What do you guys believe will happen to you when you die? Will your concuss be snuffed from existence? Will you be reincarnated? Will you go to your haven/hell? Ect?
Heaven*
>>1316670
I was just thinking about this last night after I watched the movie Martyrs. Personally, I hope reincarnation is a thing, not because of the existence of a soul, but because consciousness can be transfered. Think, nothing existed for you before you came into this world and since you exist now you will be conscious again within a different body or your consciousness will cease to exist, either is acceptable. If there is a soul, then I still hope reincarnation is a thing because eternity in hell sounds agonizing and eternity in anywhere good sounds agonizingly boring (who wants to live forever?). But if reincarnation is a thing and a souls exist, then what happens in the universe when there is no physical life at all? It's interesting to think.
>>1316702
Honestly a hope there nothing in the end. Reincarnation sounds awful, think about who and what you are. You are who you are because of a bunch of collected event. Where you even yourself yesterday? Reincarnation just sounds like starting over again. Nothing truly learned from one life to another.
You're talking about the black swan domain here. I can no more answer that question than I can predict the future. It's simply an unknown unknown
>>1316755
That's true, if reincarnation is real I hope my next life doesn't involve torture or rape or some shit, I'd rather just be nothing.
>>1316755
Life is the only thing I know and it is exiting. Might as well start a new one and see if im an abortion, a starving african or some chinese middleclassguy.
>>1316670
Why believe when you can know?
Revelation 20
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
That's 96% of you.
>>1316788
But you get another life after that rapelife!
The possibility of getting murderaped again scales with the talent humans have in the centurx to make peace and prosperity, it balances out in a just way.
You dont do good in your life?
Well, you just worked against the common goal of making your next reincarnations less shitty-karma!
Shit makes sense.
>>1316790
But you won't remember, that's the point, it won't be interesting to you. If time is distorted then I hope I'm an upper middle class kid in the 50's because that would be hype shit.
>>1316805
Revelation 21
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
This is the 4% of us who took the pardon, received the gift, and were adopted into the family of God.
>>1316670
Nobody has any real answer to this question.
>>1316828
God does.
Revealed in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.
Above.
>>1316834
The theory that John was on drugs is hard pressed to explain how John saw a one world government, a 200,000,000 man chinese army, the turkish dam across the Euphrates, RFID biochips, a cashless one world credit system; etc., etc., etc.
You return.
You are a self aware pattern that arose from a self aware everythingness.
A point in a shell, only able to sense within your shell. When your shell breaks, when it hatches, you are truly free to experience all of infinity.
but you still have to journey outward from the point of where your shell gave way. You still have to journey through the events in your life, and you will have to infinitely experience and feel and "live" through all the consequences of your actions. This is hell. Where you face, with God-like omnipresence, all the actions of your life. You will feel, as only The God that you are now closer to can feel, all the pain and suffering you have caused to others.
You will also feel all the goodness and joy you spread.
But the sufferings you caused and will thus endure, that is only the first, and shortest step. Even Hitler, who will feel deeply the experience of every person he caused to suffer, will eventually complete the task, and move on and beyond, to everythingness.
An infinite journey toward The Infinite God. An endless ascension toward everythingness, beyond space and time.
>>1316848
*yawn*
>>1316810
Oh my current experience is interesting.
I might miss that ereased memory of my life as a cambodian peasant who got lined up and shot in a ditch but I like the current one.
And then there is of course the daily reminder that we can write down insights for our later reincarnations to follow in order to find truth just like the bhudda did yadda yadda.
Am not a believer tho.
>>1316755
I think the consciousness works like any other type of matter.
When you die, it dissolves and spreads throughout everything. Being born is just a little bits of consciousness that come together and form you.
>>1316845
Who is john?
>>1316848
Needs more grimdark.
What did Islam say again?
>>1316861
John the beloved apostle of Jesus Christ; John the Son of Thunder; John the gospel writer; John the Revelator; John the unkillable.
>>1316670
You are your brain. When your brain stops working, so do you. This isn't hard to understand.
>>1316867
coincidentally, I am Muslim. And that fits into the Islamic narrative.
Judgement day is the process between the human death and infinity. And the Quran often says you "return to God." God also refers to itself as "We".
>>1316893
Unless the brain is wrong about everything.
>>1316845
Well he didn't see any of those things, your just reinterpreting the imagery he used to fit things in our society
>>1316755
depends on the type of reincarnation,for instance Buddhists do not believe in the immortality of the soul, but that bits and pieces get passed on from one to another in an endless cycle.
>>1316902
If I were to cut open your skull and remove your visual cortex, you would be blind even tho your eyes still work just fine. If I were to continue and remove, one-by-one, each part of your brain in turn, you would lose the associated abilities even tho your body (and presumably your "soul") are still intact. There is literally no reason to assume that removing your WHOLE brain would somehow restore the abilities previously removed, and every reason to assume that no brain = no consciousness.
>>1316904
He was taken by God into the third heaven and shown things in our future.
Or you can think he just predicted that one day everyone would be able to view something in the streets of Jerusalem from all over the world, in real time.
As well as all of the other things in the book that are coming true right in your face.
>>1316918
I honestly feel that concus ends at death and are lives are meaningless, but how do I deal with being a nihilist? Ever sense I "realized" this I've fallen down a rabbit hole of depression.
>>1316952
that's delusional.
he was talking about visions, not television. Oh and there is no world government, and the mark is a tattoo of a number, not a microchip.
>>1316963
I was raised by nonreligious parents so it has always been obvious to me that death is the end. I've never understood why this makes people so depressed, surely the fact that this life is the one and only chance we et fills it with far more meaning than it would have if it were just a prelude, or part of an unending cycle.
>>1316918
except that everything the brain senses could be wrong. You missed my point. Even consciousness can be an illusion. The brain is basically organized vibrations of space time that work to make the body sense other vibrations of space time. But if the brain can take advantage of space time to make the body conscious, then it must be taking consciousness from a "pool" of consciousness that permeates across all of reality.
But even that statement is based on what we call logic, but logic might be completely wrong. All facts, science, perception, reason, could all be wrong. You put all this faith into an organ in the head of a primate, just because there is nothing else that your limited form can study.
>>1316985
What a load of bollocks. Why posit that teh brain is a radio when we know it isn't? Why do people who suffer brain damage as children not regain their lost memories / abilities when their brains regrow, as they do in young children? If it's just a radio then this makes no sense, but if the brain itself is the source of consciousness than it's very obvious why this happens.
Lastly, you've got the same problem all dualists have, which is, how does a non-physical "force" interact with a physical brain? What mechanism is involved, and why has no evidence for it's existence ever been found?
>>1316952
>third heaven
so he only made it past Venus in your platonist earth-centric astrology with 7 heavens
>>1316995
>Why posit that teh brain is a radio when we know it isn't?
You are calling it a radio. It has radio functions. but irrelevant to the topic at hand.
>Why do people who suffer brain damage as children not regain their lost memories
Because the brain is part of they body, and only wired to function with the body. You still are ignoring my main point, which states all of reality could be an illusion and none of these events you are pointing out to me might not even exist, or be mere shadows of what is actually real.
>but if the brain itself is the source of consciousness
The brain is where our consciousness is held, within the realm that we can study and observe. But that entire realm can be disregarded as an illusion, especially when you are talking about something like consciousness, which might not even exist even within the realm of science.
> you've got the same problem all dualists have
I'm not a dualist. I'm mostly playing a devil's advocate in regards to saying nothing exists. I actually believe the brain exists, but it's a tiny blob that can sense an insignificant fraction of reality. A tiny blob composed of mass and mass is consciousness as well. A tiny, little thing of consciousness that formed a bubble around itself, causing it to create the illusion of isolation from the consciousness of everything.
>how does a non-physical "force" interact with a physical brain?
the concept of force and physical/nonphysical do not exist. They simply exist in relation to where we are, to our brains. Our brains define force as something that can impact it. but if there is a bunch of other shit around us that our brains are unphased by, that the another type of matter and energy our brains are not composed of, we would never be able to measure or discover a vast majority of those things.
>>1317059
>REALITY IS AN ILLUSION!
Yeah okay m8.
>>1316900
But the quoran also describes several sites of literal torture descriptions in hell like shirts made of tar and people being boiles in sweat and pus.
How do you make this into a metapher for the less garish mechanism you described hell as.
Or is that not sunnah but mostly arabian hadiths, to be shoven into the same corner as the "sperm comes from the spine" sura?
Im genuinly curious, I read the hellfire/heaven parts of the quoran back then and had to laugh all the time together with that turk girl who brought it..
>>1316985
>Even consciousness can be an illusion. The brain is basically organized vibrations of space time that work to make the body sense other vibrations of space time. But if the brain can take advantage of space time to make the body conscious, then it must be taking consciousness from a "pool" of consciousness that permeates across all of reality.
What the fuck are you on about.
Have faith in Satan, ask him to save you, and you shall be saved.
Yeah, I was wondering if you were paying attention to this religion of yours about an evil entity taking over the world with his people being the majority of the population of the planet. Said religion, would have had it's scripture (law - jeremiah 8:8) changed. Also, according to this very religion you claim to profess, if it were true, the master of the household (the saviour) will be called prince of demons, which doesn't quite resound with this jesus fag, as nobody calls him prince of demons, instead, he seems to be worshipped as a "god of this world" and nobody seems to be in the minority here.
Also, I know some people preach satanism, but they claim either that Satan is the bad guy or shit like that, nobody seems to be mentioning that, as suggested by Romans 10:13 "Whoever calls on the name of ????? will be saved." We should declare with our mouths: Save me Satan. Not Lucifer, no other name, Satan.
Prince of demons, they said. Defamed without we having evidence of said evildoing of him.
Well? Do YOU believe your religion as you claim?
>>1316985
How high are you?
>>1316965
With God, all things are possible.
Including being taken into the third heaven and shown the future.
You have ZERO theories on how prescient John's writing is. ZERO.
>>1316997
In reality, there are only three heavens. Our atmo, space, and the third heaven where God and the angels live that overlaps our two at all points and at all times.
Venus is in the second heaven.
>>1317098
The qur'an plagiarized the bible liberally. As in all things, Mohammad was a thief.
>>1317151
This was written in 95 AD.
Revelation 4
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Protip: The history of humanity did not start at your birth.
Countless fedoras have attacked the bible for thousands of years, and the bible remains intact. It remains the anvil upon which thousands of hammers have been broken.
>>1317174
So it doesn't bother you that the only reason Revelations is part of the Bible, and not consigned to the dustbin along with all the other, very similar, noncanonical texts, is because people mistakenly thought it was written by Saint John? Do you take guidance from the Gospel of Thomas, or any of the gnostic texts? They're just as authoritative as Revelation, but for an accident of history you would dismiss Revelation just like you do the Gospel of Thomas.
#EternalDoctrineSoFragile
>>1317208
To be honest though, Gnosticism is the true faith.
>>1317236
It's a lot more coherent but to be REALLY honest it's about as wrong as orthodox christianity is.
I hope there is a heaven, and I wish I could choose to live life over in another world or reality.
>>1317244
So what is right oh wise one?
>>1317164
Dude seriously how much acid have you dropped?
>>1317328
How the fuck would I know? The only thing I know for sure is that I don't and in fact /can't/ know, and neither can anyone else.
>>1316755
I think the point behind reincarnation is building up experiences and lessons on the soul itself, which are supposed to be separate from your consciousness, if I understand it that is.
>>1317163
>You have ZERO theories on how prescient John's writing is. ZERO.
Because it wasnt so there is no need to theorize how
>>1317411
Which begs the question of why we should care about our souls. Why live a life of self denial and prayer for the benefit of a parasite that lives inside you?
>>1317443
Well Buddhists really dont believe in the ego either.
>>1317450
They don't value it but they certainly believe in it. But Buddhists typically posit some kind of personal survival in reincarnation, at it's most extreme there are the people who are "reincarnations of themselves", like the Dalai Lama.
If all goes well, we pass into the Machine.
>>1317463
Explain?
>>1317467
>not praising the Omnissiah
Heretek please
>>1316670
The brain ceases function and the body begins to break down.
What else could happen without making the assumption that we have some magical part that somehow survives all of this?
>>1316963
Why is life any different?
Do things that matter to you, whatever it may be.
>>1317489
Pussy and drugs?
>>1317467
If human society expands out into the universe and thereby is able to grow and develop without the threat of sudden extinction (as is the case if we're confined on Earth), then at some point in the far future, the Machine will be constructed, in some form. The function of the Machine is to establish a link through spacetime to every single human mind that will or has ever existed, and to seamlessly transfer their conscious mind into it's internal virtual world in the milliseconds before their brain is unable to sustain them.
It's a long shot, and the idea relies upon uninvented technology, but you can do some funny things with spacetime if you have the energy of whole galaxies at your disposal, and billions of years of technological development. It's something to do, at least. There's a small, but financially influential group who are and have been working to set the groundwork for this plan, despite general public apathy toward space colonization.
>>1317538
That would be pretty dope.
>>1317545
As far as human knowledge currently reaches, it's the only thing that's worth working on, because the alternative is death, so support space exploration however you can, and thereby trace your line in the blueprint of the Machine.
At the very least, we get spaceships.
>>1317534
Personally that's not for me, but if that's really all that matters to you, go for it, though most people who do tend to be depressed anyway.
I would suggest acquiring a sense of duty to your country.
>>1317538
Zero. It's a zero shot. Everything you see is slated for destruction well within the next century.
Do you remember anything before you were born?
Well that's how it is going to feel after death, my dude.
>>1317208
The author names himself John and says he is an eyewitness to the ministry of Jesus Christ.
You Bart Ehrman victims are pathetic.
>>1317333
None. Drugs are a cheap counterfeit for actual spiritual experiences.
>>1317597
Are you seriously claiming that Revelation WAS written by Saint John? Seriously? There are NO biblical scholars who think this.
>says
You realise "lying" is a thing, right?
>>1316670
Assuming the brain stops working, which it probably does, I think perception ceases eternally.
>>1316670
Hopefully heaven. Bodily resurrection. Probably after a long period of purgation. Maybe Hell if I die soon or become lazy/ discouraged.
>>1317174
I don't give two shits when your particular nonsensical religious text was written. You have no basis for your asinine assumptions other then your own faith.
>>1317174
>Countless fedoras have attacked the bible for thousands of years, and the bible remains intact
Is that supposed to imply Christianity is special?
Some of the central Hindu and Buddhist sutras have a history longer than the 1700 years of the Biblie or Christianity. The Greek Eleusinian mysteries lasted for more than two-thousand years - from the time of the Myceneans to the fall of the Roman Empire - with its tenets, rites, and beliefs largely intact and unchanged. All longer than Christianity, but you'd be hard pressed to call them worthy of faith or even 'true'.
>>1317174
There have been plenty of successful criticisms of the Bible. You're just in a faith where ignoring such things is considered a virtue and where using political power to destroy such criticisms is considered OK. Against the Galilaeans comes to mind immediately.
>>1316670
Your conscious is wiped away from this world, and fades into nothingness. Anyone who says otherwise is retarded, for at the end of the day, the mind is just a product of our brain, a piece of meat. When that decays into a pile of dust/worm shit, so does everything that makes us, "us".
>>1318204
Schopenhauer pls go
>>1317568
>I would suggest acquiring a sense of duty to your country.
Fuck off.
Acquire a sense of duty to humanity and promote space exploration!
>>1318320
Good man.
I think there are enough first-hand accounts to show that there is something after death. The question is, what is it? Who will you see? What will you do?
>>1318360
Anecdotal evidence.
Keep picking from that cherry tree.
>>1318363
What else will you believe, if not those who have been beyond? We necessarily can't gather physical evidence from the next layer of reality. All we can rely on is the experiences of others. We have those. I believe in humans and their good judgment; I don't assume they lie when they have no reason to do so.
>>1318370
Ever heard of a pious crime?
Humans do weird shit.
>>1318370
I agree. I certainly don't think these people are lying, but it is quite a leap to assume that they experienced some sort of reality beyond ours. We don't know for sure what caused the nature of these experiences, but it seems much more reasonable to assume that a brain starved of oxygen is going to concoct some intriguing perceptions. We have to be careful about jumping to the conclusion we wish to be true, when it's more likely these people have experienced the effects of brain trauma.
>>1318320
>accept my spooks
>no, accept mine!
>>1316805
>according to his works
But isn't faith the criterion for salvation?
>>1316670
OP you will be taken to stand before God and give an account for your life. Afterwards when Jesus returns and resurrects the dead the final Judgement will take place during which you and everyone who was every born will be judged. Every book will be opened and every secret made known. There will be two groups on separate sides before Gods Holy Throne. Those who are true Christians will be on his right and given the Mercy seat of Christ judgement and those who are unbelievers will be to his left and given the Great White Throne judgement. Then everything that ever was created will bow before Jesus and proclaim him God eternal.
>>1318320
>Expecting any space exploration to be done without the resources of a nation
>>1318541
We know that people hallucinate.
We know that being deprived of oxygen causes hallucinations.
Someone whose heart is stopped, and thus not providing the brain with oxygen, could easily be expected to hallucinate.
When he is revived and wakes up, he tells fantastic stories about the things he saw.
Do you really think his account even remotely reliable?
>>1316670
You rot in the ground. Nothing waits you after you die but oblivion.
>>1318603
Yeah so your going to tell us a brain dead person will hallucinate?
>>1318204
>the mind is just a product of our brain, a piece of meat
>This is what materialists actually believe
>>1316670
Of course
>>1317568
Pussy isn't for you? You gay or something?
