Best World War 2 generals that were not Commonwealth, American, or German. Japanese welcome.
Zhukov, Rokossovsky, Chuikov, Yeryomenko were all great generals. I'm on the fence about Semyon Budyonny. His defense of the Carpathians was incredibly important to soviet supply lines, but I wouldn't br surprised if anyone could defend such a geographical area against an army depleted by the battle of Stalingrad.
>best WW2 generals that were not the best WW2 generals
Ok
>>1358161
If you want another circle jerk thread about Rommel so be it.
>>1358129
The influence of generals was marginal. Only the material substructure truly mattered.
>>1358178
Bullshit.
And OP, you forgot Vatutin.
>>1358258
>Vatutin
>He was ambushed and killed in February 1944 by the Ukrainian Insurgent Army.
btfo by kockholes
>>1358129
Based Tiger of Malaya has always been one of my favorites. Kurabayashi is also pretty interesting.
>>1358129
Manstein was better.
>>1358258
You right you right...
>>1358178
Nah.
>>1358414
The dicks who killed him ought to be ashamed. He took part in some of the largest and most important battles during the war. His innovative tactics at Kursk helped win the day.
>>1358620
>Based Tiger of Malaya
Im half and half on Yamashita. Sure he only had 30,000 men and whipped the British, but how much of that was strategic genius, and how much of that was British incompetence? His defense of the Philippines was a disaster.
>>1358638
K
>>1358657
True, the bongs were begging for a military disaster at Singapore, but I still believe that Yamashita's skill played a large part as well. As for the Phillipines, I don't know as much about his command there, but for all I know perhaps he just wasn't as skilled at defensive operations. I still love him either way though :)
>>1358749
Aight I get ya. I wonder if there were any overtly skilled Chinese commanders during the war. Chang-Kai-Shek was renowned by Americans as being stubborn and a terrible tactician.
>>1358169
>Rommel
>good general
>>1358855
don't talk shit about the desert fox yo
>>1358129
Budyonny suffered from the fact that he had a hard-on for cavalry. Hence he's know more for his work during the civil war and the Polish-Soviet war.
>>1358845
Not that I know of. And the political shambles that was the Chinese military structure, where forces had to be assembled and balanced based on differing warlords and their influence at the "court" in Chungking makes it difficult to see how they'd arise.
I realize I'm breaking the rule in discussing an American, but I find that Devers is a vastly and terribly underappreciated general.
>>1358940
>only made responsible for one major campaign
>somehow manages to fuck it up
The desert coxucker should have listened when Gudarian spoke
>>1358970
Agreed but his career suffered because Stalin did not let him retreat. This led to the disasters at Uman and Kiev. Had Stalin let him actually retreat from the overwhelming force of the German army he might not have lost 1.5 million men.
>>1359013
Davers was interesting because of his involvement in Cassino and Dragoon. I don't think he was anything revolutionary though considering who he was fighting. His command of the 6th was very successful.
>>1358845
The best Chinese commanders all served with the Communists. Zhu De and Zhou Enlai come to mind but I'm sure there were others. And Mao himself was supposed to be a pretty good commander when it came to guerilla tactics.
>>1359023
Ever hear of France faggot?
>>1359174
You do realize he was a divisional commander in France, right? And there were something like 160 divisions slated for the battle of France, each with their own divisional commander?
He didn't do shit in France except hop when the higher ups told him to.
>>1359192
>>1359174
Ladies please. Who won the war again??
>>1359199
Jews.
>>1359207
*The Good Guys
>>1359174
I've got no problems acknowledging that Germany had some very talented generals, but the ridiculous worship of the mem generals like Rommel needs to stop. The wehraboos love to sit on their high horse (because Germany relied on horses) and say it was all Hitler's fault and "if he had only listened to his generals". well too bad his generals were just as retarded as the Fuhrer half the time.
>>1359238
I have yet to find a wehraboo who will even respond when I point out that the Japanese never had a problem listening to their generals.
>>1359238
Why's it need to stop? People can like who they want. Are you trying to just make a biased history based on how people feel? He did great things like reinforce Normandy for example, he wasn't only a genius in Africa.
>>1359215
>communists
>good guys
>>1359238
>>1359244
>>1359246
This thread has turned into the exact opposite of what I was hoping. Yet I should've expected as such.
>>1359246
He wasn't a genius in Africa at all. He made every mistake of an amateur general.
>>1359259
Rommel turned a mere defensive line into a full fledged offensive force. Of course blunders would happen when you have low supplies. The Brits had constant reinforcements at night. You honestly can't even acknowledge these facts?
>>1359270
>Rommel turned a mere defensive line into a full fledged offensive force
See, when you're a general, and you do that, and then expect to be able to pull it off, don't complain that it turns out the circumstances are magically against you. You're just shit at your job.
>>1359259
>>1359270
>>1359289
I CANT HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF TOLBUKHIN
>>1359293
Why are bolsheboos so autistic
>>1359298
Why are wheraboos unable to have intelligent conversation?
>>1359289
>Complain
Literally what? He was fighting more than three countries in a shitty desert and managed to push out. The Afrika Korps was destined to fail regardless of the odds.
>>1359310
You're just whining. You haven't discussed your waifu whatsoever
>>1359321
Now this is just assumptions and not facts. You're a shit historian, I understand your opinions. Go hug your John Green pillow.
>>1359317
I've tried.
>>1359321
I am tired of Wehrmacht generals being discussed. Rommel was a good armor commander. He still made strategic mistakes that cost him North Africa. Had he lived during Normandy, he wouldn't have been able to save the Germans either. German generals were good, but they are soo fucking over-hyped. I'm amazed people still discuss them to the extent that they do.
>>1359346
This I can agree with. Some people like what they like, like I said before. The Wehrmacht has an attractive allure, simple as that.
>>1359328
If Rommel was perfectly aware he didn't have the supplies necessary for an offensive into Egypt, but still did it, that makes him incompetent. If he was not aware, then he's incompetent. Either way, Rommel's generalship was horrible, and he doesn't deserve to be called any special title other than shit.
>>1359346
>missing the point
You responded to two people discussing a German general, then flailed with a post screaming "LOOK AT ME, CHECK OUT THIS PICTURE", and then complained that it was wehraboos who are incapable of intelligent discussion.
>>1359366
The point of this thread is non-Wehrmacht generals. Because the Wehrmacht generals are discussed so much to the point of retardation and worship. It is annoying.
>>1359355
Just like the confederacy. "Noble losers." A "tragic" story of "honor"-filled men fighting and losing. Everyone identifies with it. I just don't get it. Their soldiers were on par with soviet troops in my opinion.
>>1359246
He advocated a plan that had already failed before in Normandy. That's not really a point in his favor.
>>1359366
And regardless of these, he's still a hero and a monument to Hitler's sins. He was a great man above all of his blunders. It doesn't even matter because it's all over anyway. There's no point in going against the grain because no one will recognize your waifu.
>>1359385
Normandy was lost when the battle began. The allied deception in the Calais meant the Germans could not reinforce in the amount of time given. If they were to beat the allied they would've had to do it immediately, and Hitler wouldn't have allowed that. A Mecha-Rommel couldn't have saved the Germans.
>>1359388
>great man
Did you ever meet him? As far as I am concerned, he lost his chance at being a great man when he fought for the subjugation of the free world.
>>1359397
No, but I read his books and read of his exploits. There are reasons that there not only songs but streets named after him. Not sure about your Zhukov.
>>1359397
True, all options did lose at that point.
But recommending the same failed defense they tried against Avalanche when they're relatively weaker is just stupid, and Rommel never articulated why he thought his plan would work when it didn't in Italy.
And as a moral man, he was pretty shut too. He wasn't just a Heer general. He intimately tied himself to Hitler, shot Nazi propaganda in between the fall of France and the North African campaign.
>>1359388
>a hero
A failure
>a monument to Hitler's sins
Like being more competent than Rommel? Or maybe it's just because he helped try to kill the man, because in his heart he was an opportunistic traitor who would do anything to hold as much command as possible. At no point was he on some moral crusade against the Nazi higherups. He was self-interested.
>>1359420
You speak like you actually know this information.
>>1359401
Zhukov has a planet named for him. Songs, books, poems, monuments that survived the fall of the USSR despite being in non-Russian countries, thousands of fan letters after he published his memoirs, an American cigar brand, ships etc....
>>1359426
Then what exactly was Rommel hoping to achieve? They weren't going to win the war. The party wasn't going to end the war. The party wasn't going to close the camps either. The conspirators blamed the shortcomings of the war effort solely on Hitler, not realizing that killing him would do nothing to bring their ideas on how to close it to fruition. They would have broken the party and only caused the hell to be over quicker.
>>1359439
How the fuck should I know? He's dead, he wanted to protect the Vaterland, he couldn't just like Guderian and Von Manstein. They all failed and are dead, and people either revere or condemn them. Rommel's getting an airport named after him, the others aren't. Stop being an edgy loser and accept that he's a popular figure. They're all dead guys in the end.
>>1359432
Don't forget his special white Coke.
>>1359444
I don't care if the world thinks he was a hero, the point is that the facts say he wasn't. He gets undeserved respect just for being a traitor. The others may not have liked their peers but they didn't try to kill them, and for that they're the ones considered evil.
>>1358620
The only reason he managed to beat the British was because he caught the stupid fucks by surprise.
I mean, the IJA had to fight THE THAIS for a few hours and even from the wiki articles, it appears that they got BTFO'd. That, and the strategy the Brits adopted, it was pretty damn clear they wanted to ditch all of Malaya and Singapore to begin with.
Kuribayashi, on the other hand, exploited the terrain of Iwo Jima and tried to cause a fuckton of casualties in the hopes of trying to sway American public opinion about WW2.
>>1358940
There's a good reason he was not liked by most of OKW. And it wasn't just because he was sucking Hitler's dick.
And he should have listened to EVERYONE. Even the idiotic ITALIANS who kept telling him to WATCH HIS SUPPLIES. (Yes, Guderian and I believe von Rundstet actually flew to Africa to advise him)
>>1359366
Yeah, not knowing about Barbarossa hurt him a lot. (I blame this on Hitler, though)
>>1359401
Zhukov is known enough throughout Russia and literally anyone who reads beyond what is taught in schools.
Little known fact: Zhukov developed his strategies when he was out on a little jaunt known as "when he was in China BTFOing the Imperial Japanese Army".
Another little-known fact: Chuikov was in China advising the Chinese army as part of the Soviet Volunteer Group.
>>1359465
No, your OPINION says so. Facts don't dictate judgement dumb ass.
>>1359465
Rommel wasn't even involved with the conspiracy to kill Hitler. He knew it existed, but chose not to participate because he thought it was dishonorable for a Field Marshall to betray his nations leader. The only reason he got wrapped up in the aftermath of the plot is because one of his aides, who was directly involved, tried to kill himself. While he was laying on the floor dying he mumbled something about Rommel and the gestapo overheard it. Thus they were able to ascertain that Rommel knew about Valkyrie and didn't say anything, so they got rid of him.
>>1359478
>Knew it existed
>Told no one
If a friend told you a school shooting was going to happen and you didn't tell the cops you would be in hot water.
>>1359482
Exactly. But it's somehow commonly accepted as fact that Rommel was some gallant hero who defied the nazis and tried to kill Hitler.
Karl Lennart Oesch, most likely thr best Finnish general.
>>1359507
Ooh, some new blood. I've never heard of Oesch, care to elaborate as to who he was and what he did?
>>1359512
One of the most famous Finnish generals. Master of desperate situations and defensive warfare. He's been called the savior of Finland. At the end of Continuation War two-thirds of the Finnish ground forces were under his command and his troops managed to stop the soviet grand offensive in the summer of 1944, and for those actions he received the Mannerheim cross (number 131).
>>1359199
I can only imagine the concentrated joy and emotion felt by those at this parade.
Can you imagine the catharsis they must have felt?
>>1359248
>Genociders
>Good guys
>>1359548
Dumitrescu was good as well. 20,000 killed for only 2,000 Romanians on Romanian soil.
>>1359548
What about Mihail Lascar? He was decent.
>>1359534
That would disqualify the communists from being "good guys" as well.
>>1359470
>it was pretty clear they wanted to ditch Malaya and Singapore
>handing the Japanese the largest capitulation of commonwealth troops ever because they "didn't care" about the city
What? Please explain how and why the British were so desperate to give up one of their most prized Asian colonies. And why would they bother sending two of their most modern battleships to reinforce the city if they didn't care about it? I agree that that Percival led a totally inept defense of the city, but I don't think that reduces the magnitude or importance of Japan's victory in Malaysia.
>>1359560
Just decent. Failed at Stalingrad and the Romanians on the Black Sea coast were nothing special in terms of their operations. All of their successes can be blamed on the German military.
>>1359579
Stalingrad was the fault of Hitler and the OKH. There was nothing that he could have done to prevent what happened.
>>1359577
Generally, it boils down to "home isles first, fuck everything else".
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/publications/pointer/monographs/mono6.html
Force Z (which the Prince of Wales and Repulse were part of) was supposed to have a carrier providing air cover, but due to circumstances, the carrier could not participate
>>1359574
One had a doctrine of genocide.
The other supported genocide as a way to harness the anger the vengeful Russians, Ukrainians, Serbs etc felt against the Germans for the Germans earlier actions.
Germans had a real chance to have an Eastern Europe at its back, instead they tried to kill everybody. Of course the oppressed would be okay with genociding back.
Fucking Nazis.
>>1359630
Stop fucking victimizing everything and just see the world for how it is. Fucking historical revisionists and cry babies.
>>1359630
Go to a mirror and then cry, jesus fuck you revisionists are deluded. This is the reason I didn't go for a history major
>>1359650
>>1359680
How am I revising history? The Nazis used genocide as a doctrine, and the people they did it against were logically pissed off about it, and would predictably be okay with spontaneously committing genocide against Germans in Eastern Europe.
The Soviets were murderers before World War II, but they weren't genociders.
>>1359650
>>1359680
>Revisionist
What exactly is he revising? The Germans were undoubtedly bestial in their treatment of Slavs and other people that "got in their way" so to speak. I don't really see anything wrong with calling the Russians "good guys" although nobody in WW2 was free of having blood on their hands. What was stated earlier is completely true. There is a hue difference between actively pursuing the extermination of an multiple races and classes of people, and those people seeking revenge when the opportunity arises. The Eastern Front was a racial war. The Russians were fighting for the survival of their nation, culture, and people. If somebody invaded your country and caused the deaths of nearly 30 million of your countrymen, wouldn't you want revenge? It doesn't necessarily make it right to massacre people, but if you understand the history behind it you can at least wrap your head around their motives and gain a better understanding of the conflict. Also, I would not at any point call what the Soviets did to Germany "genocide".
Oh look, yet another thread where OP is yet again a faggot.
OP, don't you ever get tired of the taste of dick?
All of the major allied and axis nations had top tier military commanders among them.
>>1359199
The allied powers did, and the soviet union wasn't more important then america or britain were.
>>1359751
>this is what anglos actually believe
>>1359751
Each of the Allies contributed to the war effort, but I'm inclined to see it as such; the war in Europe was won with American industrial power and Soviet manpower. Without either Germany still would have been eventually defeated but it would have taken longer and killed more people.
>>1359725
>Germans begin an offensive war for lebensraum
>ABLOO ABLOO soviets were just as much of bad guys!
>>1359622
Byzantine tastes.
>>1358657
90% British incompetence.
>>1359534
That pic made my day.
>>1358129
Add Antonov/Chtemenko for their great work as chiefs of staff. About Vasilevsky, I have this impression that he was a top-notch general staff officer but not so good at commanding armies on the field, despite the obvious success in Manchuria. Would that be a fair judgement?
The KMT army might have a shitty reputation, but they had a few good generals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xue_Yue
>>1362877
I think his ability to coordinate led him to the deserved title of great general. He laid out plans and coordinated numerous successful offensives. So his ability to plan and organize was superior to most generals of the time. It was him who coordinated the pincer move at Stalingrad after all.
>>1359751
Yeah the allies won. And they were arguing about the generals who lost.
>>1359742
Yeah no shit they had great commanders. Wanna actually talk about some of the forgotten ones for once?
>>1359622
Makes them look good mostly. Chuikov handed his translators a bunch of medals because they were the only people who could preside over a meeting with him and Krebs about Berlin. He wanted them to look more heroic. He also stuffed a composer in the closet, who later fell out after fainting from lack of oxygen.
>>1359608
True, but it was his job to guard the flanks with his men. They were routed rather quickly iirc.
