>early 14th century
>Europe is spiritually united under the twin hegemony of France and the Church
>chivalry, courtesy, prosperity: the height of civilisation
>Gothic architecture
>the beginnings of a scientific revolution at the universities of Paris and Oxford
>the beginnings of an artistic renaissance at Avignon
but then
>Black Plague
>Hundred Years War
>France gets rekt allowing for Italy and Germany to rise to relevance
>Italian Humanists label everything medieval and French as "dark ages", burn books, worship ancient Roman nonsense instead
>300 years of scientific stagnation
>German proto-fedoras chimp out over religious autism
>300 years of religious wars and protestant degeneracy
>the West is forever disunited and loses its spiritual force
Just think, we could have been exploring the galaxy by now, for the glory of Christ!
good thread
The plague empowered the peasants that survived and made way for a strong middleclass in some parts of europe.
At least something.
>>1316369
Actually Italy and the HRE went downward after the Black Death while Western Europe surged ahead and experienced real wages people wouldn't have again until the Industrial revolution.
Compare say Italy and the Dutch
>>1316369
>the beginnings of a scientific revolution at the universities of Paris and Oxford
>Italian Humanists label everything medieval and French as "dark ages", burn books, worship ancient Roman nonsense instead
>300 years of scientific stagnation
Very bad meme.
https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/2416/why-gods-philosophers-did-not-deserve-to-be-shortlisted-for-the-royal-society-prize
>>1316383
That graph doesn't really tell much since the first entry for the Netherlands is 1348, the year the Plague hit. All it really shows is that England seems to not have really suffered from it, although it still had a drop during the later stages of the Hundred Years War.
>>1316395
Can you formulate an argument yourself?
I'm reading this and so far his argument seems to rest on a lack of understanding of the way Aristotle was regarded in the Middle Ages. Yes of course him being wrong about certain things threw everything else he said into question, just as everything should rightfully be questioned, but Aristotle wasn't questioned in the world of natural philosophy until then. His word was doctrine. And the fact that he was being questioned all the time when he was alive is completely irrelevant, we're not talking about the attitudes of ancient Greeks, we're talking about medieval Europe.
>>1316369
No Black Plague/Hundred Years War = Fullmetal Alchemist 2003 alternate universe. This is my headcanon
>>1316395
While the idea that the Renaissance was in fact backwards thinking isn't as well thought out as the rest of Hannam's book, Freeman is just salty his own book pushing the older myth was rubbish.
Let's be honest for a moment, science is still occasionally hogwash and bullshit, only thing that has changed since the Greeks is that we have slightly higher standards for observation and evidence.
>>1316871
You mean we actually have standards for evidence now, since the Greeks didn't know the meaning of the word.
>>1316896
Phrenology was a thing when my grandparents were born, lobotomy too. I wouldn't say the standards used to be that much higher than when the greeks said lol mice just poofed into existence.
>>1316369
Delete this
>>1316369
>German proto-fedoras chim out over religious autism
>>1316920
Phrenology was only abandoned out of political correctness. There's nothing wrong with studying skull shapes.
>we wuz good catholic boys but those evil protestants keeps us down!
tell me more
>>1316953
>Phrenology was only abandoned out of political correctness
Le cultural marxism strikes again lads
>>1316966
Well no, it was the Hundred Years War that did France in, and without France the Church no longer had its armed hand.
>>1316369
>Germany
>Rising to Relevance
>>1317049
Anyone got a watch? I need to check the time desu
>>1316369
meanwhile we were exploring the world
>feelsggodman
>>1317115
btw pt here
>>1317122
I guessed :^)
Ola irmao!
>>1316871
Not really, the scientific method as it exists today is quite rigorous, and it's what enabled technological progress unlike anything else in human history. The whole idea of verifying every hypothesis and constantly putting theories back into question was around for the Greeks.
>a frenchfag is butthurt about not being able to destroy Germany
Usual day I see
>>1316369
>dark ages
>>1317494
The concept of a European identity hardly existed before republicanism, and that identity is really the only thing changing.
In most respects Europe is richer and more peaceful than ever before
>>1317504
>Western Christendom didn't exist before republicanism
>>1317509
There was Christendom, but that cover all Christian kingdoms and empires, European or not. There was not a sense of continental identity shared by people of all classes.
>>1317524
Who gives a shit about Europe, worst meme ever. There is no Europe, never was.
>>1317509
>middle ages
>everyone trying to kill and conquer each other
>"unity"
>>1317535
>everyone trying to kill and conquer each other
You just described all of history since the birth of life.
>>1316395
https://newhumanist.org.uk/2441/in-defence-of-gods-philosophers
>>1317530
Howdy.
>>1316369
Imagine the state that europe would have been in if it had another couple of hundred years of unchallenged Borgia popes, every richer monasteries owning ever more land and crushing ever more peasants into serfdom. The sale of indulgences and veneration of fake relics unchecked...
>>1318367
All those things happened as a result of the Papacy moving back to Rome from Avignon because of the Hundred Years War and the end of French hegemony. If not for that, the Papacy would have remained in France under de facto French control and there would have been no such corruption.
>>1316369
italo-german
>uses a french book of hours
>>1316978
It's used to identify the identities of murder victims so there must be some truth to it
>>1318756
That pic is supposed to illustrate the state of civilisation before everything went to shit.
>>1316383
God this makes me feel like such a rich Jew as a Dutchman. Feels good man.
>>1319743
But it's from the 15th century.
>>1317494
then why were so many wars fought because of petty inheritance claims?
The hundred years war for starters.
>>1319871
1407 if I remember correctly. But it still depicts typical Gothic Era life as it would have been a century earlier, as well as some of the landmarks of France from that time. But in the early 14th century International Gothic art was still in its infancy and still focused on religious motives, so there's not a lot to go by if you want it to be strictly chronistic.
>>1319904
>the inheritance of the kingdom of France
>petty
Shit nigga, tell us what your dad is leaving you in his will.
>>1318907
>phrenology is the same as forensic morphology
you have no idea what you're talking about
facial reconstruction from skull fragments is not even remotely similar to divining personality and intelligence from cranium-bumps
>>1316804
Is this ironic?
>>1316369
>14th century
>dark ages
who calls it like that?
>>1320171
Petrarch, who originated that term, calls everything between the fall of Rome and his own time (about 1350) "dark ages".
Coincidentally, 1350 is exactly when the actual dark ages began, thanks in large part to Petrarch himself.
>>1320213
i've always used the term for the period between the fall of rome and coronation of charlemagne
>>1320227
That's the only way in which it makes any sense. But it's not what it originally meant, or how most people still understand it today.
>>1320227
I use it when talking about the time between the Bronze Age Collpase and the Archaic Era of Greece.
>>1320305
I use it when talking about the dark age of technology that will last until the Butlerian Jihad.
It is actually a bit intriguing. Nobody ever talks about how bad that collapse was. Without it, could things like Christendom and chivalry have survived to this day?
A Western medieval type society conquering space sounds cool as fuck desu.
>>1322001
I know right.
