Is it still the ship of Theseus once all of its pieces are replaced?
If you replace piece by piece, then yes.
If you take the whole thing apart and built it again, then no.
>>1280986
Theseus and Greek Heroes- if they even existed- most likely sailed in Pre-Classical Greek Ships.
Remember: everything in Greek Myth supposedly happened in ancient times for the Classical Greeks
>>1280986
It stopped being Theseus' ship as soon as Theseus died
>>1280986
i mean he still owns and posesses the ship, it is not theseus's ship because of the parts it is theseus's ship because it is his property
"Theseus ship" is merely a figment of imagination, it does not exist in the material world. Only as a concept, a spook.
You wouldnt download Theseus's ship
Is America still the same country after all the people living in it when it was founded are dead?
>>1281181
I see what you did there.
Are you still you now that 100% of your solid mass has died and been replaced with new cells gradually, many times over?
>>1281237
stop giving me existential dread
>>1280994
This. Problem solved. No more philosophy please.
>>1280986
Did you know that your body entirely regenerates itself over the course of a few years, every single cell replicates, and the old ones die and fall off or get shat out etc.
This means that the body you have now is quite literally completely new and separate to the one you had a few years back.
The only exception to this is brain cells which do not get replaced. The brain is the only part that is the original you.
So in that sense, you are still you after a few years?
>>1281237
But that's not true
>>1280994
Good, now explain your reasoning.
There is no intrinsic property that ever made it "the ship of Theseus." It is that only because that's how we think of it, and it will remain so if and only if we continue to do so.
>>1281041
under rated
There are two very good answers to this in ancient philosophy. I havn't seen anyone try to discuss them which really says something about this board.
Most of the posts here don't even seem to understand what the greater question behind the ship is which makes the answers completely uninteresting.
Whatvis the essence if a ship?
>>1280994
So teleportation is a no go?
>>1281416
You could argue that it is only the ship of theseus because the king of Athens owns it. So if it is still rebuilt, even as another ship, it is still the ship of theseus.
>>1281416
Buddhist anatta "no self" main point.
>>1280994
No, if nothing is left of the original then it's the same in name only. It's like having the Beatles except it's Paul McCartney and three other guys and then Paul dies (again) and is replaced by a fourth random person. Despite what's said it's no longer the Beatles.
>>1282343
Humans are not the same as ship as identify is basically a human thing.
>>1280986
It is if people believe it to be so.
>>1282343
>it's the same in name only
As opposed to what?
>>1281399
Because it becomes part of th ship
Whether new or not it's now the ship
>>1282419
In many ways yes. It has changed some of its borders, government and economy drastically in just 80 years.
>>1282441
So those people who died before 80 years and older weren't Frenchmen? In 80 more years, the current Frenchmen won't be frenchmen?
You do realize how absurd this sounds right?
Here's an alternate version that isn't answered by >>1280994 :
>the ship is split into two exactly equal halves
>Both the halves have new replacement halves built for them
>There are now two ships, each with exactly half the original ship in them.
>Which is the original ship?
>>1280994
Fpbp
>>1282458
Not Frenchman in the same sense. Are the people who died in Prussia also German?
>>1281586
So are you gonna post them or just continue masturbating to your faux intellectual superiority?
It is a new ship when they replace the keel.
Can we move on now?
>>1280986
It is the ship of Theseus because Theseus owned it. If all the pieces get replaced it is no longer the ship of Theseus because Theseus never owned any part of it.
>>1280994
No,because at that point, no piece of the Ship was ever manned by Theseus.
It becomes a replica at the moment the last piece of wood he owned is replaced.
Actually, the second any piece of the ship is lost or replaced, the ship stops being the same ship it was in the first place, but as long as Theseus is alive to own all the iterations of it, it can still be called his ship.
>>1283402
How can that be if Theseus himself is just a number of cells being constantly replaced, composed of atoms being constantly replaced, again and again?
>>1283445
If the collection of cells can recognize itself as Theseus, then it can be said to be Theseus.
A boat cannot recognize itself, and since men cannot recognize the thoughts of others, animate or not, they cannot say that the ship is Theseus'.
We change our cells every other week. How are we we?
>>1283474
good knowledge of biology there buddy
>>1283515
Yea, obviously we don't change our neurons every time, but every other important organ changes cells pretty frequently. Though our neurons do change as we grow up so how can we be our brains? Am I only I when I stopped developing?
>>1283521
We're the information relayed by our bodies, not the bodies themselves.
You're not your brain, your brain just makes it possible for you to be you.
>>1282437
>Whether new or not it's now the ship
But once you do this the ship becomes an idea - it is no longer what it was.
>>1283521
Even your nuerons get replaced eventually. Once you get to 20ish no cell of the body you were born with remains. On a molecular level you get fully replaced much earlier
>>1281274
Yes because my meat is not what defines me but the experiences and the brain in which they are stored
Now if you had amnesia and completely forgot everything you once knew, it could be argued that you're a completely different person
>>1281586
Kill yourself
>>1280998
Yup. The Greeks had a vibrant culture before *and* after the bronze age collapse, which is rare. I can only think of the Egyptians who also maintined their cultural identity.everyone else seems to have changed massively and gotten new names.
