Was it stable economically?
Was it stable politically?
Were they legitimately fascist or just a generic dictatorship?
In what ways was falangism different to fascism?
Clue me in, lads. I know it's more political than historical but /pol/ will just shit me up.
>Was it stable economically?
At first Franco tried to attempt fascist autarky. This didn't work out well for a country emerging from a horrible civil war, so he eventually liberalized the economy, which was stable from that point on.
>Was it stable politically?
Yes.
>Were they legitimately fascist or just a generic dictatorship?
It was just a conservative dictatorship.
>In what ways was falangism different to fascism?
Falangism was the Spanish form of fascism, and, since the Spaniards were very Catholic, was more clerical than Italian or German fascism.
>>1283061
Well, Franco was the leader of Spain, so it clearly wasn't fascist
>>1283061
Franco Spain was a second golden age.
>>1283313
Franco's Spain was largely stable, but toward the conclusion of the second franquismo, insurrectionist groups like ETA were extreme examples indicative of a general discontent with the dictatorship, particularly among the generations that hadn't lived through the atrocities of the war. Or at least, that's just my interpretation, man.
>>1283313
>more clerican than Italian Fascism
Italian Fascism wasn't clerical at all. In theory, Italian Fascists, really hated the clergy and the Vatican and considered it a huge part of what was wrong with the country and the past.
Nazi Germany was occultist. In both cases the church colluded to an extent in order to survive (because they're slimy like that), but they weren't an integral part of the dogma.
>>1283340
I see shitposts like this all the time, but there's an actual possibility that you're not shitposting and I'd like to see what you mean. How was it a second golden age? Do you mean in relative terms (i.e., compared to the instabilities of the Second Republic and the Transition)? Are you comparing their sources of revenue against one another? How was it a golden age?
>>1283390
Because /pol/ told him so.
>>1283390
You won't get serious answer, friend. He has no clue why he thinks it's a golden age apart for some crappy, shallow political narrative he's been co-opted to push.
>>1283390
Industrialization and modernization happened during Franco's reign
It's why old Spanish people still love him and and it's why a lot of old Italians love Mussolini. A lot of them went from being the kids of poor farmers who had limited exposure to paved roads and electricity, to people who lived a middle class house and owned a car
My grandma remembers her town getting a tonne of paved roads and modern buildings during Franco's reign
>>1283417
>>1283431
Stay mad, commushits
>>1283667
"They gave us paved roads and modern buildings, so all the killings, torture, mass incarcerations, lack of freedom, corruption etc. are all okay with me."
I can tell you come from solid rural serf stock. I don't know if I can be mad at you given the apparent simplicity of you and your family's minds.
>>1283667
You're also wrong in the case of Italy. It had already industrialised and its manufacturing centres had already been established at least a couple of decades prior to Fascism. Mussolini's command of the economy was actually pretty disastrous.
Spain indeed hadn't industrialised before Franco but you should blame the houses of Habsburg (who famously also missed the industrialisation train in A-H) and Bourbon for that rather than "gommunism".
>>1283667
>Industrialization and modernization happened during Franco's reign
I find reasons like this interesting because I've heard them from people who have lived under left wing and right wing dictatorships yet in other cases "X brought industrialization, modernization, etc" does not engender any warm feelings towards a regime.
>>1283756
That's because it's a bogus reason. The Kims undeniably were the first to industrialise the north of Korea, the Soviets were the first to industrialise Russia (at that scale). Somehow I doubt our friend would view them as meritorious on that fact alone. The ways by which you industrialise and toward what goal also matters. In the case of Italy, Mussolini geared the entire industrial effort and management of the economy for war and colonialist purposes way before war had broken out with disastrous results for the country's finances (and equally disastrous results in both the case of the war and his colonial conquests).
Only communists dislike Franco.
>>1283805
How about you make the same chart for every single ex-Soviet Bloc country. Will the better figures on the left-hand side still indicate that whatever regime is on the left is better? Are you a communist Anon?
>>1283743
I heard that parts of Italy stilled used fountains from the Renaissance for drinking water until the 20's and 30's.
>>1283861
Yes and there are people in Britain who didn't have access to indoor bathrooms in their houses until the 1970s. Also, Italy had only been an independent unified nation-state for approx. 50 years at that point.
>>1283886
There's a big difference between using an outhouse with proper underground plumbing and drinking out of a well which could easily serve to spread diseases if even a single diseased person used it.
>>1283909
>an outhouse with proper underground plumbing
Do you even know what UK slums were like? Also, people used wells as their primary source of water all over rural Europe well into the 20th century. I don't see the point you're trying to make, are you just mentioning this as an interesting historical fact?
>>1283667
My grandad lived through the Franco era (he was born in 1926 to peasants in Cantabria) and he moved to Cadiz, became a lawyer with a nice house, car, wife, family, all of that stuff, but he still has a pretty bad opinion of Franco, because that's just what happens when a backwards country modernizes, it doesn't require an oppressive, backwards dictatorship.
>>1284974
Absolutely big guy/10
>>1283805
>Comparing a country in the economically stable 70s to a county in a disastrous single market trying to recover from the great recession, also the reason incarnation was so low was they Francoist Spain was built on a culture of fear, with political prisoners mostly executed off official records.
Also Franco ruined the Falange and killed Rivera
>>1285236
>Also Franco ruined the Falange and killed Rivera
I hope you don't mean he killed him literally. He just didn't get around to rescuing him.
[spoiler]We all know he let him die, of course. Rivera would have been competition.[/spoiler]
He also ruined Carlism forever by forcing them to become Falangists.
>>1284956
This desu.
>>1285236
>killed Rivera
Nigger tier comment
>>1285236
>killed rivera
faggot
>>1285261
>Implying Franco didn't actively reject prisoner exchanges to save Rivera, instead allowing his brother in law under his influence to become President of the Falange
Stay upset my reactionary friend
>>1285284
Rivera was shot without a trial. And thank God that he died,that nut would have joined the axis and destroy Spain another time. Thank God that Franco fooled Hitler,and dtablished a glorious conservative regime
no os olvideis de los pantanos
>>1285296
Based.Clean and cheap energy. Thank you Paco I el grande.
>>1283667
After Brazil take some italians cities in WWII (Montese, Monte Castelo and others) take spolios: mechanical technology.
In brazilian techinical schools still own italians machinary.
>>1283061
You won't get any good answers in here, I recommend you to read "The Development of Modern Spain: An Economic History of the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries (Harvard Historical Studies)"
Basically the industrialization happened despite Franco.
>>1283340
>Franco Spain was a second golden age
Spain wasn't doing great by Western standards, until the construction boom in the 80s Spain was literally the Portugal of Europe
>>1285515
But anon, Portugal was the Portugal of Europe.
>>1285523
>Portugal was the Portugal of Europe
What does that make Greece?
>>1285383
>Basically the industrialization happened despite Franco.
>Trusting lefties academia
>Country desindustrializes after Franco
Sure thing pal
>>1285541
>Tortella
>Nadal
>Carreras
>Leftist
You don't know shit about what you are talking about, shut the fuck up.
>>1283692
>implying those things: paved roads, rural electricity, efficient transportation and modern buildings as well as the unity of the country does not pay the killing of red bandits
Stay mad Jordi
>>1284956
Maybe your grandad was one of those average citizens who thrive under a government and despite of that bashes it hard.
>>1283805
So you went watered-down-commie, uh?
>>1285550
That sentence is incoherent.
Mando hacer pantanos. A mi no me toqueis la polla. Donde estaria España ahora sin esas vegas del Guadiana. Los extremeños seguirian comiendo terrones y follando cabras.
>>1283805
You are comparing a country in a time of economical stability worldwide to a country with an economical crisis that didn't even started in said country.
>>1287498
>Los extremeños seguirian comiendo terrones y follando cabras.
¿No lo hacen aún?
>>1285529
Mexico of Europe of course.
>>1285541
>Country desindustrializes after Franco
Literally because of the EU. Stay ignorant.
>>1287801
¿Hay siquiera gente que viva en Extremadura?
>>1283061
Read Paul Preston's biography "Franco"
Next, Anthony Beevor's "The Spanish Civil War"
(Revised updated edition)
For maximum political history of the war ( Republican side), go for Burnett Bolloten's mammoth "the Spanish Civil War : Revolution and counter revolution ".
>>1287811
>Literally because of the EU
I didnt know that Franco's spain was in the EU.
Retard, the post
>>1289656
It's funny because Franco's Spain always wanted to join CEE without becoming a democracy
