Did people from Ancient Greece actually believe Zeus was real the same way modern Christians believe in a Christian God?
>>1250056
Why do you say God is a Christian?
>>1250056
I don't have historical evidence to support this, but given how much time they spent on their mythology, it's probably not unreasonable to think that it wasn't mythology to them. But there's also no reason to think that they were deluded enough to create deities and then believe these deities existed on their own.
>>1250070
So you're saying Christians can believe in a non-Christian God?
>>1250056
why would Cuckrist be any more "real" than Zeus?
>>1250099
Because historians unanimously agree that Jesus existed.
> the same way modern Christians believe in a Christian God
They believed in him even more. Moderns Christians are glorified larpers.
>>1250056
>Did people from Ancient Greece actually believe Zeus was real
Considering that they prayed to them, yes.
>>1250101
D-DELET THIS
>>1250101
Not quite unanimously, but overwhelmingly sure
>>1250056
Yes, at least during the early period.
>>1250101
i'm not talking about the man, i'm talking about their 3-in-1 "God"
what makes him any more "real" than Zeus/Odin/Krishna/Amaterasu/etc?
>>1250097
No, I'm saying God is not a Christian.
He is God.
>>1250126
So he is the god as described by christians, aka the christian god
>>1250122
Er, God's not a Swiss Army knife. He's an eternal triune supernatural entity Whom you will meet face-to-face.
And you're really not ready for that meeting.
>>1250133
He's God as revealed by God. He's YHWH. He's the Great I Am. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is Christ Jesus Himself.
Zeus is just Adam deified by the Greeks. You can see it on their pottery; you can see it on the Parthenon.
>>1250134
> not ready for that meeting
You don't need to be ready. God wouldn't kill you or even harm and if he tried... Well he is God and how you gonna to stop him?
What if God is just an asshole and he likes people suffering so much that he even created an eternal place of torture for his entertainment? Who said God had to be good by nature?
>>1250153
Matthew 10:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
>>1250170
It's a horrifying thought, is it not?
>>1250122
For starters nobody claimed he was created like any of those, nor did they give a location of his house with a distinct longitude, and latitude
>>1250139
I dont care about your fan fiction
>>1250170
Because evil is the absence of God
>>1250177
And I don't care about yours.
>>1250056
From what I understand, not quite.
While he was top-dog, he wasn't the one behind creation,
he didn't create humans and is more "worldly" then how I would imagine most Christians see YHWH.
They probably saw him as a Man-Upstairs who shouldn't be fucked with, but Zeus by far was more tumultuous, physical and sexual.
>>1250184
I believe Anon is offering a thought experiment.
>>1250184
Maybe that's what he wants you to believe
>>1250184
> absence
> of omnipresent being
>>1250190
Zeus is just Adam.
Do none of you know that the pagans made their gods and demi-gods after people?
>>1250189
Why would you? Good thing I havent offered any
>Legitimate and interesting historical question derailed into YET ANOTHER THEOLOGICAL ARGUMENT ABOUT CHRISTIANITY
God damn it I hate /his/ more every day
>>1250199
> Zeus is just Adam
>>1250184
>Asked Abraham to sacrifice his son
>Nah man chill, it was just a prank!
What would we do without God?
>>1250202
God doesn't real and Zeus is not Adam.
That's your fanfic.
>>1250216
Constantine just went directly from Jupiter to Apollo. Horrible pic.
>>1250122
My book says so.
>>1250217
And a God Who could just raise Isaac from the dead, so that He could keep His promise to Isaac's unborn heirs?
What shall we do with that God?
>>1250208
>derailed
I wouldn't say that. It's more of a group of anons reducing their opponent's argument ad absurdum to try to come up with an answer for OP.
That, or your average ad hominem thread, in which case you're right.
>>1250126
Hahahahahah
>>1250208
Great contribution. A man killing himself. Great poster, you. Just awesome.
>>1250229
It's like asking if Buddha is a Buddhist.
>>1250139
This is the autism of autism
>>1250236
Autism = lack of empathy = atheism = cannot realize God is a person = psychopathic thinking behaviors.
So, that would be you, not me.
>>1250139
>what do you mean he's a Christian God?
>he is Christ
Are you legitimately retarded?
Weren't there a little group of modern pagans who still believe Zeus is real?
>>1250139
>Zeus is just Adam deified by the Greeks
It would be the other way around, since Zeus's name came before Adam and Amun before Zeus.
>>1250134
And you're not really ready for an adult conversation
>>1250172
So then the soul isn't eternal, got it.
>>1250220
I never claimed god didnt exist. I never even claimed zeus wasnt adam, although that is a hilariously retarded idea and im claiming it now
>>1250243
Is Buddha a Buddhist?
>>1250248
Zeus, literally the first man, after someone else.
kek
Father of humanity. First man. Adam. Zeus.
>>1250253
Correct. Your soul did not exist before you were conceived.
Once conceived, then it lives forever. Don't be deceived by your own misunderstanding of that verse; the destruction is eternal, not "until you don't exist".
>>1250126
>>1250139
>backpedaling this fast after your pretentious question was BTFO
>>1250260
If Buddha was considered a god by only Buddhists, then he'd be the Buddhist god. No fucking shit
>>1250264
God is not a Christian.
He is God.
This seems difficult for you to understand for some reason.
>>1250239
If you agree that God is a person, Christfags try to damage control hard because they don't want him to be a literally Jewish sky wizard.
>>1250086
>But there's also no reason to think that they were deluded enough to create deities and then believe these deities existed on their own.
Isn't that the basis of every religion?
>>1250272
I have no problem with Jesus being the Root of David, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the King of the Jews, and the King of Kings.
Why would I?
>>1250263
But it doesn't live forever if its destroyed, so the claim that the soul is eternal is false. Only the Christian soul would be eternal.
>>1250278
Again, being destroyed forever. No end. You never die. The fire never goes out. Eternal torment.
>>1250261
Zeus was neither the first man nor the father of humanity. He was the eldest of the second generation of gods. Men were created by prometheus, a member of the first generation of gods
>>1250269
But he is the Christian God
>>1250261
> Zeus
> literally the first man
Are you pretending to be retarded here? He wasn't the first man or even the first God.
>>1250277
If he Kings of Kings does it means that he rules over himself?
>>1250300
Its doesnt say hes the king of king of kings so no
>>1250282
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb22YcUlhjA
>>1250281
Apparently you don't understand what the word destruction is. Oh wait I forgot, the Bible can be translated literally any fucking way you'd like, nvm.
>>1250287
No, He's God.
He existed before there were Christians.
I can't imagine why this is a difficult concept.
>>1250300
kek
King of King of Kings.
>>1250304
And apparently you cannot fathom that you are an eternal being, and that your destruction would take an eternity.
And still not be accomplished.
>>1250239
>autism=psychopathy
shut the fuck up kid and kill yourself. you're of no use to this planet and you're perspective on life and its effect on society is fucking cancer.
>>1250239
>God is a person
Getting really fucking Heretical there.
>>1250315
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1053810005000851
Responding to the emotions of others: Dissociating forms of empathy through the study of typical and psychiatric populations
>>1250303
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1CWBKRWIg0
Two can play this game, anon
>>1250328
Might as well just post Zeitgeist.
kek
>>1250303
This is some bizarre fucking trolling I'm witnessing.
>>1250313
dude you're a fucking idiot. Destruction is the opposite of creation. It is annihilation. Ceasing to exist. To do so eternally is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.
>>1250327
Why would I be mad? Your just one more nameless person whose wrong on the internet. You dont even have any bad arguments to induce rage
>>1250101
No, at most they agree that a man named Jesus existed, who claimed to be the son of god, who claimed to do magic shit.
But Jesus is a character in a book, doing literal magic. Just because there might be a kid named Harry Potter in England, who claims to be a wizard, doesn't mean that Harry Potter, the character from the books, actually exists.
>>1250324
God isn't a real entity that have an emotions. So you can't diagnose autism from atheism anyway.
>>1250328
>Egyptians were the ancient creators of religion
Sumerians didn't exist?
>>1250336
And when that process, that destruction process, like setting something on fire, has as its core an eternal being?
Then the fire is eternal. And the eternal person never dies.
Mark 9 quoting Isaiah
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire— where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
>>1250347
Sumerian religion has far more interesting parallels with abrahamic but everyone pushes the tenuous or nonexistent egyptian shit
>>1250339
Says who, you?
>>1250217
Didn't everyone who was born before Jesus go to hell, or something like that? And Jesus had to go pick 'em up after centuries of torment for the sin of being born before him?
>>1250362
Dont think about it too hard, every explanation cascades out into more problems than it solves
>there are people on this board, who believe that an all-knowing being, who routinely sends revelations to people about future, can not know deeds of all men from now to end of the world
>there are people on this board, who believe that even if said being knows all future, it still can judge people he created KNOWING THEY WOULD DISOBEY HIM
>there are people who think that said being could judge people over deeds they had no influence on (as the future was already known to this being) without being evil, cruel and unjust
>moreover, they think that a man who made this being's masterplan possible by allowing son of this being (a son to a woman it wad not married to, I might add) to take all sins from all humans
>all that while still not being able to answer if all-powerful being can create a stone too heavy for it to lift
>>1250394
You could argue that when god shows people prophecys or whatever hes nott seeing the future hes stating the things he will make happen at a later date
>>1250358
Nothing can be said with any certainty whatsoever about the type of god which Christians propose.
To live your life based on your interpretation of it if it even exists should be classifies as a mental disorder.
Half of this thread belongs in a mental asylum as far away from society as possible.
>>1250407
Which would make him even more of an asshole.
>>1250422
Perhaps, but a more logically consistent one
>>1250338
t. Lord Voldemort
>>1250274
You are fundamentally incorrrct. The greeks created their gods in man's image rather than the other way around
>>1250056
>actually believe Zeus was real the same way modern Christians believe in a Christian God?
modern christians don't actually believe god is real.
>>1250170
>Who said God had to be good by nature?
Erm, he did...
>>1250427
That argument can equally be applied to any religion
>>1250427
What's the point of discussing the history of religion on this board when true believers derail this shit every time?
For fucks sake.
>>1250439
And you believe him?
>>1250444
Im pretty sure there is only like 4 or 5 dedicated christposters who derail everything, because ive had plenty of discussions with christians who dont do the discusion killing "everyone must discuss from the assumption my god exists precisely as i define him" shit
>>1250446
Why shouldn't I?
>>1250457
Maybe he's trying to trick you into thinking he's good. I mean, all you have is his word.
Do poo-in-loos believe in their green 700 handed elephant gods?
>>1250475
Yeah, and what do you have? Nothing.
>>1250482
All the not good shit he lets happen?
>>1250482
All the horrible shit in the world that he, being creator, is responsible for
>>1250616
>Adam and Eve is literal now
Fuck me, you Christfags will keep shifting on this to suit whatever need you have at the moment.
>>1250628
When did I claim otherwise, fedora?
>>1250631
I said Christfags not you. You're an idiot for taking it literally anyway.
I remember when this board was better than /pol/.
I'm so pissed that this guy asks a fucking straightforward question, one that could be answered in maybe a paragraph. He did not posit the existence or non-existence of either deity, yet somehow it turned into another fucking debate about christianity.
>>1250097
>>>/r/atheism
>>1250101
>>>/shitposting/
>>1250170
>>>/noteventryingtoberelated/
come on, guys, we're better than this. Stick to one argument per thread, pls. :3 <3
>>1250633
Great argument
>>1250642
Humanity can't come from just two people. It's genetically impossible. Because your book says otherwise is what's a poor argument.
>>1250616
>When God created the world everything was good.
>God created Man in his image
>Then the world went to shit
>>1250651
>it's genetically impossible
Holy shit anon, it's almost like we're talking about the all powerful creator of everything. Again, really good argument.
>>1250663
>God can do anything!
Wow you're an honest to goodness retard. Then why isn't he doing magic impossible shit these days, genius? I'll answer for you: because Adam and Eve didn't happen and God probably never existed.
>>1250216
>>1250663
> all powerful creator of everything
God didn't create all humanity, only first humans who are by no standards are all-powerful. Read at least your fantasy before shitposting about story.
>>1250680
I doesn't buy it. What if all of them was born of a virgin? If virgin can give birth to one person, surely she can do that for plenty other persons. Is there any real proof of sexual act being committed?
>>1250680
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0-EgjUhRqA
>>1250746
>Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel (God is with us).
Isaiah 7:14
http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html
>>1250394
>>all that while still not being able to answer if all-powerful being can create a stone too heavy for it to lift
This "argument" has been BTFO over and over, but you people are argue the exact same way Hitler describe Jews arguing in his shitty biography. Just ignore the answer given, and move on
What I don't get is why people insist on searching for indoeuropean and egyptian gods to search the sources of inspiration of the "jesus myth".
Why not search into semitic mythology?
>>1250217
Teleological suspension of the ethical
>>1250803
> This "argument" has been BTFO over and over
With shitty excuses or cop outs like he can do it anyway even if he doesn't, maybe. But with logical solutions? Zero times.
>>1250056
The greek gods are not immortal, they can bleed and die. They come and leave the human world, We can see theme they are present and living like the mortal.
We fear the gods and pray them for mercy. We pray them to have advantage like a contract.
>I pray you and i offer you some stuff, please do that for me
The ancient greek don't think their gods are a shinning and distant god who judge them. The gods are wisdom and powerful not like the human who are more like educated animals whith a little knowledge.
For exemple i see in one of my university's lesson. A tyran, to bring back him on the power of his city her dresse up a stranger woman like the goddess Athena and lead her to the city. She march and have a speech in the city to support the tyrant cause. And everybody was ok. They acclaim her ! They organised a celebration in her honor !
But we have some record of that event who tell us how some contemporary was depress on how their people acting with such credulousy.
(sorry for my english is not my mother tongue)
>>1250828
>i see in one of my university's lesson. A tyran, to bring back him on the power of his city her dresse up a stranger woman like the goddess Athena and lead her to the city. She march and have a speech in the city to support the tyrant cause. And everybody was ok. They acclaim her ! They organised a celebration in her honor
Greeks had Zeus as the personification of nature's wrath. They actually prayed to nature with the sky aspect of it being the supreme.
>>1250356
Taoistic mythology is even cooler...
All religions are mental crutches for the mentally handicaped...
>>1250825
Or copouts like "he can't create logical contradictions."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41lOdQqa3R4
>>1250056
Nope.
For one thing, the Greeks believed their gods were fickle & flighty beings.
Also not as omnipotent as the Jew-God. They were more like immortal supermen.
If you've read Plato's Republic you'd notice how they discuss the matter of gods. In educating young children Socrates and Glaucon discussed wether children should learn about gods to begin with because they meant they were merely fiction. Despite this they still did rituals for the gods 'just in case'. The same reason I go to church in christmas and such is that I don't really believe it but I do the rituals 'just in case'.
>>1252327
>'just in case'.
Pascal you cheeky cunt.
>>1250056
Yes.
>>1252327
Also. If you haven't read it. There's an audiobook torrent link on /t/: >>>/t/698717
It's almost impossible to imagine western civilization without Plato and Aristotle. The latter had such a huge effect on our entire world picture and way of thinking that it's hard to overstate. Consider that empiricism in the modern sense starts with Aristotle, and so does logic and division of sciences. Consider that thinkers in the 17th century had to fight against Aristotelian education since it was THE system, still.
Echoes of Plato can be seen in any monotheistic religion, spiritual tradition and generally any philosophy that talks about the transcendental. Platonic virtues are common knowledge.
The "start with the greeks" meme exists for a reason, nobody in their right mind doubts the importance of Greeks, our whole civilization idolized them. It's like saying that Christendom isn't important.
>>1250828
>>1250893
Peseistratus:
>This second attempt at gaining power was described by Herodotus as "the silliest trick which history has to record.". Dressed in gleaming armor, he arrived in the city accompanied by a tall and beautiful woman, posing as the goddess Athena. The Athenians rejoiced at the arrival of their new leader and the 'goddess' even when they discovered Athena was actually a tall girl called Phye from a local village.
http://www.pbs.org/empires/thegreeks/background/5.html
>>1250056
>Did people from Ancient Greece actually believe Zeus was real the same way modern Christians believe in a Christian God?
From Acts 14:
8 In Lystra there was a man sitting who could not use his feet and had never walked, for he had been crippled from birth. 9 He listened to Paul as he was speaking. And Paul, looking at him intently and seeing that he had faith to be healed, 10 said in a loud voice, ‘Stand upright on your feet.’ And the man sprang up and began to walk. 11 When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, ‘The gods have come down to us in human form!’ 12 Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates; he and the crowds wanted to offer sacrifice. 14 When the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting, 15 ‘Friends, why are you doing this? We are mortals just like you, and we bring you good news, that you should turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all that is in them. 16 In past generations he allowed all the nations to follow their own ways; 17 yet he has not left himself without a witness in doing good—giving you rains from heaven and fruitful seasons, and filling you with food and your hearts with joy.’ 18 Even with these words, they scarcely restrained the crowds from offering sacrifice to them.
Don't think the average Greek was schooled like the Academians, the poets, the tragedians, the sophists, etc.
They were credulous as fuck.
If they weren't credulous as fuck they wouldn't have abandoned their gods.
>>1252403
Again from Acts 17:
22 Then Paul stood in front of the Areopagus and said, “Athenians, I see how extremely religious you are in every way. 23 For as I went through the city and looked carefully at the objects of your worship, I found among them an altar with the inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and everything in it, he who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by human hands, 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mortals life and breath and all things. 26 From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, 27 so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him—though indeed he is not far from each one of us. 28 For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said,
‘For we too are his offspring’
29 Since we are God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of mortals. 30 While God has overlooked the times of human ignorance, now he commands all people everywhere to repent, 31 because he has fixed a day on which he will have the world judged in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead.”
32 When they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some scoffed; but others said, “We will hear you again about this.” 33 At that point Paul left them. 34 But some of them joined him and became believers, including Dionysius the Areopagite and a woman named Damaris, and others with them
How fucking stupid must you be to be a Greek who believes in the resurrection of the dead?
This wouldn't have happened had the Greeks been literate, and had they started with the Greeks.
Yes just read The Apology, Socrates was accused of not believing in the Gods and "poisoning" the youth with his blasphemous beliefs, that's why he was executed.
>>1252403
>implying these things actually happened
>>1250261
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion
>>1250356
Sumerian actually has more in common with Hinduism but yea.
>>1250126
Shut da fuck up
>>1250825
So your only argument is the fact that logical paradoxes exist? Remind me how this proves anything?
>>1253933
It directly proves non-existence of omnipotent god from self-contradiction of his properties. Of course you can say that logic doesn't matter, etc but this would be another pretty predictable shitty excuse.
>>1250932
This part is really important here. I don't know why it isn't being brought up more in the thread.
The Greeks deified nature, that is what all their talk about the gods and the stories they told of them interacting with life on earth was all about. They saw different forces in nature, personalities in the world, and turned them into all kinds of deities, beasts, whatever. They glorified life. They were extremely passionate about life, the good life to be precise.
You don't really see this in ANY other mythology. Not to the extent that the Greeks did it, at least. Any mythologies that came after them and did this, were simply their cultural descendants.
You can even see this in effect in the Pre-Socratics, even Socrates. The difference between them and Plato is that they had strong character and strong bias. They were pure, in a creative sense. Socrates was decadent compared to the Pre-Socratics, but still had their fervor and innocence.
Plato was the point of disaster, warping their creative imagery and deifications of nature into the whole "THESE FORMS ARE REAL GUYS, REAL!" Before him, where in Greek writing do you even see any notion of "this is real" and "this is not real" ? The notion is absent from their culture before Plato for a reason, because they didn't think like that, they were beyond it.
The Greeks lived their mythology, and their mythology was more artistic than anyone else's. Plato and his ilk (Christians), despite all their ranting and raving about "real" things, are living in a deeper, and certainly more corrupt fantasy than the Greeks did.
>>1252489
Yeah, no.
>>1250056
Sure. He even had temples to him that people stopped by regularly.
>>1253972
Do you think God is a slave to His own attributes?
Do you think that God, if He wanted to, could not limit His knowledge to that of an English peasant?
>>1254428
They were just characters in plays, dude. They had human foibles like anyone else.
>>1254442
if he isn't able to be defined by his attributes then don't bother to give him any
>>1254447
That doesn't change what I said though.
>>1252405
>believes in the resurrection of the dead?
Don't you know that with God everything is possible?
>>1255008
Yes, because God is the universe.
>>1254454
You can try to define God by His attributes, but to say that He must always exercise all of His attributes on every single occasion is to call God a slave to His own attributes.
God is no man's slave. He moves His hand when He wants to move His hand.
>>1254602
I'm saying look a little deeper. They deified people, and gave those deified people small domains over which to rule. Pagans always do this. The god of the dead. The god that brings the sun about. The god of the harvest.
>>1255098
God created the universe, and God will destroy the universe.
Blessed be the name of God.
>>1255111
The universe indeed created itself and will destroy itself.
The only thing the christards of /his/ have done here is to convince me that the romans really should have been more thorough in their persecutions.
>>1255118
Logically irrational. But you're free to believe it.
You're just not free from the consequences of such a retarded and misguided belief.
>>1255121
You should join the Catholic Church. They have a place for genocidal maniacs like you.
Did you think we expected the world, you, to treat us better than you treated our leader?
>>1255124
>Logically irrational.
Much like believing in anything that exists outside of the universe, literally outside the realm of existence and possibility.
>>1255131
When I say God made the universe, x ---> y, I presuppose the existence of God, x, to create y.
When you say the universe created itself, y --> y, you cannot presuppose the existence of the universe in order for it to create itself.
It is logically irrational.
>>1255128
>>catholics aren't christians
lol
>>muh persecution complex
lol
>>1255141
>When I say God made the universe, x ---> y, I presuppose the existence of God, x, to create y.
Which is logically irrational, because then you're saying that there was existence prior to the beginning of existence.
The universe is infinite, with no true beginning and no true end. When everything implodes in the "end" it will instantly explode again and start anew. In this sense it creates and destroys itself eternally. It's just a theory based on other observable principles in this universe, but it seems more rational than yours.
>>1255144
I don't find 68,000,000 murders to be funny. Perhaps you do.
>>1255156
No, I'm saying God is eternal.
God being eternal, He precedes and pre-exists the universe that He makes.
Logically rational and consistent, unlike your idiocy of a self-creating universe that just spit you out of nothing.
>>1255160
>No, I'm saying God is eternal.
I'm saying that too. The universe is eternal.
But you're also saying that God exists outside the universe, i.e. the realm of existence. An existence in the realm of non-existence. How is that a "logically rational" theory at ALL?
My point is, you can believe what you want, but don't go saying my shit is logically irrational when yours is laughably so.
>that just spit you out of nothing.
"Nothing" never happened according to my theory. The universe always was.
>>1255185
Nobody thinks the universe is eternal. The Big Bang presupposes the universe has a beginning.
lrn2infiniteregress
lrn2heatdeath
You're a lost fedora flailing for land when none is to be found. You're drowning.
>>1255185
>but don't go saying my shit is logically irrational when yours is laughably so.
y --> y is logically irrational.
Take a math course.
>>1255158
>>more persecution complex funtimes.
I got news for you, protestants are just as capable of oppression and murder as catholics are, just as capable of warfare against unbelievers, just as capable of all the bullshit that christtardation has brought to the world.
>>1255192
>Nobody thinks the universe is eternal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_inflation
http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum-equation-universe.html
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/big-bang-not-start-quantum-theory-suggests-universe-has-existed-forever-1487517
I am not vouching for the validity of these links, but simply showing you that you're wrong on this point.
>>1255193
If y is the set that contains all other sets and variables within those sets, and you are one of those variables within a set within a set within y, why would you think there exists a variable outside the ultimate set? What rationality is behind this curiosity?
>>1250208
It is why /rel/ or /theo/ is needed.
Give us our board if only as a containment board.
>>1255158
>68,000,000 murders
literally never happened
>>1255156
>The universe is infinite, with no true beginning and no true end.
Wrong.
>>1255509
Prove it wrong.
>>1255518
The burden of proof is on you.
>>1255519
I already shared links here >>1255338
Also:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html
>It seems that Quantum theory, on the other hand, can predict how the universe will begin. Quantum theory introduces a new idea, that of imaginary time. Imaginary time may sound like science fiction, and it has been brought into Doctor Who. But nevertheless, it is a genuine scientific concept. One can picture it in the following way. One can think of ordinary, real, time as a horizontal line. On the left, one has the past, and on the right, the future. But there's another kind of time in the vertical direction. This is called imaginary time, because it is not the kind of time we normally experience. But in a sense, it is just as real, as what we call real time. [...] If space and imaginary time are indeed like the surface of the Earth, there wouldn't be any singularities in the imaginary time direction, at which the laws of physics would break down. And there wouldn't be any boundaries, to the imaginary time space-time, just as there aren't any boundaries to the surface of the Earth. This absence of boundaries means that the laws of physics would determine the state of the universe uniquely, in imaginary time. But if one knows the state of the universe in imaginary time, one can calculate the state of the universe in real time. One would still expect some sort of Big Bang singularity in real time. So real time would still have a beginning. But one wouldn't have to appeal to something outside the universe, to determine how the universe began. Instead, the way the universe started out at the Big Bang would be determined by the state of the universe in imaginary time. Thus, the universe would be a completely self-contained system. It would not be determined by anything outside the physical universe, that we observe.
>>1255561
He goes on after that to entertain the concept of inflation and then concludes that the universe in real time did have a beginning, but imaginary time has no boundary, and that the universe will not "end" like we think. But this is all theory, this can change, and if you observe the universe itself, you'll find that every end is a new beginning and every beginning is an end, and nothing TRULY "begins" and "ends," but is simply re-allocated elsewhere (like energy).
So yeah. Your turn.
>>1255518
All the evidence from cosmology points to the Universe having an origin in the fairly recent past (~1 and 2 trillion years ago).
>>1255571
Just theories. No facts neither logic, same as evolution. The burden of proof remains on you.
>>1255580
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
>>1255580
Yeah yeah, burden my ass. Don't be a retard. You know damn well I can't "prove" it beyond citing theories, and providing reasoning. I'd like to see alternative theories and reasoning from you now.
>>1255604
>Yes, theory.
Read the second paragraph.
>>1255604
>I know.
This isn't a conversation, just you baiting. Good job making yourself look like a dipshit.
>>1255748
>still fishing
>>1255771
>giving up
>>1255810
>still fishing
>>1255820
>he actually gave up
gg
>>1256395
>he actually really gave up
no re bro
>>1250056
Ancient Greeks believed the gods lived on Olympus, literally right above them. On Earth.
Sure they were objects of worship, but definitely not transcendental the way our Christian God would be.
Actually, believing in Zeus and cie would be p close to thinking there may be mysteries in the forest near your town, like werewolves or spirits of nature. That's not quite the same. Our abrahamic god operates on a whole different scale.
Just think of it this way: The perspectives of people that lived back then was way smaller. Their boundaries were those of the Greek world. It was their own little world.
As for our own world, there aren't enough grey areas anymore to fit a God in there. You need a transcendental being. You need to think outside the universe, and even then you won't grasp much of His nature at all.
>>1256613
That assumes that your god exists. It also assumes there is only one god or goddess that exists outside the universe.
You have zero real proof for any of these claims.
>>1256613
>our Christian God
>Our abrahamic god
Are you really Christian? You don't sound very Christian.
>>1256626
t. mormon
>OP asks a legitimate question
>the thread is immediately ruined by hair-trigger "christian" trolls
this board needs to be fucking gassed
>>1256626
Don't drag God's question on the tribune of common sense. Proofs and stuff. That'd be presomptuous.
>>1256631
General "our". I'm not including myself in any of this.
>>1256656
In my opinion, legitimate processes of thinking on essential matters such as these operate as an extention of an actual theological premise that doesn't question itself.
You can proceed however you want though, but I can't guarantee any satisfying results.
>>1256656
>skeptic
You're an atheist.
>>1250056
Pagans usually did not take that shit as seriously as later Abrahamic religions. Agnostics and atheists were probably scorned, but they were allowed to exist.
>>1250102
/thread
>>1257058
That doesn't mean they took it less seriously. When you're polytheistic to that extent, the serious thing to do would actually be to welcome all types, including your enemies.
>>1250480
It's not like it's any more retarded than thunder god riding a flying chariot pulled by goats or zombie jew.
I think they did to a certain extent, the way each god explains everything in nature actually seemed correct for a society lacking modern science. One thing is, their religion was really fun. Think about how much we enjoy greek mythology today, they got to live it and party it up with dionysus, Plus their religion was a lot more lax than the Abrahamic religions which took a very serious approach. The reason Christianity spread mainly was because it added the "What if " to the equation. What if there is a god and hell and if you dont covert now, you're fucked forever. Ancient greeks and romans did not really have that end of end all approach to their gods.
>>1250070
he didn't say that brah
>>1250126
Are you saying the god christians believe in doesn't believe in christ?
>>1250101
Wrong.
Historians believe it is possible a preacher named Jesus existed; however, no historian actually agrees that Jesus Christ the Divine son of God who performed miracles and resurrected existed.
The historical Jesus and the mythical Christ would have been so different that to say Christ did not exist is entirely valid.
>>1250184
God created evil.
>>1259404
I'm saying that the Christ is God.
Which is what people like me have been saying for almost 2000 years.
What did you think we meant?
>>1259569
Same guy.
No myth.
>>1255507
More, actually. Millions more.
You know the pope apologized for the Holocaust, yes? JPII?
>>1259946
Nope.
Evil is not a created thing, and God is not the author of evil.
>>1259998
>inb4 someone doesn't know that rah can also mean "calamities" like hurricanes and earthquakes.
>>1250199
Just fuck off mate
>>1259979
Not him, but we all know what you meant. You meant that your God is the only one.
Don't take it personally, but this is why bible thumpers disgust me in general. There is an authoritative cruelty seated at the bottom of their preaching. They move beyond intolerance, because they don't even acknowledge that there are others to tolerate. This is hatred, not love. This is the consumption of others against their will, not the unity of them.
You bible thumpers, despite all your talk about goodness and love, will forever be completely alien to those concepts yourselves. It is because you put all your energy into belief, which is the absence of thought, and never truly know anything about yourselves or anyone around you.
>>1260036
Request denied. Get used to rejection.
>>1260044
Maybe one day you will change your mind.
>>1250239
You didn't realize shit either, except God sayd hi to you and brought you a donut.Until you See "him" you will have to relay on arguments, claims, facts and logic just as we normal people.
>>1260068
What would have to change is my heart, not my mind.
>>1250369
Religion in a nutshell.
>>1260072
At least I got a donut.
>>1260078
Yes, that is the basis for the word "repent". Change your mind, change your heart, and agree with God that you are lost and in need of a savior.
>>1260118
Bible thumpers also have the tendency to enjoy listening to themselves thump.
>>1250616
So.. God ruind it himself.So he is a little shit once again, circle and case closed
>>1260133
Yup. The Word of God does not return void.
>>1260139
So irresponsible.
Satan ruined it for 1/3 of the angels.
Adam ruined it for 100% of the humans.
You: God is to blame.
>>1260139
Nope
You're actions are your fault
You're just a shitty person by choice
>>1260256
>God makes beings who can act independently
>gets so butthurt when they act independently that he damns them to hell for eternity if they do
God is an irresponsible cretin.
>>1250680
That man also is no politcal scientist or any scientist. The amount of people who take comedians as a source for facts is enragingly high.
>Hurr Durr Jon Steward
>Hurr Durr John Oliver
>Hurr Durr Bill Maher
>Hurr Durr Bill O'Riley
