The fall of the Ottoman Empire was a mistake
>>1316039
Fake map, shit thread, kill yourself.
>>1316039
no the real mistake was not intervening in the greco turkish war
>>1316039
If they took Vienna, they would have a new logistical point.
It would be another Istanbul or Cairo for them to further expand into Europe.
Also the Battle of Lapanto made the Ottomans lose their best commanders.
>>1316039
The mistake was the Crimean War.
The only mistake was that Croats and Serbs defended Europe from Ottoman conquest for so long, and meanwhile Euros were making deals with Turks against Balkan Christians.
>>1316341
You mean Croats defended so fucking long, one of the reasons Croatia looks like that. Serbs were occupied rather quickly... But I agree
True, who wouldn't want to see the whole Europe becoming a shithole like the Balkans?
An oppressive tyranny destroying and murdering?
Greeks and Armenians still thank the joy of being conquered by Turks.
The only empire that in 500 years of existence literally brought nothing new to the civilisation aside murdering and performing genocides and all kind of barbarisms.
>>1316358
As a Croat, I can tell you Serbs did continue to fight in Vojna Krajina for quite a while after Serbia was taken by Turks.
Ironically enough, both Croats and Serbs were more fucked by back stabbing Euros than Turks.
>>1316387
Anon vlachs in vojna krajna are not Serbs at the time, they become Serbs in the end of 19th century, but yeah there was even Serbs and Germans in vojna krajna, employed by Hungary. Better mention Hungarians who actually fought Ottomans
>>1316441
True to that.
Although I must say that both Croats and Serbs would be better in the long run if they all became muslim.
>>1316039
>the fall of the Ottoman Empire was a mistake
You mean the fall of a corrupt and tyrannical empire that caused a massive genocide was bad?
>>1316464
Name one empire that was not corrupt and genocidal?
>>1316446
Well, that's one way of looking at things. I always thought that the fall of Constantinople was a worse event for Europe than both world wars
>>1316253
Which one?
>>1316472
Well, I agree.
But let us remind ourselves who truly fucked up Constantinople long before Turks came.
Crusaders.
>>1316472
>meme events
>>1316358
That was mostly just """Catholic""" France and protefags though.
Catholics and Orthodoxs wasn't much for making deals with them.
>>1316501
French and British is not "just".
>>1316039
Shame that Americas weren't discovered later, so that the reconquista continued on Ottomans
>>1316472
> I always thought that the fall of Constantinople was a worse event for Europe than both world wars
Byzaboos actually believe this
>>1316039
It gets BIGGER every map
>>1317620
I disagree with the post you quoted, but you have to admit that Europe and the Middle East would have been far more interesting places if the Ottoman Empire had never been. The only side-effect is that the ERE would have been more reluctant to share the profits from its trading routes than the Ottomans were and the 1207 plunder of Constantinople would have never occurred meaning that the Italian city-states would have been much poorer, whcih means the Renaissance may have never taken place or would have been delayed.
>>1316469
Swedish, British, several of the French, HRE wasn't genocidal, Dutch, basically all germanics were good boys up til WW1
>>1317764
The world would be much more europe dominated and everyone would be forced to be christian or sumtin.
If europeans found america so to say.
What would be intresting is what would happen if the ottomans sent alot of people to americas and colonized as much as the europeans did, in 1500-1600 the ottomans could buy all kinds of ship to sail to america.
>>1317782
I'm inclined to disagree old chap.
>British
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/worst-atrocities-british-empire-amritsar-boer-war-concentration-camp-mau-mau-a6821756.html
Doesn't mention the Irish Famine and a bunch of other ones.
>French
Couldn't find a conclusive list but just google "French Empire atrocities", there's ones in SE Asia, plenty in Algeria and many on their own soil too.
>Swedish
>HRE
Not reaaaaally Empires
>Germans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herero_and_Namaqua_genocide
>>1317806
It would be Europe dominated but not in the sense that we mean Europe today. A big part of the Middle East would probably be Christian and Europe's borders would extend deep into Turkey, but the wealth would be focused on Southern Europe rather than Northern Europe.
In terms of exploring the Americas, both their merchant and their military branches of the navy were almost exclusively manned by Greeks, Albanians and coastal Arabs, so the mixture of those cultures with American ones would have had incredibly interesting results. However, the Turkish admirals were famously terrible at battle so they would have probably found it quite hard to out-smart the Spaniards, Portuguese, Brits, French and Dutch who were all masters at sea-warfare.
>>1316039
No, it was a failure on the side of the Ottomans, who instead of trying to rally to appeal to their subjects to garner support, just killed them when they didn't put the state first.
The actual mistake was America letting Britain and France cut up the middle east. Those guys fuck up EVERYTHING.
>>1316469
The Ottoman Empire before the 1800s.
>>1317764
No, it would have been equally interesting. The Ottomans created a doorway by removing the outdated Byzantines for ideas from the east to make it into the west, which the Byzantines limited as "heathen".
The Ottomans were part of the trigger for the European Enlightenment, that was basically stalled because of the Byzantines.
>>1317835
>Europe's borders
wat
Which Europe's? The entire history of Europe would've been rewritten. European style Christianity would still lose out to Islam every step of the way as well. if it wasn't the Ottomans, some other Muslim Empire would've taken Anatolia. Probably the Mamluks, or the converted Mongolians.
>>1317871
> The Ottomans created a doorway by removing the outdated Byzantines for ideas from the east to make it into the west, which the Byzantines limited as "heathen".
>The Ottomans were part of the trigger for the European Enlightenment, that was basically stalled because of the Byzantines.
This meme about has to die and is largely promoted in the West to make Islam seem less backwards than it is/was. Of course there were exceptions, but the main reason that Europe re-discovered the classical texts upon which the Renaissance was based was because the Byzantine scholars who had tirelessly reproduced them for centuries, fled to Europe with their collections following 1207 and 1453 with their manuscripts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_scholars_in_the_Renaissance
