What happened to Portugal ? They seemed to the one that had the biggest fall from grace compared to the other Western European empires.
They seem worse off these days than their neighbors in almost all aspects.
How it happen ?To a country who ruled the sea (from what I read) and caused so much chaos to non-Europeans?
Bumping with this ridiculous battle.
>>1288311
They fell into the "oldest alliance" meme and were betrayed by the Eternal Anglo.
>>1288311
The idea of a "Portuguese empire" is a myth.
The entirety of Portuguese success was caused by Brazil, which they only got by a stroke of pure luck (also known as Spanish being retarded). After they lost glorious Brazil there was simply nothing of value in their entire empire, including in the European part.
>>1288313
Ah, yes the Cooshy Kingdom. Great sailors those were. Not one lick afraid of a wet struggle. Yeah, seemed the slipperier the deck got, the stronger they held. When Calicut took to the poop deck by surprise, they held tight.
>>1288353
>Sad spaniard detected
How about the entirety of Spain's success was in Mexico?!
See how stupid you sound now?
>>1288419
>spaniard
He's clearly a hue ape.
>>1288419
> Acting like Spain didn't control Europe
>>1288311
Most of Portugal's empire was really more in the nature of fortified enclaves and trade concessions around the Indian Ocean and into the China Sea.
By the late 17th-early 18th centuries, other European powers, especially Britain, France, and the Netherlands, were horning in on their formerly protected markets, and a lot of the Portuguese advantage faded almost overnight.
>>1288419
Spain was formidable in its own right. Portugal was not. Simple stuff
Lack of population to actually settle fully into the lands they owned. Having just a few port towns scattered along Africa and Asia weren't enough to keep control of the trade routes once other European powers started moving in, and then one of the princes of Portugal decided he'd rather have his own kingdom and took Brazil and declared independence. He's a hero in Brazil, obviously, but he was really just an overambitious prince who wanted to declare himself emperor. Also the Eternal Anglo.
>>1288311
They cucked themselfs in Morocco
>>1288311
>They seem worse off these days than their neighbors in almost all aspects.
They ARE worse off these days than their neighbors in almost all aspects.
>>1288311
The Regicide, 25 de Abril and then the European Union ruined Portugal.
>>1288504
This. Controlling some factories along western Africa and India is not the same as controlling and ruling vast territories just like the british, the french and the spanish did.
And also I'm looking at you, Netherlands.
>>1289894
25 de Abril I can understand, but what did the EU do to you?
>>1288419
>Spain is still successful
>Portugal is literally African.
Need I say more?
>>1289916
EU forced us to cut down our production of wine, fruit, fish, (and goods that i can't translate), because of the quality of our products,EU also controls any Portuguese major decision, Troika, and the money they gave us was wasted on roads, cars and useless stuff, (instead of being used on industrys etc)
>>1289923
The last time there was some faggot who argued that EU was a free-market economy. I'd like him/her to read this.
>>1289931
ah yes also the free market economy, if we weren't in EU right now, we'd be making so much money from exports and from turism. Now we import more than export
>>1289923
Blame your government for wasting the EU money on useless stuff. That sounds like the Greeks buying their new submarines with the German loan.
Where the production of goods is concerned I always tend to take anti EU arguments with a grain of salt. Milk production will have to go down for example because of overproduction causing low prices, which means producers also complain. Overuse of sea ressources is killing the fishing industry that lobbies so hard against sustainable fishing. It is unfortunate that countries like Portugal get the short end of the stick, but the situation could be even worse were the EU not there.
>>1289955
i agree with you on the overuse of sea and blaming my government for the waste of EU money (which i do) But for example, our wine and cotton production didn't need to get cut down.
>>1288311
Well
They were one of the poorest colonial powers, had habsburg next door and only England as permanent ally. Essentially they didn't have the logistic and economical underpinnings to maintain their empire.
If it wasn't for Anglo's there might have never been a Portugal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1383%E2%80%9385_Portuguese_Interregnum
>>1288311
Fucking spaniards and anglos happened, that's what.
t. Alberto
>>1289916
Ignore him, whithout the EU this would be a 3rd world country.
>>1289971
That's indeed the case of non perishable goods which makes it quite odd. However one must consider China recently laid off several thousand workers in the steel industry to counter the price drops. A price drop in cotton prices would have caused discontent too for the entire industry. If it happened for other reasons than overproduction, it would be suspicious, and if there is one thing wrong in the EU it is lobbying. Wouldn't surprise me the French or the Italian wine producers lobbied for a cut in wine production that would benefit them in some way.
>>1290036
yes but our cotton and wine industry was never big, it was already small and they made it smaller
>>1290054
Well it is odd indeed.
As a Portuguese I hate these threads.
Fuck.
This country has given me PTSD to the point when I travel I say I'm from another country because I look bland as fuck lookwise.
Incompetent fools.
;_;
>>1288311
They etablished the first overseas caliphate in the world - t. Alberto Barbosa
>>1290036
What would the world look like if we didnt push artificial scarcity. I feel like our economy becomes an anachronism. We can produce so much that we can literally throw it away but ee gotta pretend its scarce so the producers can earn money and pay taxes to our crook politicians.
>inb4 commie
I'm really not. But something new has to come.
>>1288353
>The entirety of Portuguese success was caused by Brazil
what?
brazil was completely irrelevant until the 18th century. By then, Portugal was already in decline
How much did that earthquake contribute to Portugals's decline?
What about the crazy king that attacked the moors alone? What was his name again, Sebastião?
>>1290359
>This country has given me PTSD
Imagine how Poles must feel.
>>1290359
PTSD? How?
>>1288311
>Western European
Portugal is 100% Aftican.
>>1290760
I think if you visit Portugal, then visit Africa you might change your mind.
Portugal never profitted much from it's Indian trade, because even as they conquered outposts such as Aden, Ormuz and Malacca, the traders just bypassed them going to new ports. Portugal tried to take over the Indian Ocean trade, but it was just too big for them to grasp.
The Dutch were more successful because they discovered a sea route that went directly from the Cape of Good Hope to Java and the Spice Islands, so they could cut out all intermediaries and just buy spice directly at it's source to sell at Europe. Portugal couldn't do that, since it had to deal with Muslim and Hindu merchants all the time.
>>1291490
>implying you didn't steal the spice islands from us
nice try, Jaan
Doesnt even come close to this garbage peninsula. How do you even go from Rome to this... they were supposed to be the chosen ones.
>>1293537
>>1291490
Why did all those ships go to svalbard?
>>1293537
Italy is pretty successful senpai, one of the richest economies on earth
>>1293547
Whalers. There used to be semipermanent Dutch whaling outposts on Spitsburgen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smeerenburg
>>1293537
>>1293538
did you post the wrong flag or something?
>>1288311
they got BTFO by morocco and become irrelevant since then
>>1293563
>>1293733
Zero glory in Italy's history since the fall of Rome. It had a couple of nice individuals. But nothing else. At least Portugal was enormous in the age of discovery, and they had a huge empire up into the 20th century. Italy has absolutely faced more self inflicted humiliation than Portugal.
We wanted too much when we could hold too little.
Still okay,we have a nice history hell oldest alliance,and oldest frontiers.
