At what point does the exercise of freedom of association become racism, sexism or any other form of discrimination?
Idunno. When does it, OP?
>>1323540
More to that point, does not freedom of association mean the freedom to practice racism, and sexism, in the same way freedom of speech lets you say racist and sexist things?
>>1323570
I don't know either, I don't know much about these issues, which is why I'm asking the closest thing we have to a philosophy board.
My father was a forthright xenophobe, who went into the back of the store he worked for whenever he saw colored customers approaching, and took a cigarette break. He used to say that the worst customers were Chinese, who would always demand a discount, even though he never served any non-white customers himself. My mother, on the other hand, grew up in a very poor area of London, and knew many people of Caribbean and African origin during her childhood. In fact, her best friend at school was from a Jamaican family. She told me never to judge anyone by the color of their skin, except gypsies, whom she demanded I never trust.
>>1323540
When your actions impede the freedom of others.
>>1323597
This
>>1323596
US Constitution doesn't explicitly guarantee freedom of association, but several Supreme Court rulings have established it up as necessary to uphold the 1st Amendment.
The other related piece of legislature is the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Here's the important bit.
>All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
Now I don't know if the refusal of service has to do with freedom of association. As I understand it, freedom of association means you're free to join or leave groups like clubs, churches, unions, political parties. I don't think a business transaction counts as a group for this purpose.
This doesn't really answer your question, but I tried.
>>1323643
Thanks anon, that's helpful. I appreciate that this is a complex question.
>>1323596
I've had a very opposite experience.
My parents grew up in a rural white state and were always very touchy feely about being nice to blacks.
We moved to a majority black city when I was 8 and my personal views on minorities are probably more hateful than a klansman's.
By whatever subjective measure you want.
>>1323675
Grew up in kinda small town usa, but the poor side of town. Mostly mexican though, and a handful of blacks.
Was never racist, and I've never heard anything remotely racist from my parents.
But moving to Chicago has made me super fucking racists. And I haven't even lived in majority black neighborhoods, just shit mixed ones with a third black at tops.
>>1323675
I've only ever known 4 black people personally and all have been chill as fuck.
However, I really dislike east asians.
Model minority my ass.
>>1323596
>except gypsies, whom she demanded I never trust.
Your mother was a wise woman anon
>>1323540
It always is and that is a good thing. We must discriminate. I don't like X. It is my right to not like X. How can society force X upon me (which society does all the time)?
If you hate (loathe) racism, isn't choosing to not associate with racists a form of discrimination?
Well, all freedom of association is discriminatory, it's just that some forms of discrimination in places of public accommodation are politically unacceptable. For instance, it's discrimination if I won't let non-family members in my house, and it also intrudes upon their freedoms both of movement and association (presuming they want to associate with me); however, nobody would call that "discrimination".
It is implicit and baked in the cake.
>>1323540
When they act upon others that do not agree with them.
>>1323686
>But moving to Chicago has made me super fucking racists. And I haven't even lived in majority black neighborhoods, just shit mixed ones with a third black at tops.
Chicago is utter shit.
IT turns anyone in assholes if truth be told and it's corrupt as hell as well as constantly feeding it's problems iwht more fuels.
Yes stripping funding from proven programs to reduce criminality is a great idea. Yep banning guns will surely change the fact that most are illegally obtained.
>>1326534
Like owning a rich country club that does admit non-whites and Jews with rules explicitly designed to filter them out you can still go to another one that isn't stuck in 50's. However owning an establishment that a)no alternatives or b) provides a vital service, has ties with the government or huge part of public sphere is where it gets problematic and where the issues start up.
