Why (barring a few exceptions) did it take so long for humans to realize that slavery is an immoral practice that should be outlawed?
It completely robs someone of their dignity and humanity... I mean come on...
>>1266449
its nice not having to work
Because they could get away with it
>>1266449
Really makes you think...
Seriously though it's because robbing someone of their dignity and humanity used to just be a way of dickwaving, especially in ancient times. Once liberalism popped up is when people started to actually care about things.
>>1266449
Humans have a near limitless capacity for rationalization
>>1266449
Nobody cares if its immoral.
Up until the industrialization nearly all work and production was done by human muscle power.
When we got other means to power out production, we moved away from human muscle power, and thus we could now justify releasing the slaves.
Basically slavery was okay for as long as it was needed, when it was no longer needed we ended it for morality's sake.
Other institutions like church (made largely obsolete by science) or marriage (made largely obsolete by contraceptives) will in time be considered to be immoral nonsense that our grand children will wonder took so long to be abolished.
>>1266449
Long?
There was no slavery in Feudal Japan, Imperial China, or Medieval Europe (sans Eastern European Niggers and Italian).
It was only ever permanent in Central Asia, Middle East, and India.
>>1266469
Slavery as the idea of the state forcing people who can't pay for their debt with goods to instead pay for it with labor is more than 5000 years old. And thats only what we know from evidence, possibly dates back further.
I imagine as soon as people realized that they can stay in one spot and work the land, and that more people working a big plot yields better harvest than few people working a small one, there was the idea of ownership, property, and with it someone owing someone else.
Not hard to go from there to "since you can't pay me in grain, you will work my land for 5 weeks".
Slavery was never abandoned for moral reasons. It was ended because it was no longer economically expedient to have a population that competed with proles and did not contribute to the consumer economy.
>>1266449
>to realize that slavery is an immoral practice that should be outlawed?
For most of history it was simply a natural state of social order and the way society worked it was necessary to get stuff done. There wasn't the economic, technological, and bureaucratic systems in place nor even developed to make slavery non-essential. Humans have long realised the unfairness of slavery since granting a slave freedom was considered a wonderful thing to do from both benefactor/owner/buyer and for the slave.
>>1266449
Nearly all civilizations of any accomplishment required slavery as an economic necessity. It's kind of hard to build great wonders and feed millions in an iron age society without some measure of indentured servitude, be it economic slavery, chattel slavery or serfdom.
>>1266455
This couldn't be less true. People have been decrying the injustices of slavery well before what you'd consider liberalism came about.
>>1266469
As fat as I remember Tuetonic order used batls as slaves and Grand duchy of Lithuania used to raid around for slaves and loot. I read that even english prince (future king) who participated in crusade there took home 100 slaves.
You now realize that almost everything you own was made by slave labour over in Asia.
Sent from my iPhone
>>1266498
How true is that?
Slavery still exists today in Africa.
>>1266449
You do realize that slaves had it always better than any unemploed and even employed person?
>>1266839
Slavery, if you define it as an institution forcing people to work, can be argued to exist in any non-welfare state.
>>1266848
>>1266449
>...I mean come on...
Go to bed, le 2016 man.
It seems that, once the rise of Industrialism happened around the start of the 1800s the instances of common slavery dropped all over the world in favour of industrialism.
So I guess slavery was the only option to get shit done on a massive scale for large states and Empires prior to machines.
>>1266570
>This couldn't be less true. People have been decrying the injustices of slavery well before what you'd consider liberalism came about.
yeah, but liberals and libertarians are the ones who created the middle class which spend its time >muh Human Rights, while dwelling in hedonism (because the rightful goal of the liberals and libertarians is to make hedonism is the most legal and the most moral)
>>1266934
>but liberals and libertarians are the ones who created the middle class which spend its time
Uh huh.
That is of course completely correct.
>>1266899
There we go. This, this and this again.
As well, there was friction between free workers and slaves from antiquity all the way through the American Civil War.
>dey terk er jerbs
>>1266941
We might have a bit of a problem in the future when the robots again take another section of work from those low skilled workers. Supermarkets getting automated checkouts for example
>>1266839
It still exists all over the world even in Europe and America. It may not be legal in places but that doesn't mean it isn't happening in the murky underworld of criminal activity and human trafficking.
>>1267084
>Supermarkets getting automated checkouts for example
Those automated checkouts never work well though and you get so many people cheating them too.
>unidentified item in the bagging area!
>ring up X item as Y item
They certainly won't be a threat to supermarket till workers anytime soon.
>>1267144
Well shit maybe I'm just naive but so far I haven't heard of many problems involving them in my nation.
The only people that seem to go for the alternative are people that want to have a talk, or cant figure out how to use the system. Otherwise they are way more efficient.
>>1267155
Its efficient for the store that doesn't have to pay anyone to bag groceries because they expect their customers to do it for themselves.
>>1266469
India never approved of slavery, even in ancient times
>>1266449
>immoral
Morality is subjective. A few years ago homosexuality was seen as immoral. In my country it was an illegal act until the 1980's. Just because slavery offends your sensibilities in the present, don't assume people raised with that system felt the same way
>>1266934
Stay off /pol/. It's melting your brain and now you're just posting bullshit.
>>1266449
When will humans realize that equality is an immoral practice that should be outlawed?
It completely robs someone of their dignity and humanity... I mean come on...
>>1267660
you smelled the /pol/cat too, I see
>>1266449
They knew it was morally wrong. The transatlantic slave trade was started by Christians. They couldn't have possibly not seen something wrong with it.
The problem was that it was profitable. And when profit comes many people lose interest in Religion.
>>1266449
>immoral
Whack-a-spook.
>>1266899
I wonder why though. Maybe this arangment was easy to control or structure given the basic means of pre-industrial societies?
>>1266449
slaves were either criminals or were captured during war
>>1266449
It's still done today in Africa.
It wasn't about morality, it was about there being no other option to sustain fast production until machines came about.
If machines had been perfected earlier slavery would've ended earlier.
>>1266491
>Slavery as the idea of the state forcing people who can't pay for their debt with goods to instead pay for it with labor is more than 5000 years old. And thats only what we know from evidence, possibly dates back further.
States did way worst things to criminals than enslaving them. I guess that people was less concerned with slavery and more with skinning alive, but I may be wrong.
>>1266848
That's exaggerated.
>>1266848
Yeah as a minimum wage worker it sure sucks getting payed for my work and not being beaten to near death. Especially if I was a woman, it would be absolute hell to not be raped on a regular basis.
Yep. Slavery is so damn great.
>>1266449
A big part of it, at least in America and Europe, were pseudo-scientific justifications of the inferiority of nonwhites. Phrenology was a big one. And you can find some very famous thinkers (Hume, for one) who claimed that Africans were more bestial, less intelligent, etc than other "species" of man.
Essentially, racists have always had some dehumanizing pseudoscience to justify treating minorities like shit.
>>1266941
There was friction between free worker and machine too though.
This is an easy one
>Get in a fight with enemies
>Defeat them
>"What if instead of killing them all, we made them work for us for free?"
>Enemies get to live
>Everybody wins
Its just that easy
>>1267426
Where you from?
>>1268920
>Tfw this is the first time I've heard someone say "pseudoscience" without using it as a stupid word to invalidate gender identity/intersexuality.
>>1266570
Sounds to me like something resulting from overpopulation and not genuine need. Small communities, nomadic or agrarian can survive without slavery or servivtude so long as they don't drain their environment of natural resources, and work hard enough.
What happens is one group of people goes to war with another group, there is an arms race and a race to outbreed the other group, and soon enough both groups are unsustainable and we get what is called "civilization" where both tormentors and tormented are forced to live together apart from and in spite of the environment.
What's worse is this process is probably inevitable since uneducated people living primitive lives never realize this is happening when they are in the midst of it.
>>1269027
I'm sorry that's the only context you've ever heard the word "pseudoscience".
Pic related.
>>1266449
Because the modern notion of Free Labor didn't even exist in the western world until the Industrial Revolution. Work in which people chose their employers voluntarily, could quit at any time, and in which they were motivated by wages rather than beatings wasn't common until the 19th century.
Before that people would think of slavery as "well gee that sucks, but that's the luck of the draw." Slavery being thought of as something actually 'good' for slaves was also a 19th century invention (for the Anglo-American world), and was justified through racism.
>>1266449
>Why (barring a few exceptions) is it taking so long for humans to realize that animal abuse is an immoral practice that should be outlawed?
>>1267398
Yeah you had the caste system which might as well be slavery. Fuck the dalits, they deserved it was the mindset.
>>1269010
The land of booze and leprechauns
>>1266848
Assuming you're talking about the Atlantic Slave Trade
No, what they had for better or worse is more stability.
>>1268860
Slaves by definition weren't fans of their owners.
With the rising industrialization more and more advanced machinery were adopted by plantation owners and shit.
Where before they had fairly simple machines, moved by brute force, now more complex, more expensive and more delicate machinery were used which needed people who knew how to use them.
Even if you had slaves who were trained in those sorts of things, if one of them just decides that they want to ruin their owners they could simply destroy the machines and set back the owner's business by a lot and destroying a very very expensive piece of work. In Brazil it was common to hear about Slaves who killed themselves by throwing their bodies at expensive machinery
Plantation owners soon found that workers who were trying to find work to survive had far less motivation to try to fuck their bosses compared to slaves.
>>1266491
>Slavery as the idea of the state forcing people who can't pay for their debt with goods to instead pay for it with labor
That's Indentured Servitude, which, while still bad for the servant, is finite. They gain their freedom, unlike the slaves
>>1269733
b8/10 almost considered not finishing my ham sandwich
>>1266449
Industrialisation rendered it unnecessary.
>>1266449
Work. Buy man, he does work. You don't have to work.
Sex. Buy woman, get sex. Woman has daughter, get more sex or sell her to someone for sex. Even Thomas Jefferson...
>It completely robs someone of their dignity and humanity...
So! Our species is good at that.
>>1266449
There's literally nothing wrong with slavery
>>1266750
Not at all.
t. O'l Dixie.
>>1268927
Only when they fell in.
>>1268945
This.
>>1270578
Consider it what you want, to me you're just as evil as a slave owner, because I care about it just as much. I think it's a good example to make you think about what morality really means.
>>1270594
This is sally said by the people who think they would be the slaver, not the slavee.
>>1270430
lol that's if they survive.
If they die though then you may not need to even pay them at the end since they are you know... dead.
>>1271027
>tfw millions of mice get poisoned to grow crops.
>>1271038
Tbh plants are the only truley innocent things, animals of all types kill, sometimes even tourture their prey
>>1266449
Because I do not think that morality was priority for people who owned slaves. Most or many of the people who are rich have a high interest in accumulating money, and may be disinterested and reject the philosophies and ethics of life. Anyways, it seems that slavery was abolished for the sake of practical purposes, Abraham Lilcoln did say that he would have been okay with slavery if the U.S. could be kept together with it in peace, but it couldn´t because to many people realized that slavery was wrong and wanted equality.
Anyways, we are not too far past slavery now, the manufactuaring conditions in China and other countries are deplorable, suicide nets outside of the factory are giant neon signs that something is wrong with their working conditions, yet most people are okay with buying products made in China. Slavery has merely been outsourced to tenantfarmer like systems that exploit human necessity on a mass international scale to compensate for the loss of iron chain and ball slavery.
>>1271050
>truly
>innocent
>things
>>1271027
I think you mispelled altruists
>>1271038
>tfw 2/3 of those crops are grown for livestock feed
>>1266934
>nonsensical post
>pro trump image
it never fails.
>>1271071
Dogs are not sentient, we just like them a lot. Only humans and maybe, MAYBE a few types of apes and aquatic mammals but that's it
>>1266449
People for a long time already realized slavery was an immoral practice that should be outlawed... when it concerned their own ethnic/religious kin. What took a lot longer was finally agreeing this should extend to everyone, including the 'barbarians' of the world you didn't like.
>>1271071
>tfw 2/3 of those crops are grown for livestock feed
touche, obviously meat is less sustainable than crops, but some area's aren't suitable for crops, see kangaroo harvesting in Australia (helps the population to not exceed carrying capacity and reduces deaths by starvation from overpopulation.)
Industrial revolution.
The only right answer. Without slavery industrialisation in the ancient world was either impossible or impractical, as systems had to be designed by river side by that one guy who knew how and wasn't telling anyone his secrets.
This is why the internet is one of the industrial revolutions, no more secrets and now everyone can build systems that don't require slaves.
>6 posts for indust
I'm mildly impressed, but only because it's the only right answer.
>>1271087
>Experiencing sensation, thought, or feeling.
Sure, dogs can't be happy, have ideas and recall things from the past.
That's actually how slavery happened. It was hardly thinkable that slaves had any kind of consciousness, especially when it comes to the Atlantic slave trade.
>>1271099
Wait they kill kangaroos in Australia? Rude t b h
>>1271119
Roo sausages are tasty m8.
>>1266449
same reason you cucks still enslave and kill animals.
same reason you fags still buy clothes manufactured by child slaves.
same reason you idiots still blast tons of co2 into the atmosphere.
It is fucking easy if nobody stops you
>>1271087
>Dogs are not sentient
Full Definition of sentient
1
: responsive to or conscious of sense impressions <sentient beings>
2
: aware
3
: finely sensitive in perception or feeling
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sentient
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canine_intelligence
>Studies have shown that dogs display many behaviors associated with intelligence. They have advanced memory skills. For example, a border collie, "Chaser", learned the names of over 1,000 objects and retrieved them by verbal command. Dogs can use such memory skill to make inferences. For example, another border collie Rico, learned the labels of over 200 items and then inferred the names of novel items by exclusion. That is, he identified and retrieved those novel items immediately and also 4 weeks after the initial exposure. Dogs are able to read and react appropriately to human body language such as gesturing and pointing, and to understand human voice commands. Dogs demonstrate a theory of mind by engaging in deception.
>>1271119
Kangaroos are considered a pest. There's millions of them.
>>1266469
>Imperial China,
There was a tonne of slavery in china.
>>1271664
>Ton
Meme.
Corvee labor and penal servitude isn't slavery. Not to mention you can buy/sell slaves in Chinkdom.
>>1270314
plenty of house slaves in the US liked their masters despite their inherently unequal relationship
>Why (barring a few exceptions) did it take so long for humans to realize that slavery is an immoral practice that should be outlawed?
It completely robs someone of their dignity and humanity... I mean come on..
Spooky. Very spooky. You're talking as if not practicing slavery is something innate to us humans, and when we practiced slavery we were going against our "nature" and then suddenly realized "omg it's bad". Slavery etc are just a manifestation of human "opportunism" from another time - see a change to bring wealth, power and greatness? Seize it.
>>1273547
Admitedly i did use hyperbole, but odds are House Slaves weren't going to work on sugar & corn plantations directly.
What i'm mostly trying to say is that putting someone you constantly whip into work to work with very expensive machines isn't a sound plan.
>>1266449
Because it makes you a shit load of money.
