>Within decades after the capture of Constantinople by Mehmed II of the Ottoman Empire on 29 May 1453, some Eastern Orthodox people were nominating Moscow as the "Third Rome", or the "New Rome".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Rome
Seeying as Constantinople is the successor to Rome and Moscow is the successor to Constantinople, it would appear logical that the Russia Empire was indeed Holy, Roman, and an Empire.
>>1237766
Seeing*
Tsar = Caesar
>equal to the apostles
>>1237766
Third Rome was the kingdom of Spain who's kings were sold the title by Andreas Palaiologos the last valid Byzantine claimant to the throne.
>>1237779
Rus nobility had been marrying for generations with Byzantine royalty when Constantinople fell. I'm not one of those autistic experts in royal family tree, but there has got to be some legitimate claims. Father Raphael Johnson, an orthodox priest and scholar, claims that Rome only truly fell when the Jews murdered the last of Romanov emperor in Bolshevik revolution.
>>1237766
kaiser = kaisar = caesar
>>1237819
Byzantines had a very specific hierarchy concerning legitimate heirs. The one that is often cited as Russian claim for Byzantine throne is Ivan III's marriage to Sophia Palaiologina, yet she didn't have any rights to the throne. In fact, Ivan the Terrible used Vladimir II Monomakh's marriage (400 years prior) in his claims, Monomakh really had some rights technically.
However, Rus principalities had agnatic seniority succession rule, meaning the highest position was inherited from the eldest person to the eldest in the bloodline, not to the eldest son. Of course, it was a clusterfuck. The last of many violations of that rule in Muscovy happened during the reign of Vasily II "The Blind", Ivan III's father. After that agnatic seniority rule stopped existing outright. Mind you, Romanovs weren't even related to Rurikids, and I'm not even talking about Holstein-Gottorp-Romanovs.
In other words, no, there are no legitimate claims. Neither did Russia hold any core Byzantium territories. Even religious claims are very dubious since Russian orthodoxy was very different from what was practiced in Byzantium and even in Kiev (hence Nikon's church reforms).
"Third Rome" concept isn't even Russian originally, Second Bulgarian Empire was the first one that pretended for the successor position.
To sum it up, it's all a bunch of mental gymnastics trying to legitimize Russian imperialism, nothing more.
Finland would be the Fourth Rome as the successor of Imperial Russia?
>>1237894
yes
>>1237894
They would have to have a monarch and claimant to the title. Instead they are Republican and mostly atheist.
>>1237906
Maybe Finland could be considered the new Roman Republic?
It's the only part of the Russia Empire that was free of Soviet taint, isn't it?
>>1237873
Succession laws aren't set in stone. By the laws of most European monarchies at the time Ivan III was a legitimate claimant.
>it's another "Succession of the Roman Empire" episode
Please stop this autism, anyway there's nothing "Roman" about Russia, it's a purely Christian orthodox claim and thus disqualify
The Roman Empire died with the Byzantines
>>1238201
>Please stop this autism
no
I will not stop until we find out where Rome is today.
>>1238204
A miserable pile of ruins scattered across parts of Europe
>>1238204
https://www.google.com/maps?q=rome
>>1238204
Dead and buried, R.I.P.
>>1238204
>>1238204
Christendom is Rome's successor state
>>1238204
it's already been established as Finland
it might not have been the answer you wanted, but it's time to bow down to our imperial overlords
>>1238318
>Christendom
Not for long
>>1238204
Rome>Byzantine Empire>Ottoman Empire>Turkey
There turkey is rome and erdogan is the ceaser
>>1238549
If the Ottomans have a claim than so does Italy and the Papacy.
>>1237766
Successor to Rome is an extremely cancerous meme that Europeans should seriously stop. It's Wewuz tier.
I think of HRE, I think of Germans
I think of Russia and I think of Russians.
End of story.
>>1238578
it's not Wewuz tier when it is an actual civilization that our ancestors built that heavily influenced everything after it. "Europeans were Romans" is not a ridiculous revisionist idea being spread by white nationalists on Twitter, it's just a fact.
>>1238578
Shut up nobody cares what you think you nigger ape
>>1238600
>our ancestors built.
Yes, Russia and the whole of Germania were in the Roman fucking empire.
Like i said; WE
>>1238600
Germans destroyed Roman Empire and Russians(then part of proto-balto-slavic people) weren't even known to Romans.
>>1237819
And that doesn't matter because the last person to actually hold the title sold it to another monarch, thus removing any legitimate claims the family that Russians married into might have. Face it vatnik, Spain is the emperor
>>1238600
>an actual civilization that our ancestors built
>"Europeans were Romans"
>it's just a fact
The dangers of autism
>>1238727
>>1238738
>Germania
heavily influenced by Rome, also they did not destroy it stop memespouting
>Russia
heavily influenced by Byzantium
As for the ancestors part, you would have to be kidding yourself if you don't think every modern European is directly descended from Romans. The genetic footprint they left is greater than even the borders of Europe itself.
>>1238748
not an argument
>>1238771
>Influenced.
>WE WUZ BUILT IT!
By that logic, I suppose the Japanese and Koreans built the Chinese empire too?
>>1238779
Japan built it's mass graves
>>1238771
>you would have to be kidding yourself if you don't think every modern European is directly descended from Romans
I don't have to make arguments when you're already playing yourself
>>1238791
Didn't happen. Lies. You listen to Koreans too much.
>>1238795
>barbarians calling themselves Roman
>>1238561
Don't the italians claim it anyway?
Maybe erdogan should just 1 vs 1 the president of italy to solve this.
>>1237819
desu Mehmet II has Roman noble ancestry as well and a blood claim to the throne through his mother
>>1238793
you actually do have to make arguments, because you are being faced with an objective fact. Whether you are a Russian, a Finn, a Breton, or a Irishman you have Roman ancestors. It is not the same thing as West Africans in the United States thinking they are descended from an ancient civilization completely separated from their homeland by the world's largest desert. If any of them do have any sort of distant genetic connection to Ancient Egypt it is most likely because they mixed with whites, ironically. West Africa was also not influenced in any way by Egyptian civilization, and you will not find any sort of cultural, artistic, architectural, or governmental connection between Ancient Egypt and the nations now there.
in other words, the direct descent of modern Europe from Rome is not comparable to some afrocentric Twitter meme you utter colossal fucking idiot.
>>1238771
If thats true the turks have a better claim as their western population is basically converted byzies also turkish culture was ofcourse heavily influenced by the byzantines.
Actually its pretty normal for conquerors to take the conquered's culture in some way while giving back their own.
>>1237894
yes
>>1238739
didn't he sell it to France as well?
>>1238846
Afterwards yes
Which makes that sale a fraud
>>1238887
by that logic the Ottoman's still had the best claim considering they held the throne and most of the former empire
Ottomans, France, and Spain are the most rightful "successors"
>>1238895
Russian Empire is a successor of Rome, Soviet Union destroyed all blood ties and legitimacy of Russia, no longer conquered and held together by the Russian Emperor all the different Russia's have no reason to be together.
The answer is no. There was no third Rome.
>>1238909
Even ruled by the enemies of Rome namely Jews, Soviet Union and its successor Russian Federation is nothing except a beaurocracy and state, it is not a nation.
>>1238912
You're right, Russia was the second Rome because Byzantium was a direct continuation of the first.
>>1237766
The Russian statement is less credible than the Ottoman one. I mean; both dynasties had weddings with the Palaiologos. But the Ottomans at least dominated the territory, and were invested with the title of Caesar by the Ecumenical Patriarch.
Well, Moscow did not become the Third Rome. Just a jumble of tenements in a remote and cold region.
Ottomans will never be successors to Rome because their are not European.
