ITT: Battles where the good guys lost.
This is probably the worst board on this site.
Unironically worse than /s4s/.
Want to talk about good guys and bad guys?
>>>/a/
>>1331334
Get over it edgelord. If you think this board is one of the worst, then I don't know how you could tolerate the autism that goes on most of the other boards.
>>1331344
>"Every academic historian is edgy not me"
Ok
>I don't know how you could tolerate the autism that goes on
I don't. This is a website for people with mental illness.
>>1331334
How about you actually try going to other boards.
>>1331346
Did you just call yourself an academic historian? Good God, that's arrogant.
>Mental Illness
Well, you're still here, aren't you? Must have something in common with the mentally ill anons.
>>1331353
>Did you just call yourself an academic historian?
No, reread my post.
>you're still here, aren't you? Must have something in common
Doesn't logically follow.
>>1331353
He is probably gonna claim he heard about this place from a friend or something
>>1331354
>The Nazis were the good guys
>Filename says Stalingrad instead of Berlin
Get out
>>1331359
because 4chan is a secret club for people like you even though its Alexa rank places it as one of the top domains in the world
>>1331334
There is no way this board is worse than /r9k/ /tv/ /v/ /b/ so go fuck yourself. Also, sometimes people do actually source cool and obscure stuff. I'vebeen linked to some great primary sources since i've been here. Gotta move a mountain of shit to find the kernal of gold
The war for women's rights
Those whores got what they wanted plus some.
>>1331365
Why does that dude have two pairs of goggles? One pair for wearing and another for making his helmet look rad?
>>1331355
>"Every academic historian is edgy not me"
>Ok
>I don't know how you could tolerate the autism that goes on
>I don't. This is a website for people with mental illness.
You essentially called yourself an academic historian and said the website you're currently posting on is for the mentally ill. Maybe you should reread your own posts.
>>1331372
>essentially called
What does this mean? At any rate what I meant in my initial post was to lampoon your position which stands in opposition to conventional study of history in an academic setting. If you read it again you will see that I don't figure into it at all.
>>1331371
That ancient nazi secret has ye been lost with his tragic demise on the eastern front. But the secret of double nazi goggles is one that you can check out this week on the history channel. Tune in man.
>>1331354
Berlin moron.
>>1331380
You sound like you suck cocks
>>1331362
Didn't check the filename when I downloaded the picture.
Between the Nazis and the Russians,who do you think is the good guy?
>>1331394
Russians, though not by much. There was no real winner there.
>>1331394
Russians, obviously. Anyone who says they'd prefer Nazi occupation to communist occupation is a doofus. Nazis killed you for being born. Communists under Stalin simply killed you for what you said.
>>1331394
Neither. Fascism and Communism are both deeply flawed ideologies that killed millions during and after the war. It's easy to take Russia's side as Germamy attacked them first but they were just as deceptive to the rest of Eastern Europe in their invasion of Poland, war with Finland, and other occupations.
>>1331328
Anglo lies aside, would Napoleon truly have tried conquering Europe again had Europe not declared war on him?
>>1331407
>deceptive
What do you mean?
>>1331380
I called you an edgelord for thinking this is one of the worst boards (it's really not), and then you used one of those cool sarcastic quotes that I never said claiming I think "academic historians" are edgy. When I call you edgy and you redirect it to me calling real historians edgy the "logical" conclusion is that you think you're an academic historian.
>>1331422
What?
>>1331419
The Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. Their secret deal with Germany to fuck over Poland from both sides and divide Europe into different spheres of influence. I suppose the Winter War was mainly a result of border tensions, but they treated occupied populations in the Baltics and other countries only a little better than the Nazis. An example is the June Deportation of 1941.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_deportation
>>1331422
>I don't know how to counter so I will play dumb and reply a single word
>>1331432
>I don't know how to counter so I will play dumb and reply a single word
Dammit, replied to myself.
>>1331445
I don't really see that as "deceptive" though. Just expansionist.
Now that I think about it, why did Poland even exist? Wasn't part of Poland part of Russia during WW1? Or was it totally part of Austria-Hungary?
>>1331453
Counter what?
>When I call you edgy and you redirect it to me calling real historians edgy the "logical" conclusion is that you think you're an academic historian.
This doesn't make sense. Try reading it out loud.
>>1331445
>but they treated occupied populations in the Baltics and other countries only a little better than the Nazis
Bullshit, its the other way around.
Russian occupation was known as the "Year of terror" and Germans were awaited as liberators, despite local distrust of Germans because of 700 year long Baltic-German aristocracy.
Baltic SS legions were formed with the intention of fending off and defeating Bolshevism.
If Soviets had treated Baltics better than Nazis, do you you really think the Courland pocket would have been held till the last day?
That the resistance movement against Soviets would have lasted well into 1950's?
>>1331455
I believe it was partiotioned out of Russia after World War I. Poland even fought the Bolsheviks while the Russian Civil War was raging to remain independent. Still, the way Russia went about expanding was at the great expense of other states (as it always is) even as they passed themselves as liberators to Nazi-occupied territories in Eastern Europe.
>>1331466
If you thought I was disregarding real historiography by tolerating this discussion of "good guys" in history then I can see where you may have gotten your viewpoint from. Yet, I was actually defending this board because it really is a hell of a lot better than the average board on this site like /b/ or /pol/. Real discussion takes place here. Speaking of which, can we end this pointless argument and get back to that?
>>1331488
Okay. So the invasion of Poland was pretty much Germany taking back its Baltic coast and Russia taking back land it lost during the revolution and World War 1.
>>1331334
>I've been here for 20 minutes and I want everyone to know
>>1331466
Not him, but he's basically saying that you're claiming to have authority to judge who is a "academic historian" but in my opinion, you are just another troll.
>>1331487
It's not bullshit. While the Baltic populations saw them as liberators at first, the Nazis soon turned to thier usual practices of mass killings and deportations. Einsatzgruppen roamed the countryside for Jews while thousands of non-Jewish Balts were killed for having the "wrong" political ideology. Resistance movements were set up against both the Nazis and Soviets. The Courland Pocket was formed because the 1st Baltic Front cut off the remnants of Army Group North by capturing Memel, not because the population supported them. The Baltic states got boned from both occupiers. It was truly a terrible time for them.
>>1331344
>>1331348
>>1331365
>>1331505
I'm not that guy but are you guys seriously fine with the state this board is in? The separation of boards is there to literally isolate people who write things like "ITT: Battles where the good guys lost." You are ought to do that on /int or /pol or /b so that people on /his can have discussions about history.
Also just saying this is how it is is not a good argument. Arguing that how it is is not good is a very valid point as the premise of this board is completely different than what it actually is.
>>1331522
I am a Latvian and local sentiment is that German occupation was kinder and better than that of the Russians.
They were more civilized and actually returned land confiscated by Soviets
Latvian feelings towards either sides are best encapsulated in lyrics of their warsongs:
>We will march and beat the Bolskeviks and then we will turn around and push the Germans out as well
>non-Jewish Balts were killed for having the "wrong" political ideology
Commies deserve death, and these claims are exagerated by Soviet propoganda machine.
Here is an example of "German warcrime" report by Russians being a bit off in their estimates:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaspils_concentration_camp
Here is a documentary on soldiers of the Latvian Legion:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salaspils_concentration_camp
I must go so don't await a reply from me, unless this thread will still be up in 3 hours
>>1331415
He didn't have the manpower and logistics anymore. There could have been trouble in long run though, under Napoleon II, but even that is doubtful as Napoleon's conquests has mostly been done via defensive wars, the setting up of puppet states and the spread of enlightenment ideals. Once the ideals have been spread, and if no one attacks France, there would be little reason for an hypothetical post Napoleon Bonapartist Empire to attack anyone.
>>1331545
So the Seventh Coalition was strictly an attempt by monarchs to keep their slaves in line.
>>1331527
>I'm not that guy but are you guys seriously fine with the state this board is in?
More or less, yeah. You are on the wrong website if you want actual academic threads 24/7. I saw one board die due to sticklers shunning anything that they believe didn't fit their strict criteria for content. I don't want to lose another. Anything that topically relevant and inspires honest discussion is welcome.
140 years ago today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Little_Bighorn
>>1331568
>a f*cking white male
>the good guy
ugh
>>1331560
>You are on the wrong website if you want actual academic threads 24/7.
Why do people keep telling me I'm on the wrong website? It's just an anonymous board where everyone can post and it is my honest opinion that this board is in a bad shape. I'm saying this while also enjoying other boards which are quite the opposite of this one namely /pol and /int.
I'm not expecting academic threads but I don't think threads like these which can easily be turned into /int or /pol threads are okay. I can just say:
>All battles of Ottoman Empire
and there will be ten people posting that stupid "TURKROACH" thing. So you want to induce discussions like these? Again I'm not saying only academic discussions should be allowed, but memes can be posted somewhere else.
>>1331552
Well they couldn't exactly just let the guy who'd made an embarassment of them walk home and pretend everything was fine. They weren't taking a big risk by attacking him at this point. There was absolutely no way Napoleon could have declared war on the coalition at that point. It was nothing short of a miracle (and Davout) that he was able to muster a reasonable army in 1815
>>1331584
"Army" is strong word seeing as how the French ranks broke after a little sustained fire.
>>1331580
Anyone who wins a battle is usually the good guy because they ended up writing history. Getting people to seek out battles where the "good guy lost" motivates them to look at history critically.
Dragging this thread back on track: The Battle of Hattin
>>1331628
>Crusades
>good
Explain.
Roman fucking shits
>>1331647
The memes of that battle are so good.
>>1331328
Every lost Civil Warn battle on the South Side.
>>1331787
>Southern plantation owners willing to sacrifice millions of lives just so they can stay rich for another generation
>somehow good
>>1331394
The Russians didn't try to invade germany. Perhaps they would have with more time, but they didn't.
>>1331415
Napoleon conquered Europe in self defense to begin with
All he wanted initially was to rule France
>>1331890
Surely our benevolent monarchs wouldn't throw our lives away just because they held a grudge against a government that took a king out of power. No, if our good monarchs tell us that Napoleon is a warmonger who wants to conquer the world then it must be so.
>>1331394
Long live the Heroes of the Soviet Union!!
>>1331404
>Nazi's killed you for being born
Well isn't that the oversimplification of the year
>>1331415
>>1331911
it's so amusing that the anglos still lie about everything that happened 200 years ago - in which pretty much all major european states declared war on napoleon after having their coffers flooded with pounds and pence and even so they had their assed badly wrecked...
they were "that guy" who decided to show off to his cool friends how much of a badass he was by picking on a random guy just to end with their teeth kicked in
but in the end a mob formed to kick this random guy ass for some reason because they saw him beating the shit out of the british cunt
>>1332335
how so, the nazis killed millions of jews, gypsies, and homosexuals simply because of who they were
Too soon? Technically speaking there was one casualty
>>1331404
>Killed you
Nah they didn't and wouldn't kill my family, or me, or anyone I know. So I'd say the nazis are much better than the Soviets coming in, tearing my country apart, and leaving a memorial of them doing it, too.
>>1331538
Lithuanian here, when I was younger and my grandparents were still with us I discussed the occupations at length with them and their opinion was pretty different from yours. Basically it boiled down to when the russians took over anyone with a significant amount of personal property had it seized. According to my grandmother her father, my great grandfather, owned a turpentine factory outside Vilnius which he had founded, it was seized and he became a worker in the factory he used to own. Additionally the family owned two cows and had one of them seized despite the family having 8 children, there was never enough food after that and she frequently went hungry.
After the invasion the ideology of economic equality of all workers was replaced with an ideology that germans were racially superior to all others, so any action taken by a german towards a slav was inherently justified. The second cow was seized by the germans and the situation became even more dire. A local resistance sprang up which was mainly made up of former communist party members. They showed up at the house of my great grandfather and demanded food and a place to stay (despite the family not having enough for itself) or they threatened to burn the house down.
After the war when my great grandfather died he had spent much of his freetime writing a sprawling treatise on the failures of communism which one of my grandmother's brothers discovered and found to be so toxic that he burned it instead of allowing it to be published and open the family to reprisal.
anyway her feelings were generally
>communism was horrible
>the nazis were worse
>things got better after the war but not by much, though she spoke rather positively about access to higher education under communism
>independence is the greatest thing ever, I love america, we need to integrate ourselves as much into NATO and the EU as possible
I wonder what she would say now given the current situation with Russian aggression.
May 29th 1453
worst day of my life
>>1332670
Anecdotal evidence from neither my side or yours won't prove anything.
Latvian Legion, with 80'000 volunteers, was the biggest foreign Legion of the SS.
Lithuanians protested and boycotted the formation of a Legion, so one was never formed.
These two facts are more showing of the relations our nations had with the Nazi Occupation, and their attitude towards us.(Germans felt they could bully Lithuanians for not falling in line while had to cater to make sure Latvian Legion stays loyal)
I personally feel disdain for Germans, but that comes more from the Northern Crusade and 700 year long rule rather then the Nazi Occupation.
Also
>Lithuanian
>slav
Nu tak beidz brāl
>>1332706
I forgot to put "volunteers" in quotation marks
>Only 20% of those 80'000 were actual volunteers
>>1332706
I said right away that it was anecdotal, I just wanted to provide some interesting personal history you twat.
>>1332713
And I didn't disregard it either, just pointed out why Latvian and Lithuanian experience could have differed, you dunce.
>>1331334
fuck off board elitist ;D
>>1331346
>calling yourself an academic historian on an anonymous imageboard
