I have a question for religious people: How do you reason your god or gods inactivity in recent years? Perhaps they have moved on from our world and are creating another? Maybe they are waiting to see where we go as a humanity? I'm curious as to what you all think and how they differ from religion to religion.
We demand more from people who claim to see and experience spiritual events. A few thousand years ago, if someone said they saw a man walk on water, people were more likely to believe it if multiple claimed it to be true. Today, if a group of people say they saw a man walk on water, we'd brandish them as weirdos or demand video evidence.
>>1279988
God isn't separate from our world. There is no inactivity; all is activity.
>>1279988
>How do you reason your god or gods inactivity in recent years?
Literally what?
>>1280033
>>1280033
Old Testament: Bringing down a pillar of fire, parting the waters, bringing down the walls of Jericho, feeding the multitudes with manna, etc.
New Testament: Curing lepers and exorcising some supposedly "possessed" people, turning water into wine and multiplying matter, bringing people back to life
Modern day: A few lights here and there, a face that supposedly looks like Jesus or Mary's on toast, a body that didn't decompose that rapidly compared to others, etc.
>>1279988
>God's Inactivity
this was one of the reasons I stopped beliving
supposedly there were people performing miracles left and right until the scientific method came around
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_list_of_saints_and_blesseds_in_the_15th_century
>god works in mysterious ways (for us)
Is that so hard to understand?
If god left us we wouldn't last a day
>>1279997
/thread
>>1280024
>>1280033
The Old Testament and New Testament are filled with descriptions of God performing awesome displays of power. From the ten plagues of Egypt to Elijah being able to cast miracles on command, to Jesus walking on water and the apostles being able to perform miracles and magically delivered in times of need.
Even up until the 17th century, there were so many stories of saints having performed miraculous deeds such as levitation, bilocation, stigmata, apportation, etc.
And yet, we have nothing like these in the modern age. Are the prayers of 21st century lay Christians less important to God for some strange and mysterious reason? Why is Elijah able to tempt God and command him to bring forth fire and water? Why can the Israelites pray for deliverance and have both water gush forth from rock and manna fall from heaven, but yet lay Christians today are admonished to pray for guidance rather than for direct intervention?
Even worse, the miracles that supposedly have occurred in the 20th-21st century are on a scale that is absolutely laughable compared to earlier stories of God's displays of power. We have Fatima and Lourdes, and all they were were some lights and some "healings" (funnily, all the miraculous healings were/are of diseases whose recoveries could be attributed to proper care or chance: why is it that no amputee has grown back a limb? why hasn't someone with AIDS found themselves suddenly possessing an immune system once more?)
This is what caused me to realize the whole thing is a sham.
>>1279988
>I have a question for religious people: How do you reason your god or gods inactivity in recent years?
The sheer idea of inactivity contradicts how Apostolic Christianity understands God.
>>1280148
Still happens today in orthodox Church - from miraculous healing to angelic / demonic apparitions in sight of many people.
No reason to split oceans - because the Church - God salvation plan was already fullfiled and we live the millenniums of grace now, if you so desire you can live as a hermit or on very traditional monasteries and let Holy Spirit model your soul - that's how you will have a direct experience of "paranormal".
>>1279988
God found another species on another planet that is more worthy of his attention.
>>1280240
>from miraculous healing
Oh? Really? You mean those "cases" where people's betterment could be attributed to chance? Like I said: why is there no cases of amputees growing back limbs? Of paraplegics regaining use of their body?
>No reason to split oceans
Bullshit. God sent an angel to break Peter and his followers of out prison; he made water materialize from nowhere in order to save Ishmael and his mother; he made mannah fall from Heaven in order to feed some angry kikes with whom he'd already gotten displeased with because of the Golden Calf. There's many more stories like that.
And yet, in the face of all the atrocities of the 20th century, where has there been an explicitly supernatural intervention to save Christians in despair or need?
>angelic / demonic apparitions in sight of many people.
>in sight of many people.
Does the Hindu milk miracle or the apparition of Singapore's "Monkey God" and the fact that multitudes of people claimed to have witnessed these make Hinduism real?
>>1280077
>multiplying matter
To be fair that's an amazing felt.
Just not as showy as creating the World/Destroying Babel etc
>>1280240
>millenniums of grace now
Let me just inform Boko harem to abduct any more girls for sex slavery
>>1280077
1600 nun
>>1280283
>Like I said: why is there no cases of amputees growing back limbs
Because that's retarded tbqh.
Why would god make nature and a natural balance if He's going to break it up to impress some edgy atheist?
If God would resurrect a dead on your prayer you will have to pay back to God - infinitely.
But God makes it so for all our lives that he owes us because the misery in which we live into, in orthodoxy a horrible death is a good thing and welcomed because it means great rewards and great purification.
I guess you come from another background of ideology where God has to comfort you every second of life - no matter if you are good or evil - God has to be 24/7 on your side, and do paranormal shit - breaking nature up because you're a special snowflake.
>And yet, in the face of all the atrocities of the 20th century, where has there been an explicitly supernatural intervention to save Christians in despair or need?
It happens tho, but you don't believe the events. When you read about them you say - ah no it must be fake.
You could start with Everghetinos - there are consecrated amazing miracles that happened all over the world.
We know that w/e miracle happens in cults, other religions are from demons and have no interest for Orthodox church - so don't even want to talk about it.
>>1280391
Wow God should totally make everyone a robot in order to remove evil from the world, that's the whole point of creation to have automatons with no free will. God is to blame for what humans do with their free will. After all humans rebelled because they wanted freedom now they blame God that they use their freedom in a bad way.
>>1280407
>providing evidence for your existence is 'just to impress people'
You're literally grasping for straws here. Imagine if we conducted the growth of knowledge like this. Imagine people at CERN going 'I could show you the Higgs particle, but why would I do that? Just to impress you? Well, thank goodness not everyone is as obsessed with recognition as you are'
>>1280422
But God already showed you all you need.. literally everything - and if you want to believe but you have doubts, you'll see a miracle if God so wants, I personally experienced the grace of Holy Spirit.
>>1279988
>How do you reason your god inactivity in recent years?
God has been pretty damn active as of late. There are thousands of reported visions of Jesus in the Middle East, Africa, and South Asia converting devout Muslims to Christianity.
Bible-belt Americans praying for their conversion seems to be having an effect.
>>1280047
>I don't know of any christian history so there isn't any history
Bruh, I saw the thread name and got excited. I actually took time to skim/read thread up to this point too! Ok, so here's what's legit:
I literally go around telling people their future/where they're at rn as a person and just generally encouraging ppl. But that's usually only when I get words, otherwise I just chill and be just like you, all day long, except I start the day with worship/reading the bible.
As for the guy who was all like "amputees growing back limbs is retarded" well.... It's awesome actually. I personally haven't seen a FULL limb grow out, but I've seen some "minor stuff." One woman spazzed out on the floor when I prayed for her, then got up and said he back was healed and she didn't have titinus anymore. Another persons hand was healed from hurting when I wasn't even expecting it "yeah, I guess I'll pray..." etc. Also some kid got off his crutches last year when I was at youth for the nations, was pretty cool. His foot was swollen up and stuff, we prayed for it and told him to go walk down the hallway and come back, by the time he was back it looked normal. Tons of fun stuff going on with God, if people would actually believe what's in their bible and get with the holy spirit/ shut up and listen instead of always acting like He isn't there things would be much better.
Also, it's a lot easier to show off the supernatural in third world countries/out in the woods FYI. If you wanna see some demons and stuff go there, not MURICA or anywhere that's full of secessionists.
And for the orthodox dude... Yeah, God gave salvation freely, why not healing? Jesus already won friend, no need to pretend we can't do anything. Bad things happen because we aren't fulfilling our individual destinies as Christians, and instead settle for the status quot: Get a job/wife, have children and peace out till you die.
As for america not seeing stuff, I really feel like it's this way so that people will eventually hunger and thirst for the... limit, will post more.
As I was saying, I feel like America doesn't see much so we start WANTING the prophetic/apostolic/healing ministries. Then there's also we should have people coming HERE on mission trips in the state we're in. Anyways, peace, I'll be watching the thread. Oh yeah, dreams are legit too. Good luck interpreting them. Should ask holy spirit to come, and then receive all the benefits of that, and get to know God.
>>1280426
So basically, your faith is self-verifying and can never be falsified.
Now, that's fine as a position of faith, but don't tell me that's a valid position of knowledge, as one the main characteristics of knowledge is the acknowledgment that your beliefs can be wrong.
No matter how valid as a position of faith it may be, as a position of knowledge, your position can never be accepted
>>1280089
>people performing miracles
>saints and blesseds
You don't understand what saints are. To be a saint you have to perform miracles AFTER your death (2 for sainthood, 1 for blessed, -1 miracle if you are martyred).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonization
>right until the scientific method came around
There are a ton of modern saints:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronological_list_of_saints_and_blesseds_in_the_20th_century
If you are referring to the 16 century downturn of canonizations, that was because of the Protestant Revolt, not because of the invention of calculus.
>this was one of the reasons I stopped beliving
Being uneducated is sadly the #1 reason people leave.
>>1280407
this is a troll
Dear God, please join us on this thread before you get bumped for inactivity.
So because people don't look for God on their own they call Him inactive? They make all these secular assumptions about God for what particular reason? They call it logical, but it is not logical to deny that people who search for God find Him active without rest.
God is very active in all life, I don't understand what is so difficult for people. Maybe they can't contemplate the intangible right now or they feel as if God is to blame for a cause of suffering in their life but that is an assumption.
>>1280407
Ah, but he "heals the sick" and creates funny weather formations? But amputations are off limits?
>god has to be 24/7 by your side
Well, it sure seemed that way when the ol bible was happening. God was doing this and that and smiting some chumps here and saving lives there. But today? No, he doesn't need to show his power. Gosh, he must be tired or something.
or, you know, it's all fake....
>>1282694
>can't contemplate the intangible
Tell that to the girls being raped and murdered by Boko Haram. It's all part of God's plan for you to have a terrible life so that someone can act self-righteous on a degenerate image-board. What a load of bullshit.
"we don't know gods plan durr" = "it's clearly bullshit but I can't swallow my pride!"
Consider:
A little girl in Chechyna in 1999. Born during the first war, she is now witness to a second. Her father was brutally murdered by some Chechen Muslims as their family is pro-russian/christian and lives in Chechnya. She had been wounded by shrapnel in the first war and has no way to remedy it, so she must live her daily life in pain. at 4, it's all she knows. Her mother simply repeats to her: It's God's plan, it will all work out in the end. The Russians come through and "liberate" her village, but not after thoroughly shelling it. The little girl's home is leveled, killing her mother and mortally wounding her. As she painfully awaits the eternal silence, she thinks "It's all God's plan."
Alternatively, a wealthy American mega-church pastor has never grown up with a want or a need, and has been praising God for it since he could speak. He went to the best seminary in the country, started a multi-campus megachurch and lives EXTREMELY comfortably with his trophy wife and perfect children. Of course, he thanks God for his great fortune every day and as he curls up next to his wife in bed each night, he never forgets to say: "It's all God's plan"
Classic God, amirite?
>>1282735
>Why do bad things happen to heretics?
>>1280395
That's not magic, that's saponification.
Well, I understand soap must seem like magic to you.
>>1282735
Your blaming God for other people's actions and bad decisions. Also you limit the term "God's plan" to fit your description of what you think is wrong about God.
>>1279988
I would say you have absolutely no idea what God does if you think He can be absent for one nanosecond.
>>1280077
>Modern day: A few lights here and there, a face that supposedly looks like Jesus or Mary's on toast, a body that didn't decompose that rapidly compared to others, etc.
None of these are godly miracles; the lights and Marian apparitions are all demonic.
>>1279988
Because faith. There has been a great falling away. People don't care or repent so why would God send them a sign. He said himself the signseekers would not be granted a sign. There are many reports of miracles although and other things but you won't hear about it because no one cares anymore.
>>1282755
Well, I don't see God's plan refuting it. What would you propose that would justify this brutality that isn't something as superficial as "we can't know god, duh!!"
>blaming god for peoples' bad decisions
Oh man...So, a miracle (a good thing) done by a human is God but something of equal magnitude on the other side of the spectrum is human? Oh, ok!
>>1282788
hmmm, what does he do then if you seem to know chummo
>>1282807
>signseekers won't be granted a sign
How convenient lol
>miracles
Tell me all the bible-tier infallible miracles that have happened recently. Hard mode: no disease """cures""" or weather related phenomena
>>1282816
You just need to realize align your perspective you worry about things you have ever no responsibility for in order to make God sound like a bad guy
>>1282821
Won't be convenient if it's all about faith, look around, it's enough evidence
No health or weather miracles lel
What else would they're be then?
>>1280216
I think you are missing the point they arent arguing about Aristotelian sustenance but miracles
>>1282816
God holds everything together. Everything. To sub-atomic levels we have not even dreamed of yet.
And when He lets go......
*boom*
In the Old Testament God performs miracles on a grand scale for the Jews...and they still worship a golden calf at the foot of Mount Sinai. Christ performs miracles and they accuse him of getting his power from the devil. What's the point of miracles if they don't bring a person to repentance?
>>1280388
I think your missing their point. I think they refer to the further the story is set back in time, the bigger the "fish" was. Tall tales are easiest to spin the further the audience is removed.
>christian greek hoplite
>christian native american
>christian samurai
>christian whatever the fuck that guy on the right with a big shield is
>>1283174
christian samurais were actually a thing.
The rest just means these people were converted at some point.
>>1283112
This. The Pharisees watched Jesus do miracles and it enraged them to murder.
>>1283187
What kind of gay samurai converted to cuckianity? I bet they sucked at war and sucked cocks.
>>1283201
I think the lesson from this is that the Jews are just an entire race of bastards. "Stone-hearted people" indeed.
>>1283228
Stiff necked and stubborn people indeed. Almost 2000 years later and they still can't admit they fucked up.
>>1283212
A few missionarys once incited a rebellion so some samurais joined too, some welded christian crosses on their hemelts.
Got rekt tho, so japan stayed shinto.
Immanentize the Eschaton
you are god , if you do nothing then what will happen.
God's activity is all that keeps the universe in existence moment to moment. Our continued existence is pretty good evidence of his continuing concern.
As for why miracles don't occur, who's to say that they don't? They're signs and wonders given by grace, though, not proofs that God owes you to follow him, so it's not clear that God needs to present them in circumstances that answer to you. As I recall in his time on earth he rather despised those who only wanted a magic show.
For the purposes of enjoying the good he has in store, he has given us all we need: the church, which preserves his revelation, and a human nature, to receive it. The real answer to the problem of sin and death is the supreme miracle of Christ, and the new heaven and earth he will bring that will not pass away.
>>1282735
So this is a thing that is putting a test on your believe.
For me it was during the time in germany when many priests molested children and the church didn't do anything about it.
I decided to step out of church and lived a life without god until it hit me so hard that my life is utter shit if I have no trust in god. It doesn't matter how or what happened, I just say it will hit you if you leave his path.
It's all a test imo. This girl is set on a path, a gruesome and maybe short life, she has the chance to believe in god until she is released from her mortal hell.
This priest which has everything and lives a perfect life has other test layed upon him, earthly desires like money and woman maybe. Idk.
I believe everyone must do the right thing in good or bad situations. Is it easy ? No. Will it be rewarded? I believe yes
>>1285062
So in other words you only believe in god because then you realize life is pointless.
>>1285070
You only believe in god because otherwise you realize life is pointless*
>>1285077
No I don't think so. Living like an animal will teach you a lesson, or maybe not, it depends on you. Anyway you make an experience. It's not pointless
>>1279988
he hasnt, he is control of everything, including when you die, are you ready for it
>>1285077
You know God exists Romans 1, and you hate him
>>1279988
this image is absolute shit. why do samurais, ancient romans, arabs, WEWUZgyptians, horned vikings (extra triggered), native americans and ancient greeks all bow before brunette aragorn?
>>1282847
Pillars of salt or fire.
Seas being split.
Resurrection.
Immortality.
Creation out of nothing.
You know, miracles.
Why is the Tree of Gondor emblazoned on Jesus' clothes?
>>1287584
Because Middle Earth is actually hell.
>>1280407
>Why would god make nature and a natural balance if He's going to break it up to impress some edgy atheist
Same reason why Yhwh seemed so eager to break his own laws to impress some primitive tribals and - later on - some backwards goatfherders in Biblical times. Supposedly, anyways.
>>1287524
Because there were instances of samurais, ancient romans, arabs, WEWUZgyptians, horned vikings (extra triggered), native americans and ancient greeks who converted to Christianity?
>>1279988
>How do you reason your god or gods inactivity in recent years?
All activity is God's activity. There is no activity beyond God. It's not God that's the problem, it's your perspective and idea what you think God SHOULD do, not what God actually does.
>Perhaps they have moved on from our world and are creating another?
There is no they. Only one. It can't move on from itself. It can easily make another.
>Maybe they are waiting to see where we go as a humanity?
The seeds have been planted long before humanity, and will continue to grow long after humanity is gone.
>>1280148
well, I personally think the miracle stories are a minor point to Holy books. They distract, but they appeal to the masses. Either way, they teach the lessons they need to teach.
If the miracles did happen, then it's because you have to think of humanity as a child. The younger humanity was, the more active the parent (God) had to be in it's life. Soon, the child leaves, and needs independence to live a normal and healthy life.
Or, the stories were great, things like logical men standing against massive pagan emperors and kings who thought themselves divine, holding back humanity with their pagan traditions that disregarded logic and reason and science. Then prophets arise speaking the truth.
Think of it like this. The story of the prophet Lut, telling the people of Sodom to stop partying so much. They don't listen, and they self destruct. The city has no food, no medicine, everyone has AIDS and Herpes, and it dies. but most people in history wouldn't find appeal to this story. God raining down fire is a metaphor to capture the hearts and minds of the illiterate masses.
Today, though, we can easily understand the lessons being taught by these stories, without the need for a miracle. If you think of the city of Sodom as a part of God, then yes, God destroyed it, because God destroyed a part of itself, because the nature of God is what it is. You party too much and have anonymous sex with multiple partners, you die of AIDS.
Religions need to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. Christian Europe was flawed and short sighted in their interpretations of the bible, but it doesn't mean the truth cant be extracted from it.
>>1279988
What is this image supposed to convey?
>>1287649
yeah sure i'll go with that excuse
>>1282753
Why does it happen so frequently to monks and nuns?
>>1287753
Because they live in a closed community.
>>1280432
so youre saying that god did do something in recent times?
>>1279988
god is dead
>>1280426
no you didnt
>guise, all activity is God's activity, because he's God. The mere fact of things happening proves the existence and activity of God. Isn't that obvious? Isn't that not circular at all?
