Just how did they do it?
>>1351541
Sardinia being colonised earlier than the Renaissance.
When will this meme end?
>>1351549
Yes, it makes no sense to me..
People couldn't sail without at least Renaissance era mathematics.
>>1351541
>Just how did they do it?
By trading, the same way all people trade, by talking.
Neolithic doesn't automatically mean everyone was hostile and tried to kill each other on first sight. You'll have had wider tribal groups who were cooperative (which they needed to be, when a group was around 100 people, you needed outsiders to stop inbreeding), and those larger groups will have been somewhat friendly with other large groups, a series of connecting venn diagrams if you will.
>>1351556
>You don't need extensive trade routes to spread durable goods long distances. Just everyone trading with their neighbors + time.
You can't go from Sardinia to Maiorca (see the map) without renaissance era technology, or even from Tunisia to Sicily for that matter.
>>1351571
Please stop posting in this thread.
>>1351571
Yes they did. Its not difficult.
>>1351578
So how did pacific islanders colonise the pacific islands? They are known to have been excellent seafarers.
>>1351592
Neolithic people were much more advanced than you think.
Writing is an entirely different thing. It took 200,000 years for humanity to invent writing, and, bear in mind, its believed that prehistoric man was actually more intelligent than we are today.
>>1351583
It is, you have to build a vessel which requires superior intelligence, take note that these people didn't even know how to write, a fucking 6 year old can write, hell, I've even heard of 3 years old who learned how to write.
These people were so stupid they couldn't literally even write down anything.
>>1351596
You are so uneducated. They colonised the pacific islands before the Spanish had even met them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation
>>1351597
The average Iq of a 6 year old is 80.
The average 6 year old can write and read.
The average prehistorical person couldn't write or read.
What do you think his IQ was?
I'm willing to say no more than 56, like nowadays Australian aboriginals or Pygmies.
>>1351602
You realize any idiot with some spare time can write bullshit on Wikipedia, yes?
I'm not believing a word written in that site.
>>1351603
If i dumped you in a forest with an amazon tribe you could get to the age you are now and still wouldn't have invented writing or reading or know how to write or read.
Writing is a difficult concept for people who've never used it, who live in oral cultures.
>>1351607
Theres a huge list of references at the bottom
>>1351608
>Writing is a difficult concept for people who've never used it, who live in oral cultures.
>writing is a difficult concept
I learned how to write in a few months when I was 6, fucking SIX, get this through your head, how the fuck is it a difficult concept?
Dumbass.
>>1351565
This is truly retarded
>>1351611
And?
You know any idiot can write books about whatever, I want scientific proofs, give me one of these Polynesian vessels, one dated to before the arrival of the Europeans, there is none, this is the only truth I know.
>>1351618
You were taught literacy by people who knew literacy because of thousands of years of writing. If you were born 10,000 years ago you would never know literacy
I learned how to read and write at 4 so you much be a special kind of dumb though.
I can't understand this. Does the faggot in this thread really believe that ancient people couldn't sail away from the coast or that they couldn't handle going from Sardinia to Majorca?
>>1351626
Yes its a conspiracy theory that polynesians colonised the pacific on their own boats. The reality is that theyre all mentally retarded with 56 IQ who couldnt do anything until the white man did it for them.
And everybody up until 6000 years ago was so dumb with 56 IQ that they couldnt even invent writing. But then the brain revolution happened, but only in white people, where we all learned how to read and write and make proper boats
This is what you believe.
Wow.
"sardinia could never have been colonised before the renaissance".
I've seen some really idiotic shit said on /his/ but I'd just like to congratulate you on being possibly the most idiotic, ignorant, or plain delusional motherfucker I've yet encountered.
I presume the renaissance italians went there and built 7,000 bronze age structures for fun did they?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuragic_civilization
honestly, you take the prize for most delusional bullshit I've heard in a long time.
>>1351632
Theres some seriously retarded people in the world. I once argued with someone who believed every single woman with breasts larger than a C cup had fake implants. Perhaps they were a flat chested girl in hindsight.
>>1351630
Normally people are taught in first grade how to read and write, so fuck you you spineless shit.
Either way, you do realize it's not a difficult concept to invent if you have a language, right?
The problem is these dumb shits probably didn't even speak, I'm willing to bet that they grunted like pigs or more realistically like gorillas/chimps, language came to be in Mesopotamia and Egypt and was spread from there.
The only explanation i can find is that their brains were too underdeveloped for language or maybe it wasn't in their culture at all, though these people who are known now as Cromagnons weren't modern humans physically, but rather evolved hominids, so i think the cause was physical, their brains just weren't developed enough for the task of language.
OP of this thread is a genuine moron, move along folks.
>>1351641
You are the least intelligent poster to grace this board.
>>1351541
ONE HUNDRED KILOMETERS BY BOAT IS IMPOSSIBLE BEFORE THE RENAISSANCE
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Man this one is almost as good as the guy whose girlfriend sold his authentic manuscripts at a garage sale.
>>1351632
Realtalk how difficult is it to canoe 200ish miles of Open Mediterranean water?
I have no idea.
>>1351650
It would have been larger than a canoe. It would only about 1-2 days, you only need to go vaguely east, north, west or south, which is easy by the sun, and then once you find the coast you can navigate better from experience.
>>1351603
the average iq for every age group is 100
>>1351650
This glorified canoe under optimum wind conditions should do it in eight hours or so.
>>1351663
Impossible until the spanish
>>1351656
Then how did the Vikings find America?
>>1351673
You do realise people can navigate using the sun, moon and stars.
>>1351641
>Either way, you do realize it's not a difficult concept to invent if you have a language, right?
And yet, it took humans at least 100,000 years to go from walking out of africa, to the first recorded writing...
incidentally, I bet you're going to start talking about IQ again. you do realise that trying to measure past people by IQ is fundamentally flawed?
you for instance, would be considered a complete moron in the neolithic for your completely inability to know how to split a flint to make a sharpened arrowtip.
You probably would be looked on as an imbecile in renaissance europe, because you dont know the Humours and how they alter a person's health...
Actual intelligence has not changed. my brain is no greater than an average person in 1500, or 1500BC. My education is far better. but my intellectual ability to use logic, or observe, is no different.
the fact that you dont understand that fact, unfortunately, tends to show that you're the one who is below average, not the people you're going on about having a "56 IQ".
>>1351656
Ur a epic troll tard and here's your (you)
>>1351666
Actually the Moors were the first to built those, they used them in the Finno-Korean war to great effect.
>>1351675
No we're really in pseudo scientific territories, how would they use the sun if even today we can't use its energy at best?
Let alone the fucking stars who are light years away.
Yes, sure, they used solar panels 6 thousand years ago, do you even re-read your posts before posting them?
Are people in these board just a bunch of retards?
I don't get it.
Tell me how the hell people used the sun and stars to navigate in the stone age.
>>1351673
Human vision in infinite m8
>>1351656
>Wikipedia sure is unreliable.
>Hurr. I herd wikipedia is all false. Its true, I read it in Microsoft Encarta!
Seriously? Have you ever heard of the word "citation" or "reference" ? the references are there. Here you go, since you're too dumb to look for them, here's some:
La Sardegna nuragica, (2013,) M.Pittau, Edizioni della Torre, Cagliari
Gli antichi sardi fra I "Popoli del mare", (2011), M.Pittau, Domus de Janas editrice, Selargius
Sardegna preistorica, dagli antropomorfi ai telamoni di Monte Prama, Sa 'ENA, (2011), F.Laner, Condaghes editrice, Cagliari
Le torri, i metalli, il mare, P. Bernardini, (2010), Carlo Delfino Editore, Sassari
Navarro i Barba, Gustau (2010). La Cultura Nuràgica de Sardenya. Barcelona: Edicions dels A.L.I.LL. ISBN 978-84-613-9278-0.
Montalbano, Pierluigi (July 2009). SHRDN, Signori del mare e del metallo. Nuoro: Zenia editrice. ISBN 978-88-904157-1-5.
Foddai, L. (2008). Sculture zoomorfe. Studi sulla bronzistica figurata nuragica. Cargeghe: Biblioteca di Sardegna.
Il Sardus Pater ei Guerrieri di Monte Prama, (2008), M.Pittau, EDES, Sassari
Storia dei sardi nuragici, M.Pittau, (2007), Domus de Janas editrice, Selargius
Dyson Stephen L., Rowland Robert J. (2007). Shepherds, sailors, & conquerors - Archeology and History in Sardinia from the Stone Age to the Middle Ages. Philadelphia: University of Pennsylvania, Museum of Archeology and Anthropology. ISBN 978-1-934536-02-5.
Lilliu, Giovanni (2006). Sardegna Nuragica. Nuoro: Edizioni Il Maestrale. ISBN 88-89801-11-5. Book on line from Sardegnadigitallibrary.it
Ugas, Giovanni (2005). L'Alba dei Nuraghi. Cagliari: Fabula editrice. ISBN 88-89661-00-3.
Shardana: I principi di Dan, (2005), L.Melis, PTM Editrice – Prima Tipografia Mogorese, Mogoro, ISBN 88-87393-21-4
Depalmas, A. (2005). Le navicelle bronzee della Sardegna nuragica. Cagliari: Gasperini.
Le Torri del cielo, Architettura e simbolismo dei nuraghi di Sardegna, (2003),D. Schintu, PTM editrice, Mogoro
>>1351685
Unlucky mate you've taken it to far there, you were doing quite well until now
>>1351685
you're trying too hard with this "I'm gong to pretend to be utterly retarded" act.
>>1351685
Im going to assume this is a poor troll and that there isnt a member of humanity this stupid
>its this thread and people thinking ancient man couldnt navigate by sea again
>>1351685
>>1351703
this one comes to mind too.
>>1351656
Ladies and gentlemen, the cancer killing /his/.
>>1351678
>And yet, it took humans at least 100,000 years to go from walking out of africa, to the first recorded writing...
Yes, because they evolved during that time, literally what said, people in the neolithic were Cro Magnons, aka hominids, not actual modern humans (homo sapiens sapiens).
>ctual intelligence has not changed. my brain is no greater than an average person in 1500, or 1500BC
people in 1500 bc weren't anatomically modern humans, at least not in Europe.
> My education is far better. but my intellectual ability to use logic, or observe, is no different.
I doubt it, seeing all your "ad hominem" in your argument.
>>1351684
Source?
Not Wikipedia, please.
>>1351693
You do realize I could go to Wikipedia and write whatever for fun, right?
I could make a page about Romanian flying pigs and no one could stop me.
>>1351639
I thought it was an ebin meme 2bh
>>1351710
>You do realize I could go to Wikipedia and write whatever for fun, right?
And it would get reverted by the large body of administrators if you couldn't back it up. Just try it
>>1351710
>people werent anatomically modern in 1500 BC
Holy shit youre either uninformed as fuck or b8
Seeing how this thread is derailed as fuck, does anyone want to actually tell us how ancient seafaring went down in the Mediterranean?
Any pictures of well known trading cultures during the time (Phoenicians, Carthaginians, and the like) would be appreciated too.
Quality thread guys
>>1351710
>Source?
>Not Wikipedia, please.
page 40 of Finnegans wake
>>1351724
>40,000-753 bc, Europe is inhabited by hominids known as Cromagnon, they most likely didn't have a language but used grunts.
>753 bc: Romans come from Troy/Greecee area of influence and bring sailing vessels to Europe together with themselves (anatomically modern humans)
>476-1492 AD: the knowledge of ship building is lost until the Spanish and Portuguese re-descover and perfection it.
>1830 AD: the steamboat is invented
>1910 AD: modern ships are invented
>1900ish, the plane is invented
>>1351549
Oh God not this faggot again.
>>1351747
>someone in the world legitimately believes this
>>1351710
you must think the earth is flat too
>>1351786
It was until the Renaissance when Columbus made it a sphere.
>>1351812
>Revisionist
Says the one saying Sardinia wasn't colonized until the age of exploration.
>>1351812
>Stop pretending to be me.
I was just pretending to be a gigantic retard.
>>1351816
That's not revisionism, that's common sense.
No island that couldn't be seen from the coast could have been colonized before then, including places like Iceland, Balearic islands, Madagascar and even Ireland.
>>1351710
>at least not in Europe
Afrocentrist detected
>>1351824
>Iceland wasn't colonized before the age of exploitation
You genuinely are retarded aren't you?
>>1351824
During the ice age most of these islands were connected to the continent by land
>>1351824
shit-quality bait anon.
>>1351678
>Actual intelligence has not changed. my brain is no greater than an average person in 1500, or 1500BC.
And your evidence of that is what, mister neurogeneticist?
Intelligence changes but stupidity is always the same.
>This whole thread.
>>1351639
Not that guy, but then how come the entire world wasn't interconnected with trade routes by the time the renaissance came?
By your line of thinking, the period between the 15th and 18th century wouldn't be called the "Age of Discovery" since there would be no need to.
Hell, there would be no talk about race at this point in history. We should be mixed as hell because of all the migration these "ancient sailors" you talk about would cause.
>>1352679
This this this
God I fucking hate all of you morons that don't recognize a week old joke.
Delete this board hiro
>>1352679
It was. The Age of Exploration happened partially because the Europeans were like "fuck the middleman, we're going straight to Asia to get d spices."
>>1352679
>but then how come the entire world wasn't interconnected with trade routes by the time the renaissance came?
It was.
trade routes from china snaking over the Gobi desert to India. trade routes from India to the Levant, silver from German flowing to England and wool back. Latten manufacture in Aachen, shipped down the Meuse. trade routes established by the vikings and Rus running amber from the Baltic along the Danube. Burgundian Linen traded as far as Scandinavia and turkey. Blades forged in Passau down the Danube, blades forged in Solingen down the Rhine, reaching Byzantium in the east, Ireland in the west.
A thousand trade routes existed, and were crossing the entirety or Europe and beyond long before the medieval era. Hell, tin from the British Isles was being traded to the Mediterranean 3000 years ago, jade from the dolomites in northern italy was being traded to Scotland even earlier. There's even been finds of opium seeds originating in Afghanistan found in archaeological digs of crannogs in Scotland. Likewise, there's a mountain of Asian finds in the digs of viking age Birka.
I would strongly recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Profit-Merchant-Medieval-Europe/dp/0500285942
Its a comprehensive and highly-regarded study into the trade and economic transfer of goods in the middle and high medieval eras of Europe, with passing study of the Levant and Africa, and earlier periods too.
>>1352725
>silver from German
that should've read "silver from German City-states."
>>1352725
Thanks anon, maybe your post will bring some perspective to the anons in this thread and their delusions of adequacy.
I'm impressed. This is one of the most ridiculous trolls I have seen in a while
>>1351578
What prevented people from just sailing towards the same direction until they found land? After enough tries someone is bound to get lucky
>>1351647
I remember that shit. Good times.
>>1351541
>finally thread about really interesting topic not far from my area or expertise
>trolled into oblivion
fuck my life, /his/ was a mistake
So that's what Recentism does to a human brain.
>>1351541
What were the sea peoples then?
End this thread
>>1352679
The entire world was connecting by trade routes, barring the Americans. The issue is people at both ends of the trade route don't know about each other even if they buy each others goods.
>We should be mixed as hell because of all the migration these "ancient sailors" you talk about would cause.
We are all mixed as hell, there isn't a single racially pure person alive except uncontacted tribes, barely, and australian abbos. A basic genetic test will reveal the average european to have a whole host of what they would consider foreign genetics inside them.
>>1352725
I saved this some time back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhanite
>>1353229
Possibly related.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belitung_shipwreck#Cargo_and_.22Tang_treasure.22
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_influences_on_Islamic_pottery
>>1353224
People who only sailed along the coast.
>>1351618
Please tell me you are trolling
Dont be this kind of retarded
>>1351747
Cro-magnum men...
>>1351641
Are you actually passionately racist towards Neolithic peoples?
>>1351877
I like this painting. What is it?
They probably had ships during neolithic times
>All the retards ITT who think the ancients were stupid
Greek colonies shuts you all the fuck up. Just look at greek colonization and then tell me you need compasses to sail properly you downies.
>>1356362
>greek colonies in neolithic times
The greek language did not even exist at this point
>>1356362
Also the fact that a lot of Greek bronze depended on tin mined mostly in Cyprus and Britain. During the BRONZE AGE mind you.
>>1356310
OK, found it http://www.joh.cam.ac.uk/library/special_collections/manuscripts/medieval_manuscripts/medman/A/B9/B9f133v.htm
>>1351703
ITT: a master ruseman has some fun
Why are you people so easy to bait god damnit
>>1356448
Ah, cheer up. This is still better than religious troll threads and people saying how feminism is destroying civilization.
>why is this board named /his/ again?
>all this trolling, shitposting, and rage
My God, I've never laughed this hard on 4chan in some time now
>>1356487
Actually better than most threads on /his/
Are you guys trying to make this a meme? It's not a good one t.b.h.
>>1351549
B OA T S
O
A
T
S
Someone please post the screebcap.
>>1351747
>Troy was destroyed in the 12th century BC
>Rome was founded in the 8th century BC
>It took Aeneas 400 years to reach Rome from Troy.
>>1352725
> jade from the
DOLOMITE, BABY!
>>1356861
>>1353229
Cool map anon. I'm guessing this is supposed to be from around the 800's?
>>1357169
noice screebcap
>>1357081
no, just Jade
>By 1979 a number of British jade axeheads had been analysed and found mostly to be jadeite, with omphacite also significantly represented; but where they came from remained uncertain. There the matter lay, with little fresh research being done for the next 25 years. But in France the Pétrequins were busy. In the 1990s, with Serge Cassen (CNRS Nantes), they initiated a Europe-wide database of all jade axeheads longer than 140mm, gathering information on mineral composition, shape, colour, finish, context and date. They also undertook challenging fieldwork high in the Italian Alps to look for primary raw material sources and evidence for their exploitation.
>Their own ethnoarchaeological fieldwork on axehead manufacture in West Papua had convinced them that the production of special, "socially valorised" axeheads could have been bound up with beliefs about the supernatural power of certain rock sources. By making the dangerous ascent to high, near-inaccessible and socially-restricted parts of mountains – liminal places between this world and that of the gods and spirits – the axehead makers could get stone that was imbued with the power of the magic mountain.
>Most continental geologists and archaeologists believed Alpine jades had been gathered only from secondary sources in downslope river valleys and screes. The Pétrequins rejected this, and in 2003, after 12 hard seasons of exploration in the Italian Alps and northern Apennines, they were proved right when they found high-altitude quarries – 1800–2450m od – at the south-east foot of Monte Viso, 60km south-west of Turin.
http://www.archaeologyuk.org/ba/ba96/feat2.shtml for a full article.
pic is of green jade axeheads identified as from Monte Viso, found in scotland
heres the same guy from the last thread
