Who are the descendants of the Ancient Greeks?
Modern Greeks
>>1288004
Modern Greeks and western Anatolians.
Modern day Greeks and southern Italians.
>>1288018
>western Anatolians
Modern Greeks
GIDF is out in full force.
>>1288077
>T.butthurt Nordic
They all up and went to Scandinavia in one large mass (nobody was left behind) and then went back down to form Germany. This is backed up by serious scientific research like my neighbor Sven comparing his jawline to that of an Ancient Greek statue.
19th century Germans were clearly the spiritual heirs and the last to bear the torch of Hellenism, seeing as the likes of Goethe, Nietzsche and Hölderlin were praising the blessed gods while the Greeks were immersed in Abrahamic darkness.
>>1288004
Macedonians
>>1288129
Oh no you didn't.
>>1288128
Hellenism died in late antiquity, deal with it.
Mediterranean people
>>1289206
I can't deal, I mourn everyday.
>>1289206
I wonder who was behind this, something something ban philosophical schools.
The descendant of every ancient civilized people
white people were just uhh...somewhere else, idk
>>1289230
They're Hittites and Greeks and the like.
Dacians, Thracians, Illyrians, Greeks, Anatolians were all likely related in the same way Germans, Norweigan, Dutch etc etc are
>>1288104
other way around actually, there was a migration from northern europe to ancient greece in the bronze age
>>1289573
Really?
I know there was one from Central Europe with the Dorians.
>>1288004
The Turks
muh equality liberalism democracy?
>genetically, modern greeks
the important stuff?
>spiritually, the USA. global western domination is so complete at this point that without a historical sense you can't even recognise that fact.
>>1289579
Its a hypothesis, the material culture of the nordic bronze age is pretty similar to the greek bronze age and the illiad describes places and weather that match the baltic. And the characters are described as wearing northern european clothing like heavy cloaks secured with brooches
Minoan haplogroups are northern european:
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-22527821
Athens was depopulated into a town of 300 people, they all moved to where the work was like Istanbul and greek colonies like Crimea
>>1289617
Linear A and Linear B are so drastically divergent coupled with multiple minoan destroyed buildings over time its little doubt they were invaded, I just always thought it was from the east
>>1289640
i mean its universally accepted it came from greek mainland
>>1288129
hahahahhahaha
>>1288004
greek islanders, some greek mainlanders and some western turks
>>1288004
Modern Jews.
>>1288004
Modern Greeks
Whoever thinks otherwise is a dumb butthurt kraut or a turk
Bulgarians
No one. Ancient Greeks died out.
>>1288004
the turks
>>1289808
>>1289812
how about you prove it dipshit?
how did they "die out"?
Modern Greeks
>ITT: Most people stating the obvious
And I was just about to leave this crappy board
Thanks for making me stick around
>>1289582
This post gave me terminal cancer.
They were always Hellenized Turco-Albanians.
>>1289617
Bit of a stretch, the Illiad also describes places and weather matching northwestern Anatolia, not to mention Hittite like practices on part of the Trojans
>>1288004
Norwegians, Lithuanians, novgorodians/muscovites are the closest living peoples
>>1289617
There is a strong Nordic element in modern Greece. Don't be fooled, I saw many blond children and many swarthy men with blue eyes. Many, many swarthy men with blue eyes. And most young women were elegant and fair-skinned.
t. Somone who just got back from Greece and who paid close attention while there
>>1288004
modern Greeks obviously
http://dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/hellenes/
>>1290520
>>1290520
>Blue eyes and fair skin are "Nordic"
>>1288004
Why are this kind of threads so common here?
It's litterally /pol/ tier stupidity, kill yourself.
>>1289816
i think he was implying that they the greeks were so gay they didn't reproduce enough to perpetuate themselves
>>1288038
>Oriental cockroach
We're talking about Turks, not Chinks. Get your roach species right.
>>1288129
Here I found a group that might be more your speed
https://steamcommunity.com/groups/AlexanderTheGreat
>>1288004
Albanians and Austrians
Half of hungarians
>>1289816
Can you find me one?
>>1288004
western civilization or any society that uses ancient/classical greek values, innovations, philosophy/science, math and discoveries as their foundations.
kind of corny but arguable.
who would for example argue that they are the rightful heirs and no one else to domestication of plants and animals?
>>1290666
>Austrians
What...
>>1290710
Habsburghs allowed greeks in after they bought the title of the Byzantine empire and they mixed. Southern austria at the time was a wierd race mix of slavs, austrians, and hungarians.
The true hier to Byzantium was austria-hungary
t. Austrian with a Germanized Hellenic last name
>>1290520
Blue eye's aren't exclusively nordic its also a mediterranean trait. Mediterranean skin is olive but it can be fair or swarthy
>Implying people like spartans weren't foreigners to begin with
>>1290520
About 75% of Greeks have dark eyes. The remaining 25% are split between light and medium colors.
For hair it's closer to 60% dark and 20% light / 20% medium.
>>1288004
modern greeks
non-ancient greeks
>>1289230
But if they're not the original Turks, then who turkified them?
>>1290814
>the true heir to Byzantium
To Rome you mean. They managed to essentially merge the Western and Eastern claims together.
>>1291574
mongols from the east interbred with anatolians -> ottomans / turks
>>1288004
You, gentle reader.
>>1288104
Stop playing Rome total war
>>1288016
/thread
>>1288004
Modern Greeks, Italians and North Africans.
>>1291231
The Nordid phenotype is the Mediterranid phenotype depigmented.
>>1290710
Illyrians
The Pashtun
>>1290604
History and HUMANITY
>>>>tumblr
western turks and modern greeks
>>1294140
/thread
Whities killed off all the original greeks n romans. You see the first romans was ruled by kings who was black. Tarquinius superbus the last black king of rome was overthrown by the whiteys who ruled rome for a couple of centuries. Until sulla the great black general overthrew the whiteys and exterminated them in the social war. Now blacks was running rome again and a whitey wasnt seen in the region again until it was sacked by alaric and the whiteys eventually killed or sent the black romans to africa. Julius caesar was black.
>>1288016
/thread
>>1288129
No kill yourself slav
>>1288004
Greeks and Turks from Asia Minor.
inb4 Greeks are turkified: no, it's Turks who were assimilated by Greeks. Turkic people are supposed to look Asian like pic related.
>>1288016
pretty much
a bit Kebab'd but still Greek
I'm half Sicilian. Can I claim ancient Greek heritage?
>>1290520
Homer refers to the 'blonde' Achilles, and blue eyes aren't really a genetic factor that should be taken into account when talking about ethnology due to the fact that it's a recessive trait.
>>1291249
Ancient Greeks actually identified themselves as such (after a certain point) and Spartans were Dorians, one of the ethnic groups that made up Hellenes so no, they are practically not foreigners.
>>1288004
Modern Greeks aren't 100% direct descendants, they have been mixed with Italians, Slavs, Turks etc. but the highest concentration of "ancient Greek DNA" would be found in Modern Greece making them the most eligible candidate for op's question.
>>1290583
We wuz greek n' shiiet
>>1294689
Probably. You can probably also claim Arabian, Norman and Roman heritage.
>>1294958
>blue eyes aren't really a genetic factor that should be taken into account when talking about ethnology due to the fact that it's a recessive trait.
finland is like at least 90% blue eyed
>>1295521
Just because a population displays a a lot of a certain feature doesn't mean it's a dominant trait.
>>1288129
Are they actually Hellenic or truly just Slavs with a weird complex? No meme responses please.
>>1288016
Yes and no, the vast majority of macedone was enslaved and displaced by the romans after the macedonian-roman war and the land was settled with roman soldiers who were given farmland.
Then bulgarians and vlachs who basically invaded peleponessos and northern greece. Greeks are so hopelessly mutted up it's hard to say.
>>1296441
not that much really, even south slavs still hold mostly native balkan genetic heritage.
Native populations usually stay same with invaders forcing their own cultures, just look at turkey
>greece disappears in antiquity
>greece appears 19 century
>it's the same people
yeah, doesn't work like that.
you have to have a continuous ethnic identity preserved through the whole period, which you don't
>>1295017
>Arab
>Norman
They only ever made up the elite class and didn't really make a dent into the Island's genetics. I'd say Sicilians are mostly the original Italic peoples plus Greek and some Phoenician.
>>1296520
>ethnicity is defined by the polity in power
Greeks lived around the Aegean sea from antiquity until now
>>1296546
>Greeks lived around the Aegean sea from antiquity until now
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
>>1296520
>greece disappears in antiquity
What date did Greece "disappear" exactly?
>>1296564
3 generations after romans conquered it
they had no national identity, after the city states fell apart it was over
all that remained was people speaking greek, and as you know language != national identity
>>1296571
They thought themselves Roman yeah, and I would agree that Modern Greece is culturally divorced from ancient Greece, just as Italy is with Rome, but when most people ask this question they're talking about genetics. Unless you're going to whip out the epic turk maymays Greece has not changed very much at all in terms of ethnicity.
>>1296551
sweet rebuttal bub
True greeks were nordic, read madison grant and arthur kemp.
>>1289230
>Turks are basically ethnically greeks and armenians who were turkified
t.Stelio Kontos
>>1296585
agreed
the area south of thessaly probably didn't change much in terms of genetics
but everything else is a genetic mishmash
>>1296640
Except that Bulgaria, FYROM, Albania and Greece all seem to retain ancient (pre-Slavic) genetics for the most part.
Just because Greek national identity changed doesn't mean that Greeks ceased to exist. Comparatively few Romans moved to Greece, and Greeks became prominent Roman citizens quickly after the were integrated into the Republic.
Whats more, Greece (or the Greek people) have never had a unified national identity until they became part of Rome and eventually identified as Roman.
Every region with Greeks had a different approach to identity politics and they diverged considerably over time from one another until the 2nd century BC.
>>1296629
Technically Turks are closer to Armenians and Syrians than Greeks except for the the west.
But since all the languages and cultures native to Anatolia were replaced by Greek and Armenian for over 1000 years, yes, modern Turks are historically just Turkified Greeks and Armenians.
>>1296542
The Phoenicians are similar to Arabs since they originate from the Levent.
>>1296751
>Just because Greek national identity changed doesn't mean that Greeks ceased to exist.
That's EXACTLY what it means.
Or are you telling me thracians still exist?
Afaik Bulgarians don't consider themselves both Thracian AND Bulgarian. If Bulgarians changed the name of the country to Thrace it would be complete and utter bullshit. Ethnic identity isn't determined by genetics.
This argument is pointless because Greece will never rename itself to Roman republic, which I'd be a fan of honestly.
>>1296797
>That's EXACTLY what it means.
Maybe you're intentionally retarded, I don't know, but Greece and the Greek people never had a unified Greek identity. The closest they got in antiquity was agreeing that cities mentioned in the Iliad were Greek and cities visited by Heracles were Greek and cities established by Greeks are also Greek.
Macedonia was by all rights Greek, but Philip actually had to wage a war to compete in the Olympics because Pella didn't meet the criteria for being 'Greek'.
Greek's had continuity of religion until the 4th-6th centuries AD. Then their new religion became inextricably linked to their linguistic and cultural identities and they still have that religion.
They have linguistic continuity obviously, and Greek is the oldest attest living language behind liturgical Coptic.
And genetically all studies conclude that modern Greeks are descendent from ancient Greeks. Obviously there have been population shifts but nothing substantial has been demonstrated. Like 8% of northern Greek DNA is Slavic. Whoop.
Your Bulgarian comparison is retarded because Thracian religion, culture, and language had been made extinct before the Slavic languages even reached what is today modern Bulgaria. How are they going to claim to be Thracian when they can't speak Thracian, can't list Thracian gods, and retain no record of their Thracian past?
Not that modern Greeks should lean too heavily on the fact that the ancient Greeks were literally on top of the world, but at least they can say with certainty 'Those were our ancestors'.
I mean christ, 2500 years later and they still use the same naming traditions too.
>>1296763
Arabs are as genetically distinct from Levantine people as Turks are from the Irish.
Arabs actually did do a good job of genetically assimilating their converts though. Christian and other non-Islamic populations in North Africa and the Middle-East are isolated from Arabic admixture and are close to ancient populations.
This is because Christians and Muslims in Egypt/Lebanon/Syria/Iraq/Jordan do not intermarry very often and such marriages always result in one party converting, thus maintaining population isolation and severely limiting possible genetic influence.
The ancient romans claimed EVERYONE in Germania had red hair
Take things with a grain of salt
>>1296876
It's not about genetics or language, it's a matter of continuity. Greeks didn't manage to preserve it - they died and were artificially recreated 19th century just like Macedonia was 20th century.
it's about identity, you can't change identity on a whim and then change back, that's not how it works. Bulgarian example is spot on, but you obviously don't know that original Bulgarians weren't slavs, didn't speak slavic - Bulgarian was a matter of identity. Same with Croatians and Russians to some extent.
People called themselves Romans for ages and you little shits decide that they were greek just because they spoke some variation of greek that isn't even spoken today. Greece is as greek as FYROM is macedonian.
> but Greece and the Greek people never had a unified Greek identity
You said it yourself, greek identity never existed, why the fuck are you even arguing then.
Go get fucked.
>>1297076
1/2
>It's not about genetics or language, it's a matter of continuity.
The only continuity you will accept is their national identifier? Are you stupid or?
Greeks continued to self identify as Hellenes even when they were proud Romans holding back the Muslim hordes. Being a Hellene did not have to do with borders or your citizenship, but your lineage and language.
>Greeks didn't manage to preserve it - they died and were artificially recreated 19th century just like Macedonia was 20th century.
What didn't they preserve? Cultural traditions / customs? They did. Their language? They did. Their religion? They did. Their geographical location? They did.
Macedonia is the perfect example of complete discontinuity and bullshit. Are they in the same geographical region? No. Do they speak the language? No. Do they preserve Greek customs? No.
>it's about identity, you can't change identity on a whim and then change back, that's not how it works.
Greeks became Roman citizens by decree of the senate. They were Romans in the sense that they lived in the Roman territories/Empire and were afforded full legal rights as Romans. So what is wrong with them saying they are Roman? It is like saying that Mr. Chan can not identify as both American and Chinese.
>Bulgarian example is spot on, but you obviously don't know that original Bulgarians weren't slavs, didn't speak slavic - Bulgarian was a matter of identity. Same with Croatians and Russians to some extent.
Except that Bulgarians don't pretend to be Bulgars. They use the name because they were subjects of the Bulgars/settled in their lands. As the Slavs gained influence and social position and their numbers grew, they assimilated the Bulgars and local Greco-Romans (who had stopped speaking Thracian centuries ago) and the ethno-linguistic identity of 'Bulgaria' changed into the precursor of what it is today.
>>1297076
2/2
>People called themselves Romans for ages and you little shits decide that they were greek just because they spoke some variation of greek that isn't even spoken today.
Modern Standard Greek springs directly from what was spoken in the Peloponnese in the 19th century. You will note that English has also undergone drastic changes over the centuries. No surprise that Greek has changed - in fact, it is surprising and a testament to their hardiness as a culture group /ethnicity that it has survived at all considering the external pressure it faced under the Ottomans and Slavs.
>Greece is as greek as FYROM is macedonian.
Does not even merit a response, but my previous reply sort of already covered this nonsense.
>You said it yourself, greek identity never existed, why the fuck are you even arguing then.
Greek identity as it metastasized in the 19th and 20th centuries did not exist. Greek ethnic identity (ie: Hellenes) has existed since at leas the 8th century BC.
They did not have a national identity, but they had an ethnic one that was derived from shared history and language (Homer, Heracles). That ethnic identity persisted under Roman dominion to the point that the Greeks had to concede that Heracles founded Rome in order to let Augustus partake in the Olympic games. And it even reasserted itself as a national identity of sorts (in all but name) in the 7th century AD when Greek replaced Latin as the official language, having already been the langua franca for the last 900 years of Roman rule in the eastern Mediterranean.
Your entire argument is 'they didnt call themselves greek and weren't a single country so modern greeks are a lie invented by colonialists'. Thank god there are literally 3 millennia worth of history to demonstrate otherwise.
>>1297076
Greeks have identified themselves as Graikoi for millennia and have always been very conscious of their ancient history. How are you even still arguing this? Looks to me like you painted yourself into a corner after being needlessly pedantic, just leave the thread senpai.
>>1296924
blond not red
>>1290814
can you please kill yourself you fucking moron?
ITT: people using the same old retarded arguments
"oh byzantines called themselves romaioi"
"oh you're turkish rape babies this /pol/ picture proves it!"
"oh you're albanians lol!!"
"oh all greeks died out"
kill yourselves illiterate cunts
>>1288038
this and black sea region of Turkey as well including Tracia region of Turkey
>>1289230
this
serious answer here OP
Modern Greeks have nothing to do with Ancient Greeks: there are more people in the world learning ancient Greek than modern.
Greeks are genetically closer to Turks and other near easterners than other Europeans.
Greek history is not European, it's centered around the levant and the middle east.
Greece is not western. Ever since the schism has Greece abandoned the west. Greece was only considered western by westerners as a meme about "muh democracy". It's as western as Judea is Chirstian catholic.
Greeks are irresponsible crybabies. Their history of not paying debts is tradition; they didn't pay the Catalans, they didn't pay the Venetians, they won't pay Europe.
>>1299284
the levant was part of the west until islam took over
>>1299499
nope
The people who live in Greece and soak the Greek language I'd wager
All other answers are going to be pseudo-anthropological "genetics experts", not actual ethnic features
>>1288016
/thread
>>1289230
>I don't know what ethnicity is: the post
>>1299284
>Greeks are genetically closer to Turks and other near easterners than other Europeans.
False, look at any map which shows genetic distance between European groups
>
Modern Greeks have nothing to do with Ancient Greeks: there are more people in the world learning ancient Greek than modern.
And? They're closely related language
>Greek history is not European, it's centered around the levant and the middle east.
False, Greek history involved both Europe (Greece, Italy, even some parts of France) and the Near east (Anatolia, Lybia).
>Greeks are irresponsible crybabies. Their history of not paying debts is tradition; they didn't pay the Catalans, they didn't pay the Venetians, they won't pay Europe.
Don't see how that proves that they don't descend from ancient Greeks.
Not even Greek but it makes me mad seeing retards who have no clue what they're talking about, this isn't /int/ with your ebin banter, fuck off retard.
>>1301012
>Modern Greeks have nothing to do with Ancient Greeks: there are more people in the world learning ancient Greek than modern.
The only people who learn ancient Greek are Byzantine historians (medieval Greek), Classicists (Homeric, Attic, Koine) and people interested in reading the Greek bible/liturgy (Koine).
There are not more people in those categories than there are school-aged Greeks and Greek diaspora.
At least I hope not. There is no need for a million Classicists and Byzantine historians.....
>>1288016
this.
Stop spamming meme plz
>>1299815
why do you think judaism and christianity are classified as western religions?
>>1302035
Because those religions got adopted by westerners or people turning into westerners?
>modern ""greek""
>having anything to do with ancient greek
>>1289206
>He thinks Hellenism died
