After 1945, could the Cold War have been avoided?
>>1302997
No. The Imperialists could not stand to see peaceful and free Communist countries and wanted to destroy them.
If Russia gave up Europe, yes.
Didn´t Stalin try to leave Germany alone and non-aligned but the allies refused?
>>1302997
I honestly don't think so. No way in hell the russians would have allowed eastern europe to turn into anything other then socialist puppet states. The americans on the other hand also wouldn't have stopped the creation of a Western alliance. Both core players were ideologically driven and had a deep seated mistrust for each other that only genocidal fascists could stop for a few years. What was entirely possible though would have been a less intense conflict if the doves in Washington and moscow would have won earlier and more political conflicts.
>>1302997
Yes, they could have let the USSR into NATO, when they asked to join in 54.
>>1303032
>not trusting stalin
What were they thinking?
>>1302997
Yes if we listened to Patton
>>1303274
I'd never heard about this at all so I googled it, pretty interesting stuff.
That said, while I was reading it I saw this, and unless I'm misunderstanding it it makes a lot of sense that the US wouldn't want to kneecap themselves in the treaty organization.
>Molotov's collective security proposal was rejected by western representatives on two grounds. Firstly, because the United States was excluded from the proposed treaty and relegated, together with Communist China, to observer status. Secondly, because the Soviet proposal aimed, it was said, to disrupt NATO as well as halt the formation of the EDC. Molotov responded to these criticisms by saying that the Soviet proposal could be amended and that he was open to persuasion about the value of NATO as a defensive organization."
If we would of saved 1 or 2 nukes for Russia we wouldn't have had a Cold War
Sure. Launch Unthinkable when Germany crumples.
>>1303274
Not under those terms
>>1303365
Would it have worked?
>>1304240
In the sense that it replaces the Cold War with a shooting war? Yes.
It probably would be a worse outcome for all concerned, of course.
>>1303365
What would motivate the Allies to fight the commies? Everyone just wanted the war to be over.
>>1305218
Perceived weakness on the USSR. The main reason Unthinkable got scrapped to begin with was the realization that the Soviets had the upper hand in any initial clash in the spring/summer of 45, and that initial gains wouldn't be forthcoming.
If the Western Allies are stronger vis a vis the Soviets, or at least think they are, it's eminently possible, especially as the two biggest backers have the two most relatively untouched war economies.
>>1305226
I'm not even talking about the countries themselves. I am talking about the people, the soldiers.
>spend four years fighting krauts or japs just to get killed by commies
>>1305239
Sure, there'd be some grumbling, but morale (at least in the Anglo-American contingent of the western Allies) wasn't at such a nadir that you'd see widespread desertation or revolt. Especially if things are in fact going well in the new war.
>spend four years fighting krauts or japs just to get killed by commies
If we're talking individual rank and file soldiers, you didn't have that. You'd get rotated out way before you had 4 years of fighting, and then either go into some sort of training or bureaucratic position. You wouldn't have people so ragged on the front lines.
>>1305262
I just meant four years as the whole fighting force in general.
>>1305267
The "fighting force" is an institution, not an individual soldier who can and might go against the wishes of the government that directs it. "The military" as an abstraction isn't going to call it quits because they've been at war for 4-6 years. Again, a soldier might. A lot of soldiers might if things get that bad. But the Pentagon? Hell no. Especially not if they're winning.
>>1305277
I just don't see countries wanting to continue the bloodshed after just finishing a world war. It would just create a third world war.
>>1303302
You serious?
>>1305315
I can, but only if you alter historical circumstances as to how the ground map looks in 1945. There were quite a few cracks in the alliance, even after Yalta, and the USSR and the west were only allies of convenience. Given a relatively fast and cheap way of kicking the Russians out of Europe, I'm pretty sure Truman and definitely Churchill would have gone for it.
Such did not historically exist, which is how we got the cold war, but if they did.... why not fight WW3 now, when you have an advantage rather than have the sword of damocles hanging over your neck for who knows how long?
The cold war nothing more than a show aside from the time when JFK was president. You are an idiot if you fall for Jewish lies.
>>1305337
Unthinkable included an opening atomic bombing of Moscow and the rearmament of the german army, iirc. It was perfectly possible to pull it off, but it was just too risky and the potential payoff too low.
>>1305387
As far as I'm aware, there was no usage of atomic weapons slated for Unthinkable, but I hardly pretend to be an expert in the planning.
And while yes, there were plans to re-arm units from the Wehrmacht, it was thougth they'd only get about 300,000 soldiers out of it, compared to the 1.5 million already on the front line and more pushed in behind them.
The death knell was the projection that after some initial gains due to surprise, the Soviets would turn around and start mauling the Anglo-Allied forces, what with the near 4:1 numerical superiority, although less than that in terms of firepower disparity, more like 2:1 favoring the Soviets.
Tilt that balance to something resembling even, and you now have a very different picture of Unthinkable.
It wasn't really the payoff that was considered the problem, it was the risk, and if you can reduce that risk.......
>>1302997
>Stalin upholds his end of the percentages agreement
>Cold War never happens
It's literally that easy.
Instead, what happened was:
>Stalin says "Fuck you, it's all mine"
>except Greece, no one wants that shithole
