How was North Africa like before Arab conquest?
>>1243177
Why is there a statue of Zeus and a Parthenon in this picture of Carthage?
>>1243182
Cultural enrichment.
>>1243177
Lots of Christians and people still spoke Latin.
>>1243182
Maybe its a picture of Carthage during roman rule
>>1243182
Cultural exchange. Greek-style art was apparently popular amongst punics.
>>1243356
It's not. Why is so surprizing for people that Carthaginians "copied" greeks when Romans and a lot of other peoples did the same constantly?
>>1243369
Exactly, Imean they brpught a spartan general to help them in their war with the romans.
>>1243356
Here's Roman Carthage
>>1243480
And Punic Carthage
>>1243177
In decline. Harbors silted up from poor management, bishoprics evaporated after the chaos of the Vandal and Byzantine wars, Berber raids pushed urban life nearly into the sea, the rise of Constantinople and decline of Rome pushed the anonna in favor of the Eastern Mediterranean and its merchants, and deforestation led to ever growing deforestation.
>>1243177
It was the home of Saint Agustin of Hypona
>>1243483
>those walls
shit son
>>1243177
Roman and Greek influenced coptic culture mixed with tribes and cultures like the Berbers.
Much like it is today, except without Islam to help the people throw off backward pagan and oppressive Christian ideologies.
>In the Summer of 365 AD, a massive tsunami struck North Africa, causing massive damage and thousands of deaths. The cities were devastated and coastal farmlands ruined by seawater. Almost total crop failure precipitated a steep decline in trade. This decline in trade weakened Roman control. Independent kingdoms emerged in mountainous and desert areas, towns were overrun, and Berbers, who had previously been pushed to the edges of the Roman Empire, returned. Then the Vandals took over in the early 5th century and stayed for a hundred and fifty years.
Also, North Africa got completely rekt by climate change
White
>>1243694
More info on the climate change bit?
>>1243483
That marina is pretty impressive
>>1243687
Somebody will fall for this bait eventually.
>>1243177
It was the richest part of the Mediterranean world. I read a couple of studies during my dissertation and Africa (i.e. what is now Tunisia) even under the Vandals was the most urbanised and wealthiest part of the entire west. By the time of the Arab invasion though desertification was kind of fucking the outer areas, and when the Arabs turned up they destroyed the entire area, salted Carthage (again) and gave the land to dumb fuck Arab tribesmen who had no clue how to farm, turning the entire area into a wasteland for the next thousand years.
>>1243177
How were Berbers in the antiquity? What was their relationship with the Romans and everyone else in the Med? What about during time in the empire? Any notable Berber Romans?
>>1244854
>the most urbanised and wealthiest part of the entire west.
I call bullshit. Wealthy, yes; but not the wealthiest and certainly not the most urbanised.
>>1243694
interesting i never heard of this before. I never even knew that the mediterranean could make tsunamis so big.
>>1245095
It was Rome's bread basket for much of its existence as a province, also I remember reading somewhere that it was the most "Roman" outside of Italy
>>1244871
The romans subdued them around 100-45 bc. I think during the empire they paid tribute or the romans bribed them to prevent raiding. I imagine it might have been mutually beneficial for the berbers because the valuable trade with the romans. Dunno any berber romans off the top of my head, but the emperor septimius severus was from modern day libya and possibly had berber ancestry on his mother's side (apart from her punic heritage)
>>1243694
And then the Byzantines pop up and contributed to fucking up North Africa a bit more, just like they had done with Italy and Dalmatia.
Just a pity the Arabs failed to wreck them in the VIII.
>>1245095
Well,which was was the wealthier then?
>>1245381
Fuck the incompetent Byzzies.
>>1243694
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Africa_during_Antiquity
true that
>>1245381
>>1245424
Sorry, you seem to be confused, but the helpful users of 4chan's History and Humanities board are here to gladly help clear this up.
What is often thought of as "Byzantium", "the Byzantines", or "the Byzantine Empire", is actually in fact "the Roman Empire". This is due to the Roman Empire in Constantinople's former status as the Eastern Roman Empire. When the Western Roman Empire was gone, the Eastern Roman Empire became the one and true Roman Empire, and as it was ruled by the Emperor of Rome. Any usage of any form of "Byzantium" is reductive to the dignity of the Roman Empire at this time, and lends credence to the belief that the Western Roman Empire continued in the form of the Holy Roman Empire, which was in fact not holy, not Roman by any reasonable stretch, and not actually an Empire in anything but name. There was also no such office or title as "Emperor of Byzantium" or "Emperor of the Byzantines" at any point in history.
I'm glad to have been helpful in addressing this small matter and I hope you have a good day :)
>>1243177
Roman/Greco for the rich people on the coasts. Berber Maghreb and Egyptian for the others.
>>1245493
>
>
>
By that logic the Eastern 'Roman' Empire wasn't really Roman either since it belonged to the Papal States.
>>1245493
>Roman Empire
>ruled by Greeks
>implying Greeks can do anything right
>>1245493
>already saw this once today
>namechecks Byzantium, Rome, and even the > > >
Is this our first board thread derailment copypasta?
>>1244854
When will the "They salted the Earth" meme end?
>>1243480
>One of the most important cities in the Mediterranean during the ancient period looks like the size of my town of 20,000 people
wew lad
>>1245812
when the false pope is overthrown
>>1245095
I think that fact's more about Egypt than the rest of NA.
>>1243480
nah, here's Roman Carthage
>>1246088
Nope, I was talking about the former province of Africa.
>>1245095
>not the wealthiest and certainly not the most urbanised.
The two go completely hand in hand. And yes, it's true. Cities in Britain pretty much vanished, in Gaul many of them disappeared or shrank substantially as the centre of civilization began to move closer to the Frankish heartland near the Rhine, Hispania became even more of a backwater than it was before and many of its bishoprics vanish, Italy was completely fucked in the mid 6th century but had gone into severe decline long before that. Africa had been virtually unmolested by the chaos that ensued in most of the West after the initial Vandal invasion in the 420-430s, bits of the region were lost to local Mauri which were pretty sophisticated post-Roman kingdoms in their own right, and the Vandals were pretty shitty rulers, but they didn't fuck with the local aristocracy apart from trying to convert them to Arianism. Climate change aside, the region prospered into the 7th century.
>>1244099
Seeing it today makes it even more impressive
