>Most Romans worked a six hour day, beginning at dawn and ending at noon, although, occasionally some shops might reopen in the early evening. The city’s forum would be empty because the afternoon was devoted to leisure - attending the games (gladiatorial competitions, chariot races, or wrestling), the theater or the baths - all of which were also enjoyed by the poor (as many in government felt the need for the poor to be entertained).
Why was we not born in a more civilized age?
>>1321876
What are you trying to ask?
>>1321884
why doesn't the gubbament give me free stuff.
>>1321876
Caring for people stopped being a thing long ago.
Nowadays it's "At least you aren't in some poorer place" and usually some meme cause for people to band around which changes nothing and ultimately amounts to nothing because the cause is either useless ora meme or it requires real effort.
>>1321876
They still live this way in the Mediterranean, hence the economic situation right now.
>>1321934
caring for people is still a thing
its called welfare
>>1321954
It's a joke that achieves nothing in many cases.
I'm all about social assistance and free/cheap education and even I admit welfare has huge massive holes and has flaws in many states.
>>1321876
So the Fall of Rome was due to the Italian work ethic.
Source for all this information? Would like to find out more.
I read somewhere that average medieval peasants got about half the year off. And that modern people work harder than ancient and medieval people, for less pay and less leisure time.
>>1321876
fuckikg statist lefty Roman scums.
i'm glad the superior Germanians knocked some sense into those cucks
>>1322294
Peasants can't grow crops in the winter m8.
>>1322294
Yes but comparing a medieval peasant to a modern working class man is just silly in that way.
A modern man has many more luxuries and a much much much higher standard of living compared to said peasant
>>1322403
Thats technology masking social decay
>>1322294
>And that modern people work harder than ancient and medieval people, for less pay and less leisure time
lmao
>>1322422
Social decay is a buzzword
>>1322422
*tips fedora*
>>1321985
You are saying those was nonexistent or much smaller back in the days?
>>1321876
Sounds like modern day Italy
Civility became replaced with technology.Humanity needs nature as to remain civil. Humanity also requires social contact, and I do mean CONtact.
We used to live in peace with nature, and thus the nature was peaceful with us. Now we're at war with it, so it is with human nature, too. Our natural essence being that of peace and prosperity, the chaotic cataclysm which'd changed it from thus? Tech-know-ledge-y.
And oh! The precipice from which we'hve plunged!
Then again, the world at large is PREtty civilized. Anyone who thinks otherwise is quite veritably a fool.
>>1324450
>We used to live in peace with nature, and thus the nature was peaceful with us.
What do you define as "peaceful"?
>>1321876
ai uehara is super duper cute, im sad she's retiring
>>1321934
Daily reminder Rome was a nation state which cared for its "volk"
>>1322322
Are you stupid?
>>1321876
Not acknowledging the fact that Rome had slaves coming out the wazoo, the people didn't need to work because slaves were doing everything
>>1321876
> (as many in government felt the need for the poor to be entertained).
t. marxist historian narrative
Why can't they try to be objective?
>>1321876
>mom i dont need a job look at the romans
>>1325230
>italian parents hate him! Learn this one trick that let him convince his parents to leech off them indefinitely!
>>1321876
Look up the Greeks and Dyonisia. It was a huge festival that lasted a couple weeks where everybody, even the poorest people, drank, did art, watched theater, participated in orgies etc.. The entire city would be shut down.
>>1322424
He's actually correct in the sense that they spent less time working for the benefit of the owner class akin to how wage work functions today. Though obviously they spent more time during the day 'working' on chores and things due to the lack of technology.
Don't forget that it was even easier for hunter-gatherers, who on top of having easy lives and tons of free time, had excellent health and perfect teeth. The early agricultural lifestyle was so bad most of them saw no reason to transition.
>>1321876
>Slaves
Now leave.
>>1325508
Alcohol is a hell of a motivator, though
>>1325257
look up the festival of ghent (gentse feesten) ... it's practically that...
>>1325155
>implying slaves worked for more than 6 hours
>implying slaves didn't go the games
slave=worker
>>1321876
Romans had slaves
>>1326402
>a dozen shitty bands play
>beer on plastic cups
>no (extra) orgies
een waar Rome maatje
>>1324450
>Pretty civilized
Define civilized. If by civilized, you mean so civilized that it's virtually uncivil, then yes.
>>1325508
That's discounting all the civilizational benefits that agricultural lifestyle brings. A hunter-gatherer society would never have developed to modern standards without agriculture.
>>1326838
We have technology that does half the job for us.
>>1324450
*tips fedora*
>>1321906
When an empire reaches a certain level of prosperity, it becomes smart to invest in the happiness of the common people. It's an investment in long term stability.
>>1321876
We substitute entertaining the poor with telling the poor that they'll own the boot stepping on them if they try hard enough, which is less likely than losing the lottery.
>>1326499
Mining slaves died in droves
Is that Ai Uehara?
can't tell cause arr rook same.
>>1327258
Jaaa
Keep in mind that it "worked" in Rome because iirc you only were a true Roman if you were from Rome itself, and they took wealth from all over their conquered empire and funneled it back to Rome for the sake of the Romans.
The equivalent would be if the US sent 80% of its resource wealth to NYC to make all 10 million people living there filthy rich. You can do it, but you're also going to piss off everyone not from there.
>>1327411
This is essentially the case in the U.S. 10% of the population, around 30 million people, controls around 80% of the wealth.
>>1321876
Wasn't there such a thing as slaves in Rome?
>>1327411
>>1327430
These guys are hinting at it too.
>>1327176
Well, bread and circuses certainly haven't gone away if that's what you are saying
Empires are out of fashion, which means you have a bunch of irrelevant nation-states with their own meme ideology and myths.
If people were smart they would all swear fealty to the anglosphere empire and absorb their culture.
>>1322294
This is such a joke, you can do that now, just work half a year in some shit job and then live with the same standarts a peasant would.
>>1321876
>>Most Romans worked a six hour day, beginning at dawn and ending at noon
[citation needed]
Will the proletariat ever rise and seize the means of production from the borgeoisie.
>>1321876
Before I start I want to say that by "Romans" your green text likely refers to non slaves. Slaves came in many different strata, too, and some even owned their own slaves. Some were worked to death in mines. Some were scribes, prostitutes, or entertainers. It's difficult to approach this without acknowledging at least that.
The merciless march of industrialism, the tug-of-war of financial incentives, the constant innovation, and the constant automation of former professions, all add up to create a world where even the most skilled proletariat will have to return to school every decade or two and work long hours just to get a sustainable profession.
The richest among us, content in their financial puppeteering, especially reckless stock trading, passively-generated income from owning means of production, etc. etc. etc. are unable to identify with the proletariat's struggle, think them leeches who "just want free stuff" >>1321906 and wonder why they don't just risk their life savings on a small business that will likely fail, and so on. It boggles their mind that not everyone can just generate passive income, or hide their taxes offshore.
The rich regularly wonder why they are able to sustain themselves while relaxing so hard and the proletariat can't.
"Must be because they're stupid pieces of shit." they often say. The political rhetoric currently is that wealth = merit, that minimum wage and safety regulations "stifle industry" that "taxes are theft" and that Basic Guaranteed Income is "Communism." People making 90 grand a year can often be heard scoffing at the idea that paying an extra 2 grand in taxes a year could help keep the lower classes upwardly mobile. There is a particularly vile assumption that the poor are mostly substance addicted and lazy, and they never bother to trace these tendencies to vice industries that are heavily peddled in the poorest of urban neighborhoods by semi-rich Poverty Pimps.
>>1328993
I make $20,000 a year and I think you're gay. I just have to wait 5 years and then I'll have around $80,000 after living expenses and then I can start my dream business.
Even if it fails, it will be not a loss to me because I plan to fully own the property that I start it on, and both work and live there.
Besides, the rich who aren't prudent will lose their wealth after a few generations.
>>1321876
Was the slave labor they employed not a factor in this at all?
>>1329086
>I make $20,000 a year and I think you're gay. I just have to wait 5 years and then I'll have around $80,000
I hope you're right. I've watched my parents and grandparents all go to school for NON-academic things (not humanities majors) and still get laid off/downsized/screwed over. Maybe I just come from misfortune. I want to be a programmer, so hopefully I picked right. But you have to realize, the opportunties you have are not available to most people on this Earth. You sound like you come from a middle class family in a first world country. You might have scholarships. You might have prepaid.
Almost half the world, over three billion people live on less than $2.50 a day. At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day. More than 80 percent of the world's population lives in countries where income differentials are widening. Do I still sound gay to you? Please don't fall for the myth that we're all temporarily-embarassed millionaires. Even hard working people are taken out in the blink of an eye by injuries, accidents, etc.
>
Even if it fails, it will be not a loss to me because I plan to fully own the property that I start it on, and both work and live there.
Sounds like you have a plan. I hope it goes well. If you make it, and you have children, I hope you teach them frugality, charity, mercy, and love. I'm not telling you what to do, mind. I'm saying what I hope you do.
>Besides, the rich who aren't prudent will lose their wealth after a few generations.
The upper middle class who aren't prudent will lose their wealth after a few generations.
Families multimillionaires and billionaires can be complete morons for a few generations and still be fine. As long as they purchase means of production, they can generate passive income and hire fresh-out-of-college middle class lackeys to run it for them. They can invest. They can purchase machinery. This is still a bit of work, but any of the documentation/tax shit can also be handled by lackeys.
>>1322294
The peasants also didn't enjoy any benefits you currently enjoy like healthcare, electricity, plumbing, efficient waste disposal, education, memes, videogames, a car etc.
As our wants grew, so did our needed income
>>1321876
Most Romans also made the modern equivalent of 50 cents a day. The reason they had the government provide them everything was because it would literally be impossible for them to afford the bare basics otherwise.
>>1327430
I don't think you realize just how much worse that inequality was in Rome though. There it was more like 99.99% of the wealth was controlled by 0.001 percent. And a large (possibly majority) of the city was slaves who had jack-shit.
>>1328205
Not true. The cost of housing alone would wreck you. Even just making ends meet in the crappiest apartment in a small time is a struggle on minimum wage - let alone stretching that out over a whole year.
Also, modern society simply doesn't offer the social life a medieval peasant would enjoy. Back in the day, the whole village would band together to organise large festivals full of dancing, laughter and joy. Now it's a struggle to even make your weekend schedule overlap with a single friend's.
>>1322294
>I read somewhere that average medieval peasants got about half the year off.
You try doing living off subsidence agriculture. Not fun, i can tell you first-hand.
>>1329419
Source? Is this freeborn citizens or are slaves being counted to? Is this just citizens in Rome, or citizens in Roman territories too? Are we talking Republic or Empire? What period?
>>1329459
There's also the fact that houses were built collectively by communities, and resources distributed by farmers. Although this was out of necessity. But, most medieval peasants lived in small huts with dirt floors, no air conditioning, and salt was a luxury, so I wouldn't feel too jealous.
That's not to say income inequality in the modern world isn't appalling. Particularly between first and third world nations.
>>1329398
There are enough food resources to feed the entire world, and then some. So much of it is squandered. Wasted. Thrown in wastebaskets, etc.
Still starvation.
There are 7.4 billion people (recent est.) on Earth.
There is about $52 trillion USD in circulation alone.
Dividing one by the other, you get approx $702.70. There is enough PHYSICAL money on Earth for everyone to have 702.70 USD, if evenly distributed. Not even counting savings accounts, or demand deposits or other non-physical forms of money. Not counting cryptocurrencies either. Despite this, over half the world lives on less than $2.50 a day, and 80 percent of people live on less than $10 USD a day.
This should be at least a little appalling.
>>1329482
I actually agree with his sentiments, but your points are correct. Medieval life was hard as fuck. Especially medical care.
I'd also add, even though you already know, that your first-hand experience with agriculture is blessedly easy compared to what Medieval people had to deal with. You get weather reports. You get modern tools. You get genetically modified crops that are hardier. You get tractors and combine harvesters and solar panels and water purification and and compost tumblers etc. etc. etc.
AND THAT SHIT IS STILL FUCKING HARD.
>working only 6 hours a day
>spending the rest of the day on leisure thanks to gibs me dats
>"civilized"
>>1325280
And also being unsure that they were going to survive the winter and having nowhere to go except maybe into town.
>>1330021
>unironically using /pol/ memes
it's time to stop
>>1321876
Roman citizens could live a life of mostly leisure because they had slaves.
You want your leisure? Bring back slavery.
Slavery = more civilized age
>>1330779
His anime image seems pretty ironic to me
>>1328205
Kinda.
Working at a place like an off shore oil rig you can. Working a decent job then going back to some place with a lower standard of living you can like East Europe, Asia, Africa for a duration up to you can work.
Bread and circus is an effective way to control the poor and keep them in line.
Modern day we have welfare and daytime television.
Bread and circus is not indicative of a benevolent government, it is indicative of a government aware of the less fortunate, and either unwilling or unable to actually help them stop being poor.
>>1321906
>>1321876
All of which you describe was only possible to the few free people due to all the slaves & that is as well why the roman economy collapsed and the "dark ages" arose (that actually brought more freedom to most people), after there were no more slaves around close to rome that could be easily captured.
>>1327132
THIS.
>>1330784
Machines are more efficient than human workers, for most jobs slaves would be used for.
We could still live that life of leisure, and some of us do. A lot actually.
>>1321876
Uh Rome was a pretty shitty place for everyone except the super wealthy.
Everyone else was a slave or disenfranchized. They needed constant loot and plunder from Italy and the rest of the world to maintain their decadence.
>>1331107
>They needed constant loot and plunder from Italy and the rest of the world to maintain their decadence.
Underrated point. The Roman model works great as long as you have wealthy foreigners nearby to plunder and extort.
>>1321876
Because for that to happen in the modern world would require Washington DC to be the city-state at the head of a global empire, with everything outside of the city walls being impoverished and with all work going towards the maintenence of a luxurious lifestyle for the city-dwellers; and with almost all of the work inside of the city done by slaves imported in massive numbers from the rest of the world.
Rome proper was just a hedonistic palace propped up on the enslavement of the entire known world, and eventually collapsed when the resources demanded by the elite ruling class and the military politicians outstripped what the people could supply and the entire system broke down.
Perhaps what you mean is "Why wasn't I born a Saudi sheik or a Rothschild".
>>1326381
This desu
Rome was a slave state and most of the economy was driven by it. Of course the minority citizens did alright
>>1331107
But with the automation now it should be possible.
>>1333588
I sometimes wonder in a future of high automation will we still enforce workdays on the surplus population even if the value of their labor is worthless.
Like all these service sector jobs that produce nothing but shuffle paper around.
