Ottoman Empire claimed 'Kaysei Rum' themselves after they had seized Constantinople. Is this a proof for legitimacy that they are descendant of the Roman Empire? What do you think about it? If not, Which country is the main line of descendant of the Roman Empire?
>>1175941
>Was the Ottoman Empire the main line of descendant of the Roman Empire?
>>1175941
They inhabited the roman empire and used its infrastructure
Yes
>>1175941
>Kaysei Rum
>not owned Rome
well meme
>>1175941
>turks when will they ever learn
no, just no. turks are an accident.
We really need to find a way to coordinate all these humor threads into one.
>>1175941
>Which country is the main line of descendant from the Roman Empire?
It's a massive clusterfuck, because any country that
A. had an empire at one point and
B. was once part of the Roman Empire
can claim succession. Even fucking Russia says they're Roman for some stupid reason.
If I had to be honest, the modern day equivalent of the Roman Republic/Empire would probably have to be the United States.
>Rome
>split in two
>west Rome falls
>east Rome is now officially Rome
>east Rome gets raped by hairy Turks
>orthodox church moves to Russia
>Russia is not officially Rome
>Russia gets raped by Bolshevik Jews
>...
where is Rome now?
>>1176130
*now officially Rome
>>1176119
>Even fucking Russia says they're Roman for some stupid reason.
They probably have the most plausible reason, Ivan III of Russia who married Sophia Paleologue. Sophia was a niece of Constantine XI, the last Byzantine emperor. By the rules and laws of inheritance followed by most European monarchies of the time, Ivan could claim that he and his offspring were heirs of the fallen Empire.
>>1175941
Italy is the closest descendant to Rome. You're stupid if you think otherwise.
>>1176155
disprove it then
they are the center of the orthodox church
>>1176187
>center of the orthodox church
You realize the orthodox churches are not the same as the catholic church, right? If anything, the center is still Istanbul and the Constantinople patriarch.
Alexander's empire -> Sassanid Empire -> Abbasid Caliphate -> Ottoman Empire
I had a turk say this to me, I wanted to punch him
I remember reading that the Spanish throne had a claim due to being sold the title a while back. Is this still, or was it ever, true?
>>1176211
I vaguely remember reading about this while reading about spanish history.
>>1176119
>If I had to be honest, the modern day equivalent of the Roman Republic/Empire would probably have to be the United States.
That's even more retarded than the Russian claim.
>>1176197
>Catholic Church
>Church of the Roman Empire
There is no Third Rome.
Wouldn't Bongland be the next Roman Empire on the count that Prince Philip's family were the kings of Greece (of which the original king of Greece was descended from old Byzantine dynasties), and he's also descended from a Russian princess, thus meaning whenever the Queen dies the United Caliphate will be Rome?
>>1176211
Andreas Palaiologos sold his title and claims to France, then later sold them again, despite not actually having them, to Ferdinand, because Greeks, am I right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Palaiologos
>>1176252
Is it not?
>>1175941
Even >H>R>E actually controlled Rome for a time. Roachoman empire never did, therefore it's not Roman. Simple.
America :^)
>>1175941
>Is this a proof for legitimacy
lmao
>>1175941
Also
>not Christian
>not European
>no Roman Law
>no Latin language
etc. etc.
>>1176252
The Roman Catholic Church is the only real successor to the Roman Empire.
>>1176248
They lack a legitimate descent but the parallels are pretty interesting. As far as militarist hegemonic republics go they've got a lot in common.
>>1176130
Finland :DDD
No seriously, after Russia got raped by communists the last region from the formerly Russian empire was Finland.
>>1176577
WUZ
>>1176775
ROMANS
>>1176574
How'd you figure that out? Orthodoxy is the main line of Christianity by virtue of it's creation by the Ecumenical Councils. Rome was just uppity about being a former capital, and then decided that they'd make their own church, with Charlemagne, and Hookers.
>>1175941
That map is inaccurate as fuck. The Roman Empire did not hold Mesopotamia almost as far as the Gulf, did not extend anywhere near that far south into Morocco and they did not hold the areas either side of Dacia.
>>1175941
Finland is the one true legitimate descendant of the Roman Empire.
You see, the title of Roman Emperor, after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, fell solely on the Byzantine emperors. (as we all know, the >Emperor of the HRE wasn't really an emperor, and certainly not a Roman one)
The last Byzantine Emperor was Constantine XI. He famously died in a heroic charge in which he threw off his imperial regalia and joined his men in battle - but after his death and the fall of Constantinople, his title would pass to his younger brother, Thomas Palaialogos.
Now, Thomas had four children who could inherit the title of Roman Emperor:
- Helena, who denounced all claims when she became a nun.
- Andreas, who was a beggar, liar, and overall degenerate, obviously unworthy to inherit the title.
- Manuel, a traitor who begged Sultan Mehmet for mercy and whose heir converted to Islam.
- Zoe, aka Sophia Palaialogina, the only one fit to inherit the title.
Zoe-Sophia married the ruler of Muscovy, and was the grandmother of Ivan the Terrible, Tsar of All Russias, and Roman Emperor.
Of course, the Russian Empire did not last forever. It fell during the revolution, deposed by communism.
However, communism did not reach all of the imperial territories, oh no. Finland was a territory of the Russian Empire - and it never fell to communists. Its claim to the title of Roman Emperor was uninterrupted and unspoiled by the red taint.
Hence, Finland is the one, true legitimate heir to the Roman Empire.
It's quite poetic, really, considering the Proto-Finnic Empire was the ultimate predecessor of Rome.
>>1177995
I was blind but now I see.
>>1176541
>>1175941
pretty much every imperialistic strongman who conquered anything has tried to claim the legacy of rome in some capacity
they're all totally full of shit, especially the ottomans who weren't even christian
it's just a hollow meme for self aggrandizing conquerors
>>1176204
>Alexander's empire
you mean the vast swath of land he dragged an army through that collapsed immediately when he died?
>>1178315
He's missing the point that the Ottomans were not part of the Roman Empire to begin with, they were outside invaders. Conquering an empire doesn't make you that empire.
The Byzantines descended from a peaceful division of the empire, and they were all citizens of Rome when that division happened. But when the Turks rolled in, they came from outside of Rome and took over. In other words they aren't Roman, they don't descend from Romans, so their empire, while in name and territory fits the mold of "Rome", isn't Roman.
As a parallel, consider the Umayyad conquest of Hispania. Yeah, the Umayyads took over basically all of Hispania. But when they did that, they didn't suddenly declare themselves "The Hispanics". They didn't title their rulers as "Emperor of Hispania". Because they weren't fucking bodysnatchers, they were invading conquerors. The turks are the outlier here, they just decided "WE ROMANS NOW" and started calling themselves that, while the rest of the world shook their head and chuckled. In fact, after the death of the Sultan who called himself "Kaiser-i-Rum", the Sultans stopped using the title because they realized how stupid it was. It was literally just one dude who was a Romaboo, that's all. Shit, type "Kayser-i-Rûm" into Wikipedia and see where the page redirects.
On top of that, Mehmed had no right to the title anyway. The whole idea that "whoever owns the capital of Rome is the emperor of Rome!" is bullshit in this context. Of course people have taken Rome and subsequently the empire, Julius Caesar for example. But Julius Caesar was also a fucking Roman citizen. Mehmed is a foreign conqueror. Was Odoacer also a Roman Emperor because he took over Rome? When the Nazi army marched into Rome to defend it from the allies, was Adolf Hitler crowned Imperator Augustus? If we acknowledged everyone who titled themselves "Roman Emperor" as the legitimate successor of Rome, the empire would probably still fucking exist today, in multiple places.
>>1175941
Somalia
>>1178816
I'm a turkish Byzantinist. Ottoman Empire did adopted a lot of Byzantine traditions and culture and formed them to their liking (Court music is my favorite). There are historians who trackback the under development of Ottoman Empire to the Byzantine institutions had adopted when instead they should have discarded them in first place.
But to call Ottoman Empire Roman Empire is absurd. By 1453 Turks were heavily influenced by eastern, particularly iranian tradition. Nevermind the fact that even if they were only influenced by Byzantine tradition we still shouldn't call them as such (Just as we don't call Gothic Kingdom as Continuation of Western Empire)
>>1176751
>No seriously
Kill yourself
Russia was never the Roman Empire
>>1177219
Nope
>>1178816
>Conquering an empire doesn't make you that empire.
Worked for the chinks.
>>1177219
>>I-I was just pretending to be retarded: the post
>>1176255
This
People will argue who the "third Rome" is but the Roman Empire ended in 1453(possibly 1461 if you count Trebizond)
>>1177240
They held all those areas for a short period of time. The map shows the greatest extent of the empire, those borders only lasted for a few years so you probably haven't seen much of it
>>1178914
10/10
>>1178914
>Look at me.
>I'm the Chinese Empire now.
>>1175941
kek no
>>1177240
muh trajan, mufugga
>>1176147
then I'm the stupidest one here
>>1177995
Can we end this meme please?
>>1181321
>Can we end this meme please?
We tried, they keep coming like roaches.
- Swede
>>1175941
No
fuck off Mehmet
>>1175941
Yes. People are just butthurt the Ottomans were mudslimes.
>>1175941
If someone kills you, cuts off your face, then wears it as a mask, does that make them you?
