Is this the most unlikable empire in history?
Ignoramus here, why would the Austro-Hungarian empire be hated?
If numerous Europa Universalis sessions suggest anything, yes. REMOVE HABSBURGS.
>>1216811
Butthurt Slavs.
I should know, I'm one of them
>>1216826
What is it with Slavs and having a massive victim complex
No, this is
>>1216847
this
not even turks like it.
>>1216838
Too many fresh wounds, most of them were under foreign rule for centuries before modern times and then lost large percentages of their population in recent wars. The ones that were mostly spared (Czechs etc.) tend to be pretty well adjusted. Give it another century or two and the rest should catch up.
>>1216820
I have gone to war with Austria no less than 7 times in my current game. Fuck Austria forever.
>>1216811
It's a tumor in Europe that tries to hold onto non german lands because it's been in one incestuous family for centuries
>>1216811
The precursor to modern multiculturalism
>>1216804
Depends on whom you ask. Poland was partitioned between Russia, Prussia/Germany, and Austria.
Poles from the Russian partition hate the fucking Mongol-spawned Muscovites and want to enshrine hatred of Russia as the central dogma of Polish national identity.
Poles from the German partition hate the fucking genocidal Prussian cunts, blew up all the Bismarck towers they could get their hands on, Bydgoszcz Bloody Sunday best day of my life.
Poles from the Austrian partition continue hanging portraits of Habsburgs in their city halls, proudly renovate inscriptions saying which Emperor commissioned a particular public building, give state funerals to Habsurgs (I've attended one in 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI9shfJioqo), jokingly use the expression "za cysorza" ("in the emperor's (time)") to mean "in the good old days", and have wet dreams involving an alt-history where the right side won the Austro-Prussian War.
I'm a Pole from Żywiec and my grandma still has a portrait of Franz Joseph on the wall.
>"When I attempted to find a simple formula for the period in which I grew up, prior to the First World War I hope that I convey its fulness by calling it the Golden Age of Security. Everything in our almost thousand year-old Austrian monarchy seemed based on per- manency, and the State itself was the chief guarantor of this stability. The rights which it granted to its citizens were duly confirmed by parliament, the freely elected representative of the people) and every duty was exactly prescribed. Our currency, the Austrian crown circulated in bright gold pieces an assurance of its immutability. Everyone knew how much he possessed or what he was entitled to what was permitted and what forbidden. Everything had its norm its definite measure and weight. He who had a fortune could accurately compute his annual interest. An official or an officer for example, could confidently look up in the calendar the year when he would be advanced in rank, or when he would be pensioned. Each family had its fixed budget, and knew how much could be spent for rent and food, for holidays and entertainment; and what is more, invariably a small sum was carefully laid aside for sickness and the doctor's bills, for the unexpected. Whoever owned a house looked upon it as a secure domicile for his children and grandchildren; estates and businesses were handed down from generation to generation. When the babe was still in its cradle, its first mite was put in its little bank, or deposited in the savings bank, as a "reserve” for the future. In this vast empire everything stood firmly and immovably in its appointed place, and at its head was the aged emperor; and were he to die, one knew (or believed) another would come to take his place, and nothing would change in the well-regulated order. No one thought of wars, of revolutions, or revolts. All that was radical, all violence, seemed impossible in an age of reason."
Stefan Zweig
Even Jews liked Austria-Hungary.
>>1217044
Sounds like Complacency: The Empire
>>1217006
>jokingly use the expression "za cysorza" ("in the emperor's (time)") to mean "in the good old days"
On that note, does anyone have a copy of Kołakowski's "My Correct Views on Everything"? Apparently it was released in English in 2005.
In the Polish original a humorous definition he gives for "Conservatism" was something like "it's never been as good as in emperor's Franz's days again".
>>1217044
And then they tried to destroy the world with WW1.
This one is pretty bad.
>>1216847
This one too.
>>1217082
Some Asians actually like the Japs because at least they expelled the Europeans.
>>1217044
>Even Jews liked Austria-Hungary.
>He who had a fortune could accurately compute his annual interest
Of course they did, of course they did.
>>1217098
only for the short time between europeans leaving and japs arrving
>>1217098
only revisionist fedoras.
>>1216847
Byzantine should've won.
The one that caused the most butthurt? Nippon, Aztecs, UK, USSR, Rome (Celts weren't too happy to vanish) America if you count it. All good choices.
The most tasteless? Brazilian "Empire"
>>1219085
Oh wait scratch all those. Ottoman Empire. Bar none. Not even Germany or USSR can compete. Had an entire continent absolutely butthurt for centuries.
>>1217232
t. Uneducated mong
I am sure that other empires like Russian, British, Ottoman or even German was hated more. This is because they actually fucked up with everyone as they was relevant in their time. Austria was meme.
Nice try, but we all know >the >real >answer
england
>>1219085
>Celts weren't too happy to vanish
how do you know?
>>1216804
>Balkanproblems.
>>1216979
>hurr, the Habsburgs got their empire through dynastic marriges
yeah, that's so much worse then conquering other countries, killing thousands like every other empire did. how dare they establish an empire in a peaceful manner?
>>1219463
> peaceful
Bohemia, Poland, Bosnia and Italy weren't taken in peaceful way.
And don't forget it was Austro-HUNGARIAN empire. Hungarians weren't too peaceful either.
It was certainly the most comfy empire.
>>1216847
/thread
>>1219508
>Hungarians weren't too peaceful either.
as a magyar yeah, magyarisation was a mistake
but the Empire also had the most liberal system in Europe, even if it looks fucked up from today standards, there were big religious freedom, ethnic schools were allowed if the minority was at least 20% etc.
if federalization happened it could had survived
>>1219612
If that Serbian dick didn't shot Archduke and just waited few years there could have been Austro-Hungarian-slavic empire. Instead all we got was failed empire and two world wars.
>>1219623
I'm not from eastern Europe or Balkan.
fuck Ottoman Empire
>Ayy, Franz Joseph. What kinda country you want, famm?
The Austrian Empire was the sexiest empire in history,
That Hungarian comprimise business was pretty shit though.
>>1217793
Go home Greek you are acting like empire again.
>>1219677
Brasilian empire was sexiest.
>>1217044
>lemberg
Everything was build by Poles and renovated by Austrians.
Fuck ukrainians.
>>1216811
>Austro
>Hungarian
>Empire
I mean, the name already makes them look pretentious
>>1219695
Fuck off
>>1216804
No. Its a regional "empire" if anything. It has no global impact that other empires had.
Jesus fuck, the retardation of this thread. Austria was a bedrock of European stability and culture and removing it was retarded.
>le inbreeding
go back to /int/ you shitheads.
>>1220174
As an Austrian I have to agree with this.
Dank memes aside, how is it possible to >hate< Austria-Hungary? It was at best a bedrock for the region and at worst merely static.
It was Slavic nationalism that ruined everything. Look how Yugoslavia turned out.
>>1217006
That's really interesting, you don't really associate Poles with the Austrian Empire very strongly, so I'm surprised there is so much of a mark there still from them.
>>1217075
*serbs tried to destroy the world
>>1216811
Because outside of austrians and czechs, all the inhabitants considered it a plague. It also considerably shitted up a good half of the lands it took over.
Adding the fact that it wasn't glorious in any sense, it lacks boos, so only neutrals and haters are left.
>>1220210
First sentence and you already show you know nothing.
>>1220193
4chan is full of nationalists, and although there is nothing wrong with nationalism the nations of A-H have a lot in common in terms of cuisine, politics, and culture. Just look at all the Slavic and Magyar loanwords that made it into Austian German. But people don't see that, and dismiss it as another "sick man of Europe" standing in the way of nationalism and proof of multiculturalism's failure.
Also there is a lot of disinfo on the topic of the empire's collapse, the assessment after WWI was generally that A-H was "doomed to fail", while recent works have pretty much collapsed that theory. Most of the Empire's minorities wanted nothing more than autonomy, and were fairly ambivalent or cynical towards full independence.
So basically, memes.
>>1220210
>Because outside of austrians and czechs, all the inhabitants considered it a plague.
How about you pick up a book sometime, you fucking retard.
>>1220220
Your nose is a biohazard at this point Pinocchio.
>>1220237
not an argument
>>1220239
You didn't make an argument either lad.
>>1220226
>serbs hated it
>croats hated it
>hungarians and wanted to secede
>Italians wanted out
Poles and germans loved it from what I know. Don't know how czechs and slovaks were doing at the time.
>>1220246
They wanted autonomy. Romanians and ukies also hated it, maybe the most out of all of them.
>>1219122
>most unlikable empire
>empire
>>1220246
Czechs wanted Austria-Bohemia-Hungary, and Slovaks were mud farming, knowing nothing about the world around.
>>1220246
>serbs
weren't even a part of it
>croats
no
>hungarians
no, they had one revolution, that isn't indicative of anything, and in fact the Hungarian nobility was the a major conservative force in the empire.
>Italians
I'll give you that
>czechs
autonomy
>slovaks
did not really possess a national conciousness
>>1220265
>serbs weren't part of it
Kys
>>1220265
>one revolution
>>1220269
Oh, you're talking about the Serbs that migrated into Hungary to get away from the Ottomans. yeah I'm sure they "hated" the empire.
>>1220197
It was the smallest of the three partitions, especially after the Austro-Prussian war where the Prussians took over a fair part of Polish-speaking territories from the Austrians.
Still, the Russians and Prussians could be quite repressive and had Russification/Germanisation programs going, amplified by differences in religion (Poles were mostly Catholic like the Austrians, and Bismarck's Kulturkampf REALLY soured the mood).
Meanwhile in the latter days of the Austrian partition Poles had a degree of autonomy, had their own schools, were represented in the Imperial Parliament, and could rise to high offices (e.g. Gołuchowski or Badeni).
Also after the war some of the Habsburgs ended up taking up Polish citizenship and serving in the Polish military against the Soviets in 1918 and the Nazis in 1939. They refused German citizenship from the Nazi government and were even sent to labor camps.
>>1220288
How retarded are you honestly? 1 to 10, easy scale, even for you, gimme a number.
>>1220294
Why is it that when it comes to Austria everybody all of a sudden thinks radical ultranationalists are representative of entire populations? Serbs were an insignificant part of Austria. They were a minority of a minority.
>>1220306
I'm gonna go with 8 since you obviously know how to type coherent albeit retarded statements.
>>1220294
not an argument. Serbs were not even a remotely important population within the empire. 4% of the population during that time period. You are retarded.
>>1220326
>4%
>not even a remotely important population
4% is a decent amount. The Muslim population of Germany is less than 4%. The Muslim populations of Sweden, the Netherlands and the UK are all around 5%.
They still are the subject of daily discussions there. Before the Nazis came to power, less than 1% of the population was Jewish. They still caused a lot of commotion.
>>1220265
>serbs
Represented a significant enough part of the population and their pro-yugoslavic policy had an effect on the entire empire.
>croats
Yeah, I'm sure being split between Hungary and Austria and kept unindustialized and undeveloped was a fun time for them. Not to mention the germanization and magyarization
>hungarians
Were itching for independence for some time. The revolution didn't just spring out of nowhere
>>1220263
Were/are the slovaks just Czech's dumb little cousins? How did they not develop a national consciousness by the 19th century?
>>1220437
that is because are taking over our major cities, not throwing occasional temper tantrums in some backwater province.
>>1220448
>Were itching for independence for some time.
No they were not, 1848 was a dead end and had occurred the same amount of time in the past that World War II was to us today in 1914. Nobody cared.
>Yeah, I'm sure being split between Hungary and Austria and kept unindustialized and undeveloped was a fun time for them.
What the fuck do you mean "kept"? Was Croatia going to be an economic/industrial powerhouse otherwise? This is a country that had not been independent since 40 years after the Norman conquest of England, they were content with their position and even intervened against Hungary in 1848.
I have never seen a single shred of evidence that indicates any part of the empire besides the Italians, Serbs, and maybe Ruthenians and Rumanians wanted to leave before 1914. It's a post-war fallacy not founded on fact but nationalist delusion.
>Represented a significant enough part of the population
They were sub-five percent of the population.
WHAT ABOUT SLOVENES
>>1220460
They are demographically "taking over" major cities because that's the most logical place for them to live. It's not some sort of collective hive-mind. Little to no cries for separatism. At most you have a few guys who blow themselves up or advocate for Sharia. That's nothing compared to militant separatism.
The Austro-Hungarians had to deal with that kind of separatism (guerrilla-fighting and all) a lot. They were quite good at dealing with it too, look up what they did in Bosnia.
>>1216811
It sucked. Look at how many times Napoleon kicked their ass, or how they did in WW1. Vienna was a great city but otherwise the "Empire" was a pretty big joke.
>>1220515
Who the fuck looks at history like this? Are you 12?
>>1217098
They did that and then feigned interest in independence movements while in reality being even more oppressive than the European colonist predecessors. The Japanese were pretty atrocious. The best thing I can say about them is that they pretty much learned their ways from the West and copied them well.
Never forgetthi lads
>>1220513
The question was whether these militant nationalist groups represented the interests of the majority of the population, and in most cases they have been shown to not have a popular mandate. With exceptions.
>>1220541
In 1878 there were 80k people who resisted. Of course they were massively aided by the Ottomans, but if 80k men are willing to fight (and I doubt the population of the Balkan was that big at the time), then something is up.
>>1220566
that's not insignificant but it's a bit of a fringe example considering the religious and cultural differences involved. Bosnia was hardly a "core" part of the empire and even that withstanding that hardly seems like a majority of fighting age male Bosniaks out of a population of 1,300,000.
Nonetheless I would concede I am on shaky ground making these arguments about Bosnia. Slovenia and Croatia would be better examples.
>>1220448
>germanization
Literally what
>>1220699
This.
Austria didn't really dabble in Germanisation as a policy like Prussia/Germany did. The Habsburgs were resigned to ruling a multicultural empire based on monarchist rather than nationalist ideals.
>>1220537
>>1219508
>Bohemia ... weren't taken in peaceful way
But it was. Unless you think the Habsburgs had not ruled Bohemia for a hundred years before the thirty years war. In which case you would be wrong.
t. Rebecca West
>>1220507
and so on *sniffs*
>>1224072
That he was the most extreme in this regard with how little he actually did goes a long way to demonstrate how liberal the Habsburgs really were on this front.
Compare and contrast with Bismarck setting up shit like the Prussian Settlement Commission.
>>1220507
In the 19th century (1848) they wanted to unite all regions where Slovenes lived into a Slovene kingdom but within the Austrian Empire and to make Slovenian language equal in public use. That was squashed in the absolutist period following the spring of nations, after that they just basically wanted to be seen as a nation with their own language but always within the empire (until WW1).
In schools the Habsburgs and the Austrian Empire are generally taught in a neutral, sometimes even positive manner (Joseph II reforms), except for perhaps Metternich who is presented as a bad persona.
>>1216804
Austrians literally only had to let Serbs have Bosnia instead of taking it for themselves. That's the only thing even the most ultra-nationalist Serbs in Serbia wanted. But no, "muh imperialism". Well, they got their empire.
>>1220507
>WHAT ABOUT SLOVENES
Slovenes are a myth
>>1216804
Roman empire is the most hateable because it ended the roman republic.
But the most lovable because it's still roman
>>1219623
The Ottoman empire was terrible though. Whilst their initial success against Europe can be attributed to post Arabic golden age technological advancements and religious zeal after killing the Byzantines the whole thing soon turned stale.
The only educated people in the empire where in anetolia and the Greek lands, the rest basically nomads. The majority of the land was shit and they only made improvements to the Turkish lands which also stopped due to massive ecanomic stagnation. The army was terrible and ineffective after the janissaries gained political power to a point where massive portions of the empire fell to revolts.
It wasn't regarded as the sick man of Europe for no reason.
>>1216804
>implying we didn't like it
I remember my grandpa telling me how his father and his great father told him stories about it, they loved it and everyone prospered in it. Gott erhalte Franz der Kaiser is still sung here and there, although I hear it rarely since like 90s, maybe all the people died.
Plus we Croats were same nation as Czech, Slovenians, Slovakians, Ukranians and Austrians. It was like better Yugoslavia. Better because it had no Serbs.
>>1227179
>It was like better Yugoslavia. Better because it had no Serbs
>>1216847
No, the Ottoman state was great. Look at how badly its provinces have handled independence. Only Israel is a stable democracy.
The germans were all finally living in one country.
Undivided in their quest for relevance, they decided to call their country...
The unified german "empire"
>>1227246
>that Serbians are kebab removers meme
>were literally their vassals while we purged their mess
>raped and pillaged in their name
>dumped them as soon as they got too weak
>'guys aren't we the greatest kebab removers??' xd'
>almost anihilated Macedonian people and identity
>managed to even fuck up their relationship with Croatia and Albania who became their mortal enemies instead of allies
>as soon as free of Ottomans, fuck up another shit
shaking my head to be quite honest
When you escape the trap that is the nationalism meme, you realize A-H was the human civilization at its most civilized.
Not perfect - not even close - but as close to the ideal for a stable, content land to live in as man has ever come. The Empire was one of the most tragic casualties of WW1.
Also, as other anons have said, the Ausgleich was a mistake.
>>1227347
>human civilization at its most civilized
This. Literally. Imagine taking a stroll down the street in Vienna, sitting in a cafe and seeing Jews, Muslims, Christians, intellectuals and artists and everyone else getting along. Imagine being either of those and having relatively equal chances of advancing in your rank no matter from which part of empire you were from.
Not to mention music, art, science, government prospered back then almost equally in all parts of the realm.
>>1220455
They were in the Hungarian half of the empire, which had two interests - Magyarization, and protecting the landowning aristocracy. The former was not conductive to making nice to any minorities not willing to receive education almost exclusively in Hungarian, and the latter was not conductive to urban and economic development that more or less defined the 19th century. The end result was much of central Europe having stunted intellectual and political growth.
>>1220242
Yes obviously he did
>>1227259
That just proves how bad it was, and Israel came into being because of Brits.
Hungarians didn't quite want independence.
Both anti-Habsburg Hungarian revolution broke out for similar reasons - to stop Habsburg absolutism, to retain the rights and instutions of the Hungarian state, and to protect noble rights. Plus the 1848 one also aimed to adopt liberal policies. But in neither case did Hungarians aimed to secede initially.
In both ars dethronements were eventuallydeclared and the revolution turnt into wear of liberty, but these were rather necessited by course of war and were not the original goals.
After 1849 Hungarians basically broke into two camps, one that eventually managed to wrestle out the Ausgleich, the other advocating for a federation of Danubian states.
>>1216820
>>1216949
Austriae est imperare orbi universo
>>1217006
>Mongol-spawned Muscovites
hate this meme
>>1220500
>Italians, Serbs, and maybe Ruthenians and Rumanians
Tbh thats already 4 ethnicity
Romanians were significant, they were the majority in Transylvania which was one of the most important part of the Empire
>>1232789
Nice revisionism gypsy scum
>>1216804
Nobody with even a rudimentary historical education or understanding of geopolitics dislikes Austria-Hungary. Its removal from the map was one of the most cataclysmic events of the 20th century, the effects of which were still being felt into the late 90s. There is a reason why the entente governments were so hesitant to dismantle it.
>>1232793
But I'm a magyar, not a gipsy
Or what, do you really think romanians were not a majority? God, look at any kind of ethnic maps between 1800 ans 1910
Transylvania was important, resources, good defense from the East etc.
What kind of revisionism you are talking about?
>>1232796
But I'm a gypsy, not a gipsy
>>1232797
fuck off nigger
>>1232798
Seriously, it WAS important. Transylvania is full of all kind of resources, trees, iron, gold, later oil, its rich as fuck
>expect /his/ to be full of Prussia dicksuckers because of /gsg/
>there's actually tons of KuKaboos
>and it's the most anti-German board on the site
>>1232814
Fuck off nazi
>>1227246
AND YOU DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND
>>1232805
t. Viktor Orban
>>1216804
Top 10 pranks that went too far
would you put this guy on a mineral water, if you hated his country?
>>1232793
Haha spot the butthurt Jobbik bonehead.
>>1220515
To be fair though, economically it wasn't that bad, it could be considered a developed part of Europe still compared to the Balkans or Russian Empire.
>>1217082
kek
Why are japs conquer monkeys?
>>1232686
>Mongol-spawned Muscovites
>meme
>(Austria) - a state whose maintenance, integrity and strengthening is and must be a high and important affair not only of my people, but of the whole of Europe, nay, of humanity and civilisation itself
i.e. strong Austria is the only hope of smaller central European and Balkan nations
>several peoples significantly different in origin, language, history and culture - Slavs, Wallachians, Magyars, and Germans, not to mention the Greeks, Turks and Schkipetars - of whom none is strong enough by itself to put up a successful resistance in the future against the overpowering neighbour in the East
to resist expansionism of Germany and Russia
t. greatest Czech scholar of first half of the 19th century
