Why do American neckbeards, typically not of Greek or surrounding heritage, seem to have a heavy interest the Byzantine Empire?
I feel like the stereotype of them liking vikings is essentially over. Nowadays what I mainly see is them obsessing over Byzantium.
>>1251280
Because like the Byzantine Empire, we too will be overrun by Muslims. We must learn from the past to fight for our future.
Cause they can't be Catholic or Protestant because it's too mainstream, so they rebel by becoming Orthodox.
>>1251285
What you can learn from Byzantine? Being in debt and calling le helpful venetian merchant for a help?
As an American, I'll say it's fascinating because it sort of blows our minds.
We go through all our high school days learning that the Roman Empire fell in the 5th Century AD. This gets DRILLED into us. We're very much children of Gibbon, still.
Then we go to college or start reading, and we find out there's almost an entire extra millennium of the Roman Empire, it's just not based in Rome.
It is, as I said, mind-blowing. It's like finding out that the the Sun orbits the Earth after all. It's something we were taught as children turning out to be totally, completely wrong. It fascinates us.
>>1251280
I myself have ancestry from Southern Italy which was part of the Byzantine empire for many years. I find the Byzantine empire to be fascinating but I don't particularly care for it as much as say the classical Roman Empire and to the point where I'll shitpost on threads and being very obnoxious about it.
>>1251285
The Byzantine Empire wasn't overrun by muslims, it was destroyed by Christians and civil wars
>>1251280
Oh shit. I didn't realize that was a stereotype; I've liked Byzantines forever, now I feel like people are gonna think I'm some kind of faggot poser.
The Byzantine Empire was fairly advanced for it's time, had a lot of inner conflict, and the Muslim encroachment is interesting. The sack and later fall of Constantinople, the Latin shit, Manzikert, etc are all very entertaining subjects.
I'm a byzaboo american neckbeard with Greek heritage and for me it's partially the 10/10 aesthetic, partially the fact I'm greek and partially the fact that it was a powerful empire brought down by backstabbings, incompetence, and invaders at the gates with few true allies to speak of. It makes for a great story that appeals very much to a Game of Thrones crowd.
>>1251299
To be honest, I don't think this is it at all. Maybe for you personally, but not for others.
I think for others, it's mainly born out of a fetishization of the Crusades. Especially with anti-muslim sentiments being stoked in neckbeard circles these past few years.
That and the realization that vikings were neither very important nor interesting.
>>1251315 here
To be clear I'm keeping this solely in line with the demographic OP laid out: white american dudes with no mediterranean heritage who previously stereotypically loved viking/celt/germanic shit
>>1251318
Also don't forget the Byzzies are very viking adjacent, with the Varangian guard being the Emperor's bodyguard after all
Americans have some kind of brain problem concerning heritage. Like you'll see retards going on about how they're Irish or German.
>>1251315
>vikings were neither very important nor interesting
>>1251299
Maybe if you went to a shit school. We learned about the ERE pretty thoroughly.
I think it's just the contrarian tendency you find among such sorts. Vikings were once cool because they were considered badass and demonized extensively, then once it became more commonly known that they were successful traders, explorers, colonists, etc. they stopped being cool and thus the Byzantine empire which carried on the glory of Rome (sort of, but not really) for a millennium while being somewhat unknown was an interesting next step.
>>1251322
There's that, but I'm still leaning on what I see as the occam's razor answer, which is that byzantines had a lot of high-profile conflict with early islam and that appeals to neckbeards nowadays.
Google some combination of "byzantine" and "remove kebab" to see what I mean. I think a lot of them were only very dimly aware of the civilization 5 years ago.
>>1251313
>I'm Greek
You're not.
>>1251337
>Google some combination of "byzantine" and "remove kebab" to see what i mean
oh jesus christ
americans pls stop ruining memes
>>1251339
My maternal grandmother's name was Stasinopoulos. I said I have Greek heritage
>>1251345
"the fact I'm greek"
no you're not
>>1251345
If you don't have black hair and hairy-ass legs and a cousin named Zacharias who's kind of a guido and your mom doesn't talk like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnvCjG_gEHc including the eye-squint thing
you're not greek
>>1251349
Part Greek then. I'm sorry.
>>1251365
You're probably part Mongol too, yet you're not over here claiming to be Mongolian. Some vague genetic link to a far off place doesn't make you a part of that culture or people. You're American.
>>1251373
No none of my family comes from Finland
>>1251373
He never said he was Greek. He said he has Greek heritage.
>>1251373
Dude fuck off its a tangible link to another culture stop being an autist he can be interested in his heritage if he wants
>>1251377
>>1251380
Oh, disregard. I'm an idiot.
>>1251380
That's somewhat taking it out of context.
sounds like your thread is bollox
Autists got bored and started to LARP as crusaders
>"Deus Bult, my ancestors speag to me"
Because Byzantium was Rome, a civilisation that created western civilisation and it fell in a very tragic and dramatic way.
ΣΩΣΟΝ ΚΥΡΙΕ ΤΟΝ ΛΑΟ ΣΟΥ
Ο ΜΑΡΜΑΡΩΜΕΝΟΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΙΑΣ ΘΑ ΣΗΚΩΘΕΙ
ΠΑΛΙ ΜΕ ΧΡΟΝΙΑ ΜΕ ΚΑΙΡΟΥΣ ΠΑΛΙ ΔΙΚΙΑ ΜΑΣ ΘΑ ΝΑΙ
>>1251280
>>I feel like the stereotype of them liking vikings is essentially over.
You're wrong. I like both Classical polytheist rome and also vikings.
Byzantium does absolutely nothing for me.
T. Neckbearded American.
>>1251315
>being anti-muslim means you're a neckbeard.
Feel free to redirect me to /pol/ like the memer you are, but I don't think you're on the right website.
Crusaders have always been idolised, it's not a modern trend.
>>1251393
>implying bulgayyrians trigger byzaboos
>>1251337
How is that the "Occam's razor" when it's based entirely on your own dumb biased opinion you fucking retard?
I could just as easily say people like Byzantium because they're colored purple in gs games, Occam's Razor bruh, simplest answer.
>>1251373
Why the fuck would he be part Mongol
>le X% of people are related to Genghis Khan
Yeah, because most of the world's population just so happen to live where he did all his raping. That doesn't mean a fucking inuit or a Welshman is likely to have Mongol blood.
>>1251395
That's not what he said though.
>anti-muslim sentiments being stoked in neckbeard circles
The neckbeard circles (ie: 4chins) are already established, and people are stoking those sentiments within them. It doesn't equate neckbeard to anti-islam or vice versa.
The Crusades weren't always idolized either. They had their detractors same as anything else.
>>1251395
christ man learn to read in the right direction
>>1251406
>turks are steppeshits related to mongols
>turks take over ERE including all of Greece
>"I'm Greek"
>high probability of having some% Mongol genes
QED
>>1251380
Here, I apologize and admit I am but a neckbeard with greek HERITAGE and that's why I'm interested in them, due to me being a quarter greek but ultimately being American byzaboo and you admit you're being an autist and misreading my intent. Deal?
>>1251410
They've been idolised throughout all of modern history. Basically ever since the Crusades actually ended the Crusaders were shown as idolic figures in many pieces of European and Christian art. I would say that the demonising of the Crusaders and equating them with groups like ISIS is more of the modern trend
>>1251418
What did he mean by this?
>>1251423
>Implying
>>1251423
Turks are less than 5% central asian turk, not even Mongolian
And that percentage is even lower in west Turkey
Turks are just turko-persianized Anatolians
>>1251423
>All Greeks are turk rapebabies which is why they no longer have glorious snow white skin, blue eyes and blond hair
>>1251436
""""""PROBABILITY""""""
>>1251390
What a shitty symbol. Never liked their eagle.
>>1251441
Extremely low
>>1251446
I got something more your speed.
>>1251287
>rebel by becoming orthodox
odd
>>1251299
this was it for me. i had no idea the byzantine empire existed until late high school when i found out about it by myself. it was never brought up or mentioned in world history, ever. rome fell in 476 AD and then it was all the middle ages, which only focused on what was going on in western europe. actually the middle ages were pretty well skipped over so we could get to the renaissance
>>1251373
t. muttiest mutt of an american who is such a fucking mutt he has zero connection to any of his heritage, and spergs out whenever a person claims he has x heritage if its not 100%. Just fuck off m8
>>1251299
>This gets DRILLED into us
No it doesn't you retarded nigger
>>1251339
In England, most people I know don't even know there was an Eastern Empire
Roman history is just interesting, i dunno why this is hard to get.
t.not american not greek or from the balkans
>>1251315
>people like the Byzantine Empire because they idolize the Crusades
what sort of mental gymnastics does one have to train in to reach this sort of conclusion
>>1254255
if you weren't such a fucking bluepilled nu-male and watched RealCrusadeHistory you'd realise the fall of byzantium was 100% the fault of the muslims. The fucking Catholics did EVERYTHING THEY FUCKING COULD to save the holy land and Byzantine, but the fucking muzzies had to go and fucking conquer.
>>1254264
Fourth Crusade
Robert Guiscard & the Normans
>>1254281
fuck off cuckold
check out this channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/RealCrusadeHistory
it's the only legitimate source for the crusades; now get redpilled.
>>1254290
nice false flag
shitpost somewhere else faggot
>>1251299
There is another reason why the Byzantine Empire should interest you.
In 50 years or so you will become a lot like it.
>>1254294
shut the fuck up
posting fucking sources of education isn't fucking shitposting
I'm trying to fucking educate that other guy with the true history, not go through "a covert operation to deceive by a nation or state" you fucking autist cuck.
>>1254310
>>1254308
>>1254317
yes I do fucking believe that the crusades were a good thing
I do believe the holy land should be defended
I do believe that Byzantine shouldn't have fallen
I do believe that Christian lands should be defended by Christians
if that fucking "offends" you, then that's too bad. Because I don't care.
>>1254322
was the Fourth Crusade a good thing though
>>1254322
/pol/tards like you are an embarrassment to Christians, and need to larp elsewhere
>>1254330
Its original goal was to sack Cairo and thus cripple one of the stronger Muslim forces in the ME. Venice holding the debts Crusaders owes is the one who had them attack fellow Christians.
>>1254364
glad you can use Wikipedia
did you know the Venetians weren't Muslims?
did you know another goal of diverting to Constantinople was to heal the schism that had occured a few decades before and persists today?
>>1251390
Isn't that eagle a selcuk türk symbol? :^)
>>1254386
its the symbol of the Palaiologos dynasty you smelly roach
>>1254398
>its the symbol of the Palaioloğlu dynasty
fixed
>>1254419
TAKE IT BACK
Sorry, you seem to be confused, but the helpful users of 4chan's History and Humanities board are here to gladly help clear this up.
What is often thought of as "Byzantium", "the Byzantines", or "the Byzantine Empire", is actually in fact "the Roman Empire". This is due to the Roman Empire in Constantinople's former status as the Eastern Roman Empire. When the Western Roman Empire was gone, the Eastern Roman Empire became the one and true Roman Empire, and as it was ruled by the Emperor of Rome. Any usage of any form of "Byzantium" is reductive to the dignity of the Roman Empire at this time, and lends credence to the belief that the Western Roman Empire continued in the form of the Holy Roman Empire, which was in fact not holy, not Roman by any reasonable stretch, and not actually an Empire in anything but name. There was also no such office or title as "Emperor of Byzantium" or "Emperor of the Byzantines" at any point in history.
I'm glad to have been helpful in addressing this small matter and I hope you have a good day :)
I'd just like to interject for a moment.
What you’re referring to as Byzantium, is in fact, Basileia Romaion or to you English speakers, The Roman Empire. Byzantium is not a historical name unto itself, but rather another example of Germanic revisionism.
>>1254517
>created by Roman people
>isn't Roman
k
>>1254517
Just kill yourself
The Roman state moved the center of it's empire, and eventually lost territory to other kingdoms in the west. This isn't up for dispute, and ever actual historian will say the same thing. This is coming from someone who thinks the Byzantines were trash, and the 4th crusade was one of the best things to happen in the medieval world
>>1254568
fuck off
>>>/venice/
>>1251373
>t.
>yurocuck who has nothing else but indoctrinated nationalist rhetoric to fall back on
pay your debts pls greeks
>>1254517
(You)
>>1251280
Arrived late for the party but I think a lot of if has to do with their enfatuation for memeodoxy.
Modern man craves for sanity in an insane world.
Protestantism = wars for Israel.
Catholicism = washing refugee feet.
Memeodoxy seems like the best alternative.
>>1254620
>infatuation*
>>1251307
>m-muh muh Byzantine huritage
>>1254593
if it doesn't have rome then it can't really call itself the roman empire
>>1256425
Why not? It was the Senior Empire, it had the direct line of government succession.
>>1251373
>You're probably part Mongol too
And you're probably part Turk considering your slut of a great-grandmother more than likely spread her legs for every Kebab this side of the Dardanelles.
>>1254517
I mean for the last hundred years of the Western Roman Empire the city of Rome itself was regarded as a bit of a dump and all the important stuff happened in Ravenna.
>>1251309
Yes and then overrun by Muslims.
>>1256633
It's plausible I don't deny it. I'm not over here claiming to be Ottoman or some shit though.
Because americans have an irrational fear of muslims, while ignoring the butchery done by cartels just south of their border. I don't get it, I'm not saying go love muslims or anything but americans tend to fear enemies far beyond more than the enemy within or just outside. More Americans are killed by cartels than muslim terrorism but still media only shows them isis and they eat whatever they are served.
Most of them don't know about much of the history either, An american was began to talk shit about muslims when I was mentioning the sack of constantinople in 1204, I wish I was joking.
>>1256633
No one denies that, but only amerifats go muh 1/64 heritage.
For all that eurotrash talk america has a good culture a long tradition and a strong identity, stop trying to be something else, being 1/64 does not make you a greek, having a greek great grandmother does not make you a greek. If you tell you are a greek but cannot talk in greek people will just laugh at you.
>>1254264
>Watching RealCrusadeHistory
That fucker hates muzzies so fucking much, that the shit he says is laughable. it is worse yet when he brings on "studied academic" from the local Community College to jerk him off
>>1254298
Why does everyone assume that the entire African continent is just going to join up in the future?
>>1256717
Because they're fucking idiots.
>>1256681
>>1254264
realcrusadeshistory is really bad, Its not bad because he is doing bad history, but he cherry picks his arguments very well and fits evidence into his view rather than using the evidence to form a view. 1-2 years ago I was writing long posts on cripplechan and /pol/ (back when history threads were created there) pointing out the inconsistencies, the connections he made up, the logical fallacies etc etc I gave up after a while, those who watch him do watch him for cicrlejerking anyways, and his constituency is limited to the religious far right, and its contained there. He is doing bad history but at least it is contained.
Also the comment sections are gold, he really chimpsout and shows his true colors in orthodox-catholic threads (or did, novadays he just burries it) he also got triggered very hard in assasins creed comment section.
A funny guy, but as long as he is stayed out of academia I don't give a fuck anymore. I'm not here to be a muslim apologist , a christian apologist or teach dumb muslims who think saladin is an angel or dumb catholics who think crusaders dindu nuffin they go to church, actual history. At least he is not VDH, the oldfags here would remember the carnage his book carnage and culture did.
>>1256738
He seems mentally ill 2bh
>>1256748
Not mentally ill, he is just a very religious and very ideology filled dude. He says he tries to be a balanced and I believe he really is genuine. But aside from his bias(which causes him make up connection in his minds subconsiously-only have hammer everything is nail-) his lack of formal education causes him to make absurd claims and connections ( I would be really really really really surprised if he has an M.A. on history).
For example he did cited one guy in one of his video. I wish I could remember but the book he cited was written in 1970 and was refuted by a lot of scholars. He NEVER mentions that. 1-He doesn't know how to do a research 2-He lacks the formal education and language skills to do a research 3-His bias limits his view. I was shut down on cripple chan when I posted other scholars which refuted the guy whom he cited on his video. I'm not saying that guy is wrong and other scholars are right, what I'm getting is that he really does ----bad--- history, he uses the sources he likes and the evidence he likes and discards almost every other opinion.
Also His "I talk from sources and scholars" do not take into account the french-german scholarship (since he doesn't know it) very few primary texts (many arabic-syriac and some greek works are still not translated to english) which is absurd. But they are not as bad as him cherrypicking from his english sources-academics.
>>1256754
out of space wait for my reply famalam
>>1256754
>>1256793
VDH is totally another beast oh boy. I really don't hate Realcrusadesdude, I really don't. Its just a guy filled with ideology who makes some videos. But boy I hate VDH.
I love his early work, warfare and farming in ancient greece. What I hate about him is that during early 2000s era he sold out. I genuinely believe he sold himself out. His book carnage and culture is basically a neo-con propaganda, written just before 9-11 and post 9-11 our boy VDH became the sweetheart of neo con circles, advocating for iraq war, bastardizing the ancient history to write propaganda pieces. I swear to go it went something like this
>Persians are evil Greeks fight for freedom and capitalism and constitution thats why we must invade iraq
and he was rewarded for being a good goy. Some conservative institute awarded him quarter of a million. He still writes op-eds in conservative maganizes (also this enabled him to retire at the ripe age of 52)
Now there is nothing wrong with being a conservative, or writing cosnervative op eds. Donald Kagan is a conservative classicist yet no one shits on him. The reason why people shit on VDH is because as I said sold out. He basically began to bastardize history and write esspecially for the neo-con agenda. Warnerd and Bateman really rekt him good in their commentaries so I'll leave their links here.
Based warnerd
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-vs-neocon-knucklehead-victor-davis-hanson-a-war-nerd-classic/
Far more brutal imho, Bateman on Hanson
http://www.mediamatters.org/research/2007/10/22/bateman-on-hanson-an-altercation-altercation/140163
(part 1 of 4, lniks to other parts are in comment section)
VDH is an academic, he knows greek, he knows his latin, he knows french and german. He has a fucking phd and he was a tenured professor. What pisses me off is that guys like him selling out their academic integrity for some extra shekels.
cont.
>>1256810
>>1256754
Now If realcrusadehistory did it I would say well okay it is bad history but the guy believes in this shit. Yeah he cherrypicks yeah he ignores a lot of evidence but the guy has no formal education, knows no language and is ideologically biased.
VDH is definitely not under-educated (his conservationism aside and I think he is much more fueled by money than ideolgoy) For example please read the Batemans part 2, its is impossible that VDH doesn't know about Fabius or Fabian tactis or how Romans avoided Hannibal for years. But that doesn't fit into his, "Us westerners are tough down to earth guys who attack our enemies head on (thats why we must attack iraq btw) " rhetoric so he INTENTIONALLY igonres it
If rch did it I would be much more forgiving, but a fucking tenured professor ignoring a major evidence that goes against his view, intentionally. Fucking hell
Meh, maybe he had his reasons, medical bills or something. Anways inb4 right wing apologists come and defend him, notice how no one shits on Donald Kagan. Whom I believe have far more conservative views compared to VDH. Because Kagan does not bastardize greco-roman history in order to write books to get neo-con money.
The Eastern Empire survives the fall of the west, and exists for 977 years afterwards.
The Byzantines were multi ethnic.
It took over 800 years for Muslims to take the City.
It only fell after western Christian treachery and going bankrupt financing the crusades.
Once they lost anatolia, they were finished.
Long live the Emperor.
>>1254281
Don't forget Charles of Anjou. He was so close on bringing Byzantium back to Latin rule again until a storm brought down the ships that carried his army.
>>1253936
It's almost as if public education is left up to the states and each one has a different curriculum
>>1251309
nice try Turkey
Well I'm a Serb and here ERE is fetishized despite the fact we fought against them a lot.
>>1251280
I dunno man, here in Greece people are always busting everyones balls with
'We wuz ancient greeks an shit'
And forget all about one of our badassest eras.
Truly wasted potential
>>1251280
That image is WRE for one
and fuck knows, byzaboos are fags
>>1251315
>it's mainly born out of a fetishization of the Crusades
Right, even though crusaders are the people who fucked the dirty greek cunts up?
>>1251450
Venice has an amazing flag tbqh
Memeodoxy is a helluva drug.
>>1254593
lmao, justinian was such a moronic retarded cuck
He did a great job crippling his empire and letting it die because muh rome, muh real roman empire
Stupid fucking cunt he was
>>1256843
>kill catholics
>refuse to pay debts
>try to murder the army outside your city while theyre on the bopats
>WAHHH WHY ARE YOU SACKING US
Fuck off you greek loving cocksucker, how's it feel an OAP that was blind led an army to rape your favourite faggot people?
Why do african slaves and their ancestor worship their master's religion?
Because its the only thing they know of and are familiar with.
Americans are like that too. They do it because its the only thing they know of and they are familiar with.
>>1257595
Africa is full of christianity?
What the fuck are you on aboot?
>>1257621
Nearly bottom half of Africa is Christian.
>>1257653
stretching right up the continent
Africa is full of christianity, so how exactly are they worshiping their slaves religion any more than their own?
They're not desert dwelling berber muslim trash, they're wogs
>>1257480
They don't teach it that much in Greece because it would give rise to more nationalism over muh Constantinople and Turks would get angry.
>>1256810
The WarNerd is a fucking idiot (read anything he says on military tactics and strategy. He's a fat, emotionally immature neckbeard who couldn't tell you the difference between Thucydides and Mickey Mouse, and likely a FSB shill), not saying that Hanson was 100% correct in Carnage and Culture but he was close in explaining just why Western civilizations have been so dominant at warfare. I'm not sold on the explanation that he was writing it primarily as a puff peace for the Iraq war, especially since it was written well before 9/11. Brecher and (Master)Bateman seem intent on creating strawmen. Bateman also got his ass beat by Tom Kratman over the internet for calling for gun control and claiming to be a military professional with combat experience. Meanwhile Bateman was a REMF.
Nobody knows what the fuck happened to Alexander the greats empire either.
I guess his empire simply vanished overnight as soon as he died, and Ptolemy and company just went home or something.
>>1256717
Because people don't know enough about Africa.
>>1251393
>
>
>
>having the gall to call others false romans
>>1251299
The education system here differs way too much to generalize like that. I learned plenty about the Byzantine Empire in World History.
>>1251287
you cant honestly think that
>>1258420
I would say their arguments are good if not they themselves. Bateman delves into the book better than the fatnerd. If you read part 2 esspecially
Moreoverthe academic response to his book was similar. VDH just ignores the evidence that doesn't support his thesis. There were massive head on battles and large armeis with direct conforontation in the east and there were experts of gorilla warfare in the west. Notice he doesn't even admit the contarary evidence as "exception to the rule" he basically ignores it.
If you are writing a book about western warfare, a classicist and ignore Fabius willingly, you are doing bad history.
Regarding 9-11 I think he sold out just before that. around 99-00. He delved further into neo-con propaganda after the even.
