Is there a real blood link between the nomad jews of the babylonian ages and the guys who claim to be jews nowadays?
>>1224054
Yes.
They all come from the Kingdom of Judah. Atleast the bloodlined ones.
>>1224068
Do the us mtDNA to show this?
>>1224068
>mfw it's Arab blood
>mfw religion doesn't have a blood type
>mfw Muslims have same blood as Jews
>>1224165
No.
But I said so.
>>1224165
the matrilineal tradition is actually fairly recent as far as Jewish history goes
besides, the Y chromosome is entirely acceptable for proving a genetic link, and all converts to Judaism are treated identically to other Jews once the process is complete
I mean they can't marry Cohens but Cohens also can't marry divorcees
>>1224176
You understand literally nothing about Judaism
It's what's known as an ethno-religious people group. There are multiple Jewish ethnicities and one Jewish faith (albeit with different "branches"). One can be of the Jewish ethnicity without being a practicing member of the Jewish faith, and one can be of the Jewish religion without being ethnically Jewish.
>>1224220
>as far as Jewish history goes
Implying there's something real.
No the original jews were proud black african kangs
>>1224226
I understand plenty about Judaism and mitochondrial DNA didn't start existing at the advent of Hebrew faith or ethnicity. Those people, in that era, were exactly the same as all the other surrounding people. They were from various human migrations, predominantly from the Arab peninsula.
>inb4 creationism
no.
>>1224220
It started in Babylon.
>>1224688
Unironically asserting mitochondrial DNA, inferring mitochondrial Eve, while denying actual Eve.
Ponderous.
>>1224695
no. no. no. no. no. n n n n no.
"Mitochondrial Eve" was not "Biblical Eve". If you believe in Biblical Eve, fine, but "she" would have lived 50 thousand years later, at minimum, depending whose research you're reading.
>>1224699
No, she's Eve; you idiots just have the timeline wrong.
>Always be wrong.
>Assure everyone you're right this time.
>Wrong again.
>>1224054
You say nomad Jews @ Babylon as though that were a thing. The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by Babylon; millions died; many were taken into captivity. They weren't "nomads".
And yes, there's a "link". Jews who care about their lineage, about their inheritance rights, marry Jews. Always have, always will. And they can trace that lineage back thousands of years.
It's important to them because the Promised Land, Israel, was given to them by tribe, and each person in the tribe gets some land, which is the source of all wealth. But only if they can prove their claim to it.
Aside, the bible proves that there are at least 12,000 young male virgins from each of 12 tribes, as those young men will be the Elect during the Tribulation, preaching the gospel to a world gone mad.
>>1224695
also, just a fyi, not like anyone cares, but I "believe" in Biblical eve as "the first woman into which God breathed life, or a soul", but I don't believe in the understood interpretation of creationism. I believe Genesis was God's explanation to us as early, less-than-understanding people, as a parent does when vaguely and briefly explaining scientific phenomena to four-year-olds. I don't "deny" biblical Eve, I just don't understand the narrative as you do.
>>1224705
That's fine, dude. It's part of your belief system. I shouldn't be fucking with it.
>>1224716
Keep reading it until you do.
>>1224720
Unchallenged beliefs stagnate and die. It's because the christian worldview is so robust that it's trivial to discuss absolutely anything with absolutely anybody.
>>1224710
>The Kingdom of Israel was conquered by Babylon
I think you meant Judah
>>1224721
No thanks. I enjoy my archaeology, geology and anthropology without the flavor of confirmation bias. My metaphysical understanding is just fine.
>>1224731
The southern kingdom housed all of the Jews, and you forgot to nitpick "Ephraim" with Judah.
We can do this all day.
>>1224732
Since when did the truth become "confirmation bias", and why would anyone clutch onto that belief?
>>1224735
of course it housed all the Jews, hince why it's called Judah. you can find the southern kingdom refered to as Judah and the northern kingdom as Israel in Kings and Chronicles. don't be retarded
>>1224741
It's called Judah because it's Judah's tribe, Judah being the son of Jacob/Israel.
Let me guess. You're one of those "the Jews then are not the Jews now" type of folk, throwing "Ashkenazi!" in at random intervals in your ranting and ravings.
>>1224068
>They all come from the Kingdom of Judah.
Revelation 7
And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
Those are all from Judah, huh.
>>1224755
This guy doesn't even know his own faith's Old Testament, comes here with not only faith opinion, but fucked up, invented, not-even-faith conjecture. If you choose to be creationist, fine, but please find a minister or priest that has read old testament, and come back later.
>>1224755
>Let me guess. You're one of those "the Jews then are not the Jews now" type of folk, throwing "Ashkenazi!" in at random intervals in your ranting and ravings
Nah, I'm not Jewish religiously, culturally or genetically. I just saw you made a mistake and corrected it. I don't understand why you got so butthurt about this and had to try to one up me
>>1224176
> he thinks that Judaism is just a religion
>>1224759
those are Israelites, dumbass. Jews are called Jews because they are from the tribe of Judah
>>1224769
Nobody in this thread said, "Judaism is just a religion", but an insinuation was made the "original Jews" were Arabs. Unfuck your argument if you're going to posit my own position back at me.
>>1224762
Your ignorance is astonishing.
Judah is named after Judah.
>>1224765
You forgot to rant Ashkenazi! at any point in your ridiculous assertions.
>>1224784
why the fuck would I?
>>1224782
That wasn't my argument, dood. I'll tell you my position, Israel was defeated by the Mesopotamian empire under the Assyrians, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Mesopotamian empire under the Chaldeans.
Holy fuck balls, you're spinning your wheels and swinging at air.
>>1224778
The bible disagrees with you. As usual. And again, no Ashkenazi!?
2 Kings 25:25 But it happened in the seventh month that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah, the son of Elishama, of the royal family, came with ten men and struck and killed Gedaliah, the Jews, as well as the Chaldeans who were with him at Mizpah.
Ezra 4:12 Let it be known to the king that the Jews who came up from you have come to us at Jerusalem, and are building the rebellious and evil city, and are finishing its walls and repairing the foundations.
Ezra 4:23 Now when the copy of King Artaxerxes’ letter was read before Rehum, Shimshai the scribe, and their companions, they went up in haste to Jerusalem against the Jews, and by force of arms made them cease.
Nehemiah 1:2 that Hanani one of my brethren came with men from Judah; and I asked them concerning the Jews who had escaped, who had survived the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem.
>>1224787
Ashkenazi! Ashkenazi! Ashkenazi!
There, I did it for you.
>>1224789
>Who are the Babylonians, the post.
>>1224790
I fail to see how any of these Bible passages show that all Israelites are Jews. by definition Jews are from the tribe of Judah, only one of the tribes of Israel
The Levant saw many waves of migration. The Israelites are surely a mixture of peoples.
This doesn't even contradict the Bible. The Bible talks of an influx from Egypt, but admits that the people didn't obey God's commands and fell to marrying with Canaanites and whoring after their gods.
There is a multiple centuries span of co-habitation between Canaanites and Isrealites in the Bible and the archaeological record.
Anyhow, Terra and Abraham came from Sumeria. But the Jews married women of Egypt. They are a hodge podge in the Bible so why would you expect differently?
>>1224792
are you involved in some conspiracy theory I'm unaware of? if you could clarify what nonsense you are trying to push by claiming I have something against Ashkenazi Jews I would much appreciate it
>>1224798
>I am blind and cannot see, the post.
Blinded by anti-semetism. Such a shame. Back to your containment board, /pol/ scum!
>>1224806
>Ashkenazi Jews
And there it is, folks!
>>1224054
The Babylonian migration occurred after a long period of Jewish existence.
People can convert to Judaism, so they won't all be descended from the same people. The Romans dispersed them.
Jews were like 10% of the Empire at one point. I remember reading that if it wasn't for conversions to Christianity and Islam there would be like 200 million Jews today.
>>1224793
"The Babylonians" doesn't really mean jack. It's all the same people with different seats of power. In 2300bc the same people were Akkadians because the seat of power was Akkad. in 1800bc the same people were Babylonians because the seat of power was in Babylon. In 800bc the same people were Assyrians because the seat of power was in Ashur. In 600bc the same people were referred as Babylonians because the seat of power was back in Babylon, under the control of the Chaldean dynasty. Please stop. You don't have the back to carry this to me.
>>1224818
There is what? that's what they're called. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Do you think the Ashkenazi are not Jews?
>>1224818
Not the other poster.
What is offensive about this?
Jews in the diaspora developed their own cultures in different regions of the world. They also look different due to inbreeding and conversions. I don't get why it is wrong to acknowledge this.
The historical record of Judaisms existence from Roman times on is well established due to their high literacy rates and focus on texts.
>>1224816
kek, I'm not anti-Semitic. If you are going to use bible verses use some of your own words to clarify what point you are trying to make with them instead of being a lazy fuck who just dumps a bunch of verses
>>1224821
As a matter of fact, "the Babylonians", which you "might" take to specifically mean "resident of Babylon proper" were in revolt against the Assyrians in the period Israel was defeated, so no, you're understanding doesn't even hold in that respect.
>>1224821
>I didn't really forget about them, honest injun.
>>1224823
>Do you think the Ashkenazi are not Jews?
More pure /pol/ spreading throughout /his/.
Do we have any mods?
>>1224837
Your claim: Jews are only from Judah.
Bible: Speaks collectively of all of Israel being Jews.
Your claim: busted.
You: shamed.
Your future: bleak.
>>1224842
wat? I was asking if you thought that
>>1224845
nope, you aren't familiar with the exile of the northern tribes of Israel when the Assyrians conquered it. you obviously haven't read Kings.
>>1224851
You're right about the chronology of Kings but I think the Bible does use the Hebrew for Jews to refer to Israelites collectively a few times before the destruction of Israel.
>>1224851
Yeah, but for the part where I said they went to the southern kingdom.
Can you read, and if so, why don't you?
Origins of the Words "Jew" and "Judaism"
The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews. The word "Hebrew" (in Hebrew, "Ivri") is first used in the Torah to describe Abraham (Gen. 14:13). The word is apparently derived from the name Eber, one of Abraham's ancestors. Another tradition teaches that the word comes from the word "eyver," which means "the other side," referring to the fact that Abraham came from the other side of the Euphrates, or referring to the fact Abraham was separated from the other nations morally and spiritually.
Another name used for the people is Children of Israel or Israelites, which refers to the fact that the people are descendants of Jacob, who was also called Israel.
The word "Jew" (in Hebrew, "Yehudi") is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the tribes of Israel, which was named after him. Likewise, the word Judaism literally means "Judah-ism," that is, the religion of the Yehudim. Other sources, however, say that the word "Yehudim" means "People of G-d," because the first three letters of "Yehudah" are the same as the first three letters of G-d's four-letter name.
Originally, the term Yehudi referred specifically to members of the tribe of Judah, as distinguished from the other tribes of Israel.
>>1224875
However, after the death of King Solomon, the nation of Israel was split into two kingdoms: the kingdom of Judah and the kingdom of Israel (I Kings 12; II Chronicles 10). After that time, the word Yehudi could properly be used to describe anyone from the kingdom of Judah, which included the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi, as well as scattered settlements from other tribes. The most obvious biblical example of this usage is in Esther 2:5, where Mordecai is referred to as both a Yehudi and a member of the tribe of Benjamin.
In the 6th century B.C.E., the kingdom of Israel was conquered by Assyria and the ten tribes were exiled from the land (II Kings 17), leaving only the tribes in the kingdom of Judah remaining to carry on Abraham's heritage. These people of the kingdom of Judah were generally known to themselves and to other nations as Yehudim (Jews), and that name continues to be used today.
In common speech, the word "Jew" is used to refer to all of the physical and spiritual descendants of Jacob/Israel, as well as to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac and their wives, and the word "Judaism" is used to refer to their beliefs. Technically, this usage is inaccurate, just as it is technically inaccurate to use the word "Indian" to refer to the original inhabitants of the Americas. However, this technically inaccurate usage is common both within the Jewish community and outside of it, and is therefore used throughout this site.
>DNA
>belief
>caring about genetics
so far behind......
>>1224710
>144,000 male virgins
Holy shit, 4chan was the Jews all along
