ITT: OP Battle Strategies
>pic related, phalanx
>>1314483
>Get flanked
>Die
>Enemy archers
>Die
>>1314503
>le tur tl meme
everyone knows a good cav charge with some spear cav after will destroy one
A phalanx isn't a strategy, Alexander didn't just get a bunch if Phalanxes and throw them at the enemy. It's how you use your units, not what type you use.
Napoleonic warfare was pretty great
>>1314483
YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT A STRATEGY IS, NOR WHAT "STRATEGY" MEANS; DO NOT USE WORDS, OR TERMS, THE MEANING OF WHICH YOU IGNORE; YOU MEAN "BATTLE FORMATIONS", NOT "BATTLE STRATEGIES".
![Mouse-trap[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/nFP4Gqw.png "Mouse-trap[1].png")
Alexander's Mousetrap
>>1314709
THAT IS A TACTIC, NOT A STRATEGY.
>he doesn't know the difference between tactics, strategy, and formations
Nigga you need to learn about this shit before you post
>>1314774
THAT'S AUTISM, NOT A POST
>>1314483
>Battle Strategies
>Phalanx
That's called battle formations, you zionist fuck.
>battle strategy
>posts battle tactics
>>1314865
>calls others out for mistaking tactics for strategy
>makes the same mistake himself
>>1314869
m8 i was trying to help OP
>>1314494
>Actually, phalanxes tended to be pretty arrow resistant, at least to the sorts of bows they were facing when it was a thing.
>indogreek states drop phalanx completely because they got shot.
lolno.
>>1314865
>Bunch of black guys on tiny African horses defeat Roman allies on horses.
Were the Roman allies uses donkeys?
>>1314902
Except that isn't what happened. try again.
>>1314947
Hannibal had Spanish mercenaries bro
surround enemy and harrass and feint all day, raid their baggage train and fatigue them, near the end of the day intentionally create a gap to encourage them to rout then charge for real
I suppose it is easy when you're all cavalry though
MEMES, MEMES EVERYWHERE
Also you mean tactics, not strategies
>>1314952
It is though. The Chinese say that the Dayuan (Greeks in Ferghana) and the Daxia (Bactria) fought mainly as cavalry. The Ferghana horse was considered the best breed in the region.
The only infantry we hear of them is the Chinese word "Fischscale formation." Which frankly means they returned to more flexible Hoplite formations.
>>1314902
You're a fucking dumb ass ignoramus, shut the fuck up
I gotta ask why the greeks didnt make their armor longer
>>1314865
So basically Cannea, considered to be the greatest display of military brilliance in human history, would've failed if the Roman cavalry had defeated the Spanish, Celtic and Numidian cavalry?
That seems like a pretty risky factor for a brilliant plan. It turns out this entire strategy rested on the edge of a knife.
>>1314483
March separate fight united.
What you post is a tactic
>>1315388
Most great battles rested on the edge of a knife.
Alexander the Great got lucky at gaugamela
>>1315165
They had a shield
>>1314813
>35 seconds in
>Your men are running, sir!
>>1315406
The op posted a battle formation, not a tactic, nor a strategy.
This board is full of idiots.
>>1315415
But nigga you could at least protect more incase the enemy got behind your shield. I just wouldnt feel safe unless my balls were covered
>>1315428
Well then extent the question to: Why did virtually no one have armor covering that in the past 5000 years of global history. By the way, you were sorta fucked if they got much beyond your shield anyways.
>>1314483
Combined Arms
/thread
Not Op, but I just looked up the difference between strategy and tactics and it all falls to:
>A strategy is a large-scale action (or series of actions) >A tactic is a small-scale action (or series of actions)
To put it in simpler terms, let's bring up the Total War games: the Campaign Map is where you apply your strategies while the Battle Map is where you apply your tactics, right?
It's sad that most dictionaries seem to make them interchangeable though. I always thought they were synonims.
>>1315424
>The op posted a battle formation, not a tactic, nor a strategy.
Nor an empire.
>>1315410
So if I'm allowed to be cynical, brilliance is pretty much the same as luck? And whether or not a certain move is seen as brilliant or retarded simply depends on its outcome? So if Hannibal's cavalry failed, he'd be remembered as the guy responsible for Carthage's demise rather than a military genius?
This was a fairly OP battle strategy
>>1315552
Brilliance is making fewer mistakes than the enemy. No general ever came up with a foolproof plan and even the best plans turned out horrible because they hinged on a single thing happening or not happening.
Battles are about odds, a good general can definitely alter the odds in his favor but he cannot eliminate them. The worlds best general at the head of a well trained army might have 98% odds of winning his next battle but there will always be this small chance something happens.
>>1315603
Makes sense, but that still makes Cannae a bit surpring to me. The way I see it from my armcharir general's armchair, his box strategy hinged on two important factors:
1. His infantry not routing and retreating
2. His cavalry defeating and routing the roman cavalry
The first he accounted for. By himself being near the center of his line, he showed his faith in his tactic. He and his soldiers both knew that if the soldiers routed, Hannibal would personally be fucked.
What about the cavalry part? Especially the allied vs Numidian cavalry seems to be very equal numerically speaking. What made him put so much faith in their ability to defeat the Roman cavalry? Because they were instrumental, and if they routed then not only would the box be unable to close, but the entire situation could be reversed in Rome's favor.
>>1314956
>he doesn't know about jugurtha and the op numidians
>>1315621
Every general has to count on number one. Battles are not about slaughtering as many of the enemy as possible, they're about the enemy quitting the field in ordered retreat or a rout.
As for two, I believe he did not divide his cavalry in equal halves on both his flanks. He had a numerical superiority on one side and he knew Roman cavalry was shit.
>>1315165
Because that skirt has nice spunk that would be ruined if it was longer
>>1315680
Yay, an actual strategy!
>>1315680
Courland pocket?
>>1315603
This
Guys like Julius Caesar were good because they did things such as try to get the enemy to fight with the sun in their eyes, making them skip breakfast etc. Little things to tip the odds in their favor and still many battles were won by a hair
>>1315689
Operation Bagration.
>>1315692
I finished his book like a month ago and I recall one of his early battles close to a river crossing being nearly lost, besieged garrisons nearly losing and even having to push it hard at Alesia.
>>1315680
Wow what specific battle?
Logistics thread when?
>>1315692
>making them skip breakfast
>>1315732
Germans favored the Phalanx and I don't think they dropped it until after the fall of the western roman empire.
Not sure if you see shield wall as phalanx but that is what the Romans called it.
>>1315567
underated
>>1314999
>milinda's army described as a regular indian army with contingent of archers
>greeks are described as fighting with the aspis shield by sri lankans and indians
>"you are a retard"
Not a single mention of a tercio.
I'm disappointed as ever.
>>1315435
Why indeed. maybe they actually were longer and artists just liked to show off the nuts. Since I cant find a single vase painting of a gorget yet they had them in ancient greece pic related. Plus it was more individual on how the armor looked as well as if the owner wanted small flaps or larger and less of them or simply one row.
>>1315732
Its not really a problem, I made my own and it doesnt hinder my running.
>>1315671
This guy gets it ;)
The brusilov offensive was pretty neat, would have fucked up the Germans better and harder if logistics didn't become such an issue.
>>1315881
whats the dating on the gorget?
>>1315910
I know its before 350 bc but im not exactly sure because I cant find much info on it. However philip of macedonia had one in his grave so we know they had them then, pic related is one from his grave
>>1315934
What are the specs on them?
>>1315947
Again I cant really get info because they are usually overlooked and so either not mentioned from online sources and even in museums they are placed away from armor. Even in the exhibit the gorget isnt anywhere near the armor.
>>1314483
I've always found WW2 British Strategy in North Africa to be interesting, especially since as far as I could understand, they relied heavily on Rommel's consistent inability to provide adequate supply and logistics channels.
>>1315955
>>1315947
Here is another one from some far off museum that I have no idea what its called
>>1314902
The pikes blocked a large amount of the arrows.
>>1314489
>>1314494
This. Supposedly even Sarissa phalanxes without the hoplon to block with did okay thanks to the ranks of raised pikes deflecting a lot of arrows.
>>1314902
>thinking bows were ever actually deadly to armored opponents
Bows are useless against armor. Sure during antiquity (when phalanxes were prevalent) men were less armored, but a standard bronze breastplate/greaves/helmet could protect a soldier from just about any bow at the time.
>>1314865
Came here to post that
>>1314813
That video is a training video. They would do significantly worse if the crowd was actually trying to hurt them instead of just pushing on them and kicking their shields.
>>1316088
>Just about any bow at the time.
Not really.
Just about any bow in Europe, sure, but not in Asia. The mIssile warfare in Europe was rather primitive and performed roles as skirmishers chycking whatever they could chuck at enemies. As opposed to Asiatics in which they deployed in dense formations akin to the battle lines of their melee counterparts. To say nothing of mounted archery.
The Diadochoi ended up employing shitloads of Asiatic archers themselves, and so did the Romans. By the end of the Roman Empire and the start of the Dark Ages in Europe, bow improvements from the Asiatics made archers in the European continent a viable force.
>>1316210
Nah senpai greaves were more expensive, the thorax was made of leather. Pretty cheap in athens.
>>1316217
Not everyone is Athens.
And leather is shit at the kind of damage a composite recurve bow dealt.
>>1316219
True but leather is definelty cheaper than bronze.Bruh you got a shield to protect you mostly and there are tons of videos on youtube showing how boiled leather can take lots of hits. The arrows stay in the thorax like a hedgehog
>>1315830
How much discipline do you need to be one of those front pikemen. Fugg
>>1316232
Any idea why the poorfags didn't use cotton soaked in saltwater like the aztecs?
>>1314483
Phalanx is a tactic at best, and practically it is a formation, faggot.
Strategy typically deals with logistics, maneuvering, and longterm battle plans.
Please stop with these threads.
>>1316450
Isn't cotton a new world plant or at least not easy to find in Greece?
>>1316450
Cotton was probably rarer and more expensive than bronze at that time. It was considered a luxury good until well into the modern era in Europe.
>>1315388
The Carthaginian cavalry were far superior to their Roman counterparts, in quality and numbers.
If youre going to point out anything risky with the plan it would be the fact that had the Romans punched through the Punic center through weight of numbers the entire army would have been routed.
>>1316450
Fertile land for growing things was mostly reserved for food crops, which many battles were fought over
>>1314865
>muh cannae
>hannibal failed to see his own tactics used against him at Zama
>>1314567
Autism
>>1314524
testudo is a siege formation
>>1315772
That's M&B
>>1314503
are those supposed to be Loricas
>>1315621
Hannibal counted on the quality of his troops mostly.
he had the wild Gauls in the middle to get chewed up by the Romans because he knew they would fight like crazy no matter what, he put his heavy spearmen and more professional warriors to do the flanking, and he trusted the numidians to win thanks to their skirmisher tactics, as well as the Iberians being more numerous and powerful than the Romans.
>>1315715
The entirety of Operation Bagration.
>>1314483
How do I get good at total war?
>>1317143
PartyElite
>>1317143
Hammer and anvil, boyfucker. Make Alex proud.
>>1314813
>barbarians BTFO
>>1316014
>when photobashers are at work
Lmao, those fucking polish hacks
>>1317284
>>1315165
gotta have acess to the boipucci after a sweaty battle
>>1314529
Lu bu hates strategy
>>1315603
I disagree, generals like Alexander and Hannibal followed the rules you mention, but they also found ways to break the rules.
>>1315748
>Not sure if you see shield wall as phalanx but that is what the Romans called it.
Are you fucking retarded? Not the original dude but my fuck are you wrong.
Pic related is a TESTUDO, or, a Roman shield wall. It was not called a shield wall you history channel watching retard.
It is also remarkably different in strategy and execution than a fucking Phalanx.
I will not even get started on the fact that a full Phalanx could deflect arrows as they just mingled in with the mess of upward facing pikes.
>>1317400
All fine and dandy but those aren't spear wielding Germans with overlapping shields in that picture if my eyes don't betray me.
Think vikings or normans at hastings, not sure why you are talking about Romans mate.
>>1317384
Well could you give an example.
>>1317332
This guy knows what's up.
Also
>tfw no Greek boi to call you daddy
>>1317421
>not sure why you are talking about Romans mate.
If you cannot see the connection between Testudo formation and many "shield walls" you are simply beyond saving.
Are you seriously trying to tell me men standing in a line with shields and spears is the same as a fucking Macedonian Phalanx?
You are so fucking wrong, just accept it.
>>1315567
kek
>>1317400
>history channel watching retard
I don't think he claimed that Caesar was a Nazi alien running a pawn shop anywhere in his post
>>1314566
may you elaborate on why napoleonic strategy was so great? I always hear that,but never understood why.
>>1314483
The best strategy is a flexible strategy that is tailored to the circumstances with many contingencies in mind.
>>1314483
Swiss Pike Square
Nobody knew how to counter it for centuries, you just throw another pike square at it and hope for the best, pray you don't end up on the pointy end of a stick as you march towards the enemy.
>>1318454
>Nobody knew how to counter it for centuries, you just throw another pike square at it and hope for the best, pray you don't end up on the pointy end of a stick as you march towards the enemy.
This is the same for essentially any Phalanx formation - they are unstoppable all you can do is throw another Phalanx at it and grind it out.
This is of course assuming flat ground, everyone knows the fatal flaw of the phalanx was it's inflexibility.
>>1317427
Gaugemela
rule: infantry in the middle, flanks defended by cavalry, defeat a flank and attack infantry to win
alexander: echelon infantry on left flank so it takes longer to outflank you on the left, dump all cavalry on the right, lure enemy cavalry far to the right to create a gap, lead a charge back to the infantry before you've even finished defeating the enemy cavalry, go straight for Darius to create the illusion he has lost the cavalry battle causing him to retreat
Hydaspes
rule: the enemy will mirror your actions if you want to cross a river
alexander: spend about a month sending a troop up and down the river to look for an opening like clockwork everyday, making feints at an apparent crossing of choice, find a lookalike and make him pretend to be you, then one day leaves lot of camp followers in uniform behind in the camp and send most of the army over the real crossing further downstream
>>1318454
This.
It's basically a phalanx without the maneuverability problems.
War was dangerous then.
And time is a strange thing. You die but time keeps going and your necklace sits in dirt forever.
That's how it goes
>>1314976
Right.
Here's why you're a fucking retard:
>flexible Hoplite formations.
Guess what their name is. Fucking guess. Oh shit, it's PHALANX.
>The Chinese say that the Dayuan (Greeks in Ferghana) and the Daxia (Bactria) fought mainly as cavalry.
Which has nothing to do with "dropping phalanxes because they got shot."
It's a logical move for an outnumbered military force which typically spends its time trying to fend off raiding nomads over a vast stretch of territory that infantry is utterly unable to cover. ESPECIALLY when you flat out don't have enough Hellenes to raise a serious phalanx in the first place.
>>1318454
What's in the middle of them?
>>1318480
Except Anon over there was talking about Macedonian Phalanxes.
>>1318546
Judging by the castle in the background, I assume it's a battering ram.
>>1318147
I don't think you read my post, I am not talking about Roman formations.
Anyways here are the literal words of caesar.... retard
>Accordingly our men, upon the signal being given, vigorously made an attack upon the enemy, and the enemy so suddenly and rapidly rushed forward, that there was no time for casting the javelins at them. Throwing aside [therefore] their javelins, they fought with swords hand to hand. But the Germans, according to their custom, rapidly forming a phalanx, sustained the attack of our swords. There were found very many of our soldiers who leaped upon the phalanx, and with their hands tore away the shields, and wounded the enemy from above. Although the army of the enemy was routed on the left wing and put to flight, they [still] pressed heavily on our men from the right wing, by the great number of their troops. On observing which, P. Crassus, a young man, who commanded the cavalry-as he was more disengaged than those who were employed in the fight-sent the third line as a relief to our men who were in distress.
Have fun in kindergarten today.
>>1318466
The refused flank or oblique order wasn't anything new in those days though, i'd have to do some searching but I recall seeing it before his birth.
A thing that went wrong was that his infantry line opened accidentally and that persian cavalry poured in, luckily for Alexander they went straight to the Macedonian camp to loot rather than to rip his infantry a new arsehole.
>>1318454
Until the musket became a thing, yeah. After that, the pike became a defensive weapon against cavalry, and around 1700 the bayonet made the pike unnecessary, and the linear tactics became the new thing due to the need to maximize firepower. But its impressive nonetheless.
>>1318411
I think what is usually meant by this is not that the tactics utilized the available technology any better than any other era, just that it was an era with a lot of variety in an army's composition and tactics.
>>1317284
>Second to last post
>________________
What did he mean by this?
Why weren't pikes used again until 16th century?
>>1320559
Your question rests on a faulty assumption.
They were in use from the High Middle Ages onward if not earlier.
>>1320634
Why weren't they used in early middle ages?
>>1320667
Well they might have been but I wouldn't know for sure.
My guess would be that folks only really started using two handed weapons again when they had sufficient armor.
>>1314566
Phalanx is a type of formation. In antiquity Greece the term was also used to mean any infantry unit, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to use phalanx to describe a formation of overlapping shields and spear rows.
>>1320667
Because they require large numbers, heavy drilling, and cavalry support.
That wasn't a very common combination in the european early middle ages.
>ctrl f 'sun tzu'
>no replies
>>1315552
The luck factor is true in every aspect of life. There are all kinds of brilliant, capable people out there who busted their asses, fell short because of dumb luck, and ended up digging ditches or whatever.
There are also a lot of morons who had one good idea, got very lucky, and became wildly successful.
Just charge with axes like Vikings did it's a simple tactic yet it allowed them to sack Rome, Constantinopole, conquer Russia and France.
>show up to battle with the same uniform as the enemies
What happens?
>>1321756
Teamkilling on both sides happens.
>>1321775
What if a third of my army was made up of my countries uniform and the remaining quarter the enemies? Will that tip the odds in my favor?
>>1321796
Srsly though did that ever happened in real life? It doesn't seem unrealistic.
>>1315567
>>1314489
trust me, if archers were that effective against it, persia would have crushed greece before alexander was even a sperm cell
>>1321852
You typically leave an avenue for escape, you want the enemy to rout or retreat.
Using pikes in conjunction with pavise shields? Nope, it's taking the worst of both those two things and mashing them together.
>>1318454
aside from shooting it with a cannon obviously
Some one has to have posted this already. Trench fucking warfare+machine guns. Literally the most OP thing at the time. It resulted in cavalry being Nerfed so hard that they have barley been used since.
>>1322021
whoops posted the wrong image
>>1321852
That shield wall would be incredibly difficult to maintain, and complete encirclement is usually less effective than routing and then pursuing your enemy. Also, all accounts of bodies piling up like that in an open battle are of dubious authenticity and firing on your own soldiers is movie-trope bullshit that never happened intentionally.
>>1322021
Overwhelmingly defensive ability and no comparable attacking ability. A recipe for a very unpleasant war
>>1314483
Fabian strategy:
>Your enemy wants to fight and is good at it.
>So you don't. But you don't let him out of your sight either.
>Wait long enough and his men mutiny for want of victories, resupply, and blue balls from all the 'no rape'.
>Unfortunately, you will get called a 'Cunct' afterwards, even by your own people.
>>1320755
sun tzu was a strategist not a tactician
>>1318404
He wasn't?
>>1316244
Well there was the fact that those behind you was bound to put another breathing hole in you if you run, there is also the increased hazard pay. A lot of them are also batshit drunk in "muh honor/country/religion."
>>1324061
Did that even work? They were just lucky Hannibal was an autist.
>>1314483
Soviet Deep Battle
>>1321796
That giant could have easily wrecked their ranks, he could have grabbed a handful of their pikes and used them as a baseball bat, or he could have used their bodies as bowling balls.
If you have a giant there is no excuse for that situation. Fuckers are only 3 deep in some places. He could have just kicked through them. They deserved to die in that battle for that shameful display.
>>1322021
Cavalry, like tanks. Which are cavalry. They replaced horses with machines like everything else.
>>1324103
>ITT: OP Battle Strategies
>>1316244
Front rank got paid double.
>>1324726
thats the joke.jpg
>>1324805
>>1314503
the most beta strategy ever
>>1315646
Thousands of these guys just rushing you in human waves, just to kill only sixty of you.
Despite how pyrrhic the victory was, there is something oddly honorable about how determined those natives were at defeating the obviously better equipped Spanish.
>>1315708
Julius Caesar fucking built a wall around his own siege camp at Alesia to keep out the Celtic reinforcements arriving en masse to relieve the city.
He then used this wall to repel the "attacking" Celts, while also having his soldiers contain the defending Gauls. It's crazy
>>1315567
Jokes aside, this is totally legit
>>1325349
actually, he built two walls... one wall to keep the alesians in and one wall to keep the reinforcements out
