Tel me the position of Plato about the democracy
"Democracy sucks balls!"
t. Plato
>>1359345
Plato was more into an oligarchy of philosophers making all political decisions (I think, my Plato is rusty).
So if that were the case, he would not be about democracy at all
>>1359411
Basically this. Democracy killed his BFF, he was a total fanboy of Sparta, though.
>>1359430
You're a little dumb desu.
Well, the democracy in Athens killed his mentor, and they committed all sorts of atrocities to the people they defeated, the Melians being the most infamous case. The Spartans by contrasts were nearly always magnanimous to defeated cities, Athens especially included.
So Plato understandably disliked democracy.
>>1359345
Good question!
Plato did not like the democracy that we think of when we think of democracy. In fact, he wanted it to be abolished! He did not want everyone to have the right to vote. Instead, he wanted philosophers, and only the greatest scholars of the realm, to have the right to vote. He believed that philosophers could make the best decision for any situation.
A group of the most qualified making the decisions was essentially his ideal government. Democracy back then was a lot more subject to mob rule, so it wasn't very pretty. I'm sure he wouldn't mind the democracy that came about in the 18th century, but it still wouldn't be ideal.
>>1359540
Pretty much this.
Philosopher kings and a fascist style forced distribution of labour.
>>1359814
Philosopher kings is communism more than fascism.
>>1359345
"The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
I believe this line from Plato's "Republic" is a basic assumption in regards to all systems of governance. Given this assumption, Plato uses the Socratic method to deduce democracy can't possibly be the most virtuous path for a society.
>>1359815
Plato couldn't be farther from communism
>>1359815
>what is horseshoe theory of politics
>>1359825
>Continued
Actually, this assumption more so justifies the philosopher king position, rather than invalidating democracy (plus Greeks had slaves).
It sort of make sense, a knowledgeable man should rule in order to prevent evil men from ruling.
>>1359825
>Continued
Actually, this assumption more so justifies the philosopher king position, rather than invalidating democracy (plus Greeks had slaves).
It sort of make sense, a knowledgeable man should rule in order to prevent evil men from ruling.
Plus I believe humans are always instinctively looking for leaders in society, even if the rules of a society do not permit one person to have such power.
>>1359831
I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't really equate him with modernist communism, but he's definitely closer to that than he is to modernist fascism by a long shot, and Mortimer Adler. was bold enough to refer to him as a communist.
>>1359511
Athens got sodomized by Macedon, great times
>>1359540
>>1359778
This.
He thought the masses were ignorant and giving them voting power was dumb because they're dumb and don't know whats good for them. He basically saw democracy as tyranny, only practiced by the majority instead of just one person.
Ideally only philosophers would be the voting parties because they were wise and exercised good judgment, which are pretty good traits to have in decision making roles. He felt this would work because they would never act solely in self interest, since their wisdom would dictate adherence to virtue would be a greater good than their own interests.
>>1359834
>totalitarian leftism and totalitarian rightiesm are both totalitarian
Damn..really makes you think.
>>1359839
Didn't get the memo about Platonic relationships
>>1359838
I would say Plato is much closer to faciam then he is to communism. In terms of Plato's 5 regimes, Communism is closest to democracy and facism would probably be a type of Timocracy(?) Anyway, according to Plato Timocracy>Democracy
>>1359852
I'm talking about communism as practice, not communism the tagline.
>>1359855
What are you talking about? Define communism? Because I am using the Karl Marx definition
>>1359859
>Karl Marx has monopoly on definition
>>1359859
All property in the hands of the state, which is ruled by academics.
>>1359849
Philip btfo Athens and then Alexander cucked them into irrelevance.
Athens was everything wrong with Greece in the 4th century BC
>>1359868
Thats not what communism is at all, true communism according to Marx is statless, and the people control the means of production. Where are you getting this crazy definition from?
>>1359867
Why would you use any other definition of communism? Having multiple definitions for the same system just causes confusion and conflict
>>1359871
Yeah, no one can read Thucydides and Xenephon's Hellenica and not see Athens as cancer. Props to them against the Persians though and for having top notch playwrights.
>>1359874
>true communism according to Marx is statless
Marx excommunicated anarchists from the party.
Marx said the end goal was stateless and would naturally happen, but that sort of thing was not what he was directly working for.
>>1359882
But it was his end goal, how could you say that is not what he was working towards?
Regardless, your definition still makes no sense. Where are you getting it from?
>>1359838
>bold
You misspelled "wrong"
>>1359892
>I believe that if we cut out the hearts of a hundred people and sacrifice them on this alter, it will be bring the all back to life and give them superpowers
>stop saying my beliefs are about cutting our hearts and killing people, they're about superpowers!
>>1359894
No, he's right in a way, since Plato rejected private property.
>>1359918
>I believe that if we cut out the hearts of a hundred people and sacrifice them on this alter, it will be bring the all back to life and give them superpowers
>stop saying my beliefs are about cutting our hearts and killing people, they're about superpowers
....what?
>No, he's right in a way, since Plato rejected private property
>rejecting private property is the only thing you need to do in order to be communist.
Also, thats not entirely true. He said that the Gaurdians should hold no private property and that all the land was ultimately owned by the government, but its not like Plato belived everyone should live in communes.
>>1359918
It's an oligarchy with a highly, highly structured class system.
He's right "in a way" as long as that "way" is words having no meaning.
>>1359918
Just got two weeks off work for vacation. Spent the first two days planning and then left for it soon after. You're saying the planning was the real vacation?
>>1359838
That's just the Republic. Laws is his example of a state that could actually be build IRL.
