Kansas or Saskatchewan. How did men even start to work their way up to the defences?
Jutland was probably the most decisive at the strategic level, despite winning tactically by sinking more ships and killing more Brits the Germans never again challenged the Royal Navy blockade that would starve them out in the long run.
>>1376858
what the hell was the navy's problem? Seriously even during ww2 the germans did more with less, hell the Japs still fought it out with less
>>1376863
Ironically the situation with the German surface fleet was similar in both wars, the guy at the top (Kaiser, Hitler) was afraid to lose his expensive battleships in a full-blown clash with the rules-the-seas Royal Navy and was overly cautious in permitting their deployment. Jutland only happened because the Germans were attempting to trap a small piece of the RN and destroy it before the rest could arrive while the RN were counter-trapping to lure them into a full engagement, ultimately both fleets more or less blundered into each other a few times, shots were fired, the rest is history.
It could be argued the caution was justified, outside of Coronel and (tactically) Jutland the Germans got the worst of every large surface engagement, Dogger Bank would've been disastrous for them had there not been a screw-up in Brit communication that had all their ships gang up on the already doomed Blucher.
In the closing weeks of the war there was an attempt by the German naval leadership to try and regain some honor by going out in one last blaze of glory but the crews had gotten soft and commie laying around for two years with nothing to do, they refused to die for a pointless cause and mutinied.
Verdun is a good story and all, but in the end not much was really accomplished
>>1376898
>ultimately both fleets more or less blundered into each other a few times, shots were fired, the rest is history.
thats a little harsh to jellicoe, he had scheer bang to rights twice in that battle, the only thing that saved the germans from getting their shit thoroughly pushed in was defective ammo, and jellicoe didnt blunder, he deployed perfectly, and did it twice, caution and poor communication allowed the germans to escape, but Jellicoe was very much the master of Scheer at the end of that day.
as for decisive battles, first ypres is pretty important, it was the death of the pre war british regular army, marked the hardening of the trench warfare into a pattern as opposed to a series of blocking positions, and was realistically the last chance the germans had to actually win the damn thing, because impressive as the spring offensives were they were not ever going to be decisive
>>1374612
To be honest Verdun, Somme and Brusilov offensive as a whole were all very decisive as in they've literally removed the best soldiers Germany had from the existence and were the tipping point from which German generals had to find any way to save manpower.
