What is Fascism? Let's try to define it, /his/
Was the Comintern right, and it's just a violently reactionary stain of capitalism?
Can it only be applied to Mussolini's government?
Were Nazis fascist, or was their ideology too hung up on race?
Is Fascism just a buzzword that describes any ideology that opposes Marxism, regardless of their policies beyond that?
Can fascism exist in our Postmodern world?
Post your answers. Post your questions. Spam Mosley, if you'd like. But let's hash out a definition of the most controversial ideology of the 20th century
Shameless self bump
>>1268250
anti-commie, anti-"capitalist" (in the marxist sense of the capitalist class, not the free market system or private ownership), pro-military, pro-expansion, authoritarian
there, that's literally it
the sooner you realize the fascists made shit up as they went along the better
All I have to go by is this desu:
https://pseudoerasmus.com/2015/05/03/fascism-left-or-right/
"All actually-existed fascist states repressed labour unions, socialists, and communists. Despite the worker-friendly rhetoric of fascists, they in actual power regimented labour in such a way as to please any strike-breaking capitalist of the 19th century. The Nazis, for example, forced workers into a single state-controlled trades union (DAF), which controlled wage growth and prevented striking and wage arbitration. Businesses (some, not even most), by contrast, were given incentives to consolidate into Morgan-style industrial trusts as shareholers and engage in contractual relations as monopolists or near-monopolists with other trusts and with the state."
>>1268353
So basically vaguely anti-marxist, vaguely populist, and ultimately meaningless outside if the context of whatever bullshit Benny was pushing on a given day.
>>1268365
Fascists were against communist influence in unions so banning unions doesn't mean they were against workers, they saw themselves as representatve of all classes (they were against class struggle). Unions were considered redundant. Besides, didn't they take measures that benefit workers, like Hitler giving workers cruise vacations?
>>1268353
For commies, private owners of the means of production ARE the capitalist class.
>>1268353
>Pro expansion
If I recall correctly, Mosley advocated maintaining the empire rather than expanding.
>My specific brand of fascism had never been tried
>>1268250
Fascism is not being a cuck.
>>1268569
>dying for nothing but the petty ambition of some warlord
sounds like a cuck to me desu
>>1268345
Mussolini is probably the most definitive irl cartoon villian
by the way, does anybody have a picture of his headquarters?
>>1268463
Maybe, even so wages were stagnant according to the source, and the Nazis didn't mind workers working for the sake of the state-capitalist alliance.
But hey, if you get the workers to accept thier shitty condition as "needed by the state", they might start to believe it.
I have little knowledge about this topic, considering that actual socialist and communist parties during weimar had like a constant 30% of votes, I wouldn't be surprised if alot of workers knew that they were getting cucked by Hitler but accepted it for "the sake of stability" or whatever, but I'm probably wrong.
Fascists always sounded to me like they were trying to keep the country from exploding by being like a political duct tape.
>>1268569
Trust /pol/ to up the quality of discussion.
Question:
So how is modern China not fascist?
Not even saying that's a bad thing, damn better than the Maoist hell on earth they had going in the 1960s.
>>1268584
>>1268584
I wouldn't be surprised if cartoon villains were inspired by him, his whole story fits. He wasn't as much of an edgy fucker as Hitler but he was still undeniably evil, probably due to being retarded.
Fascism is kinda like giving all your freedoms to wall street and then wonder why they start persecuting random races.
>>1268250
Militarization of the state and it's people against the subversion of a foreign body, Bolshevist or otherwise. It's a reactionary movement that developed to counteract Communism. It can be socialistic, but most fascist states simply fuse the power of the state and the corporation into one overarching entity, allowing the fascists to use the entirety of the states resources at their disposal to how they see fit. Fascism is inherently militaristic, it glorifies war and conflict as the struggle between nations. It admires Empires, and expansionism is often a key component of Fascism. Nazism is a subset of fascism that focused on the concept of racial purity and strongly supported eugenics.
Essentially, Fascisms main goal is to eliminate barriers towards the unification of people like nobility, religion or ethnicity, much like Socialism in this regard. only Fascism seeks to unify people to the health and vitality of a nation, rather than towards worldwide revolution.
>>1268580
>being a footsoldier pleb and not a warlord
Classic lefty ressentiment.
>>1268530
Mosleys brand of Fascism is weird desu. It had a lot of ideas that made it different from contemporary fascism.
>>1268603
Sounds superior to democratic degeneracy desu
>>1268584
>>1268613
It certainly had appeal yes. If you supported authoritarianism at the cost of personal freedom, then Fascism would sound very lucrative.
The only problem is all the death and suffering you will cause as a result of your expansionist war.
>>1268612
I would imagine that was due to Britain already being king of the hill, as opposed to other fascist movements in countries that were second stringers
>>1268619
>sound very lucrative
Not really. (((People))) who judge systems according to how lucrative they are tend to prefer either (((democracy))) or (((Communism))).
>>1268250
Fascism is taking a loan from a bank to buy a gun in order to rob the same bank.
>>1268633
It's the principle of the idea that made people enamored with it. Look at /pol/ for example. The buzzwords they use like shill and degeneracy are all taken directly from fascist rhetoric exposed a century before, and that rhetoric appeals to many people.
>>1268658
These are sometimes buzzwords, but I think degeneracy is a real phenomenon in Western countries today and not one that I would dismiss lightly.
>>1268667
How would you objectively define degeneracy? Where does something go from "acceptable" to "degenerate"?
>>1268673
Language doesn't work that way.
>>1268681
Then explain to me what you think is degeneracy?
>>1268692
Go consult a dictionary. Either we're having a discussion in English or we're not.
>>1268681
Language doesn't really work at all
>>1268700
For you
>>1268250
Fascism is a buzzword today, nothing else. It was good almost a century ago
>>1268250
>Were Nazis fascist, or was their ideology too hung up on race?
No, the Nazis were not fascist but their race theories had nothing to do with it.
Fascists were far right and built their society on hierarchy (state corporatism) while the Nazis built theirs on egality and positioned themselves far more left on the political spectrum.
Inb4:
>People were not equal in the Third Reich. Muh Jews.
Egality in the sense that their societal structures were built around associations (Vereine, e.g. Hitlerjugend), while Mussolini built his on social classes. This might also be the reason why the alliance between Germany and Italy was never a very strong one.
In fact the people involved in the 20 July plot were all from the far right and were essentially fascists trying to restore their aristocracy and old social classes.
>>1268697
de·gen·er·a·cy
dəˈjen(ə)rəsē/
noun
the state or property of being degenerate.
?
>>1268742
I think the premise that Nazis were fascists is wrong, a notion even the article itself acknowledges.
>>1268753
That's right, that definition of degeneracy presupposes that you already know the definition of degenerate.
Ie it presupposes that you're not an obtuse cunt who asks for every single word to be defined for you when any fluent English speaker can understand them. Fucking take a course in linguistics.
>>1268775
I'm asking you what you define as degenerate in a societal context you dumbass. If you can't answer that simple question, then fuck off.
>>1268771
In terms of economics he says that they were "clearly capitalistic", and has all sorts of fun examples about the goverment bargaining with companies.
Maybe in the more societal sense, Nazis were wierd among fascists.
I wonder how associations in the nazi state influenced things.
I believe that in a realistic use of the term, Fascism can only be applied to a few governments that emerged after world war, namely italy.
But in the "buzzword" sense of the term, all it refers to is any nationalist authoritarian, and sometime (far)-right on the political spectrum
>>1268799
Language is based on use, not definitions, dumbass. If you don't speak English you should fuck off.
>>1268799
de·gen·er·ate
adjective
dəˈjen(ə)rət/
1.
having lost the physical, mental, or moral qualities considered normal and desirable; showing evidence of decline.
"a degenerate form of a higher civilization"
Given that current societal values would be considered immoral by previous standards, it is not inaccurate to describe modern society as degenerate. Whether or not that is a bad thing is subjective
>>1268840
I don't know why you're bothering to help him out here. People who ask for definitions of commonly understood terms are pretty much always trying to get into nitpicking semantics and sophistry and have no intention of engaging sincerely with the topic.
>what is X
>can you, like, define it?
>if you define it I disagree with your definition because semantic reasons
>hahaha if you don't define it, that proves it's not real
>hahahaha I win internet argument hahahaha
>>1268855
Honestly, I looked it up out of my own interest; the word doesn't get used much in my day to day. Degenerate gets thrown around so much on this shitty site, I decided to see if there is any merit in its meme usage
>>1268876
>the word doesn't get used much in my day to day
Don't play this game. People don't hear or use the vast majority of their vocabularies in their day to day activities. That doesn't mean they don't understand the terms.
>>1268250
>define fascism
A hilarious combination of complete ignorance about dialectics and hardcore fedora tipping
>>1268819
>Maybe in the more societal sense, Nazis were wierd among fascists.
The only way to define political systems like fascism is by looking at the societal structures they produced. And the societal structures were fundamentally different than those of national socialism, like I mentioned above.
Even the author acknowledges that the Nazis were in fact very different and Sui generis. Which raises the question why he even categorizes them as fascists. Possibly because it is educational canon.
>>1268832
>I believe that in a realistic use of the term
What is a "realistic" use of the term?
>>1268965
"Not a pack of bullshit thought up but the fourth meaning if the Comintern"
In all seriousness, the word has degraded to mean anything to the speakers right, so realistic would mean supported by actual history
>>1268917
This tbqh
Try this
>>1269200
>Man as a rising beast
>No Hobbes
Pretty shitty senpai
