If the Japanese had discovered America, could they have held off the Spanish colonists?
bump guys, this is what this board is fore
>>1225401
I think it is possible. The Japanese were a collectivist culture which would give them an edge against the Spanish cataholics.
>>1226174
yeah collectivism is pretty much the best
I really hate people who disagree with my government
>>1225401
NO.
Japanese warfare was far inferior even to indian warfare
>>1226190
I also think katanas would be much better suited in the American environment. The Japanese could train Native American mercenaries to ride horses. Surely the Spanish would hesitate to take on such a great army, no?
I don't really get what the issue with these threads are. Stop getting so triggered.
Hahaha no.
At this time, Spanish army was at his peak and had the best military across Europe.
Think about it, Spain had veterans from the reconquista (Just ended the same year) + the best technology in warfare. Maybe and only maybe ottomans could be a real problem from Spain, and ottomans didint need to "discover" America.
>>1225401
No. Mexico was much closer to Europe in terms of sail-time than to East Asia. If any kind of colonists from Japan were able to make it to America without dying, it would be much harder for them to resupply than it was for Europeans, and that's saying something.
Also, I think that Native American metaphysics and Japanese metaphysics are pretty much the same. Both cultures are also honour based. How could any European nation possible oppose this magnitude of a force? I think it cannot.
>>1226236
To which native american tribe or nation are you refering to?
>>1226224
>Spain had veterans from the reconquista (Just ended the same year) + the best technology in warfare
The Japanese had Divine Winds and katanas. Plus in this situation they had better ships than the SPanish, since they got to America first.
>>1226236
Yeah that was kind of stupid of me, I should've been more specific. I mean the Apache notion of usen and the Sioux notion of wakan orenda are similar to Japanese Shinto.
>>1226265
>divine winds
>in the middle of the fucking sonora desert
>>1226265
Wow dude, please dont shitpost.
Portugal and Spain had the best knowledge of the sea at that time, its stupid to doubt it. Again, talking about actual army, only ottomans could be a threat to Spain in the whole world, Castilla and Aragon were swimming in gold at that time, plus the were very experienced troops as I said.
If somehow, one of the strong generals was teleported to the Americas, yes.
Unlike the Americans, they had immunity to the old world diseases.
But they didn't have the means of going to America.
>>1226224
The Ottomans were stronger than the Spaniards at the time. The Ottomans could project their power even against Charles V's realm.
The Chinese at the time were even stronger.
>>1226310
>The Ottomans could project their power even against Charles V's realm
And then what happened Mehmet? Lepanto!
>>1226310
In 1492? Yeah, in the very next years? I dont think so.
Btw China could suck a ball, they had no interest on anything outside from China.
>>1226284
>what are sandstorms
Faggot, read Dune, deserts are windy
>>1226287
The Samurai would have bred with the Aztecs, there would be a super-race of Flower Warrior Samurai dominating the entire New World. The Japanese knew how to use guns, too. It wouldn't just be katanas, bushido would be on full display.
>>1226357
And yeah, japs could outperform apaches during a sandstorm.
>>1226378
Yeah they really could
Are you implying they couldn't?
I doubt the Japanese would be interested in ruling over the Americas.
>>1226633
What do you exactly mean when you say "Japanese"? The rulers? The whole population of Japan? I know that Japan at one point turned isolationist, but why wouldn't they change their minds?
>>1226802
He obviously means the entire kokutai, kami and all
>>1226802
They turned isolationists precisely as a result of the Spanish and Portuguese attempts to cuck Japan with the Jesus religion and the political implications thereby implied. And in fact several daimyo factions converted and were supplied and influenced by the Spanish from the Phillipines during the feudal wars of the XVI until Tokugawa-senpai finally cucked all the feudal lords into submission, expelled the missionaries, prohibited christianism, burned/crucified the Japanese christians and completely shut Japan's doors, except for a little cuckold in Nagasaki harbour in which the Dutch were allowed to dock, unload their merchant cargo and fuck off from Glorious Nippon right away.
Retarded thread is retarded.
>>1226902
Why don't you just use the word "Christianity?"
>>1226902
So if they discover the Americas before that event, what is the problem? And if they closed the doors, who says they would not be interested in the Americas (as allies, or colony)? Think out of the box desu.
>>1226915
>"they"
There was no "they" in the first place. There was the Holy Roman Empire of the Nippon Country until Tokugawa happened.
>>1226936
You don't know anything about the HRE other than the Voltaire meme, do you? What you wrote makes no sense.
>>1226942
Or maybe you just don't know jack shit except memes and more memes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasekura_Tsunenaga
>>1226962
What is the significance of this man? I don't understand what it has to do with the HRE.
>>1226969
The fact that he was sent as a diplomatic envoy by a random feudal Japanese lord (this guy to be more precise https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_Masamune) acting independently and without giving a flying fuck about whatever 'superior authority in Japan' would think about.
There's your striking similarity with the HRE.
>>1226203
Katana are not great swords.
>>1227062
>There's your striking similarity with the HRE.
That's why I called you a memer. Please, make this similarity more explicit.
>>1227069
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.
Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.
Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.
Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.
So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:
(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork
(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork
Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?
tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in d20, see my new stat block.
>>1227100
Where is this pasta from. It's my first time seeing it.
>>1226340
Nobody is going to deny that Lepanto was a great victory, but the only reason it's so celebrated is because the Spanish recognized that the Ottomans were the top dog at the time. Nobody is impressed by someone wiping the floor with a weak shit tier power, and the people who talk shit about the Ottomans only denigrate the achievements of Europeans like the Spanish or Austrians. If the Ottomans were trash then the victories weren't impressive. As it turns out the Ottomans weren't trash, and it was an incredible victory against a major power that the Spanish should be proud of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1582_Cagayan_battles
>>1227129
It's an old pasta from /tg/
Why do people make fun of this thread when it is actually an interesting topic?
>>1226224
Across Europe. Not so much in Asia.
In the Philippines, the Spanish trembled whenever they angered either China or Japan, particularly Hideyoshi's ultimatum in 1593 or Koxinga's ultimatum in 1640something. The only reason spics still had the place is because Hideyoshi chose to attack Korea instead and Koxinga died of malaria.
Not to mention the Spanish already had major problems dealing with East Asian pirates alone. Limahong and his japanese buttbuddy, "Capitan Sioco,"nearly established a Pirate Kingdom in the bloody Philippines had it not been for Ming & Native assistance of Spanish forces.
>>1228427
The other way round. The Tokugawa-aligned Japs were initially fearful of a Spanish invasion seeing as how Spanish influence and missionary activity was infiltrating Japan and established political relations with many feudal lords.
However, neither side was interested in war with the other. Japan wanted to regulate trade with Spain and keep the missionaries under control to stop spreading Christianism. Spain wanted to bring Japan under its political and commercial orbit and spread Christianity in Japan, also as a way to 'westernize' Japan and bridge the cultural gap. Japan was seen as the potential ally in a future joint invasion of China, who was perceived as the strongest power in the region, but also the biggest bounty.
Piracy was always a common thing in the SEA seas, chinese, malays, borneans were just as much into it as the japs. But piracy alone didn't pose a threat to proper Spanish presence in the Phillipinnes, which back then was pretty much reduced to Manila anyway.
>>1228539
>Other way around.
Fearful of Spanish missionaries =/= fear of their military capabilities.
Japan's conservative elites operated on the notion that anyone not-Japanese (or rather, Non-East Asian) is a Barbarian piece of shit up to no good.
Meanwhile, on the other hand, during Hideyoshi's ultimatum, Spain halted all campaigns versus the Muslims in Southern Philippines to fortify Manila, which led to their survival to this day in the Philippines.
>However, neither side was interested in war with the other.
True, pretty much.
>Piracy was always a common thing in the SEA seas, chinese, malays, borneans were just as much into it as the japs. But piracy alone didn't pose a threat to proper Spanish presence in the Phillipinnes, which back then was pretty much reduced to Manila anyway.
It did. I just gave you Limahong's crew.
And in another funny note: Spain halted operations versus Muslims in the South of the Philippines AGAIN when Koxinga threatened to invade the place so he can build a Chinese kingdom of the Seas in order to retake Mainland China from the Qing Manchus. He just BTFO the shit out of the Dutch, and he was preparing to attack the Philippines until he died of Malaria and his complacent sons chose to become King n Shiet of a Chinese Kingdom in Taiwan.
You mean pre-sengoku?
The Ashikaga was quite frankly too weak to be able to organize something like a colonization drive imo
During the Sengoku Period, people were more busy trying to unify the land to organize something like a colonization drive.
By post-sengoku America has ben colonized and the Japan has been locked from the world
>>1228418
How is it interesting? Moreover, how can we have a meaningful discussion about this counterfactual scenario? I'm seriously asking you how such a discussion can be held on this board.
