Could Syndicalism work?
>Syndicalism is a proposed type of economic system, a form of socialism, considered a replacement for capitalism. It suggests that industries be organized into confederations or syndicates. It is "a system of economic organization in which industries are owned and managed by the workers".[1]
>Its theory and practice is the advocation of multiple cooperative productive units composed of specialists and representatives of workers in each respective field to negotiate and manage the economy. Syndicalism also refers to the political movement (praxis) and tactics used to bring about this type of system.
>For adherents, labour unions and labour training (see below) are the potential means of both overcoming economic aristocracy and running society fairly and in the interest of informed and skilled majorities, through union democracy. Industry in a syndicalist system would be run through co-operative confederations and mutual aid. Local syndicates would communicate with other syndicates through the Bourse du Travail (labour exchange) which would cooperatively determine distributions of commodities.
>>1308583
No
>Labour unions
>Mutual aid
In my society everyone will help everyone else. You cannot say that will not happen as it is true by definition of my society. Let's throw out the good but not great society we have now for the slight chance that we could reach my society. If it fails let's say we didn't try hard enough.
Neoliberalism killed syndicates.
>>1308583
Labor unions oppose anything that hurts them even if it will help other workers. Even though NAFTA has objectively added jobs, its been opposed by labor unions because it redistributes jobs. There is less of a notion of their own job security.
If anything its just tribalism.
Also enjoy never exploring the galaxy.
There is no incentive to work harder if you get paid the same. However I could see syndicalism working if fear was implemented
>>1308583
No, because not everyone works equally hard / well, and the hard workers will come to resent the lazy / incompetent workers.
>>1308835
>The financials incentives are necessary for productivity myth
Keep trekking
I don't understand why you leftypols have to be so anti-market. Is market socialism really all that hard to comprehend?
>>1309467
Markets are inherently shit, that is why.
I agree with Market Socialism as a stepping stone, but Markets themselves are rife with contradiction and are completely inefficient at distributing goods (What makes modern markets work is the sheer amount of shit that is produced with the vast majority of it ending up in dumpsters).
As soon as we create singularity tier AI, the first job it should be set too is economic planning and fucking off the Market economy.
>ITT: Not even doing the basic research into what Syndicalism is
Where in Syndicalism does it say shit workers don't get an ass kicking? Do Cooperatives all fall over and fail in real life as well?
> Let's throw out the good but not great society we have now for the slight chance that we could reach my society
Yeah, because modern society is working so well, forget climate change, worse and worse market instability, the working class being crushed to death, automation and neoliberalism. Ignore all that and the inevitable shithole state we are going to be in 20-30 years. Modern society is perfect, nobody is allowed to think about alternative systems.
>In my society everyone will help everyone else. You cannot say that will not happen as it is true by definition of my society.
Strawman argument.
>Labor unions oppose anything that hurts them even if it will help other workers.
This is because in Capitalism Unions are competitive, in Socialism, why would they be competitive with eachother? Why would you care about automation when essentially basic income exists?
Because Capitalism forces everyone into antagonistic relationships with each other, doesn't mean we can't build another society that doesn't do that. FFS Feudalism was based on everyone sucking the dick of the church and the idea of "Divine Right of Kings", that was only 250 years ago (and people were perfectly willing to throw their life away for the king until after WW1) Capitalism is not some natural order of things. Your great great grandparents didn't live in Capitalism.
>>1309533
Give this guy a fucking medal
What happened with Syndicalism?
>>1308583
>a form of socialism
No
>>1308583
It requires a certain amount of class consciousness which seems like it's not gonna happen for a while at least
It's too obscure for most people to understand and it's not close enough to what they're doing now so it must be spooky and bad
>tfw grandpa was a syndicalist nationalist who was a chairman in unions.
Wish I met him so he could tell me about his ideas. RIP
>>1309503
>As soon as we create singularity tier AI
Top fucking kek mate
>>1308583
>It is "a system of economic organization in which industries are owned and managed by the workers".[1]
I'll take worker federations and cooperatives for 500$, Alex.
This shit already exists within capitalism. I don't understand why you retards feel you have to dismantle the concept of private property, just because you do not want to have a capitalist as your boss.
If you don't want a capitalist as your boss, start a business modeled on other principles instead then, instead of wanting to destroy society just because you're a bourgeois romantic.
>>1308583
I read to
>a form of socialism
Before I realized it won't work and can't be implemented
National Syndicalism son
>>1308583
>For adherents, labour unions and labour training (see below) are the potential means of both overcoming economic aristocracy and running society fairly and in the interest of informed and skilled majorities, through union democracy. Industry in a syndicalist system would be run through co-operative confederations and mutual aid.
Holy lol, you have to be so ignorant of economics to endorse this.
Embarrassing.
Let me guess, history major? inb4 you just "happen" to be double majoring in economics and math
>>1308812
>Labor Unions
>Oppose anything that hurts them
Try not to use absolutes anon. One example for recent American politics; The Coal Miners Union supported Barrack Obama in 2008 & 2012, when Obama asked the EPA to push new regulations on coal and oil mining it killed the coal industry in West Virginia and Kentucky.
Unions try to support their workers but once extremely large (See: Teamsters, Iron Workers of America, Restaurant Owners Union, Ect) this get muddy. Teachers union was originally established to help support the education of the youth, now it's supporting administrators instead of youth education and teachers.
>>1311116
>>1311170
>Form of socialism
>National Syndicalism
>>1308583
No. It's basically democratic management, which is woefully inefficient.
It's acceptable at the national level because size and lessened international competition make the waste affordable and indeed better than relying on riskier systems, but it you can't afford it at lower, quicker paced, more technical levels where competition is stiffer.
>>1311305
Then explain this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
It's not inefficient at all, it's just that it has to exist within a framework of a market system to function at all.
>>1311349
>it's just that it has to exist within a framework of a market system to function at all
Then it's not syndacalism anymore. It's just independent cooperatives.
>>1308583
>socialism
To the trash.
>>1311355
>Then it's not syndacalism anymore
It has all the functions of syndicalism except private property isn't abolished. Which is the one thing that syndicalism can't do, because then society will degenerate into the USSR.
>>1311367
As long as it requires to unload disadvantages on external parties, there's nothing syndacalist about it. It's basically just a stock company where sale of stock is strictly regulated.
>>1308583
Anyone who has ever had to go near union leaders knows that syndicalism would never work.
Union leaders are like spoiled children.
>>1311375
>As long as it requires to unload disadvantages on external parties
What the fuck does this mean? Elaborate.
Why are letypol shills so cringy?
sounds a bit like medieval guild system.
>>1309451
/his/ retardation in a nutshell.
>>1308583
what do you do to (ordinary) people who don't want syndicalism
I am from Argentina, the fatherland of syndicalism and I can tell you no,and with no I mean hell no. It's the most corrupt system ever developed,giving the worker the illusion of right and benefit. It's a wonderful idea yes,like communism,on paper, but in reality is just a scam.
>Syndicalism
That kinda sounds like a system built upon guilds.
It only generates mafias that fight against "oppression" which is just really asking them to do their damm job.
t.Mexican who has to deal with socialist stupidity every day.
>central planning
>>1308787
>Neoliberalism
BOGEYMAN
>>1309503
>Markets
>Inherently shit
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>1312379
Where the fuck do you see central planning in Syndicalism?
>>1311450
>syndicalism shills
That's a clean oymoron.
>>1311266
>even in Cuba they pay doctors like 3x more than the average government worker.
Financial incentives attract people to jobs. I'm not contesting that. If you can show me that increasing financial incentives for a specific job increases productivity for that job, I'll believe you and change my opinion.
>>1311814
>your argument is retarded
Nice retort, you brought me round.
>>1308812
NAFTA has had horrendous effects on Mexico and it's workers you absolute autist.
>>1313154
NAFTA has had significant beneficial effects on Mexico and it's workers you absolute autist.
>>1313154
Zurdo plz
>>1313101
>No reponses to this
As expected.
>>1309467
A labor voucher system would be far superior to the chaotic market system we currently have, it would be similar enough on the surface for people used to a capitalist economy to transition into but lack any of the exploitation and turbulence we have now.
>>1309533
>No-one replying to this post.
Why is everyone so eager to spout their own opinion than have a debate?
>>1308583
People are not equal, so giving enough power to these guilds so that people would be treated equal doesn't allow for competition or proper incentives to work.
