God is real.
Yup, and the majority of the board is aware of it.
http://www.strawpoll.me/10407759/
>>1265299
Digits confirm?
>>1265333
I am converting
Who just calls my name ?
>>1265343
Proof?
>>1265299
Socialism will win.
>>1265545
But anon, the biggest trap is the atheism meme.
>>1265567
Deities are a cognitive bias and are an entirely human concept. Humans created it.
>>1265545
>fedora-tier atheist having opinions about cognitive biases again
O I am laffing
>>1265603
>insult the character rather than arguing
It's like you theists never bothered to read the sticky.
God is pretty fucking human, so it's obvious that we came up with it. A hat isn't a response.
>>1265333
3 post with trips of 3s, nothing has strengthened my faith as much
>>1265603
>fedora-tier
lel literally any atheist is fedora-tier to you, why bother to make the distinction?
or do they only become fedora tippers when they provide even the most basic elaboration on why they they don't believe in a god?
>>1265801
>le humans need le gods to make sense of le world
>im so le enlightened and le rational
i've been hearing the same tryhard "oh look at me let me wax philosophic on human nature cause I read dawkins" twaddle since 2004. you're all cringey af
>>1265894
>those pathetic straw men
Confirmed for not reading any real arguments for atheism.
>>1265330
Well of course if you kick all of the religious tards off to their own board it will show that most of the board is religious tards.
>>1265299
Metatron here, I can confirm.
>>1265299
And God doesn't reveal itself via divine revelation
>>1265907
I've read 'em all and they're trash. They debunk only the most toothless caricature of God as a daft old man in the sky who just wants you to have a good time.
>>1265994
Define God and list all of the attributes.
>>1265994
Lay out your conception of God, please.
>>1265994
you obviously don't know what you are talking about. there is nothing to even debunk about a god in the sky. you can pull all the same tricks to make him in the sky yet also immaterial, invisible, etc. it seems the only argument you know for atheism is the fedoras spouting "muh sky daddy"
real arguments against christianity: quite simply the lack of a solid argument for the existence of God, the massive amount of archeological evidence that contradicts the narrative of the bible until you reach kings and chronicles, the fact that the gospels are not eyewitness accounts, and the fact that nearly every "fulfilled prophecy" in the gospels is hogwash (such as the emmanuel prophecy which was fulfilled in Isaiah and had nothing to do with the Messiah), and the Midrash-tier "prophecies" from Psalms 22 that make up Jesus's crucifixion scene, showing that the author was not faithfully recording a historical event but making a bible fanfic more or less
>>1265994
>Disprove god
>Hey guys disprove an argument without any proof backing it up
>nonreligious isn't an option
the poll was rigged at the start, all options use a morally truth-apt base.
>>1266085
Why is your god literally dirt?
>>1266085
That is the Absolute, an impersonal force, not a deity. Might as well not call it God since it isn't omniscient or omnipresent or omnibenevolent.
>>1265299
God knows that knowledge of his existence basically corrupts the human brain, his best creation that we know of. We honestly wouldn't progress as a civilization ever again if god appeared to everyone.
>>1265330
>19 Jewish people on this board
>>1266115
>his best creation that we know of
God seems to have the most concern for humanity. I wonder why that is.
>>1266121
20 now
>>1266122
Is that sarcasm? I don't believe in God, it's just a theoretical reason why God might have stopped talking to people.
>>1266132
Yea.
Prove it
>>1265299
Proofs, tovarisch?
>>1266149
>>1266261
>For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools.
Romans 1:19-22
>>1267491
>You know my worldview is right, how could you not?
Try again, Christcuck.
>>1265299
I disagree.
>>1267491
Claiming to be right doesn't make you right
Your verse boils down to little more 'I'm right because I say so'
>>1267491
>Here's the proof of the existence of God: the bible. And truth is what is written in the bible, for it is the word of God.
Wait a minute, something doesn't seem right with this logic, I wonder what it is...
Pascals wager is the best way to convert atheists.
>>1265330
>5% of the board are sunni muslims
>>1267633
Honest question, no bait.
Has Pascal's Wager ever actually converted anyone?
>>1267637
Maybe at the time it was proposed. I don't see how it could convert someone nowadays, since it has been debunked in a myriad of ways.
>>1267646
What's the debunk?
>>1267646
What's interesting is Pascal was aware of the number most of the "debunks". He did acknowledge there were other Gods to pick from but he said atheism is a sure-fire lose. He didn't really feel the need to address other religions because they simple were not on most people's radar. He also acknowledges you cannot 'force' yourself to beleive and that a God would probably not be fooled by a fake conversation. To get around this he said you should basically go to church, pretend to pray, pretend to think it's really, and hope that it just some how clicks from habit.
I find it interesting that Christians think Pascal's wager is an atomic bomb when Pascal himself thought it wasn't very good and already pointed out his own theory was heavily flawed.
>>1267676
The fact that "skeptics heaven" is a possibility means atheism isn't a sure fire loss
It's worthless really. Dunno why people keep bringing it up
>>1267684
How is skeptics heaven a reality?
>>1267656
Since so many religions exist, picking one option renders you chance of winning about the same as anyone else's.
You assume that belief out of probability you get yourself in heaven.
You assume that you know exactly what your God wants.
You assume that following a certain religion doesn't cost anything (no effort).
The whole thing is just a massive appeal to fear.
Etc, etc.
>>1267708
There's plenty of religions but most of them are dead and not practiced by anyone. Why would they have a chance to succeed if they've died out? The sign of the truth is that it should have a chance to stay alive in this world for future generations.
>>1267701
I said it's a possibility. Like christian heaven.
Shit, there might be a heaven exclusive to sharks, or fictional characters.
>>1267729
Why do you say that? Maybe we don't know the truth.
>>1265722
Main problem with this is that via a terrible /his/ dubs thread we have already determined that it's either Islam or Arian Christianity specifically.
>>1267656
1. That it isn't a binary choice.
2. That believing in [Religion of choice] isn't always a neutral outcome if not true
3. That believing in [Religion of choice] isn't a zero cost investment
4. That Pascals Wager ist neutral for any and all participating parties
5. That nominally believing in [Religion of choice] is enough to attain the positive outcome.
6. That [Religion of choice] isn't necessarily accurate even if its god[s] is[are]
>>1267729
How many times have Christians pulled the "you can't comprehend God" card?
How do we know God would care if his religion failed? Or maybe he just really likes arecheology and wants only people that study dead religions to get in? Or maybe he's get a perverted sense of humor and intionally fucked up his own religion? Maybe ALL religions are fake and he put them here as a test? Maybe he has NEVER formed a religion.
It seems your "can't understand God" works against against you here.
Another bit of hypocracy. You say the sucess of a religion means it's real. Does that mean when Islam becomes the biggest religion in Europe it will prove Christianity is false? Or does the logic only apply when you like the outcome?
>>1267656
I don't know, do you think God will reward you for a false belief? Is rewards and benefits the core of Christianity, or do you think Christianity cares a little more about truly believing in its tenants, even if you lose your life because of it?
Pascal's Wager is literally the opposite of Christianity. It prefers on gain, benefits and rewards over beliefs, and sees belief as nothing more than a means for a reward, which is the exact opposite of what Christianity holds to be the single most important matter in the whole universe
>>1267729
>Why would they have a chance to succeed if they've died out?
Why not? How do you know?
But let's supposed you're right. How do you know that your religions isn't one of those? What if it dies out in the future?
Why do you assume that the real god is one of a religion that already came into existence?
>>1265330
http://www.strawpoll.me/10407759/
There wasn't an option that had something of ''''aware of...''''
I mean basically it is actually totally irresponsible to be a member of any of the religions. (Could depend on how you do it. But too often contrary beliefs are necessary)
>>1267746
God would have wanted to throw out the truth for us. Every creator feels that way.
>>1267774
Yes the most popular religion is the one which had the potential to appeal to the soul and did.
>>1267789
God will take into consideration that you tried to believe it as the truth. It's all about the intentions and the actions. If your intentions favour god why would he punish you for it?
>>1267804
If my religion dies out so be it, it wasn't the one and I chose the wrong one.
>>1267876
>God will take into consideration that you tried to believe it as the truth.
No he won't, because that's specifically not a concern if you start to believe because of Pascal's Wager. Pascal's Wager is specifically about the rewards you get from the belief, not the belief itself. Effectively, if you 'believe' because of Pascal's Wager, you're still an atheist, you just pretend not to in order to get rewarded for your pretending.
>>1267876
>If my religion dies out so be it, it wasn't the one and I chose the wrong one.
If you can even conceive your religion as wrong, why do you follow it? Doesn't your god speak to you and fills your heart with warmth, love and whatnot? Don't you have faith in him? How can it be wrong then?
>this board is 58% theist
Sorry atheists but you have to go back.
>>1267876
>God would have wanted to throw out the truth for us. Every creator feels that way.
How could you know how a god feels?
God is dead and we killed him
>>1267936
God can't die. He invented death.
>>1267936
I don't know what you're talking about, I never killed anyone. Please stop with these lies.
>>1267876
Something being popular means it's easy for the LCD to digest. The idea that something is true or great because a great many people find comfort in it is the very defination of herd mentality.
>>1267936
>killed
>him
Kek.
>>1267912
>A 40/60 split where the 60 percent majority don't agree with any other faction within the majority
>The largest faction (catholicism) isn't even half of the atheist percentage.
>The 60% majority coalition isn't even entirely monotheist
I could just as easily go:
This board is 74% non-Christian
Sorry Christians, looks like it's time for you to leave.
>>1267962
What does this quote have to say about certain egyptian gods?
>>1267989
You mean the ones depicted as humans with animal features?
>>1267989
>What does this quote have to say about certain egyptian gods?
That some people were smart enough to not make things so obvious.
>>1267936
>>1265299
How to argue against atheists on 4chan
>call them fedora tippers
>do not address any of their points, just strawman them
>make ironic use of "le" to as an attempt to draw attention away from your inability to argue your own points
>ad hominem, after ad hominem, after ad hominem - it always works and none of the people on your side of the argument will call you out for it
>claim that all arguments against religion are moronic, but without naming one or saying why any of them are.
>don't bring up any arguments for God because the big three are fucking retarded (Ontological, Cosmological, Teleological) and will loose you the argument pretty much immediately due to modern science and the principle of Occam's Razor.
>>1268011
So some woman on youtube said something stupid (doesn't even realize God is dead=/=nihilism). There for the thing she is discussing is stupid.
If I were to find an example of a Christian saying something stupid would this mean all Christians are stupid by association?
Why do you all subscribe yourself to one specific religion (ignoring deists who are not in denial)? What gives you reason to believe that Jesus was the one true prophet of God and that Muhammad was not the last and most important?
>>1268011
I would
>>1268024
I always think it's strangely bizarre how Ocams Razor is invoked so by atheists when it's a concept from a theologian. I truely think there is a God and that he has a dark sense of humor. Enlightenment rationalism is actually partly related to things like Scholasticism. Francis Bacon was a devote Christian who laughed at atheism, he thought the scientific method would prove the earth was made in 6 literal days.
My pet theory is God did make Christianity but he also designed it to fail.
>>1265299
God is real, but what more can we say other than that?
Hey guys I'm a Christian.
>>1268045
Jesus died and rose from the dead. He defeated death.
Muhammed did not.
>>1268071
That he actually isn't, deist cuck
>>1268054
>My pet theory is God did make Christianity but he also designed it to fail.
And where does your concept of God comes from? Surely it has to come from your imagination since you don't seem to believe in religious teachings.
>>1265977
He would have to in order for us to know who he is.
>>1266115
Satanic rubbish.
>>1268045
Because of this verse in the bible, which the qur'an admits is the Word of God:
Galatians 1:8
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
>>1268110
What about the other religions?
>>1268138
All religions (religio) are systems of bondage made by men to attempt to reach up to, or be like, God.
As opposed to God becoming man and reaching down to us, that He might raise us up. As opposed to Jesus dying so that men might be free.
Eschew all religions and cling to Christ Jesus. He is our only hope.
>>1268078
>He rose from dead.
I'm confused, I thought people discussed actual history in this board.
>If I say it enough times it will be true
This is literally religion.
>>1268156
>Literally the best documented event in the ancient world dismissed due to normalcy bias.
>>1268189
>best documented event in the ancient world
>>1268189
>christcucks are this deluded
>>1268189
Christ cuck confirmed to have a sense of humour
>>1268189
>best documented event in the ancient world
>>1268189
The sad thing is people who believe this will consider any counterargument as actually supporting their argument.
-> backfire effect
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/
If you feel the holy spirit, and it feels so right, anyone who doubts you simply must be a liar. And since they are lying, you must be right!
Remember that one time that Nietzsche completely BTFO the entirety of christianity in 88 pages?
>>1268189
>m-muh normalcy bias
>>1268276
dat beard tho
>>1265299
Correction: Gods are real
>>1268189
>T. William Lane Craig.
You know what /his/ doesn't know? The futility of discussing topics with as much weight as religion on an online internet forum.
>>1268336
Good man.
The cruelty of atheism is hard to believe when man has no faith in the reward of good or the punishment of evil. There is no reason to be human. There is no restraint from the depths of evil which is in man. The communist torturers often said, 'There is no God, no Hereafter, no punishment for evil. We can do what we wish.' I have heard one torturer even say, 'I thank God, in whom I don't believe, that I have lived to this hour when I can express all the evil in my heart.' He expressed it in unbelievable brutality and torture inflicted on prisoners.”
― William Lane Craig
>>1268260
I would like to see the event in ancient history with more eyewitness accounts and more extant manuscripts.
That's what you would call "refutation".
>muh nobody can raise from the dead because I say so
doesn't count.
>>1268355
Wow what a fag. You believe just to witness retribution?
>>1268400
The cruelty of atheism, where you believe such a torturer does not deserve justice.
>>1268399
9/11
>>1268404
That's completely antithetical to Christianity. Solid belief is based on faith, not spite. Do you even read your own savior's book?
>>1268355
Only a religious apologist can make an assertion which contains baseless assumptions, straw mans, appeal to emotion and random testimonies, all densely packed like this.
>>1268087
All theories of God are contained in the mind. I understand God by observing the world. The thing with the Christian concept of God is that it can't do that, it's stuck trying to prove some lame ontological argument or arguing that a historical event happened (for instance the resurrection). If the divine really does have any influence on nature, you can spot it in nature.
>>1268355
Craig is basically telling us that he never outgrew the infantile morality step and he cannot imagine anyone going past that. This says a lot more about Craig than anything else. Pick related.
>>1268416
It's only contrary to your definition of Christianity.
Revelation 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, And You have given them blood to drink. For it is their just due.”
>>1268410
>9/11
>ancient world
>>1268399
Eyewitnesses can't be considered absolute proof of anything.
>>1268420
Yes, he's very good at exposing the atheist as a monster.
>>1268430
I get it. You think it infantile to believe in God.
And yet without God, there is no objective basis for morality.
Hence your argument refutes itself.
Have a blessed day!
>>1268441
Eh fair enough. I didn't see that part.
In the ancient world, probably something to do with Alexander, Caesar, or Confucius.
>>1268443
>Best recorded event in ancient history
>You: You can't count multiple eyewitness written reports!
>>1268447
He's good at trying to, I'll give you that.
>>1268455
That's absolutely correct.
>>1268439
That's pretty fucked up fampai.
>>1268451
Is your reading comprehension really that bad. Go look at the image kiddo.
And ultimatly there is no objective basis for morality with or without God. The presence of a punishment does not make an action bad, it just deters it. The whole idea of heaven/hell is just that God happens to have the biggest stick.
>>1265299
Deus Vult Amici Mei
>>1268455
>Best recorded event in ancient history
haha nice joke anon
>>1268455
What eye wittness reports? Certainly not the Gospels. Go look up Q source.
>>1268453
Caesar has 10 extant manuscript copies, the earliest of which is a thousand years after the event.
Alexander about 1500 years later, after the fact; don't have a number on how many extant manuscripts.
Confucius? I see two Han Dynasty bamboo analect manuscripts, about 300 years after the events. There could be more, of course. I just don't see them.
>>1268473
It's PG rated for the Revelation.
>>1268474
God is the objective basis for morality.
What He says is Good is Good, and what He says is Evil is Evil, and He enforces it from above us.
>>1268455
If "multiple eyewitness written reports" were this reliable it would also mean that UFOs, bigfoot, the loch ness monster, etc, are all true.
>>1268496
So how many times have you given away all your possessions to the poor?
>>1268496
So how's that work? Is there any logical connections that lead to this fact? So far all you have said that he has edicts and a big stick.
>>1268515
What God really means is a subjective interpretation. What just takes us back to morality being subjective.
>>1268529
>you're interpreting it wrong, guise!
>it's all subjective!
Oh please, stop with this bullshit. You people only do this when it's convenient to your point.
>>1268544
The point stands. If a line of text can be read multiple ways and there is no objective way to prove which is the correct reading than the message is subjective.
No one in this thread is claiming that this is a unique case to the bible. Any text where the meaning cannot be established objectivily is not objective text.
And as the annon pointed out the most obvious reading of the bible is that God wants you to sell EVERYTHING you own and give it to the poor. However I am sure you have your own subjective reading of the text which means something else.
>>1265299
Why it so important? it doesn't change anything, we still don't know nothing about him, and we do not know how to explore him.
>>1268496
Dictated morality is not morality. Its only rules and threats. Its subjective by your specific deity's choice, not objective.
Either god just arbitrarily decides on what to punish or condone, or god adheres to an external standart of whats right, and then that standart is above god.
Your idea of morality doesn't work either way.
Morality is objective because the way humans can prosper is not random. Not because some ruleset is imposed by force.
>>1268593
>mans can prosper is not random
Prosperity means different things to different people. Subjective.
>>1268593
>Morality is objective because the way humans can prosper is not random. Not because some ruleset is imposed by force.
Now that's the proper direction. Morality is centered in the real world and the consequences for actions.
Now here's the tricky bit? How does it all work out when what is prosperous for one group might make another group unprosoperous. Do we conclude that each group has it's own separate morality: objective but not universal? Or do you take it another way?
>>1268513
No clue why you think they're not.
>>1268515
How many times have I told you that I'm not a rich young Jewish ruler?
>>1268525
And some carrots, yes.
It works like this. You realize there is a God; you realize He gave His Law to mankind; you realize that His Law is impossible to keep perfectly, and you despair of ever being like Him.
And then in your despair you turn to God in repentance and ask for His grace and mercy, which He gives away freely.
>>1268399
There are actual eyewitness accounts of aliens and UFOs. And video.
There were no eyewitness accounts of a jesus existing. There exists no document that is written within a lifetime of the supposed existance of a "jesus christ", they are all anonymous, and written waay after the event. Or retellings of christian and jewish myths. And all are copies of copies passed down and rewritten by generations of devout fanatical monks. They are contradictory, full of mythical gibberish, multiple confirmed fake and tampered with.
Want a more rigorously recorded "historical" account? Joseph Smith reading magic messages with som fucking stone or whatever that shit was. That had actual witnesses! Do you care? No. And you shouldn't.
If the bible was correct, or wise, it wouldn't matter who wrote it and why. The content would speak for itself.
"god is real, some desert people saw some shit" is worth literally nothing on whether a sentient superpower exists or not.
>>1268593
It is what it is.
There is a God, and you will meet Him in the future.
Right now, that meeting will not go well for you.
>>1268644
>You realize there is a God
I'm stuck here, and nothing seems to be helping.
>>1268650
Repeating something doesn't make it true, nor does believing it. If you really believe in God and you'll meet him then why don't you just kill yourself and beg forgiveness as you do it?
>>1268668
That's a (conveniently made) sin, anon.
>>1268646
You're certainly welcome to express your own opinion; you just don't get your own facts.
Matthew, John Mark, Peter, John, Paul; all met and knew Jesus personally. Luke took all of the current accounts and put everything in good order.
There were hundreds of eyewitnesses to the risen Christ, and zero documents indicating any different account.
Zero contradictory accounts.
Where as with UFO phenomenon, etc., there is usually contradictory accounts or explanations.
>>1268666
check'd
Maybe defining God as the being entitled to be called God due to creating the universe; maybe that will help.
That way, if you think the Law of Gravity created the universe, as Stephen Hawking published, your god would be the Law of Gravity.
>>1268668
Why would I beg for something that was already given to me 2000 years ago?
>>1268674
1) Point in the bible where it says that's a sin.
2) You're a sinner by default (you believe) so it doesn't matter. Just beg forgiveness as you do it. Unless you think this is the only life you get, of course.
>>1268668
And saying the truth is not true is a far more useless endeavor.
>>1268693
I know you think you're being clever, but I'm actually as ambivalent as Paul about going to heaven sooner rather than later. And like Paul, I think I have some more work to do here.
>>1268640
And how many times have I told you that that's not how objectivity works?
Objective means true regardless of time, place, context, etc. If you claim objective morality, own it. Don't tell me that when it doesn't benefit you, you suddenly don't have to follow it because of muh context, because all you do is prove that your objective morality isn't objective at all
>>1268686
Then kill yourself and go to paradise already. Unless you don't actually believe it.
>>1268683
I don't see why someone would call such a thing God.
>>1268701
So you admit it's not in the Bible. Your excuse is a copout. Admit it, you have reservations about dying.
>>1268693
I'm not a sinner nor a believer, what are you talking about?
>>1268644
What you described isn't objective. It's not even morality. It's just Stockholm syndrome.
>>1268694
Again saying its the truth won't make it true.
>>1265299
Everyone knows this. To say otherwise is foolishness.
>>1268617
No. Whether the earth is round also has a different answer to some people, who cares?
Or whether smoking is harmful.
There might be an infinite number of equivalent way for people to thrive, that doesn't mean its arbitrary. They are still distinct to the states where people don't thrive.
You can try to convince yourself that there is no distinction between living to 80 and having a loving family and a healthy fulfilling life, and dying of a bleeding asshole by the age of 5 because you have to drink shitwater.
But those lives are objectively different, and one is objectively preferable to humans.
>>1268622
That state may very well occur, but that would still have an objectively valid answer.
This is I would say a moral question to be investigated, and depends heavily on the situation, with similar situations possibly having different answers and so on. Life is complex, and so are moral problems.
There might be true dilemmas, or equivalently shitty outcomes. But it would still be in principle possible to decide what the most preferable outcome would be for both. Usually its some sort of cooperation and empathy based approach.
If the groups are in principle the same entities, like, both are genetically within a narrow enough margin to be basicly identical in the expiriences availeable to them, say both groups consist of human beings. Then the difference in their beliefs about what is beneficial to them means one groups is propably just wrong in their assesment of the situation. As I said, depends on the details there. You are trying to make a complete hypothetical where its literally a dilemma. Those can exist. Why would that make morality in principle arbitrary?
>>1265333
Holy shit.
Faith +3
>>1268650
This is as impressive to me as if i told you
"Xenu is real, and thetans will eat you".
Or that Loki will punch me in the balls. Or that I might get coals from santa.
If you have good reasons to believe this, I promise you I am open to them. And would believe them if you had them.
"My book says a guy totally rose from the dead so everything else in it is real" is not a good standart of evidence to have.
Neither is "it feels good to me".
>>1268702
Objective interpretation: Jesus told a rich young Jewish ruler that he was not following God.
You: GIB ALL MONEY TO POOR OR U NOT KRSITIAN
>>1268703
Not many Holy Spirit filled Christians are suicidal; that's more your thing.
>>1268704
Have you seen any part of the universe that impressed you?
>>1268678
I was ready to entertain this and explain why you are wrong, but then
>Zero contradictory accounts
shows your position to be unassaileable by facts or evidence, so I think I'll save us both the time.
>>1268718
Why would I refer to Paul if it were not in the bible?
Philippians 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
>>1268751
By that standard, I can disregard the entire Bible, since the Ten Commandments were only given to Moses' followers, and apparently only the people on the mount should have followed everything Jesus told them in his sermon.
Your own logic eats itself. Stop fucking fooling yourself, retard
>>1268722
You're not a sinner?
You are as God is?
You can create a universe like the universe we live in?
And you have not done so, why?
>>1268724
What's not objective about a hostage situation?
>>1268678
>Zero contradictory accounts
Centuries of consuls tinkering the text certainly made that attempt. But they failed.
What day did Jesus die on? And what time?
Did he die before the day of the passover meal as John says, or did he die after the meal was eaten as Mark says?
>>1268725
And again saying the truth is a lie does not make the truth a lie.
You haven't even learned that there exists objective truth. A little god over your own fiefdom.
How sad.
>>1268749
That merely displays your ignorance and your lack of research into Xenu, Loki, etc.
>>1268761
Zero.
All of those red arcs are lies, and most of them are embarrassingly bad misunderstandings.
>>1268733
As someone before said what values that a group or person has are subjective. Most major conflicts are not over deciding how to prosper a particular value but which value shall triumph and which shall fall. Each side can hold stead-fast to their values and prefer to die out than betray their values. Even the preference of life over death is not absolute.
I agree that given a set of values one can look at the world objectively, but I do not believe the values are never universal and ultimately subjective. However it does go full circle that the outcomes out certain value systems are objective yet which outcome is preferable is yet another subjective value.
>>1268767
They were given to you to show you that you cannot be like God on your own.
Same reason they were given to the Hebrews.
>>1268777
Your inference stems from not knowing the difference between Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
All of the gospels put Jesus on the cross at noon, Nisan 14, a Thursday.
>>1268798
There are no divine properties to the universe.
The universe reveals the divine properties of the Creator.
>>1268751
What you posted is actually the objectivily false interpreation. The Jew came to Jesus and asked him what one must do to enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus told him to sell everything he owes and give it the poor.
>>1268809
Do you have any evidence to back that up?
>>1268798
I had a feeling you did not understand what "being a sinner" meant, since it's usually taken as colloquial; i.e. if you have ever lied, you are a liar; if you have ever stolen anything, you are a thief; etc.
To sin is to miss the mark. The target. The goal.
And in life, the goal is to be as God is, or die.
>>1268792
That's a pretty strong claim.
>>1268812
Nope.
The man said he was perfect in following the Law, and Jesus showed him that he violated the first commandment, and was actually worshiping Mammon, the demon god of greed.
>>1268817
Yup.
Romans 1
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
>>1268781
And you haven't learned God doesn't actually exist and is merely in your psyche, and that calling your deluded worldview truth still won't make it true. How sad.
>>1268822
Ain't my first rodeo.
>>1268831
Hmmmm, let me think about your point.
God does not exist, so God did not make the universe, so there is no universe, no humans that God made, and no me, and no you.
That's a pretty weak point.
>>1268754
That's because they don't actually believe in heaven. Heaven is just a psychological trick people use to live easier.
>>1268818
Again, I don't believe in your religion nor in your God, therefore your notion of sin doesn't mean anything to me.
What would you think if someone said to you "you sinned against Zeus".
>>1268841
You didn't think hard enough.
>>1268830
Sir, I asked for a proof. Quoting the bible doesn't mean anything. Can you prove the truthfulness of the bible? Oh, and saying that "it's the word of God" doesn't classify as a proof.
>>1268793
A set of values can run contrary to what is actualyl true. And contrary to what is actually beneficial to a homo sapiens.
Values are just truthstatements as any other. They can be false, or true, or lead to miserable lives or more content lives.
For example, being ready to murder your daughter for getting herself rapes is objectively not the best way to have a healthy and cohesive family dynamic. The insight that you actually don't have to do that and it will lead to a life with less anxiety and psychological suffering is a true, objective insight. And fuck those values, they are objectively wrong.
People disagree on what is healthy to eat, or on how fast the universe expands. That doesn't mean health is subjective, or astronomy.
Our brains are matter, and their state is defined by the state of the universe. Some states are objectively more preferable than others.
There can be many equivalently pleasant brain states, like having 2 boys and one girl as a child or one boy and 2 girls. They don't even have to be universal. It may even depend on the particular physiology of a person for a specific issue.
That would still keep morality well within objective truths, and not every opinion equally valid.
>>1268678
>You're certainly welcome to express your own opinion; you just don't get your own facts.
Holy shit, I'm just laughing at the irony here.
>There were hundreds of eyewitnesses to the risen Christ, and zero documents indicating any different account.
Rofl, Paul claims 500 people saw Jesus at once yet doesn't say where this happened, when it happened, how it happened to; in other words he could just be hearing a myth, or a highly embellished event.
>Zero contradictory accounts
Have you even read the New Testament? Why don't you make a checklist of the post resurrection and crucifixion accounts and count the contradictions.
>>1268801
" It was nine o’clock in the morning when they crucified him. "
Mark 15:21
>>1268831
Yet here you are, a tiny, insignificant spec of carbon and water, so egotistical that you think you can make such a grand claim, even given that everything humanity could ever know is a tiny drop in the bucket of all the things that actually exist.
Yet even so, your tiny feeble brain, composed of mushy cells shooting tiny bits of electricity at each other, are capable of forming ideas and images and thoughts. This one, tiny, shittier than average brain that you possess can shit post on an image board, even though it is a tiny point in the sea of infinity.
You, a self repeating pattern that comes from the universe, can somehow ignore the massiveness of it all, and say "if I can't see it, it must not exist." because it's too difficult for your ego to bare that there is more than it can fathom. You default to your primal monkey brain and refuse to believe in anything beyond the food on your plate.
yet you, a creature that comes from the universe, refuses to believe that the universe is aware? That it is infinite, and therefore, all things exist, including God, which is all things that exist in all directions, big and small, left and right, up and down, in the past and into the future, and among infinite dimensions we can never fathom.
You, bringing up the psyche, a pattern of electricity in the brain, while ignoring all of quantum reality, which is infinite amounts of vibrating space-time, just like electricity, all over the fucking place, and yet refuse to believe the universe is capable of thought?
Plz, let go of your ego.
>>1268830
Someone else. One of my favorite verses
>>1268843
We're alive. We're going to heaven. We're walking with our Lord, and He's in no hurry. Never is.
>>1268848
I would think that they did not know that Zeus was merely Adam, the Father of us all, deified by the Greeks.
>>1268851
Okay, I'll think harder.
No God.
So no universe.
So no earth.
So no humanity.
So no you.
So no me.
Nope, I get to the same place. If there is no God, neither you nor I exist.
>>1268856
Yes.
Everything properly in the bible is true.
That verse is properly in the bible.
Q.E.D.
>>1268877
>hurrr durrr it's all in your head
Decently written, but just another strain of theistic pyschobabble. Some of us are humble enough to claim that we don't really know how the universe works, but we are excited to find out. If we are to believe a bunch of ancient, illiterate, superstitious middle eastern fanatics got the right answers, we only ask for more substiantial evidence. Is that not unreasonable?
>>1268896
>implying god is a prerequisite for the existence of the universe
>implying YOUR specific opinion of god is even necessary for that
Why is Bearded Semite more of a valid claim than Vishu, Christposter?
>>1268863
That would be "Jerusalem". It was the Passover, so everyone was in Jerusalem.
>>1268877
>even given that everything humanity could ever know is a tiny drop in the bucket of all the things that actually exist.
Yet you think that we are the major plan of God. How strange.
>>1268869
Yes, and he was on the cross for six hours.
So all of the gospels have Jesus on the cross at noon.
I'm starting to think the level of brain power here is lower than I anticipated.
>>1268877
> everything humanity could ever know is a tiny drop in the bucket of all the things that actually exist.
Ah the classic argument from ignorance. I don't know everything, but I can deduce things. I've never observed an unmelting ice cube in molten lava but I can be sure one doesn't exist. The universe is infinite but that doesn't mean the physically impossible is suddenly possible just because we can't observe it. Using logic is not egotistical. Claiming you know God is.
>>1268888
Peter 35 AD: " God's kingdom is soon! Repent now because he will come very soon, yes in our lifetimes, just you watch"
Christians 100 AD: "Now you see Peter never literally meant that, he was talking about God's perspective and how to God a second is a century"
How Christianity still stands after this only testifies to how it has to illogically dig itself out of almost every pitfall in its philosophy.
>>1268869
What. That's not what that verse you cited says
>>1268915
Remember that they don't seek truth. Only faith.
>>1268906
I defined "God" above.
God is a title belonging to the being who created the universe.
There's only one universe, but there are many competing claims. It requires thought, and study, and reflection.
You know, work.
>>1268915
That's strange, because the way I read it, the Kingdom of God came before Peter wrote anything down for future reading.
Where the King is, so is the Kingdom.
>>1265299
>>1268888
Kill yourself and be with him. After all, what does this finite world matter in the face of infinite Heaven?
>>1268892
:^)
>>1268919
He meant verse 25.
>>1268911
>I'm starting to think the level of brain power here is lower than I anticipated.
Real rich coming from someone who believes in people rising from the dead
>>1268896
Think harder. Come on, use that Christcuck brain.
>>1268877
Way to try to sound intellectual and imposing but cells don't actually shoot electricity at eachother.
The axon of a nerve cell uses ion potentials to conduct an electric signal across itself but actual cell-cell communication in the synaptic gap is not electricity based.
You also can't just dismiss the negative claim by stating "you can't know nuffin".
Why do you think your extraordinary claim is true if we are so fallible?
>>1268931
Why do you think Christians are suicidal, merely because we're going to heaven after we die?
It will be there later.
We're in no hurry. If we can sneak one more person in, all the more reason to stick around.
>>1268907
>it was the Passover.
"Where does it say this or is implied in any text circa 50AD? You're just spouting an unsupported statement to keep your beliefs going.
>it was in Jerusalem.
Why not Galilee? And if he appeared in Jerusalem how the fuck did he appear to 500 people in a packed urban city, it makes no sense at all, coupled with the dead people getting out of their tombs and walking about in Matthew's gospel to no one else's recordings it just seems purely stupid.
>>1268924
>created the universe
You're almost there, just a little further. Why does the universe have to have been "created" in the sense that you're thinking?
>>1268924
>You know, work
>Welp God did it :^)
>>1268937
Er, why wouldn't people believe things that happen, even if they only happened a few thousand times? Or once?
>>1268924
You're assuming that some being created the universe.
>>1268939
It's so difficult. I simply cannot delude myself into believing that I don't exist.
How do you do it? Drugs? Alcohol?
>>1268929
So "wherever my hat is that's my home", how stupid can you be if you have to resort to using semantics to justify your position?
>>1268955
Oh I will believe it alright, but only if it has evidence backing it up.
>>1268952
Jesus rose in 32 AD, crucified on the Passover, and rising 3 days later. I don't know all the Jew rules, but being in Jerusalem on Passover is a big one. And they couldn't leave until some time later; there was also the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Feast of First Fruits, and the Pentecost.
Huge party. Lots of folks.
>>1268951
>It will be there later.
So? If I offered you a million dollars would you want it 40 years from now or right fucking now? Don't worry about people who aren't saved, other Christians can handle them, there's literally billions of you guys. Suicide doesn't matter because you're going to fucking paradise, right?
>>1268902
>because it's ancient, I disagree with it.
You don't need religion to know God exists. but it's a good starting point. God existing is more logical than God not existing. God not existing means there is a limit on reality. But limits on reality can easily be reasoned away by saying "What about what's beyond that limit?" Therefore, reality is infinite, therefore God exists.
It's unreasonable to disregard billions of people because they existed hundreds of years ago, They were just as smart as anyone. All science has done today is give us the ability to measure reality, but doesn't prove or disprove anything in metaphysics. science is like hammer, and metaphysics is a tree you want to cut down.
>>1268910
I said no such thing. I'm new to this thread.
But God infinitely knows you and us just as much as God infinitely knows everything else. We are a nothing to God, but God is so infinite and powerful God can easily devote itself to our existence if it pleases, which God does and does not do at the same time. Duality is an illusion.
>>1268913
> I've never observed an unmelting ice cube in molten lava but I can be sure one doesn't exist.
No you don't. Somewhere in the cosmos, there is a reality where the physics allow for that to happen. That won't happen in our current location of reality, in the way we can sense and measure it, but it does exist, because everything exists.
>Using logic is not egotistical.
It is when you make claims like "this giant blindspot in our perception is nothingness."
>>1268953
Because if it was not created, it would not exist.
I know you types think that QM something space something foam something time quark something Planck length something therefore there's no God, but it's ludicrous.
>>1268954
Yup.
And then rested on the seventh day.
>>1268958
Use that tiny brain, come on.
>>1268956
No, I'm cheating because I know Him.
You're assuming maybe someone didn't.
>>1268943
because I let go of the ego. And all matter is basically vibrating space-time, just like electricity and the biology you mentioned. If it can form thoughts, why can't the universe? Even the visible universe is a tiny cell of reality. You think too small.
>>1268955
>even if they only happened a few thousand times?
That would make something, like water freezing at a certain temperature, consistently verifiable.
>Or once?
Because your faith requires it.
Well, perhaps that's an uncharitable view towards the more vigorous Theologians out there. Being born of a virgin and rising from the dead aren't the sole requirements to be the son of god.
>>1268960
I don't, really. My King said that His Kingdom was within me. I checked. He's there.
Now, there will come a time after the Second Coming when Jesus will live among us again, and rule over the earth, but a lot of bad shit goes down between now and then.
It's gonna make the 20th century look like a picnic.
>>1268967
>But limits on reality can easily be reasoned away by saying "What about what's beyond that limit?"
>Therefore, reality is infinite, therefore God exists.
Hahaha
>>1268967
>No you don't. Somewhere in the cosmos, there is a reality where the physics allow for that to happen.
Proof that the laws of physics aren't fucking consistent? And where's your Nobel Prize?
>>1268962
Great! Try "Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by Josh Dowell, "More Evidence that Demands a Verdict" by same, "Who Moved The Stone?" and "God on the Dock", for starters.
>>1268969
>Because if it was not created, it would not exist.
Wrong. An impersonal force could have formed the universe.
>it's ludicrous
>because my worldview doesn't allow it!
hello
>>1268966
There's two inferences in your analogy that make if fail. The first is inflation. The second is risk.
Heaven isn't getting any worse in the future, and there is no risk I will not get there.
And once there, the things of this life, of this world, will be nothing. A blink, and then I'm hugging Jesus.
>>1268964
>500 people.
>All at once.
>Jerusalem
Have you undergone a lobotomy or are all Christians this stupid? A dead guy appears in a city during its most important days to a huge crowd at once and not a single other person writes this down. You have got to be kidding me.
You said earlier that Luke soothed out the edges, yet he doesn't write about this 500 people converting. Maybe because it didn't happen and he knew better.
>>1268984
>laughing face meme instead of an argument
k
>>1268985
I didn't say that I can prove it. I said by the logic that reality is infinite, there are infinite possibilities and realities, and therefore, a reality that has the physics you desire, that exist outside or parallel to or within (or all 3, none of those directions actually exist objectively, they only exist to us as humans) the physics of this universe.
>>1268980
Hmmmm, miracles being consistently verifiable.
How about you think about it the other way?
That empiricism has limits?
>>1268978
No, you're cheating because you're pretending that you know him.
And no, I'm not assuming that someone didn't, my position on this matter is "I don't know", and so should be yours.
>>1268991
Then that impersonal force would be your God; a god of forces.
The God of the Antichrist.
>>1268983
Keep telling yourself that kid, just like Peter and the disciples did.
>>1269001
Who said nobody else wrote it down?
You? The guy who believe the absence of evidence is evidence of absence? Why would we trust your though processes?
Someone argue with me about something
>>1269006
I can't pretend the stuff I've seen, so no.
>>1269014
Yes, and I'm going to be thrilled to finally meet them in person.
>>1268996
>Heaven isn't getting any worse in the future, and there is no risk I will not get there.
Then what are you waiting for? Go. This world means nothing. It makes no difference whether you go now or 40 years from now, so you hand no excuse not to want to do it now. Except you don't want to do it now, because you're scared of dying.
>>1269002
How the fact that "limits can easily be reasoned away" automatically leads to the conclusion that reality is infinite, and further than that, that God exists? That's an absurd jump. Are you insane?
