Some claim that the Out of Africa hypothesis is widely used today due to high political tension rather than actual evidence. Any truth to this?
I am skeptical to any chart that just shows pictures of different skulls rather than a few medium stats of many with clear cut definitions.
>>1321404
There's this.
>>1321413
Was more thinking of something like this.
>>1321436
I specialize in fossils and skulls, not skin.
>>1321436
I mean, "This found in x belonging to y" don't say much.
This was found in Peru.
>>1321455
Ah yes, cranial binding. My friends tried to convince me it was an alien hybrid.
No, there is no truth to that. Out of Africa is the only theory consistent with the evidence, which is why it is supported by virtually everyone.
What "political tension" are you even talking about, anyway? What difference could it possibly make to politics?
>>1321466
Bad wording. More like social issues. Some try to claim that it's actually really shady and the scientists are basically pandering to SJWs and such. Standard conspiracy theory-tier stuff.
>>1321452
My point is, I have no idea if those skulls are the norm for said peoples, exceptions or if they can just as well be found elsewhere.
It would be better if someone could come up with a "normal" of measurements for skulls of different races our groups, or are skull shapes not diverse enough for that to be necessary?
>>1321475
>pandering to SJWs and such
...what? How so?
>>1321464
Cranial binding doesn't change morphology, nor does it increase the skull's size.
>>1321478
I think the aborigines/melanesians are the only real outliers I can see.
>>1321484
Basically this picture. They think it's basically a scientific "we are all the same" shtick
>>1321489
Same size, just a different distribution.
>>1321475
I've only heard /pol/ and similar groups assert that out of africa is due to political correctness or whatever other boogeyman. The theory was speculated on as early as Darwin and was pretty widely accepted by the 1950's.
Not to say there's no merit to the multi-regional hypothesis but there's quite a mountain of evidence to overcome.
>>1321505
>Basically this picture. They think it's basically a scientific "we are all the same" shtick
Multiregionalism (which is a fringe hypothesis, to be clear) has us no less "the same," whatever that means.
>>1321540
Here's a better example of what I mean.
>>1321513
...
The longskulls are morphologically anomalous, and larger in size (I.e. Bigger dimensions) than the average current human skull.
Clearly, you are both, ignorant, and idiotic for opining whilst being ignorant.
Just fuck off, moron.
>>1321540
It seems like a lot of the people who promote multi-regionalism think it's actually polygeny, where we would be different species more or less. Polygeny has been thoroughly discredited, multi-regionalism is fringe but at least has some reason behind it, despite not being the best explanation give the evidence at this time.
>>1321475
>pandering to SJWs
this theory has been around longer than SJWs
>>1321564
But that doesn't even make any sense.
>>1321594
I've been arguing with him for a while on /sci/
>>1321375
Bone shapes vary widely even between peoples who are closely related. Compare the skeletons of a great plains Indian and a Yucatec Mayan or Peruvian and there are clear differences in height and shape despite them being descended from a small group of tribesmen who crossed the Bering Sea just 13,000 years ago.
Also compare Hutus and Tutsis, who come from the same ethno-cultural group but diverged in appearance due to one inhabiting the highlands and the other in jungles.
>>1321605
Tell him /his/ says he's a retard.
>>1321605
How good is he at giving sources for his claims?
>>1321564
>An argument? Wait, I think I got this pic I can give ya
>>1321634
This
http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperInformation.aspx?paperID=19566
>>1321615
Yeah that's pretty interesting, Tutsis almost look Ethiopian while Hutus are clearly Bantu.
>>1321628
/his/ has a reputation among "redpilled" boards for being a liberal fagbox safespace. Doubt that would sway him.
>>1321652
Isn't /his/ really pretty diverse politically speaking?
I would say we are more diverse than /pol/ at least.
>>1321505
The picture is dumb because we are the same species as Australoids, even though we look different. Molecular phylogeny and just the fact that other races can create fertile offspring with them is enough evidence.
It is like saying that chihuahuas and German Shepards are not the same species
>>1321662
Yeah there's probably an active anti-communism thread at any given time. Most of /his/ generally agrees that the holocaust happened as reported though so we're zionist shills.
>>1321662
Yes, but a lot of libs tend to be very vocal and call everything /pol/.
>>1321375
>Multiregionalism
The problem with this is that humans from every part of teh world can freely interbreed, which makes sense if we all share a relatively recent ancestor but doesn't make sense if we evolved separately over millions of years in relative isolation.
>>1321741
The hypothesis is that they had frequent contact with one another throughout the pliocene and pleistocene.
So is this "multiregionalism" the racist equivalent of intelligent design? An rebranding of the same search for an excuse for whites or asians to not regard Africans as human?
>>1321836
Something like that anyways. I know that Red China was apparently teaching that they were direct descendants of the Peking Man and his kin.
>>1321781
How? Before the domestication of horses and the invention of sailing, people had little or no contact with distant groups, let alone as regularly as you'd need to keep everyone interfertile.
>>1321836
Seems to be. It's doubly stupid because even the multiregionalists accept that apes originated in Africa, so all their "theory" does is push back the date for the last common ancestor, said ancestor is still an African.
>>1321567
post an article that gives the volume of a skull and that shows that it's not just deformation
just do it
I'll wait
I looked into it
ALL these "freakishly big" skulls just have estimates from people online who never examined them
>>1321375
Wasn't there a huge influx of Caucasoids into East Africa though, creating the Hamitic race? Or was the Hamitic race created in East Africa and spread north into Eurasia differentiating into the other Caucasoid races? Which one? Both? Maybe the predecessors of the Caucasoids and Mongoloids left Africa 70,000 years ago, then a wave of Caucasoids entered Africa sometime in the Neolithic? We know that wherever there is animal husbandry and agriculture in Africa, there were once Hamitic people.
>>1321615
Aren't Tutsi partially Hamitic (even if just a little bit) and Hutu fully negroid?
>>1321836
Polygeny is the really wacky one, that posits that human races are basically different species, arising completely independent of one another.
Multi-regionalism just says that the last common ancestor was H. erectus and that it left Africa 2 million years ago settled all around the world and developed into homosapien in multiple regions.
Out of Africa is the better explanation give the evidence, where homosapien left Africa 100,000 years ago and here we are today.
>>1321920
Much better than this shit.
>>1321953
Why did you call that pic "the Hamitic hypothesis"?
>>1322006
Came with the pic. I rarely change the filename.
>>1321663
so donkeys/zebras/horses are exactly the same then, considering that they can create offspring between themselves?
>>1322159
He isn't saying that they are exactly the same.
>>1322159
also most of the time mules and other hybrifs are sterile...
mixed race people arent...(tough shit i know)
>>1321505
>They think it's basically a scientific "we are all the same" shtick
if anything it's the opposite and subtly implies that africans are less evolved. if i wanted to make a theory that appealed to those types, i wouldn't make one that theorised non africans were just basically africans that adapted to harsher climates.
i really don't get why stormtards get so triggered by the out of africa theory.
>>1322887
Beats me.
>>1322887
Because deep down they know that any "greatness" they have is all due to the accomplishments of people long dead. Even with all their supposed historical knowledge they have, it still can't hide the fact that the greatness of any society is never permanent as great people from all over the world have risen and fallen just as hard.
>>1321375
[citation needed]
Who claims?
>>1321475
[citation needed]
Who tries?
>>1321564
4chan is not a credible citation.
>>1324543
That should have been a red flag. Also, nice pic.
>>1321567
Fuck off back to /x/ you literal retard.
>>1321375
no
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2975862.stm
>>1324541
>someone was racist to me so its ok for me to be racist
tumblr plz go
>>1321505
>pic
>decides that species is an arbitrary notion based on how similar things look rather than actual things like abilities to reproduce together
>>1322887
>more evolved
Chimps have faster mutation rate than us due to competition between males. Are they more evolved than us?
>>1325127
Don't question his logic. It ain't worth it.
>>1325143
>south europe not Terrone
>>1325145
Is this accurate, or exaggerated.
>>1321652
>the board with the most emphasis on historical accuracy and sourcing is seen as having a bent by the other """redpilled""" boards
I'm right-wing, and even I will call out a retard even if they agree with me.
>>1325161
*or exaggerated?
It was meant to be a question.
>>1325161
The description is mostly okay, but the mongoloid skull look shrinked.
On another note, it doesn't account that there are alot variation among Melanesian. Papuan have a quite tight curl, not wavy like Abos.
>>1321564
How does Out of Africa alone even discredit race in the first place?
The conspiracy theory doesn't even make sense.
>>1321375
wow, what a fucking racist man
race isnt real. there's only one skin color, brown
>>1325161
There's no Arabid, there's no South Europanid, there's no berberid, there's not Pygmey id, there's no native americanid.
>>1325187
Might be for scale. Also, those are some interesting hairstyles.
>>1325201
Limited chart I guess. Either that or they're not that morphologically different from what is shown here.
>>1325208
I meant from what was shown on the chart.
>>1325201
The first 3 are Caucasian with minor differences that at most would classify them as subraces.
Also, the example of Caucasian showed in the pic looks like a Nordid, which, skullwise, is really similar to the classic Mediterranid(long faced, long skulled). A more marked difference would've appeared if a Cromagnid skull was showed.
>>1325219
>light eyes
Not all caucasian have light eyes, also the sharp chin part varies from individual to individual and the skull shape too
>>1325161
Ah, this picture is a good point to show difference between "scientific racism" that arose in 19th century Europe and general ethnocentrism common in every society on earth.
In that infograph each race have their own "ideal" physical characteristic. The more someone differ from it, less pure they are. Race are imagined as separate from each other, meanwhile in real life that's not the case.
Look at this jungle dwellers from sumatra. Why a mongoloid have curly hair?
>>1325219
Does this work?
>>1321436
dayum where can i get a cro-magnid paleoatlantid gf
>>1325232
Must be closer to the australoid, which is common in Australia and the Melanesian islands.
>>1321652
Not much of a safespace since /pol/ is perpetually shitposting here.
They usually get triggered themselves when they are met with well thought responses, because they are the right wing version of what people have been calling SJWs these last couple years.
I was surprised to see this board turn out so well. It's not an echo chamber, nor is it constant whining at one another.
>>1325233
If the pic were to make a further division among Caucasians, sure, but I would take a living representative not some fossil skull.
>>1325231
true, the pic would work better with a more representative example rather than such a rare(statistically speaking) phenotype
>>1322887
>less evolved
Nothing is "more" or "less" evolved.
First of all, the current inhabitants of Africa are not the same exact thing as the inhabitants hundreds of thousands of years ago
Second, isolated populations become better suited to their current environments. There is no constant progression to being "more evolved"
Also, it has only been ~200,000 years. The differences aren't very significant. Pretty much just skin pigmentation, height and stockiness, and some things such as sickle cell genes being more common in Africans because it provides resistance to malaria.
The variations between individuals are greater than variations between racial averages.
>>1325255
That pic makes me think of some card game involving races.
>>1325279
>The variations between individuals are greater than variations between racial averages
Lewontin pls go.
Do chimps/gorillas technically have races? If so, someone should name them if they haven't already.
>>1322159
They cant create fertile offspring. They are different species but close.
>>1322159
zedonks, mules, etc are almost always sterile, which is considered a hard-and-fast rule for the species boundary
there's also the soft version of this rule:
if species cannot normally interbreed to produce virile offspring, but a major change in behaviour (like learning a new behaviour, e.g. being active at night instead of during the day) can allow viable and virile offspring, then you're likely dealing with subspecies.
it's a soft rule though, so it can't be applied like a law would be
>>1322159
maybe not, but aboriginal persons and persons of other races can have babies
>>1321455
ayyy
>>1325286
bonobo=nymphomanic pygmy chimps
>>1324541
As an unironic American liberal on /his/, get the fuck out of /his/. I cannot for the life of me understand why faggots go off about "white fragility" when it usually comes up by POC discussing their victimhood. It makes absolutely no sense.
>>1325952
Wasn't that because the proto-Europeans and proto-Asians interbred with Neanderthals and Denisovans?
>>1325773
Approx 4 million years ago, the Congo River formed and the Chimpanzee groups were separated from one another. The Northern Group had to deal with Gorillas and certain predatory dangers that the Southern Group didn't. The Southern Group became the Bonobos.
>>1321375
How would Mitochondrial Eve exist then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve
>>1325807
Its not "white fragility" or "victimhood" to point out that racist are usually on the lower end of the social scale who have very little in terms of personal achievements. Thus hanging onto something like "race" as a source of pride lets them live vicariously thought the accomplishments of others
>>1326009
Does that mean that the chimp-bonobo LCA was more like the bonobo?
>>1325288
It gets much worse and inconsistent later on.
>>1326048
Explain.
>>1326021
>usually on the lower end of the social scale who have very little in terms of personal achievements. Thus hanging onto something like "race" as a source of pride lets them live vicariously thought the accomplishments of others
This ends up happening with any group. The crappiest members have the most to gain by associating themselves with the group, and defining people that way in general. For example, what university you went to - if you're really proud of it 10 years later, you probably didn't deserve to be there in the first place. Whereas the more impressive alumni are impressive on their own, not just because of who they are associated with.
Do OP have a fetish for charts from various groups that advocate alternatives to the most common idea of evolution and human biological history?
>>1326579
What do you think?
>>1326579
>He's got a point there!
>>1326587
Does the migrations of that map start in Africa or the Middle east?
>>1326608
Follow the mito.
>>1325161
Fairly accurate but commenting on skin colour on any of these is wrong. They concern skull shape. Whites, Arabs, Persians, and Indians (Or north indians at least) come under Caucasoid. Same with Mongoloid covering darker and and pale-skinned east asian races, it doesn't matter.
Also capoid and congoid were classed as Sub-races of Negroid. The big four were Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australoid. Anything else came under.
>>1326624
May have done that for PC purposes so they don't sound racist.
>>1321652
Those are just /pol/tards shitposting in every board and pissed because /his/ is the only one calling them out for it
>>1321733
Yes, and anyone who claims that the holocaust happened is a "shill" and anyone who believes theres nothing wrong with homosexuality is a "libcuck faggot".
>>1325161
The aboriginal one is hilariously fake. How are you guys falling this? Are you literally buying every infograph you see?
Pic related: An actual abo skull
>>1326633
It isn't quite probable that some skull shape appears somewhere, spreads everywhere and then those having that skullshape starts adjusting to the local sunstrength with different skin colors but remaining skull shape as a result?
>>1321413
No one's seeing that some of the skulls are centered differently here?
>>1326657
That's from the Andaman Islands, an archipelago in India, not Australia.
>>1326674
Which ones? The only one I can see is the abo.
>>1326675
You know, you could've just made an image search...
http://treatyrepublic.net/content/stolen-aboriginal-remains-reclaimed-scotland
Final Destination:
Civilization selects weakly against intelligence, but living among primitive humans in a hunter-gardener society selects strongly for intelligence.
>>1326685
Same you.
http://www.creativespirits.info/aboriginalculture/people/aboriginal-remains-repatriation#axzz4CRdz2Neh
>>1326693
*same to you.
>>1321375
Out of Africa is legit for human origins, the human races on the otherhand are a bigger mystery to their origins. The fact that niggers the most wild of mankind are found only in Africa and not say in India proves we started in that continent then some of us left and the ones that stayed behind are now the most dangerous creatures on our planet.
>>1326698
That's what 5% Denisovan does to ya.
>>1322081
>In comparison to the Hutu, the Tutsi have three times as much genetic influence from Nilo-Saharan populations (14.9% B) as the Hutu (4.3% B) perhaps demonstrating a Nilo-Saharan origin that supports their pastoralist historical affiliations, as opposed to the Hutu who were primarily Bantu agriculturalists.[1]
>However, a more recent study (Trombetta et al. 2015) found 22.2% E1b1b in a Tutsi sample from Burundi, but 0% in the Hutu and Twa of Burundi.[2] Particularly of the M293 variety associated with Southern Cushitic people and East African pastoralists.[3]
They also have very different cultures, languages and economic models.
>>1326724
Is the african ethnicities based on language or actual genetics?
>>1326727
Bit of both I think.
>>1325231
>Not all caucasian have light eyes
They do when you compare them with African eyes. Even "dark eyed" Europeans typically have colored eyes, not the coal black typical of dark eyed races.
>>1322081
Not true. I've been to both the Congo and Rwanda and the amount of prejudice against people who "look" Tutsi is astounding. You can tell the difference very clearly most of the time.
>>1325286
There are at least two races of chimp, and two species of gorilla (eastern and western) with between 2 and 6 subspecies, depending on how you define it.
>>1326028
Behaviour doesn't typically survive in the fossil record so it's anyones guess what they were like.
>>1321912
Yes. Caucasians back-migrated into (east) Africa. They brought agriculture and afro-asiatic languages with them.
>>1326579
>>1325996
http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics/ancient-dna-and-neanderthals/sequencing-neanderthal-dna
"Neanderthals have contributed approximately 1% to 4% to the genomes of non-African modern humans."
yes
>>1326493
>For example, what university you went to - if you're really proud of it 10 years later, you probably didn't deserve to be there in the first place.
I agree with the rest of your points but this is just untrue. Some people really enjoy the alumni scene and get wrapped up in it even if they were average students while in attendance. People like that aren't doing it necessarily to boast, they're doing it out of fondness for the social scene (not to mention the collegiate sports scene) associated with that university.
>>1326752
I meant more in terms of things like morphology.
>>1326710
You're a moron. Australian Aborigines were more primitive than 99% of Africans, particularly the natives of Tasmania who had lacked the technology of bows, boats and even fire making, even tho their ancestors must have had all three to have settled Tasmania in the first place. Technological backwardsness is a symptom of isolation, not some marker of how "evolved" a race is.
>>1326743
Africans are convinced they can tell where a black person is from, often down to the very tribe. This often leads to hilarity when black Americans visit Africa, and get detained by passport controllers who think they're dealing with a tribesman who has stolen an American passport because they "look" so Tutsi / Hausa / whatever.
>>1326771
I think it's interesting the Bonobos are so matriarchal and peaceful due to not having to compete with gorillas and other apes. I wonder if there is some parallel with human society in those regards. The less problems the more sexually open and female focused the society is.
>>1326771
I'm not a chimp specialist so I couldn;t say. The last common ancestor of troglodytes and paniscus would have come along not too long after humans and chimps parted ways, and our last common ancestor was a lemur-like animal, so I'd expect ancestral chimps to be more gracile like paniscus, but that's just my guess.
>>1326786
And then if new, more agressive beings move in, they wipe them out. That's the state of the more developed civilizations.
>>1325079
Hmmm... tigers/lions or horses/donkeys have ability to reproduce themselves. Are they the same species ??
>>1326786
It's probably cultural. There was a tribe of troglodytes who lived by scavenging off of human trash, a deadly disease wiped out 99% of the males and their whole culture shifted to something very like the bonobos, even as new males joined, they learned the peaceful ways of this tribe and passed them on to their kids.
>>1326791
I think it was more related to little Toumai here. I think some regard it as a semi-bipedal animal, somewhere between Ardi and a bonobo.
>>1326810
How can we possibly even know these things?
>>1326800
No because the offspring is typically infertile.
>>1326822
Observation.
>>1325283
It is as about as accurate and informative as a card game would be.
>>1325255
>Paleo Atlantid
>>1321920
Was it 100,000 years ago or was it 70,000 years ago after the Mt. Toba eruption?
>>1326786
>The less problems the more sexually open and female focused the society is
Probably, but drawing conclusions based on hypothesis of tribal humans/bonobos is flimsy at best since humans build societies with social construct.
For example: Sexual liberation in the West hasn't led to sex being open for everyone in fact it has led to more men being left out of sex. The same issue doesn't apply to Bonobo apes.
Bump
>>1321489
Oh sure, and Chinese feet are just naturally like this
>>1321436
Atlantid? What a load of shit.
>>1324547
The fuck is this picture even saying, do you see that jaw?
>>1329733
Is think this verse sums up what I think of it.
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" Romans 1:22 (KJV)
>>1329512
I don't think I can even remotely begin to imagine how painful it must have been to go through that process.
Also, if there are any footfetishists in this thread, what do think about that?
>>1327205
>More men being left out of sex
I don't disagree with you, but low social status males in Bonobo society are kept out of some sexual activities. A low status male is the lowest on the totem pole. But obviously sex to us is different to them. I'm not even sure how a Bonobo would view sex really, since families of all gender and age fuck all the time just to say hello. Very different to humans in that regard.
>>1321505
I can cherry pick google images too
>>1329893
A disgusting practice that should've been left in the dark ages.
>>1321564
I too, can say absolute bullshit and treat it as fact, regardless of the scientific communities consensus. Watch.
God is real.
Communism has never been tried.
The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, roman, nor an empire.
Niggers work hard to get where they are
Byzantines are Romans.
>>1329918
>God is real.
define "god"
>Communism has never been tried.
which version?
>The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, roman, nor an empire.
for a time it was holy, for a time it controlled the irrelevant city of Rome, but it was not an "empire" if you compare it to a centralized entity
>Niggers work hard to get where they are
now you're just race baiting
>Byzantines are Romans.
The term "Byzantine" did not exist until the 18th century
