Let's say i somehow managed to time travel back to the Garden of Eden in order to stop Eve from eating the fruit. Would God punish me for fucking up his ultimate plan? Or would i be rewarded?
>implying you can override God's will
You travelling back would also be part of God's will.
As we've seen, though, anybody who believes in predestination doesn't seem to have a problem with the fact that God punishes people for things that were predetermined.
Most Christians until recently also believed that Satan was merely a tool of God, inferior to him and within his power, therefore Satan tempting eve to eat the apple was also God's will and done with God's permission.
>>1200252
>Most Christians until recently also believed that Satan was merely a tool of God
See pic
>predestination
Divine providence =! predestination
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism
>>1200252
I understand that way, too. It's rare to see someone else typing it. Satan in Job is actually chatting it up with God and, depending on interpretation, you might put them both in heaven while the conversation is going on. If this is happening in the "time of Job", then there needs some explaining how "Satan was cast out of heaven etc", if he's free to bounce back and forth.
>>1200264
Is that heresy? How would somebody conclude Satan acted of his own free will outside the power of their all knowing and all powerful God? Saying that God is not permitting Satan to do it but Satan is doing it anyway elevates Satan to the level of God. You are believing in two deities, a good and an evil one.
>>1200265
Another note, while we're on the topic, if inspired writers have no problem referring to satan as satan in job, and the book of job is older than the book of isaiah, then why would God inspire writers to infer "Lucifer is satan". If it's satan, they could just have said satan, and not confound the issue with "a man named lucifer from babylon".
Some of this just get conflated by modern evangelicals in order for the whole 19th century rapture to make sense in a bigger picture. I think it's a completely false interpretation.
>>1200271
Wrong again, heretic.
God knew Satan's plan and chose not to intervene, leaving it up to Adam and Eve.
>>1200277
Why is satan in heaven in the book of Job having conversations with God, then.
>>1200277
>Wrong again, heretic.
Heresy to what Christian branch?
>>1200283
The christian-esque evangelicals from the philosophies of the radical reformation, who are in actuality just as christian as arianists, gnostics or mormons.
>>1200277
read the book of Genesis again
count how many times the word "Satan" appears
the very IDEA that the serpent represents Satan is a broad interpretation of the text at best and outright heresy at worst
>>1200298
>>1200297
>the true one
That you're too embarrassed to name in case anybody calls you on your shit?
I get it, it's fun to shitpost in theology threads, but be a little less useless.
>>1200323
Islam, obviously, the one true faith.
>>1200330
lolno
>>1200297
>Wrong again!
Have you ever studied the origin of modern interpretation of "rapture" and "believer's baptism"? Maybe you should, just so you know where the ideas come from, when a person discusses them. Maybe you think 1500 years of christians were all heretics and your big American cult has the true answer. I'm having a hard time with believing that, though.
>>1200243
> Or would i be rewarded?
No, because God's plan for humanity is suffering.
>>1200337
Crusaders weren't, by and large, a pious bunch. They were criminals, opportunists, and in one major event, literally children.
>>1200348
Not bait at all.
>>1200350
>>1200337
But the Christians fought poorly and lost badly during the Crusades.
Satan is traditionally identified as the serpent who tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit, as he was in Judaism.[30] Thus Satan has often been depicted as a serpent. Christian agreement with this can be found in the works of Justin Martyr, in Chapters 45 and 79 of Dialogue with Trypho, where Justin identifies Satan and the serpent.[31] Other early church fathers to mention this identification include Theophilus and Tertullian.[32]
From the fourth century, Lucifer is sometimes used in Christian theology to refer to Satan, as a result of identifying the fallen "son of the dawn" of Isaiah 14:12 with the "accuser" of other passages in the Old Testament.[citation needed]
For most Christians, Satan is believed to be an angel who rebelled against God. In the New Testament he is called "the ruler of the demons" (Matthew 12:24), "the ruler of the world", and "the god of this world" (2 Cor. 4:4). The Book of Revelation describes how Satan was cast out of Heaven, having "great anger" and waging war against "those who obey God's commandments". Ultimately, Satan will be thrown into the lake of fire.[33]
The early Christian church encountered opposition from pagans such as Celsus, who claimed that "it is blasphemy...to say that the greatest God...has an adversary who constrains his capacity to do good" and said that Christians "impiously divide the kingdom of God, creating a rebellion in it, as if there were opposing factions within the divine, including one that is hostile to God".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satan#Christianity
>>1200365
https://www.youtube.com/user/RealCrusadeHistory
Educate thyself, heathen
My dad says you should go back and try but whatever His plan is will happen anyway.
>>1200374
How old are you?
>>1200382
53, I still live at home though.
>>1200389
how old is your dad
