Was the enlightenment a mistake?
>>1305011
Yes.
I don't think SJWs would exist if the enlightenment never happened.
>>1305013
lel, what a narrow conception of history
it allowed Europe to conquer the world
how could it be a mistake
>>1305013
What do you think Voltaire, Locke, and other early liberal theorists would think of modern SJWs?
the """"""""""""""""""""enlightenment"""""""""""""""""
>>1305011
Yes, big time. We've been going downhill culturally/spiritually since.
>>1305019
Good start to such a thread, my lad.
>>1305029
I think they [liberal theorists] would've liked their ideas and I think, unfortunately, they [liberal theorists] would've succumbed to their faggotry.
>>1305029
they would realize they were wrong to assume the masses are just as intelligent as they are and could handle the freedom given to them
>>1305011
>t. butthurt romanticists
we brought Beethoven, Hobbes, Bacon, Newton, and Napoleon
what did you contribute?
>>1305049
>we
>>1305057
And I'm sure with your lack of epistemological standards you personally take credit for all romantic philosophy.
>>1305064
You are surely wrong m'good gentlesir!
>>1305011
yes
t.Moldbug
>>1305039
>Implying the slow death of Christianity in Europe was not a good thing
>>1305033
>>1305013
>>1305084
The only reason why you fucking idiots are allowed to disagree with the status quo is because of enlightenment philosophers such as Voltair who championed things such as the right to free speach. Seriously you guys are embarreslingly ignorant...
>>1305111
yeah, voltaire championed the right to free speech, and you are championing the right to horribly written speech
>>1305111
There are multiple spelling errors in your post.
>>1305111
Voltaire championed the right to strawman and make shit up
>>1305126
Vous es en colère?
>>1305111
>the only reason why you're allowed to disagree is because contrarian faggots like us rose up against the status quo and now we can share our faggoty opinions with you
Son, I don't think you realize, but some of us agree with the status quo.
>>1305111
voltaire was an euphoric dupe.
your modern liberal rights were secured by a very long british tradition towards legitimate representation and political rights
The french/continental europeans took that tradition and butchered it into some proto-pseudo-quasi religious movement that degenerated into that wondrous example of barbarism that was the french revolution
Since then, it has been a constant shitfest
It didn't go far enough.
>>1305111
>Voltair who championed things such as the right to free speach.
didnt he blow the whistle on Rousseau and asked for his books to be burned?
>>1305111
Voltaire was a Banksy tier thinker, a shit writer and a laughable phony. For all his rebellious talk, he literally lived at Frederick of Prussia's palace, where he just hanged around being little more than a pet. Look it up.
Open, rational philosophical debate had been going on in the universities since the middle ages, for literally centuries before the pretentious "enlightened" fedora faggots ever showed up. The same goes with science, parliaments and the concept of natural human rights. The Enlightenment fedoras didn't invent anything new, they just claimed they did and then proceeded to circle jerk each other in their little echo chamber.
Also Rousseau was a major cunt and the world would be much better off if he had drowned as a child.
>>1305011
Overall, no.
One of the poor features of the Enlightenment was its over-optimism and naivety regarding natural laws and basically the scientific study of anything, mostly in terms of social systems. People thought the laws of society and human behavior were akin to the laws of physics, and this lead to over-optimism in regard to our ability to arrange society willy-nilly to achieve utopia, leading to garbage like socialism. Hayek had to come along and give us a good slap on the face.
Otherwise, the Enlightenment lead to great progress.
Todos os filósofos iluministas eram um bando de cínicos, ironicões de merda que odiavam os papais e avós por ter-lhes obrigado a ir à missa, e descobriram sua identidade postiça no grupinho dos amigos que conspiravam contra a realidade que permeia a vida das pessoas simples. É um ódio mortal à simplicidade humana, o exato oposto do cristianismo, mas ao mesmo tempo diziam carregar as dores do povo contra a nobreza e a elite (que na verdade eram eles mesmos), criando essa falsidade patente e inversão de discursos que existe até hoje. Não dá pra calcular a quantidade de terror que esses imbecis causaram, mas nada disso os atingiu, eles não levaram um arranhão enquanto as mesmas pessoas simples que eles diziam proteger foram mais tarde mortas umas pelas outras por causa das ideias megalomaníacas e no fundo estúpidas deles.
A vontade adolescente de autonomia humana é uma ilusão, e sempre será uma ilusão. A Igreja Católica não cansa de pregar essa verdade patente que as pessoas nunca param de esquecer: liberdade de verdade, só em Deus. Não adianta criar sua seita esotérica gnóstica e dizer que vai salvar a humanidade, você vai se tornar seu maior inimigo.
I don't give a damn if you can't read this, translate it if you wish.
>>1305524
I've read it. I would subscribe to your blog.
The enlightenment is the only reason that western civilization matters.
>>1305151
The english had their own version of the French revolution in the 1600's lmao
I am Catholic. Of course I think the Enlightenment was a mistake. The last six hundred years have largely been a mistake.
>>1306162
>the Glorious Revolution was an equivalent of the French Revolution
What the fuck are you doing on a history board
>>1305049
German Idealism and Nationalism.
>>1306298
I think he's talking about the civil war.
Which was nothing like the French revolution either.
>>1305111
>free speech is good
Nice meme. The only reason you think it's good is because you were told it's good since you were born
>>1306531
Those also both only emerged in the wake of the enlightenment, nationalism in particular being an extremely enlightenment era ideal.
Not to mention it's also shit and the world would probably be better off without it.
>>1306542
I for one think it's good since I get to not go to jail for being edgy on the internet.
> muh sjw
Oppressed groups were always against whatever bullshit reason here for an oppression. No matter before enlightenment or even after it.
The de-Christianisation of France was a direct consequence of a century of scepticism and relativism. Voltaire's Philosophical Dictionary, published in 1764, was attacked, banned and read avidly across Europe.He ruthlessly exposes the historical implausibility of the gospels. Why, he wonders, does the ancient Jewish historian Josephus fail to mention so important an event as the life of Christ? Why, in his comprehensive account of the cruelties of Herod, does Josephus omit the Massacre of the Innocents?
Gibbon subjects Christianity to a similarly withering historical critique in his Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (1776-88).
. "The acquisition of knowledge, the exercise of our reason or fancy, and the cheerful flow of unguarded conversation may employ the leisure of a liberal mind. Such amusements, however, were rejected with abhorrence or admitted with the utmost caution by the severity of the church fathers..."
>>1305524
le im a nationalist so i talk in my language on a english-speaking forum meme
Then he speaks on english.
KYS SENPAI BAKA DESU
>>1306557
Well I see people crying over some soccer mom who started yoga classes and other silly shit.
Whatever you call them, they aren't fighting oppression and they are a product of the enlightenment.
>>1305011
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayhELTzYETI
>>1306599
> I see people crying over some soccer mom who started yoga classes
People crying about silly shit all of the time in the middle ages, especially about a woman engaging in strange spiritual practices. Its in human nature.
>>1306547
t. Globalist cuck
>>1306617
> I prefer to live in my micronation
tips provincial flag
>>1306614
>Implying witchcraft was just silly innocent spiritual practises
>Implying witches weren't responsible for the black death
>Implying witches never abducted christian children for sacrifices
>Implying summoning demons to have orgies with is acceptable behavior
>Implying that witch trials weren't a necessary response to a real danger to medieval communities
>She wuz a good girl, she just spiritual, she dindu nuffin
WIDF PLZ GO
>>1306542
Do you have opinions? Do you like expressing them? What if i were to say you weren't allowed to have them?
>>1306647
Nice try Beatrice, but we all know that witches doesn't exist.
>>1305138
So you agree with government and society on literally everything? None of your opinions differ from the people in charge? Bullshit.
>>1306649
>Good Muggle, magic is just fairy tales, now drink this pot-I mean herbal tea, you'll feel much better
*rubs broomstick*
>>1305426
>Rational Philosophical debate had been going on in the universitis since the middle ages
Cringey lies you telling everyone there, anon, I suppose no one was ever burnt to death for their beliefs by the church/government ever? So if i started spouting Dawkins tier edgy arguments in Oxford in the 12th century i wouldn't get kicked out? I wouldn't get killed? fuck off.
>>1305027
>it allowed Europe to conquer the world
It is not like they were alredy doing it for 300 years
>>1306651
>So you agree with government and society on literally everything?
Why wouldn't I? They are smart people who know what is best for me.
>>1306656
Ths happens in academia currently m8.People can say things like homosexuality is bad,they almost removed a PhD to Hoppe for implying it, and saying that race is a thing and affects overall results, would end a person careers, in any field, even physics.Stop being a dumbass, cencorship is strong in western universities currently
>>1306663
>can
can't
>>1306658
OK, so if you're country (presuming it's a member of NATO for the sake of argument) was trying to start a war with Russia and China you'd support them? Even if it would inevitably end with a nuclear holocaust?
What if you're government wanted to, in order to save money to give every member of parliamen a manshion, switch to coal power you'd support them? even if that would fuck up everybody's lungs with bronchitis and other respiratory diseases.
Would you have supported your country's deicion to invade Iraq?
>>1306663
I couldn't find that example with Hoppe but i'll take your word for it. You're right there is no free speech for things like that in acedemia, however you are still allowed to say it, which is much better than what happened in hte middle ages. Seriously if that was you that was moronic.
>>1306681
Losing a PhD because a student was offended,because Hoppe implied that homosexuals were less likely so save than heterosexuals,says a lot about the free speech that we currently have in academia.The punishments are proportional to our currrent laws m8.And in the mifddle ages each university had its own laws,so generalizing like you are doing it right now is pretty dumb
>>1305011
Of course it wasn't. What a stupid question.
>>1306531
in other words the enlightenment built up Europe and Romanticism destroyed it
good to know
>>1306657
only a place in the ass-side of the world already destroyed by small-pox
enlightenment took out everything else
>racial equality
>women's rights
>"all men are born equal"
>democracy
as a white male born to a fortunate family, i say yes, it was.
>racial equality
>women's rights
>"all men are born equal"
>democracy
as a black gay living in brooklyn i say no, it wasn't.
>>1305524
Haha bög
>>1305524
"All enlightment philosophers were a bunch of ironic, shithead cynicals that hated daddy and mommy for having made them go to the church, and finding out about their identity with the group of their junior school friends that conspired against the reality that made the life of simple people be sad. It was a dreadful hatred against the human simplicity, the exact opposite of Christianty, and at the same time they would say to embrace the pain of the people against the nobility and the elites (that in fact were themselves), creating this hipocrisy and the inversion of speech roles that we can still see to this day. You just can't calculate the amount of terror these imbeciles have caused, but nothing of that affected them, they weren't even scratched when the same simple people that they said to protect were later on killed one after the other because of their megolovaniac and, deep inside, stupid, ideas.
The teenage desire for automony is an illusion, and will always be an illusion. The Catholic Church never quits to try the truth that people always forget: true freedom lies within nothing but God. You can't create your own little gnostic circle of friends and say you'll save humanity, for you yourself will turn into your biggest enemy."
So said anonymous.
