What was the best possible method to ensure the survival of Poland in 1939? How could it have survived, or even prospered?
>>1285103
Gas all the Germans.
>>1285103
destruction of Germany
Subjecation of Germany
Germany and all German people must be banished off the face of the Earth by a magical wizard to ensure the survival of Poland
>>1285103
Do Polish complain about losing that land to Ukraine/Belorussia?
>>1285103
Pretty sure it's impossible.
I doubt they could have become a Nazi client state like Slovakia - as their land was needed for Lebensraum - and if they aligned with the Soviets the Nazis would have fucked them regardless.
>>1285581
Also remember that Hitler's promises wasn't worth a damn
Do a Pétain and ally with Germany. Even if it was just a puppet state to Germany it would've avoided a lot of bloodshed.
>>1285678
That would have failed horribly if the Allies had won. Poland would only lose territory and maybe its independence, becoming a soviet republic.
Also, even worse Soviet repression against Polish people now that the country has the status of a defeated fascist state.
Their social and cultural elites would be destroyed completely.
If the Axis wins, Poland would become a colony of Germany even if it had fought by its side.
>>1285575
What do you think?
>>1285678
On the frontlines against USSR? Both Hungary and Romania even Italy were used as cannon fodder on the eastern front. What makes you think Poland would be any different?
>>1285581
Lebensraum was a meme, you know that right?
>>1287089
Yes, but it was still a Nazi ideology - even if they never acted on it.
I doubt they would accept Poland's independence - as that would completely undermine everything they'd been saying. Especially as they could easily invade.
>>1285160
>magical wizard
As opposed to what?
>>1287089
Not really.
It was meme but some guys take it serious. The anti inteligencia action where they slaughter polish elities.The Nazi Party rule in GG was terrible.
>>1287401
Prussia rise to power on Polish ruin. Victorius Germany wold never give Poland any concesion. Maybe on East but not on West.
It was clear in 1st WW, even more in 2nd.
After German victory in 39 Germans make it clear.
>>1286306
Pretty much this. Allying with West was only sensible option. If French not fail and come with help it could turn better but still it was the best.
>>1286306
The Soviet Union already despised Poland and killed a number of its elite. Just look at Katyn or the Baltic states. I also doubt that Poland would be completely destroyed if it had served alongside the axis and by some miracle help to win the war. Croatia was established as a independent state after Germany took over Yugoslavia and it sent troops to the eastern front and engaged in anti-partisan activities.
>>1286640
Poland would no doubt suffer from the war but every country did. Over 80% of Warsaw was destroyed in the uprising which was essentially just the German army bombarding a city full of poorly equipped rebels. If it was an official battle it would've gone differently.
>>1285103
Why should we care about saving useless things like poland?
>>1285103
Declaring War Against Germany before 1939. Way, way before 1939.
The Allies won't give a shit and will be unwilling to help, Hitler wants dat Polish clay, and the Soviets want Poland dead. And without the industrial capability to replace guns and shit, even if their army were hardcore asskickers, you can't kick ass without the ability to crank out tanks en masse in a short period of time.
Their only option is to invade Germany before Hitler can consolidate his power.
PRESS F TO PAY RESPECTS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wizna
>One of the symbols of the battle is Captain Władysław Raginis, the commanding officer of the Polish force, who swore to hold his position as long as he was alive. When the last two bunkers under his command ran out of ammunition, he ordered his men to surrender their arms and committed suicide by throwing himself on a live grenade.
>At noon on the third day, the German commander, Heinz Guderian, threatened that all Polish POWs would be shot if the defense of the bunker did not cease.[1][8][9] Turning to the rest in the shelter he thanked them for the fact that they were soldiers and did their duty, he then ordered them to surrender themselves and leave the shelter - he would keep his word and not surrender.[3] Seweryn Biegański, who was the last to leave the shelter, describes the moment;[3]
"The captain looked at me warmly and softly urged me to leave. When I was at the exit, I was hit on my back with strong gust and I heard an explosion."
>>1285575
nationalists do, nobody else gives a shit, at best some get a bit sad but not 14/88 GAS THE HOHOLS LWÓW NASZ KURWA level
>>1285103
I wish we had some of the border cities around modern Poland like Brzesc and Lwow which were mostly Polish. More annoyed at Russia claiming parts of Ukraine when half of Eastern Europe can claim their neighbor's land.
>>1285575
No. Many people have problems pointing all those "Lwows" and "Wilnos" on a map. Most actually don't give a damn. Autistic nationalists are an exception.
We do get mad however when Ukrainians chimp out again like they often do and do things like changing historical monuments by removing their Polish connotations during "renovation".
>>1289072
Side question: How well did Lithuania fare in the commonwealth? Were they better off than being their own country? Is it more complicated than that?
I know literally nothing about eastern Europe other than
>muh iron curtain
>muh balkanization
>muh serfs
and
>muh horse nomad invaders
>>1285575
Not really. In 1930's there was a term that functions to this day in many ways - that there's Poland A(as in - Poland class A) and Poland B. With Poland B being enormously underdeveloped.
Well the Belarusian/Lithuanian/Ukrainian lands formed majority of the Poland B. Now, the so called "recovered lands" were much better developed, even though being shithole of Germany, so it was a good trade.
Population was moved too, so apart from relatively small minorities who have some issues from time to time(particularly in Lithuania and Belarus) there's very little reason to complain about.
>>1287401
>even if they never acted on it.
They've started removing Poles from farms etc. and settling ethnic Germans in their place after like 1940.
To this day several CDU and SDP members are people who were born to the families that settled the place.
>>1285103
They will survive the best under german supremacy
>>1289150
They fared pretty well. They had their own laws, army, taxation etc. It's also not a secret that Lithuania would be quickly gobbled up by Moscow if it didn't unify with Poland. The Union of Lublin was actually an end-of-life project by the last Jagiellon king who was terrified of what would happen to Lithuania after his death, when the personal union between Poland and Lithuania ends.
>>1289171
>started
Dude, more than 2 million of Poles were removed and only a little less Germans were settled in.
>>1289150
Commonwealth was very weird creation, with "The Crown"(Poland, modern day Baltic states and Ukraine) and Lithuania(then containing both modern Lithuania and Belarus) being relatively independent with own assemblies, treasury, army etc.
>>1289185
>with own assemblies
Nope, the Sejm (legislature) was one for the whole Commonwealth.
>>1285103
> What was the best possible method to ensure the survival of Poland in 1939?
Short of ASBs, there ain’t much that can be done at that late point in time.
At best, had France and the UK made good on their alliance with Poland and attacked Germany, the Soviets would probably have bailed on the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact and Poland might have been able to be supported via the Romanian Bridgehead but this would have required completely different people in charge in France and the UK, neither of which ever had any intention of honoring their defense treaty with Poland.
>>1289193
>wojtek
made me wojkek
>>1289191
>Didn't they shit the bed when it came to handling their own aristocracy?
They did it to get more support for various wars, it was sort of a bargain deal.
Jagiellons had enormously successful dynastic policy in early 15th century securing themselves throne of Hungary and I think Bohemia(don't remember too well though) all of which went to shit with death of Władysław III(also known as Władysław of Varna, because he died during that battle).
>>1289191
The dynasty ended ruling quite a few lands besides the Commonwealth. in Poland, they were kind of like the Stuarts i.e. foreigners that adopted a lot of the culture of their new domains.
>>1289040
F
Holy shit
>>1289207
Damn shame. I always thought it was odd how poorly Lithuania ended up for how much arable land they actually have. Shit's the base of any pre-global economy that wasn't pastoral or trade based.
Though considering their neighbors it's a miracle they're sovereign at all.
>>1289220
>I always thought it was odd how poorly Lithuania ended up for how much arable land they actually have.
Land itself doesn't mean shit without population. Modern day Lithuania is dominated by relatively poor post-glacial soils, while what is Belarus now, was once like - huge forests on the north, huge marshes on the south and very little people here and there.
>>1285103
>>1285103
>give back territory stolen by Poland during their invasion of Belarus, Ukraine during Russia's civil war
>start mining the border with Germany, I mean so much so that there's no real chance of cleaning them up after the war
>destroy all bridges, rails, and roads to/from Germany
>start promising the UK and US that Poland can be their own little military base in the heart of Europe. Just incentives them to back Poland or put military there before there even is a war. Don't
have to keep the promise necessarily.
>>1285103
gib danzig
>>1285103
>1. Invite the British Crown and or the American president and throw the biggest unending royal/presidential party in history!
>2. German/Russian civilians eat/drink for free.
While the crown or leader of a major country is present in Poland, no country could attack it without instigating a bigger war. Likewise, attacking your own people while they're drunk is embarrassing and needless. Poland is safe until the booze runs out/the VIP's go home.
Bonus points:
>3. Start Lend/lease with America to get free hamburgers, Germany for sausage and beer, Russia for vodka, France for pastry and just keep the party going till the war's over.
>>1285103
Poland survived so I'm not sure what this thread is supposed to be about.
>>1289718
german genocide and soviet yoke can hardly be called surviving
>>1289040
Faggot
You wouldn't even know about him if it wasn't for Sabaton
>>1289175
Grand Duchy was poorer, less populated and more troublesome part of Commonwhealth.
It drag Crown into wars with Moskals and Tatars, add Cossack problem and force Polish focus into East ad South to the point of competly abadoning polish interest in the west(like reclaimng lost part of the Cown).
Mor often than not Poles were forced to go to war to save some Lithuanian ass.
>>1285103
Intermarium.
>>1285103
announce the national language and culture to be german and announce a 10 year plan to "germanize" poland before applying to join the third reich. it would confuse the nazis so much they might not invade desu.
>>1285103
Poland was fucked either way. Germans and Soviets slaughtered them, allies betrayed them in Yalta. Either way, Poland was gonna end up bleeding out and becoming a Soviet puppet.
>>1289040
F
>UNLESS
>YOU
>ARE
>FORTY
>TO
>ONE
>YOUR FORCES WILL BE UNDONE!
