Both were some of the original cradles of civilization, regional superpowers in ancient history, and massive population centers in modern history.
So why is India such a backwater place whilst China is the rising star of the world?
What made these two ancient civilizations so different that they created two vastly different nations nowadays?
>>1326855
India has a lot of potential but I swear that Hindi religion is fucking them over
>>1326855
China
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG225dz89TY
India
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXZ4pRhY-kU
Disclaimer: Ignore irrelevant details like "China is the oldest civilization" and focus on the overall conclusion once you've seen the whole video.
But basically India is too decentralized and the central state is relatively powerless compared to the chinese one. I don't find myself prepared to judge if it would be possible to have a more centralized system, probably not, India is very diverse and the indian states zealous of their privileges.
Chinks learned how to poo in loo
>>1326855
>So why is India such a backwater place whilst China is the rising star of the world?
>>1326855
>So why is India such a backwater place whilst China is the rising star of the world?
It isn't.
Real life isn't /pol/
>>1326945
Comparing the two states it's obvious China has a brighter future in terms of economy military and world influence in general over India. Can't speak about the living conditions as both countries are huge and there's probably different conditions in different places but doesn't India have one of the highest poverty rates?
>>1326967
Completely outdated infraestructures too.
>>1326855
Because the traditional Indian heartland is the Indus river valley, which now in Pakistan
>people are STILL comparing China and India
What is this, 2004? This is a history board, by the way.
China has a population that's more uniform, no caste system that would support contlict, and China has been better managed since the neoliberal reforms a few decades ago. One child policy is also a huge deal, less children means more wealth due to the opposite nature of population growth and GDP per capita.
>>1326855
India is growing at a pretty good rate if you've actually read up. That being said, without a strong centralized government like China's its hard for India to grow at a wild rate China did. Being able to enforce one child policies and artificially value their currency is what makes China such a powerful leader in this economy.
It's pretty much entirely down to Deng Xiopeng and his "socialism with Chinese characterists".
Nehruist socialism was better than Maoism, but then Mao died, and China shot up past them.
China is not diverse. India is incredibly diverse.
>>1326855
China adapted capitalist policies while India ran a failing socialist government for decades leading to high corruption and poverty
>>1326904
KEK
>>1327197
China is do diverse it doesn't even make sense culturally or linguistically to describe it as in any way resembling a nation state
>>1327283
China is 90% han.
India didn't have a period where communism dragged it kicking and screaming into the future
2 0 3 0
0
3
0
POO
There are two main differences:
1) An education-focused culture.
2) A strong and centralized state.
That's what makes China far better suited for modernization than India. China shares its scholasticism with other East Asian neighbors such as Japan and Korea, which have made them very successful. China also has a strong enough state to implement reforms to modernize itself.
By comparison, India has a very weak and decentralized government and shitty cultural practices. India will eventually grow into first world status, but it's going to take a damn eternity.
I'm from India. Let me enlighten you.
It's because we're subhuman savages. We literally defecate on the streets because we don't know how to use the toilet. We eat shitty food called "curry" that literally looks and smells and tastes like diarrhea. Our skin looks like shit. We smell like shit. We're small, smelly, manlets with micropenises and weak bodies and tiny brains. We worship retarded-looking blue-skinned animal gods with many arms instead of having normal enlightened religious traditions like the West. We literally worship cows and drink cow pee because according to our retarded Hindu beliefs, cows are holy and must be worshiped. Our entire history is one of humiliation and subjugation by various foreign empires who tried to civilize us in vain. We have literally no philosophy, science, art, inventions, civilization, or culture worth speaking of throughout our entire 2,000 year history. Our Bollywood films are a joke all across the world. Most of us have IQs of less than 80. The "smart" Indians you see in the West are the exception, who have emigrated out of this hellhole; the majority of Indians are legitimately retarded by all medical definitions. We also have a huge inferiority complex when it comes to white people and white skin; I'm pretty sure this was caused by the 200-year subjugation and humiliation and cuckolding of our race by the British. Most of us are all also autistic and have no idea how to talk to females; this is why arranged marriage and rape/sexual harassment are both so common in India.
>>1327331
Indian culture is also pretty education-focused, too, senpai. Sounds like you drank the "East Asian cultures are special snowflakes" Kool-Aid.
The real benefit that China, Japan and SK had is that they benefited from massive economic stimulus programs from the USA. No US financial aid = no East Asian economic miracle.
Sorry to the weebs for destroying their East Asian myth.
Pluralist Tropical stock vs uniform glacial stock
Vegetarianism is definitely suppressive. They could solve starvation if they eased up on some voodoo.
>>1327340
Non-identically so China skills all, whereas India partitions who does the booklearning
http://akarlin.com/2012/08/the-puzzle-of-indian-iq-a-country-of-gypsies-and-jews/
The biggest problem with India is democracy, the only efficient way to rule a nation of one billion people is either to balkanize into smaller, more manageable entities or to be led by a centralized, autocratic political entity. Without any real sense of national direction, bureaucracy becomes a bloated mass of redtape and politicians become too involved in reelection campaigns and populists decisions than they are with actually running the country which takes tough calls that not everyone will like. Can't do that in a democracy
>>1326862
You cant tyoe sbit like that and no explain.
Stupid asshole.
India is experiencing high growth, it is just that China's geography and location are more favorable. Trade partners closer to India than China. Much of India is in the tropics and disease is very deleterious to human capital, much of the population in the Indo-Gangetic plain is far from the coast.
The Brits fucked over India.
>>1326862
>Hindi
>Religion
Why is this board retarded?
>>1327359
>first toilet gets built
>LOOK AT 100% GROWTH RATE
India is actually seen as a foreign investment nightmare and no one wants to put money into India. The redtape and corruption makes it near impossible to make money there
>>1327339
I'm Chinese, and I think you're being too critical of yourself. We had the exact same self-hating attitude in the last century, and it led only to tragedy. You will never be better if Indian intellectuals continue to think like this. Assuming you're not a troll, I won't bother to address your complaints about skin complexion and the brachial prodigiousness of your gods, but Indian philosophy, science, art, inventions, civilization, and culture were at least world-class in antiquity. You need to get red-pilled about the Brits who destroyed your country, unite behind a single banner, setting aside all petty differences of race, caste or religion. Regain your confidence. Regain your pride. Make India Great Again.
>>1327448
>The redtape and corruption
just like china then?
>>1326974
No poo in loo
he obviously meant hindu religion, people washing regularly on "holy" rivers filled with shit and rotting dead bodies definitely holds them back
Communism made them get up and say fuck u to imperialist parasites. In india it didn't.
>>1326904
They absolutely have not.
>>1326904
lmao
>>1326967
>Comparing the two states it's obvious China has a brighter future in terms of economy military and world influence in general over India.
Nah, China has also saddled themselves with a LOT of problems that are going to pull them inward soon enough. India hasn't grown as fast, but this may be a tortoise and hare situation.
Should the West instigate a breakup of India before the Indians get too organized, in order to eliminate a future threat? I feel like having China around is bad enough, we should at least try to get the Indians while they're weak.
>>1327537
Seeing the Brexit, the west is breaking up.
You're back to Inter-European warfare son!
>>1327540
No the Brexit just means the UK will be closer with the US, which is a good thing considering the West is essentially just the US and it's satellites. The EU can break apart for all I care, as long as Western Europe stays hostile to Russia, they're in the US's pocket.
>>1327550
It really depends on whether Trump or Clinton's gonna be in for November.
>>1327537
Instigating a 'breakup' of India would be more nightmarish for the West than anything. Not only the financial and infrastructural cost of it all, but BECAUSE it is the main counterweight in the region against China, as well as that the political transition of over a billion people in that general region will fuck up the allies in the middle east.
>>1327489
China is still critical of itself. If you're white and in China you can easily land yourself a job against a much more well qualified nonwhite in almost every area that's not the army, hell, perhaps even the army. In my time in Chengdu I saw plenty of large billboards advertising articles of clothing or shit like that featuring both white men and women
Chinese nationalism is confusing. It's surging in China, yet they still insist on promoting Caucasian beauty
>>1326855
In the long term it really boils down to two factors. It is projected by midcentury, India's workforce will be much better per se than China's: with not only a much, much larger working age population, but a much stronger worker:pensioner ratio. It depends on whether or not by then automaton really outweighs manpower
A huge reason India is backwater imo is because there is universal suffrage for the hundreds of millions upon millions of people who don't have secondary education
>>1327523
This is anecdotal, but in highschool I had several Chinese friends that regularly visited china; at the lunch table i heard them tell stories about China. apparently the roadside bathrooms are utter shit, you have to pay to use them, the "toilet" is a hole in the ground ( not that a squatting toilet is a bad contraption ) but a significant amount of the shit people excrete doesn't even make it to the toilet. (This story happened at most five years ago). Now I'm not saying a country can be judged by the standard of it's toilets, but it's a stark contrast to America; where rest stations( next to the highway) seemingly in the middle of nowhere Montana are spotless in comparison. I have the impression that most of China is at primitive as India, but that there are a few modern cities like Shanghai and Beijing.
>>1327628
What counts as an expressway system? Why doesn't the transiberian railroad count?
>>1327628
This again. Expressways are a bad measure of infrastructure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_road_network_size
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_rail_transport_network_size
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/pages/2012-12-06-01.aspx
Having said that India does not really look that good in all of those three areas if you are thinking in terms of its area and population.
>>1327043
and the indian punjab is way more fertile than the pakistani side.
>>1327643
Chinese-Anglospherean people tend to be almost by far the most critical of their home countries
But it's true, if you're not in the coastal cities or higher tier cities, it's pretty primitive. Hell, I lived in Harbin for 2 years, and most of the city was better than my experience in Warsaw. However higher tier cities and coastal cities still boast probably 1/3 the population, and urbanisation is going at an extreme speed
>>1327641
>Caucasian beauty
If you're talking about LE SKIN WHITENING know that it's a modern interpretation of a longass tradition of women powdering their faces white.
>>1327302
This. But also India has only been an independent country for 70 some years now. The 100+ years prior to that Great Britain impoverished swathes of the country and irrevocably altered the native culture. China, despite the "spheres of influence" phase, has been a coherent political entity (under various dynasties) for over 1000 years.
>>1327448
yeah, which is why it got some of the highest FDI in the world
>>1327665
>Coherent political entity
>Late Qing Dynasty, Warlords Era, the civil war even through the Sino-Japanese war
Well you're right in that India has only been independent for a while, but China was heavily factionalised for at least 60 years. I would attribute much more of its modernisation by the reason the guy you replied to stated
>>1327663
A lot of urbanised Chinese people are as pasty as pasty whites, especially due to the fact there's so little exposure to sunlight there nowadays. Also it is quite literally having 'unattainable standards'
>>1327665
India and China were technologically and socially at exactly the same place in 1947
It is not muh colonialism
>>1327643
If you are ever in south east Texas there is a chain that has extremely nice restrooms.
>>1327674
I would argue that it was.
Post nehruvian leaders until rajiv gandhi were extremely left in their outlook, beliving in weird inian style socialism based on village life and self sustainable villages.
At least nehru had a modern outlook on stuff
>>1327283
>China is do diverse it doesn't even make sense culturally or linguistically to describe it as in any way resembling a nation state
Well technically while China is masquerading as a nation state for the sake of the modern world, like Russia it's still pretty much an Empire in Nation's clothing.
Not to mention China has never been a single-race nation. Its a cultural identity.
>>1327673
yeah i think ur right. i'm super high right now.
>>1327681
How did colonialism stop India from industrializing like China? They both became politically stable at around the same time and weren't very different to each other prior to that
>>1326880
I'm not really sure how comparable they are, but China is very diverse as well. You just don't really think bout it bc of the centralized govt and standardization that has taken place as a result of communism.
>>1326855
India's problem was colonialism
>>1327718
and ethnic similarity and a common language.
China is far more homogeneous than India.
>>1327717
>china during the 70s
>"it is glorious to be rich"
>india during the 70s
>"oust the foreign devil, Indira gandhi is literally satan/hitler. We must go back to our village routes.
Gandhian politics was the worst thing to happen in india along with hero worship that all indians have.
>>1327283
There's no Chinese equivalent to the Indo Aryan/Dravidian divide. Existing minorities are highly Sinicized.
Despite the internal diversity of Sinitic,their speakers hold a common identity.
Regionalism amongst Han subgroups doesn't argue for a non-Han identity if anything they present themselves as being more authentic or claim their local vernacular is representative of the ancients.
For example,Yue speakers view themselves as pure Han while degenerating other Han subgroups as impure(Despite having the most native admixture).
People hype up china too much. Remember when Japan was going to take over the world in the 80's? China is making the same mistakes they did at an even larger scale. And unlike Japan China doesn't have a recent tradition of the rule of law to catch them. India meanwhile can't really go any lower and has a system that is at least capable of adaption and improvement.
>>1327812
>can't go any lower
modi may surprise you yet friend.
>>1327491
Different kind of corruption, In China, you have to bribe the local government officials but once you grease the right palms your project goes through, In India you have to track down and bribe every single clerk who touches your application,permits and licensing forms just to move it though the system on top of the government officials, apply thing logic to every contractor you use and you get Indian style corruption which does the opposite of Chinese corruption
>>1327906
>naxalites
>commies
nah
>>1328019
or in india, you bribe the local political party member and he does the rest for you.
>>1327537
Even if they wanted to, both Pakistan and India have large armies and nuclear weapons. Do you really think Americans can just walk in and force them to seperate?
>>1328112
yes. This is how americans believe the world works.
>>1327292
>Han
>one ethnicity
Han is just a cultrual identity with tons of sub groups that claims to be 120% pure han.
>>1326855
Well I am Indian myself, and like many people pointed out India is simply to diverse and self conflicting to work out. First of all, we have a huge Muslim and Christian minorities who often display views which conflict the view of the Hindu majority. Hinduism itself is an incredibly divisive religion due to concepts of caste and due to the fact that the role of god (s) is varies between sects. Also the belief in Non-Violence, Vegetarianism and apathy stemming to the belief in dharma, prevent most Indians of being pro-active. Factor in a divisive and corrupt democracy to the equation, and you got yourself a rancid stew of indecisiveness and religious apathy. Honestly, I think we would be better off having a dictatorship modeled after Nazi-Germany or China during the Deng Xiaoping years.
>>1327339
>micropenis
I've seen aunties enjoy indian macrocock
>>1328163
>sub groups that claims to be 120% pure han.
More like butthurt southern groups with significant native admixture.
T. Min speaker
>>1326855
Colonialism stagnated India's economy for 200 years, and since it was a fucking trading company that captured India, they weren't too keen on free markets and capitalism post independence, the economy opened up only in 1991 and it's been getting better since.
>>1327340
>The real benefit that China, Japan and SK had is that they benefited from massive economic stimulus programs from the USA.
>China
>>1327491
In China the corruption is pro-business.
In India the corruption is anti-business.
>>1327526
You realize that China has been growing faster than America since 1960, and yet is still only 2/3rds our size?
Also, for the second time in 45 years India (officially) grew faster than China last year. That's literally pathetic considering India's per capita GDP is $1,700.
>>1327537
They'll do that just fine themselves.
Ex: Rajan getting evicted
>>1327628
Where is India?
>>1327641
Automation is really picking up. It's honestly a sad thing for uneducated Indians.
Back then labor was worth a lot more than it will be.
>>1327643
That is extremely anecdotal.
>>1327665
India was richer per capita than China in 1990.
Also
>warlord era 1910-1930's China
>coherent political entity
>>1327683
China is better described as a civilization state. Not a nation-state. Although that is changing.
>>1327721
China had a century and a half of JUST. Plus most of China's cities were colonized.
>>1327808
Southern and Northern Han have a divide.
>>1327812
This
>muh analogy
argument is retarded. Especially when the only similarity between the two are the fact they are/were rising relative to America.
>>1328419
>been getting better since
Relative to before that. But 5% growth average is shit for a third world country.
>>1327628
holy fuck russia, are you even trying.
>>1328831
Look at the chart closer. Top right corner.
>>1328748
>Southern and Northern Han have a divide.
There's no such thing as a coherent Northern or Southern identity.
The historical "south" was the middle/lower Yangtze.
Southern Han from Yunnan,Guangdong and Jiangsu wouldn't consider themselves the same.
Historically,Yue speakers viewed the Zhuang as even more Han than the Hakka and Min speakers residing in Guangdong.
>>1328419
China was a war-torn country until after WW2 anyway, around the time India was independent, even later in fact.
Their success has nothing to do with their difficult pasts.
Because China and the other East Asian Tigers had strong centralized governments that didn't take shit from anyone.
Back when they were consolidating power, if you didn't do what the State said, the State had no problem with throwing you in prison, shooting you, etc... and moving on until people listened.
The Great Leap Forward is a tragic waste of life but a good demonstration of just how strong the State was. I can't imagine the central government of India trying to enforce things like the One Child policy and not being laughed off.
