I know this sounds like a /pol/-esque question of why Asians are bad at warfare, but I'm genuinely curious. The famous conflicts of the Dark Age to Renaissance era Orient are factional wars within their own territory to establish control. You see this with the Three Kingdoms and Warring States.
Meanwhile in Europe, established kingdoms routinely fought each other for various reasons and also engaged in the middle east against Islamic forces.
The reason I'm asking this is because I've been looking into historical weaponry and Asian armaments are far more static than their European counterparts -- and seem much less practical.
What gives?
>>1364883
Probably because the far East is just that: far. To get from China to another major advanced civilization you'd have to either cross massive inhospitable mountains, traverse arid deserts and massive, nomad infested steppes, or sail across large stretches of sea e.g. The Indian Ocean.
Meanwhile, for Europeans to contact middle eastern civilizations all they had to do was sail across the Mediterranean. And of course the Middle East was a gateway to India and to a lesser extent Africa.
Basically it's just geography. If the mountains west of China or the deserts to the north didn't exist, or if the Pacific Ocean was just a narrow sea with Iberia and Africa on the other side, I'm sure at least one dynasty might have tried conquering a land further away. China did conquer its neighbors on more than one occasion, and the Mongols obviously engaged in conquest. The Japanese are a modern example of eastern conquerors though in the age of aircraft carriers and jet engines geographic limits became less important, of course.
Its because Japan Korea and China saw themselfs as some meme tier civilization and everyone else is a filthy barbarian who doesn't deserve their time
Also Vietnam Conquered the Champa
>>1364883
Another factor is the fact that Chinese culture sort of discouraged the idea of independent nations. If I remember correctly, the very idea of "China" for most of history has been a vast empire ruled by an emperor ordained by heaven. This mandate of heaven is their equivalent of the divine right of kings, from which they derived the leader's right to rule. Most wars in China therefore were not fought to establish independent kingdoms, but to stake one's claim to the Mandate of Heaven - and thus make all of China accept your rule. Even outside invaders worked within this system and were eventually "Sinicized" - that is, made Chinese. The Mongols and the Yuan/Qing dynasties are the primary examples of this.
Meanwhile in the West, the idea of Rome was a bit similar. There was a great and powerful empire, and the one with the right to rule it was chosen by God. It's no coincidence that so many rulers styled themselves with variations of Caesar.. But for whatever reason, the Imperial system didn't hold up over time in the West. Perhaps the peoples were too diverse to be absorbed into a uniform empire too easily. Perhaps the great migrations aggravated that problem. I'm no expert so I don't know.
They had fuckhuge mountains blocking off India. Central Asia was full of steppe nomads with nothing worth conquering. Nothing to conquer in the Gobi desert and Siberia either to the north.
I don't understand how you can look at the far east and say "oh well it was just one civilization (china) fighting itself over and over" but you look at europe and don't say "well it was one civilization (rome) fighting itself over and over".
China/Korean/Japan/Indochina was just as large and diverse and fragmented as europe. Imperial china was the HRE of its day, just more centralized. Its people had different ethnic backgrounds and its bureaucrats were basically counts and dukes whose personal loyalty to the emperor varied.
And southeast asian pirates and mongols were their "muslims"
They believed in isolationism and thought that entering other land would violate their own beliefs.
>>1364883
>Why did the Far East never conquer anything besides itself?
Do Huns and Mongols not count as Far Easterners?
>>1364883
China literally thought they were in the center of the world and everyone else was irrelevant, not even worth conquering.
>>1364914
I'm going to guess it had to do with rome hype being pretty specific to rome which most of the empire, really wasn't.
Are you seriously implying that all of Eastern Asia was one big country?
Might as well say all of europe just a bunch of people cucked by rome fighting each other to see who gets to succeed the romans.
One thing about the Far East is that it is huge. China by itself has a larger population than Europe.
Chinese Emperors usually had Hadrian-large Empires.
>>1364883
It's rare that anyone conquered outside of their immediate regions of interest- trade networks that coalesced into these intercommunicating zones- for reasons not much different than why we (Westerners) put an emphasis on the Mediterranean world, just as they developed their own distinct narratives of world history.
Knyght Errant did a video comparing armor recently, worth a watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RR6I-BLKbQ
>>1364883
Symmetry of warfare. The 'western Europe' area had many competing states of rough technological parity, while in east Asia, China dominated completely until they started attacking themselves then become peaceful for abother hundred years
>>1364883
I am curious why China did not discover America first. They had a chain of islands to follow. The did not have to sail thousands of miles of open ocean.
Even in more modern terms, China shares borders with 16 sovereign states and has the largest land border of any country; not something that facilitates aggressive border policy.
>>1365068
Well iirc Zheng He was the last chineses explorer in the 14th century. After him, the emperor basically called for an isolationism policy
>>1364914
>Another factor is the fact that Chinese culture sort of discouraged the idea of independent nations.
No it didn't. Vietnamese independence was permitted and indirectly created by the Chinese. Chinese people never tried to claim Cambodia, Myanmar, Thailand, etc. They left those nations alone.
>>1365068
Because it's pretty fucking cold.
Extremely fucking cold in fact. They couldn't surpass the cold until the invention of cotton clothing and when cotton clothing was invented, Zheng He did sail around the world.
>>1364883
They did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protectorate_General_to_Pacify_the_West
>>1365117
I think he meant independent nations within China, not outside of it.
>>1364883
>Asian armaments are far more static than their European counterparts -- and seem much less practical.
wew lad
>>1364883
They did. What, you think China started out that big?
Your utter ignorance of the Warring States and the Three States is showing. How do you think the border states gained resources to combat the stronger and more populated heartland states? Conquest and expansion outward against a frontier.
>Asian armaments are far more static than their European counterparts -- and seem much less practical.
Tell me more.
>>1365902
>Asian armaments are far more static than their European counterparts -- and seem much less practical.
The repeating crossbow is a pretty mediocre weapon that persisted for centuries because there was no impetus to create anything better. In order for the reloading function to operate, the bow needs to have a very low draw weight. Classical Greek and Roman crossbows might have equaled them in power, but by the late middle ages, Europeans developed steel prod crossbows, which were orders of magnitude more powerful than the repeating crossbows that were still in use in China, having not evolved at all for over a thousand years.
It's actually a good example of Chinese weapon design, as it is a potentially powerful weapon, that was never improved much beyond the original design, being superior to European equivalents at its invention, but not changing, being laughably inferior to the then extensively developed European equivalent in use 1500 years later, that was the product of continuous, incremental improvement.
>>1366171
>repeating crossbows never changed from since their invention during the Warring States
How can you seriously believe this?
And I suppose those Song Dynasty crossbow design contests never actually happened or something?
>>1364951
Not OP but imho (and I'm not alone) central asian fits them better.
>>1364883
Actually in some periods China was extremely aggressive in their north and western fronts. Most of what is China now can only hardly be called far eastern, and the chinese conquered well beyond that point. They reached Uzbekistan.
Your examples of factional wars are more famous than conquests because China didn't really have an equal for most of it's history. Notice how a disproportionate roman conflicts are also internal conflicts, and romans did have a couple of equal or near-equal enemies.
>>1366195
>I'm existing everyone to be deeply familiar with Chinese and not being citations.
>>1364951
this. i mean, fuck. largest empire in history.
>>1364951
Don't forget about the Gökturks.
China once conquered Ceylon, apparently out of sheer boredom.
Main thing is, China is big. Bigger than Europe, with historically always more population.
Why would any Emperor seek to rule more if all their neighboring lands were of less value and harder to keep? North nothing but cold, West nothing but desert and mountains, South nothing but thick jungles and hard to rule people.
It is same as asking why didn't Rome seek to expand deeper to Africa or further in to North Europe? Not worth the effort.
From the perspective of Chinese historically, it is perfectly fair to say they were living at the center of the world, and ruling it on top of that.
>>1364883
Japan tried once and got btfo.
Korea was too weak.
China had enough trouble with its borders.
Can't speak for the rest of Asia, but China was always arrogant about its position in the world. Chinese never referred to China as "China" or "Central Kingdom" but as tianxia, something that would be translated as "all under heaven." These people really believed that China wasn't just the center of the world, but the world itself.
But when you consider their neighbors outside of Japan, it sort of makes sense. Although I always wonder why China never cared that much about India. Maybe it was the impenetrable jungle of Southeast Asia that discouraged more communication?
>>1364883
Look up Cino-Roman relations.
Both knew about each other, both sent envoys for proposal to trade. Both both encountered other empires that did not want this trade/meeting of the minds to happen.
>>1364968
>Might as well say all of europe just a bunch of people cucked by rome fighting each other to see who gets to succeed the romans.
well that's not entirely inaccurate.
>>1365121
>Zheng He did sail around the world.
No he didn't. His fleet made it to the African East Coast.
>>1366450
The brits are not east asian but south asian chap.
>>1364883
Wut?
Mongol any?
>>1367303
They cared a lot. But the interest was mainly spiritual/religious thanks to Buddhism.
Also trade of course but that was by sea so you have all SEA in between.
>>1364921
>They had fuckhuge mountains blocking off India
Unrelated but if i were a "human" hundreds of thousands of years ago I don't think I'd leave Africa. People crossed massive mountains, sailed great seas, and icey wastes for food/home.
I mean, even the ancestors of the Australian aborigine deserves some credit for making it to Australia. You wouldn't catch me out in the sea looking for something that might not even be there, relying on some damn stars to navigate.
>>1367303
Why do people who obviously know nothing about Chinese history keep trying to comment on Chinese history?
天下 was only one of many designations to refer to the Empire, other popular ones including 海內, 九州, and yes even 中國, where one must realize that 中 comes from 中外 "inner vs outer" perspective and not this idiotic "arrogance" meme about being the center of the world. From a very early time the rulers of 天下 were aware that 天下 did not include the entire world, and some of these more ambitious rulers from 秦始皇 to 漢孝武 sought to use this as justification for aggressive military expansion.
>>1367396
Central asian t.b.h.
>>1365173
Yeah but they had to rely solely on that narrow corridor to get there, and if that became contested/controlled by someone else then they immediately lost all of that territory.
>>1364883
>cross inhospitable mountains/deserts/jungle/forest
>lose half your troops
>suppress and vassalize natives
>cross inhospitable mountains/deserts/jungle/forest to get home
>lose half of your remaining troops
>conquered region revolts
>have to go through the whole thing over again
Mounting such major expeditions just isn't worth it in the long run.
>>1367402
What's with Cinophiles/Chinamen writing names with logograms like the rest of the world can actually read them?
>>1368168
Because it's the best way to deflect idiotic and inaccurate "translations" like "Middle Kingdom" which are loaded with cultural assumptions and spawns idiotic memes like "China thinks they're the center of the universe."
Plus it sidesteps the endless pinyin vs Wade-Giles arguments.
>>1368195
>Plus it sidesteps the endless pinyin vs Wade-Giles arguments.
There are arguments? How is pinyin not better in every way?
>>1368225
English speakers never stop bitching about how C, Q, and X are used in pinyin.
>>1368270
Never seen someone on /his/ complain about the way Cao Cao is written.
>>1364883
Because they conquered it and kept it, unlike Europe. "China" encompass more conquered territory that initial China.
>>1368297
Then go to /v/ and watch how many people post "COW COW"
>>1365068
Because Renaissance era Maths, correct use of the compass, mariners astroblade use weren't properly implemented for sailing until the "Age of Discovery".
>>1368307
Note also that Qin also expanded into and conquered the Sichuan basin, exterminating or assimilating the local cultures there, which from this map is clearly shown as not being included in the Shang/Zhou cultural order.
There is also debate among scholars as to whether Chu and Wu-Yue should be considered part of the original Zhou culture or a frontier culture that was conquered and assimilated.
>>1368321
Isn't that technically supportive of the spelling? Seems like the memepool trying to correct itself.
>>1364883
>their own isolationism (in several cultures)
>their own contentment with having conquered enough lands and people (in several nations) or difficulty keeping them
>their own fixation on conquering each other, because you want what's just out of reach and what you lost a few decades ago
>the Mongols
>the Kazakhs (Cossacks)
>the Persians
>dense jungle (in southeast Asia)
>the Steppes (not super friendly in geography terms or people terms)
>the Tibetan Plateau (same)
>the driest desert on the planet (Gobi)
>the highest mountains on the planet (Himalayas)
>the biggest patch of fuck-all on the planet (Siberia)
>the second-biggest patch of fuck-all on the planet (Afghanistan, with its additional desert and moderate mountains of its own)
>the largest ocean on the planet (Pacific)
Their countrymen, their neighboring nations and tribes, and the very planet it self were against this hodgepodge we called East Asian civilization breaching its borders. Even then, it did happen, twice-- once when the Mongols co-opted it and eventually got assimilated by it, and again when Japan got a hard on for conquest and enough technology and resources to do something about it.
>>1368307
What people don't seem to understand is that ancient China was hardly "Chinese".
Shang,pre dynastic Zhou,Fen River polities were originally independent of each other.
That's not even getting into neighboring polities such as pre Zhou Yan,Jing Chu,Yan,Qiang/Rong,Gui/Di,Yi/Ren/Dongyi.
>>1368329
Jing Chu was already mentioned in Shang oracle bones as a indigenous polity in modern day southwestern Henan/Hubei.
Gou/Gong Wu(Kuŋo) Yu/Gan Yue(Kan/Giwo giwat) were non Sinitic. Though they had interactions with the Huai Yi polities.
>>1364902
>To get from China to another major advanced civilization you'd have to either cross massive inhospitable mountains, traverse arid deserts and massive, nomad infested steppes, or sail across large stretches of sea
Meanwhile hannibal barca crossed the alps with elephants and arabs who were never used to the blistering winter and still nearly conquered the greatest civilization in history.
Get a better excuse next time, chink.
>>1368416
Are you stupid? Look at the world map and you'll see that what you're asking the Chinese to do is an order of magnitude greater than what Hannibal had to do, in terms of distance and scale. Not to mention the number of casualties that Hannibal's army suffered with his little stunt- how would the Chinese have maintained a fighting force at the end of the expedition? They didn't have the self-sufficiency of a largely cavalary force that the Mongols had either.
Life is a simple cost-benefit analysis, anon. If life in East Asia was already agreeable, there's no need to move the military machine across a continent just to prove a point to a random guy on a cambodian crouqette board in 2016.
>>1368451
>you're asking the Chinese to do is an order of magnitude greater than what Hannibal had to do
What's scary though is that during the wars against the Xiongnu the Chinese actually DID.
>>1368489
You are forgetting that the Xiognu were nomads. Losing an army was the same as losing a quarter of their population during certain periods probably. Then, remember the wars went on for hundreds of years, and the Chinese only ever needed a 50% victory rate in any single extended conflict to literally push the Xiognu to near-extinction. Literally all the Chinese needed to do was out-breed their enemy. It's like the United States winning the Revolutionary War by losing 10% of its population per year vs 1000 British casualties per year, and then doing this for 300 years, and even then just barely winning.
>>1364883
>Why did the Orient Conquer itself and not others
because buddhism is about conquering the self?
>>1364883
>Asian armaments are far more static than their European counterparts -- and seem much less practical.
Wow, like how every East-Asian siege weapon was wheeled as opposed to fixed? Chinese were even crazy enough to do that to Persian Counterweight trebuchets under the Mongols.
Or the fact that every East Asian cavalryman is a fucking archer?
Or how about the Chinks being the first civilization to do supply depots and dedicated supply corps instead of meme baggage trains & foraging?
Or going back to China, most of their campaigns were defensive ones versus the steppes, involving long patrols out in the border.
Lets add to the fact that the Chinks hired themselves some Steppe Nomads to help do this?
How about the Samurai whose initial pre-gunpowder Idea of Fortifications was not to keep the enemy out permanently but to level the battlefield in favor of defenders? Opting for stockades and earthworks despite knowledge of Masonry, so after defending, they can easily go out and pursue them? Not to mention it plays a big role in their HONORABOR COMBAT way of thinking.
Sure is static OP.
>>1368834
>supply depots and dedicated supply corps instead of meme baggage trains & foraging
Supply depots are the real meme
>lets amass all of our necessities for living in one area so that the enemy can raid and destroy it and we can go back to the "meme" methods
Don't even know why people would praise supply depots in pre-modern warfare, it's not a particularly great idea.
>>1364883
>what are the Mongols
Go back to /pol/ and stay go
>>1368886
>Heading to the other guy's supply depot.
>Easy.
Fucking kek.
>Don't even know why people would praise supply depots in pre-modern warfare, it's not a particularly great idea.
t. Napoleon "My army still forages for supplies" Bonaparte.
>>1368886
>Don't even know why people would praise supply depots in pre-modern warfare, it's not a particularly great idea.
So your soldiers can eat and fight instead of just dying.
>>1368321
That's just people making fun of how it was pronounced in the games.
>>1368195
It also destroys any divulgative potential your post could have. As far as I'm concerned you didn't rebuke whatever the other anon was saying, you just posted cool drawings.
>>1369672
>im a moron and im proud of it
>>1369677
>everyone should learn to read chinese or they're morons
>>1369702
>everyone who wants to have an opinion on East Asian history should learn to read chinese
Sounds pretty basic to me.
>>1364951
Also if you want to get technical you can count the Ottomans as Asiatic since the middle east is often lumped with Asia rather then Europe.
>>1365068
Aren't there some old Chinese maps that include America before Columbus travelled there?
>>1369841
Those might be the same maps that show Tibet has always been a part of China and has never once been independent.
Anything from the PRC needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
>>1369854
>believing all that anti-PRC propaganda
Yes, because apparently one map covers all possible time periods.
The only maps that could even be considered controversial on the topic are Ming dynasty maps, as Ming Emperors sent seals and badges of office to claim overlordship over the territory but lacked the resources to actually maintain permanent garrisons and appointed officials like the Yuan and Qing.
>>1364883
Not a specialist on the subject.. but my guess would be that martial arts on boats is not really a thing and....mountains... shit ton's of mountains
>>1369766
>often lumped with Asia rather then Europe.
It's literally Asia, even "more" than the far east since the term was developed to describe the middle east and later evolved to be "the middle east and beyond". Only the fact that yellow and mongoloid are seen as offensive terms allowed "asian" to mean far eastener.
The thread was about the Far East, not Asia, and the Ottomans are not far eastern.
>>1369720
You mean
>everyone who wants to lurk this cambodian opera forum should learn to read chinese
>>1368398
>the kazakhs (cossacks)
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahawhy would anyone think theyre related
Why did the West never conquer anything besides itself?
>>1370469
>Africa
>India
>South East Asia
>Oceania
>Americas
>>1369720
>everybody that wants to have an opinion on Roman history should learn Latin
>>1370974
...yes? Is this a contest to state the obvious?
if mongolia is central asia, then china is central asian too since it is even more to the west
>>1369854
Could you link me a Chinese map that shows Tibet has ALWAYS been part of China or are you just baiting?
>>1371608
>tibet
>>1371089
Not it's hearthland. Also Portugal is more west than France, but nobody would call it more western when talking about geocultural areas.
For those without autism
>>1368416
Carthaginians are not Arabs, you retard.
>>1372583
#rude
>>1371608
It's against the law in china to state that Tibet was ever independent.
>>1372811
Fuck off with your propaganda
>>1364902
Nope
far is relative.
china was close to following civs:
ancient SEA viet, cambos, thais
ancient iranics/tocharians: persians, bactrians, sogdians, scytho-kushans
harappa, india, japan, malaysia
western/central asia had the most advanced civilizations until turko-mongol invasians. and china did indeed have close contact with CA and SEA
>>1364883
1.The Xinjiang production and Construction Corps(All Han-Chinese) 119.5
2.Zhejiang Province 115.8
3.Shanghai 115.3
4.Beijing 114.1
5.Jiangsu Province 109.0
6.Shanxi Province 108.0
7.Shangdong Province 107.9
8.Liaoning Province 107.5
9.Fujian Province 107.1
10.Jilin Province 107.0
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/world/2348902-china-iq-map-provinces-8-10-a.html#ixzz4DUu3awTi
Too smart to expand to genetic foreigners and risk getting mongrelized.
>>1366909
This
OP, you are a silly goose, read up on China's Cosmopolitan Empire: The Tang Dynasty
>>1367350
true
romans, greeks has intimate knowledge and relations with china and india
even greeks had empire in india
>>1373202
*had
>>1364883
So basically the Far East is China and Chinese-influenced societies.
Well here's your answer: the whole region is geographically locked up.
The Himalayans, Siberia, the deserts and steps of Central Asia, the dense jungles of Southeast Asia, to say nothing of the Pacific itself!
What reason did the Far East have to conquer such wastes when all the riches of the world (that they knew of) were already at their fingertips?
>>1373257
>muh surrounded by nothing meme
you can say the same about europe, which is similar in size to china
surrounded by sea, sahara, ocean, arctic, steppe, desert, mountains
also china was surrounded by ancient civilzations everywhere see >>1372983
and turko mongols were far easterners who expanded westwards
>>1366909
>>1373161
That's cute
>>1369841
Nah
>>1373441
No you can't say the same about Europe, are you retarded? Look at a fucking map, holy shit.
>>1373487
>nothing but ooga boogas
>>1372811
(Citation needed)
>>1373441
>you can say the same about europe
>surrounded by nothing
>>1373487
And how many of those is kept by Britain now?
Meanwhile China grew out of its "China Proper" Boundaries.
>>1364883
You realize the "far east" is fucking enormous? Europeans going to the middle east is the same distance as going from one side of China to the other, and that's over land which takes far longer than sailing, there's no Mediterranean in the middle of China. And considering the Chinese sent ships as far west as Arabia I'd say you're talking shit.
>>1374460
>I expect proper discussion and not memes about China/East Asia from obvious /pol/tards.
baka senpai desu
>>1374447
>frozen shithole to the east, stretching into oblivion
>the largest desert on the south
>the endless sea on your west
>ice and sea north of you
The only place you can strike to is the ME, and even then you won't get too far before the desert fucks your shit up
>>1374498
>muh china surrounded by nothing
>we wuz disadvantaged n shit
>muh europe surrounded by everything
>they had an unfair advantage
same lame excuses all the time
europe is surrounded by nothing
europe was even more disadvantaged since it had ethnic disunity due to phenotypical heterogenity unlike homogenous assimilated Hans and Misc Co.
Why do you nerds frame conquest as a universally good thing?
Most empires fell because they conquered well beyond their ability to administrate and defend over an extended period of time and given internal and external stressors. How many countries gobble up clay and enter a decadent golden age from the plunder alone? What happened when the plunder runs out, only to have an unstustainable economic system, because it becomes more and more difficult to project enough power to get more plunder? What happens in the hangover period of these golden ages, when the decadence and consolidated power of aristocrats has totally undermined the state's ability to project power in the first place?
Wouldn't the ERE have been more prepared for its internal struggles if it didn't waste time trying to reconquer Italy?
>>1375120
Why hello there 1st century Han mandarin. Submitting another memorial to the Emperor to stop wasting resources conquering the Xiongnu there?
>>1374498
Russia is literally arable all the way to Kazakhstan.
Sweden and Norway have had people for 8,000 years.
North Africa was the breadbasket of the Romans.
All of the Middle East is the cradle of civilization.
Go kill yourself.
>>1375086
China's only route of expansion with non-modern technology was to the south.
And guess what. They expanded to the south all the fucking time.
To the West are the highest mountains in the world. To the north is Siberia. To the east is the largest ocean in the world.
Now go kill yourself you strawmanning autist.
>>1364883
They conquered everything under heaven.
>>1364921
>be steppe nomad
>conquer steppes
>worth absolutely nothing
>go conquer the rest of the world
>>1376306
Asia is literally arable all the way to africa and europe
manchuria, siberia, mongolia have had people for 8,000 years.
india, burma, thai, cambodia, tibet, indonesia, sri lanka was the breadbasket of the India
All of the Central Asia is the cradle of civilization.
Go kill yourself.
>>1364883
the far east isn't a country. It was several different factions who fought both civil wars and among one another. For the record though, China often expanded well into Central and Inner Asia and greatly extended its traditional heartland westward. The original core of Chinese civilization is substantially smaller than the current borders of China today.
>>1376306 #
China's only route of expansion with non-modern technology was to the south, east, north, west.
And guess what. They couldnt do shit all the fucking time.
To the West is the most fertile and civilized area in the world. To the north is Manchuria and Russia. To the east is an Japanese sea and an ocean no different to atlantic. to the south is australia, and indo-china
Now go kill yourself you strawmanning autist.
>>1376306
india's only route of expansion with non-modern technology was to the west.
And guess what. They expanded all over south, east, north all the fucking time. didnt make any difference.
they expanded to burma, cambodia, thailand, malaysia, indonesia, nepal, tibet, china, afganistan
To the north and east are the highest mountains in the world. To the west is deserr. To the south is the largest ocean in the world.
Now go kill yourself you strawmanning autist.
>>1375086
BASED
>>1377543
>Asia is literally arable all the way to africa and europe
No it isn't there are deserts everywhere.
>india, burma, thai, cambodia, tibet, indonesia, sri lanka was the breadbasket of the India
No they weren't, what the hell are you on about?
>All of the Central Asia is the cradle of civilization
No it isn't.
>>1364883
I don't think you appreciate how big China is and how much of its territory was non Chinese for so long. Also you completely ignore steppe empires. Pretty much everyone ran into the trouble of China being next door. Also until the age of exploration European wars were just as insular with a few exceptions
>>1377557
>China's only route of expansion with non-modern technology was to the south, east, north, west.
How exactly do you cross the Pacific Ocean with 200's naval technology?
>didn't do shit all the time
They conquered Vientam 6 timea. Korea 4 times. Manchuria 3 times. Mongolia multiple times. Uzbekistan 4 times. Tibet like 7000 times.
>To the West is the most fertile and civilized area in the world.
Just ignore the 6,000 miles of nothing in the way.
>To the north is Manchuria and Russia.
Siberia*
>To the east is an Japanese sea and an ocean no different to atlantic.
>no different
>to the south is australia, and indo-china
a place even Euros didn't discover until 1660.
>indo-China
The Chinese conquered it many times.
>>1379045
>being this retarded
what is Greater India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_India
all under Indian civilization
>Indianised Kingdom of Funan
>Indianised Khmer Empire of Jayavarman, Indravarman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farther_India
aka Ultra India
>No it isn't there are deserts everywhere.
which confirms the point that Europe was even more disadvantaged since it was surrounded by desert to the south and east
and Mid East and Cent Asia was even more disadvantaged since it was all desert and "nothing" but they created and spread civilization everywhere
>>1379075
>How exactly do you cross the Pacific Ocean with 200's naval technology?
the same way Polynesians did. the same way Malays went to Madagascar. the same way Persians went to Zanzibar. the same way Phoenicians/Vikings went to the New World.
>They consumed anything laying right next to their fat, lazy asses
agreed
>Just ignore the 6,000 miles of India, Greater Persia, Oxus, Ferghana, Tocharia, Mesopotamia, Levant and Russia
>to the north is Siberia*
thats where you fail at basic geography
>to the south is australia, and indo-china
>a place even Euros didn't discover until 1660.
since they live on the other side of the planet, unlike Chino
>indo-China The Chinese conquered it many times.
tell that to Vietnam
>>1379174
There are so many ad hominems, lies, and racist remarks in this post I'm just gonna do this
(You)
>>1368416
>North Africans and Phoenicians, centuries before Arab Conquests
>Arabs
American education.
>>1364883
Man, I love Asian shit. I love all that Japanese, Chinese shit. What a bunch of coolios they are.
>>1379174
>>1379134
>>1379075
>>1377557
>to the south is australia, and indo-china
and Indians succeeded in expanding to Australia as well as SEA and China
>Huge Indian migration to Australia as recently as 4000 years ago
>genetic study in India found similarities among Indian archaic populations and Aboriginal people, indicating a Southern migration route, with expanding populations from Southeast Asia migrating to Indonesia and Australia.
>Aboriginal genomes consist of up to 11% Indian DNA which is uniformly spread through Northern Australia, indicating a substantial gene flow between Indian populations and Northern Australia occurred around 4,230 years ago. Changes in tool technology, food processing and the Dingo appear in the archaeological record around this time, suggesting there may have been migration from India.[15][16]
http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/price10.html
>>1368416
You think crossing the Alps is the same as crossing the Himalayas?
>>1379515
>ancient Indians expanded to Afghanistan, Pakistan, Burma, Cambodia, Laos, Tibet, Nepal, China, Malaysia, Indonesia, east Africa, Thailand, Philippines, Australia
Far Easterners are you even trying?
>>1379134
I don't think you know what he word 'breadbasket' means.
>>1370382
They both come from the same root, Turkic for "free man"
>>1379570
>and calling North Africa a breadbasket of the Romans proves the serious basketcase that (you) are
Do people like this really exist?
>>1379570
http://www.travelhoppers.com/2012/01/20/the-bread-basket-of-the-roman-empire/
You are an idiot.
>>1379570
Do you think that the American midwest could not possibly have been the breadbasket of the Soviet Union either?
>>1379180
>ad hominems, lies, and racist remarks
lmao, there was like one
>>1379180
>>1380612
Emilia-Romagna was the breadbasket of the Roman Empire
Home to Europe's most lavish tables, Emilia-Romagna has a reputation as one of Italy's great epicurean centers and was once known as the breadbasket of the Roman Empire. The region is an intensely cultivated plain with fields of wheat, rice, and beets. With its rich agricultural lands, this is where some of Italy's most famous culinary delights originated.
Roman rule of Sicily began in 241 BC with the end of the First Punic War. The conquest was complete with the end of the Second Punic War and the addition of Siracusae. The island’s wheat harvest was of great importance to the empire; Sicily was breadbasket of the Roman Empire.
For Imperial Rome, the island of Britain was a western breadbasket.
>>1379134
The Punjab, Pakistan, Haryana is considered a breadbasket
ancient Greater India "rice bowl":
Bengal
Kedah, Malaysia
Irrawaddy Delta in Burma
Chao Phraya delta, Thailand
plains of Java, Indonesia.
Luzon, Phillipines
What about the Mongols? I'm pretty sure they counted as Far-East.
But I do agree with the rest of the contemporary answers; the Japanese/Chinese/Koreans saw themselves as the worthy part of the world and the rest of the world as generally uncivilized. When the Europeans first came to Japan, the Japanese weren't fazed at all, more like disgusted because the Japanese would bathe almost everyday while the Europeans did not. Something the Chinese and Japanese had in common was that they believed that their emperor was divine compared to the Europeans; the Chinese believing in the mandate of heaven and the Japanese believing their emperor to be the descendant of Amaterasu. Needless to say, the people then were content with that kind of beliefs and the emperors didn't really see any reason to expand less he loses his grip over his own people.
>>1379550
>muh roman breadbaskets
>china surrounded by nothing
you ignorant to realise that china was surrounded by "breadbaskets" so all basket arguments are negated
breadbaskets, ricebowls: mekong delta, burma, bengal, india, ferghana, persia, korea, mesapotamia, fertile crecsent, philipines, luzon see >>1381675
>>1381950
Mongols aren't far east anymore than Turkey is European
>>1382042
uwotm8?
mongols originated in the far east along with the manchus, evenks, chukchi
far east
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chukchi_people
refers to East Asia (including Northeast Asia), the Russian Far East (part of North Asia), and Southeast Asia.
>>1368195
>idiotic and inaccurate "translations" like "Middle Kingdom"
[citation needed]
>>1382415
Consult any dictionary.
王國 means kingdom. 國 automatically cannot mean kingdom.
>>1367401
You wouldn't be a "human" hundreds of thousands of years ago in Africa. You'd be an ancestor which broke away and formed actual societies instead of staying in Africa and fucking around in mud huts
>>1376323
They conquered very little in terms of holding territory like a traditional empire. They went from place to place sacking and extracting tribute. Their huge maps of "territory" just consists of places they reached and sacked or subjagated.
You do realize Chinese sphere is larger than the continent of Europe right?
>>1383421
But that's wrong bro.
>>1383679
>>1383421
Did the brits manage every part of Australia? No
>>1382248
Chuckchies live in the far east, almost Alaska level of far east.
