>modern
define

>to reach the levels
explain

>Roman Empire at its height
give examples

Are you implying the Roman Empire isn't Western society?

Depends for what. Early Middle Ages for roads, late Middle Ages for bridges, Enlightenment Era for running water.

It's also need related. Before Enlightenment Western cities weren't very large (usually smaller than Roman cities), and running water wasn't a necessity.

>>1190692
It's not.

>>1190716
Bet Ancient Greece isn't Western either

>some wealthy Romans shit over running water
>most peasants live in their own filth
>WRE collapses
>some wealthy monks shit over running water a decade after the Legions leave
>most peasants still live in their own filth
(Y)

Most of the "knowledge" of the WRE was preserved in the Church. By 1000AD Western Civilisation had revived Latin and Rome, and by 1200AD it had surpassed Rome. Besides, Roman culture is not European. The Gothic and Middle Ages culture is European culture. There were immense leaps in our technical and academic knowledge between 1000-1100AD. The fact that so many buy into the lie that "nothing happened until the Renaissance" demonstrates their ignorance. The Renaissance was in many ways a leap backwards, and it later took those not trapped in stagnant Greek thinking to create "progress". Note that the greatest Poet: Dante, was born in 1265.

The "Dark Ages" (meme) Didn't exist you stupid atheist. Life was good in those times and many advances in science were made, writing continued by the monks and the greater freedom allowed science to flourish. Take your meme larping elsewhere

>>1191174
>the greatest poet
>Dante

The roads were still there. If you mean sanitation, then the late 1800's because Rome was ridiculously hydrated by aquifers and cholera wasn't recognized until 1854.

Rome was ridiculously well hydrated for a long period of time. They brought water in from far away because the ground water tasted awful and the Tiber was dirty because of Rome itself. By dumb coincidence water channels they built to drain the mashes Rome was built upon served to get rid of the excess water.

The roads were still there. If you mean sanitation, then the late 1800's because Rome was ridiculously hydrated by aquifers and cholera wasn't recognized until 1854.

Rome was ridiculously well hydrated for a long period of time. They brought water in from far away because the ground water tasted awful and the Tiber was dirty because of Rome itself. By dumb coincidence water channels they built to drain the marshes Rome was built upon served to get rid of the excess water.

>>1191174
>Running water
>Sewer systems (underground)
>Flushing toilets
>Aqueducts
>Cisterns
>Concrete
>Large, professional armies
Not to mention secular non fiction writings of all kinds which either declined greatly in volume or disappeared entirely (such as works of geography) for a long long time.

Please name examples of engineering or non fiction literature equivalent to what I described that existed by 1200 outside of Italy in western Europe.

I'm not denegrating early and high mediaeval accomplishments (especially in cathedral and some elements of warfare tactics and technology) but to say that the Roman civilisation had been surpassed by 1200 sounds completely rediculous. For most of Europe, the retreat and destruction of the Roman empire meant a decrease in public infrastructure projects. In England, for example, no roads of equivalent construction were built in this time and the only large engineering projects made of stone were fortifications or ecclesiastical buildings. Everything else was wood, straw and wattle and daub (early mediaeval period). Books of history were almost always from a religious perspective (such as the venerable Bede) and geography, whist maps were produced (often by Islamic scholars or simple t and o symbolic maps, never yielded actual books like had been written in antiquity.

>>1191180
I seriously hope you were not implying that he isnt

>>1191758
I should note that rates of urbanisation declined greatly after the fall of the Roman empire and didn't recover until long after 1200. Cities of comparable size to Rome didn't reappear until the 18th century. Also I should say I'm talking about western Europe. Works of geography and secular history were still produced by Arab and Eastern Roman sources.

>>1190692
>Are you implying the Roman Empire isn't Western society?

It isn't.

>>1191758

While Le Morte De Arthur dates to the 1400's in it's oldest complete version, the stories date back to far before.

Beowulf, the Song of Roland, Canterbury Tales, etc.

>>1192611
>Not to mention secular non-fiction writing of all kinds which either declined greatly in volume or disappeared entirely.
>Non-fiction

I never said that great fiction hadn't been produced by 1200. Also I'm fairly sure the Canterbury Tales was 1383~

>>1190692
No.

>>1191758
I also want to see this answered.

>>1191148
It isn't.

>>1192611
The use of
>etc
On /his/ bothers me.

It's gotten really popular but whatever point that was made before it would have always sounded stronger had they not followed it up with "etc" and just let the listing stand on its own. But instead "etc" always comes off as a non-ironic version of
> thing 1, thing 2, errr the list just goes on.

>>1191178

this

>>1193489
I hope so too. Because I've noticed that the hip new meme is to argue so strongly against the "let christian dark ages" meme that you end up arguing for a new claim. That is: the middle ages were a period of great technological, philosophical and scientific advancement and "the Renaissance" either didn't really happen or it was a regression.

Whilst I appreciate that we need to debunk the retarded "dark age of technology" stuff that floats around the minds of plebs, we shouldn't go full contraction and end up arguing for an equally spurious claim.

I wonder how many people watch HBO's Rome and see the scene in which Pullo and Octavius kill the guy who cucked Verinus in the Sewers and realize, woah Rome had fucking sewers!